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Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

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Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  Annabel on Sat 25 Aug - 18:57

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120824/METRO01/208240420#ixzz24a3uvyi9




The Detroit News

August 24, 2012

Canine expert can testify on cadaver scent in Bianca Jones case, judge rules

By Christine Ferretti

Detroit ó A canine expert whose dog allegedly detected a cadaver scent in the home of a missing toddler will be allowed to testify at the murder trial of the girl's father, a judge ruled Friday.

Wayne County Circuit Judge Vonda R. Evans made the ruling after attorneys for D'Andre Lane spent more than two hours trying to discredit the relatively new scientific method. Lane is charged with first-degree murder and child abuse in the death of his 2-year-old daughter, Bianca Jones

"I believe the evidence offered is sufficient to go forward. The people should be allowed to demonstrate to a jury that your client was implicated in this particular murder," Evans told the defense. "I think your argument is to weight as opposed to admissibility."

The court Friday also denied a defense motion to halt proceedings in the case while the state Court of Appeals evaluates efforts by Lane's attorneys to have the case tossed out. The attorneys said they also plan to appeal Friday's ruling.

Two forensic canine experts testified Friday before Evans ruled to admit at trial the potential evidence, which is key for prosecutors in the case against Lane.

Danian Woodson, an attorney for Lane, tried to argue against the cadaver dog evidence. But Evans cut her off and denied the motion.

After the hearing, Woodson said the alleged evidence is "not admissible, not relevant, highly prejudicial and should be excluded."

Lane has claimed Bianca was in the back seat of his 2004 Mercury Grand Marquis on the morning of Dec. 2 when he was approached by armed carjackers near Brush Street and Grand River.

The vehicle was found shortly after, but the child was not inside. Her body has not been found.

Forensic canine expert Martin Grime testified Friday and at Lane's prior preliminary examination that he brought in his victim recovery dog, Morse, two days after the girl went missing. He said the dog detected a cadaver scent inside Lane's car, on the child's blanket and car seat, and in the girl's bedroom and Lane's home.

Grime said the dogs detect only the generic scent of human decomposition. The dogs, he said, cannot determine identity, age, race, gender or the rate of decomposition.

Grime testified in court Friday that Morse has never had a false positive response, and that testing done just prior and after the dog worked in the Jones case was successful.

"I believe that the testimony, his conclusion is based on principles and methods that have been in place for several years," Evans said of Grime.

Also Friday, Rex A. Stockham, a special agent for the FBI who oversees its forensic canine program, said the agency has been studying the science for about a decade.

The FBI began testing contract and volunteer teams for the human scent detection program in 2008, Stockham said. The agency has three full-time dogs working in the country.

The dogs are tested annually to ensure they meet best practices standards. Morse has only been tested one time, Stockham said.

Prosecutors allege Lane beat the toddler to death with an 18-inch stick with a towel wrapped in duct tape at the end over a potty training incident.

Lane's attorney, Terry Johnson, contends Lane did "spank" the child with the stick, but that there was no evidence of child abuse or murder since the girl's whereabouts is unknown.

Lane told Detroit Police he left his home around 7:45 a.m. Dec. 2. He dropped his nephew and 8-year-old daughter off before visiting a gas station, Wayne County Community College in Detroit and, with a friend, near the Greyhound bus station on Howard Street. The carjacking, Lane claimed, occurred just afterward, with only him and Bianca in the vehicle.

FBI agent Christopher Hess testified at Lane's preliminary examination that the defendant was unable to explain where he was for a 45-minute window around the time his daughter disappeared.

Lane's girlfriend, Anjali Lyons, has testified she awoke Dec. 2 to Bianca's screams as Lane used the stick to beat the toddler for urinating in bed. Later the same morning, Lane carried a silent Bianca to his car. She was covered with an animal print blanket.

Lane's trial is slated for Sept. 18.



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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 25 Aug - 20:50

Thanks Annabel. That could get some folks in the UK rather worried.

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  Claudia79 on Sat 25 Aug - 21:20

Oh dear!

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  dazedandconfused on Sat 25 Aug - 22:24

Poor little Bianca. I can't comprehend the evilness of some. Only hope is that they will get their just desserts somewhere along the line.

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  AnnaEsse on Sat 25 Aug - 22:38

A landmark case, I think. No body and the alerts by the cadaver dogs being allowed into evidence.

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  HiDeHo on Sun 26 Aug - 5:29

Can anyone suggest any video links on this?

I would love to do a video.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120418/NEWS02/204180363/Bianca-Jones-At-hearing-on-murder-abuse-charges-tot-s-sister-says-dad-hit-her
Bianca Jones: At hearing on murder, abuse charges, tot's sister says dad hit her

By Melanie D. Scott

Detroit Free Press Staff Writer

Wayne County

The 8-year-old sister of Bianca Jones testified Tuesday that her father, D'Andre Lane, hit her after she wet the bed and then stuffed the panties she had on into her mouth as part of her punishment.

"It was the time I thought I was on the toilet, but I was in the bed," the 8-year-old said about the incident. "He was holding them (the panties) in my face, then put them underneath my tongue and it hurt."

The testimony came after the girl told the court about what she said happened at Lane's house the morning of Dec. 2, the day 2-year-old Bianca disappeared.

"I didn't see Bebe," the girl said, referring to Bianca. The girl said she put on her school clothes, washed her face and waited in the living room for Lane.

As the girl got into the car, she said, Lane picked up the car seat carrying Bianca, but "the cover (her blanket) was over her."

The girl, who briefly waved to her father in court, testified that Bianca never tried to remove the cover from her face and that she was not making a sound. When Bianca slept, the girl said, "she usually snores."

Lane, 32, who was charged last month with first-degree felony murder and first-degree child abuse in connection with Bianca's disappearance, was in 36th District Court in Detroit for a preliminary examination Tuesday before Judge Ruth Carter. He faces life in prison without parole if convicted of the murder charge.

Although prosecutors contend Bianca was subjected to abuse from her father on the day she disappeared, Lane repeatedly has denied involvement in the toddler's disappearance.

Lane told police two men carjacked him at gunpoint and took off in his 2002 Mercury Grand Marquis with Bianca strapped in her car seat in the back on the morning of Dec. 2. Police found Lane's car running several blocks away from what he said was the carjacking site, but Bianca was not in the car. Prosecutors have presumed that she is dead.

Martin Grime, a forensic canine expert, testified that he traveled from England and arrived Dec. 4 in Detroit with two English springer spaniels: Morse, who specializes in victim recovery, and Keela, who detects human blood.

Grime said Morse detected a human decomposition odor in a room where Bianca slept at Lane's house as well as on her blanket and car seat found in Lane's car.

"The dog's final response is vocal," Grime said. "He barks, and as the dog searches, their behavior changes and they become more intense."

Morse searched inside and outside Lane's house in the 19300 block of Mitchell on Detroit's east side, Grime said. "There was an immediate change of behavior."

Grime said Morse was able to pick out Lane's car, which was parked among 31 others in a lot. The other cars in the lot did not get a response from the dog.

Grime said his dogs did not detect a decomposition odor on the clothing Lane was wearing the day he was taken into custody, which was the same day Bianca disappeared. He also said that a body starts decomposing immediately after breathing stops.






http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic457.html

Martin Grimes Rogatory Statement

Martin Grimes
CARTAS ROGATORIAS 3 Pages 21 to 25

Dated May 14 2008

I am a retired police offer, previously at the service of the South Yorkshire police. Between August 1-8, 2007, and while working for the South Yorkshire police, I collaborated with the Judicial Police, Portugal, as regards their Operations Task Force.
On the 17th of August 2007, I completed a report for the Head of Investigations of the Judicial Police, which was submitted by the Leicestershire Police. This report is exhibited as MG/1 and identified by the label bearing my signature. The Judicial Police is in possession of the originals of the search reports and the videos showing all searches performed and the reaction of the dogs. In addition to the report, Sam Harkeness of the Progresso Nacional Police Agency sent me by email several written questions sent by the Judicial Police together with a request for a written deposition. This deposition was submitted without me having seen or having knowledge of the final report from the forensic agency responsible for analyzing the evidence submitted in this case.

Questions and Answers:

Could you explain the methodology regarding the performance of the dogs bearing in mind the searches that were performed?
Please refer to my original report included in the summary (MG/1).

Could you provide a detailed summary of the orientation capacity of the dogs, as well as an interpretation of the indications provided by them in the specific cases?
Please refer to my original report included in the summary (MG/1).
The interpretation of any alert is given when the dogs recognize a specific odour as a result of a response to the behaviour for which they were trained. This response must then be submitted to a forensic examination in order to draw conclusions.

In order to establish the accuracy of the dogs' performance with respect to the alerts given when recognizing blood and a body, to what extent are these indications viable in this particular case?
The dogs' alerts are to be considered as an area of interest or possible testing. When specific and reliable this can only be measured for confirmation. In this case in particular, where the dogs alerted there was confirmation by positive results from the forensic examinations. It is the investigators' responsibility to apply the results of the forensic analysis to the suspects, witnesses and crime scenes.

Based upon the dogs' behaviour, is it possible to distinguish between a strong signal and a weak signal?
The dogs' passive CSI alert provides an indication as per their training and does not vary. They only give an alert when they are 'positive' that the target of the odour is present and immediately accessible. If they had any doubts they would not give an alert. EVRD gives an alert by means of a vocal bark. The variations in the vocal alert can be explained by many reasons such as 'thirst' or 'lack of air due to effort'. Every alert can be subject to interpretation, it has to be confirmed. The signals of an alert are only just that. Once the alert has been given by the dog, it is up to the investigator/forensic scientist to locate, identify and scientifically provide the evidence of DNA, etc.

Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog?
The dogs were not taught any 'tricks'. EVRD 'signalled' the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.

With respect to the cadaver odour on Kate's clothes, could it be undoubtedly affirmed that those clothes had been in contact with a cadaver?
OR
Could the alert have been given because the clothes had been in contact with other items of clothing, surfaces or objects that could previously have touched a cadaver, thereby allowing the odour to be transferred?
There is always a possibility of contamination of odours by transferral. EVRD does not make a distinction; he responds with a certain behaviour for which he was trained when he recognizes an odour. He does not identify the reasons for the presence of the odour nor does he identify suspects. Forensic confirmation and specialized investigation methods will determine the reasons and the suspicions. In order to undoubtedly affirm there must be a confirmation of the alert signals made by the dog.

The EVRD dog also alerts to blood from a live human being or only from a cadaver?
The EVRD dog is trained using whole and disintegrated material, blood, bone tissue, teeth, etc. and decomposed cross-contaminants. The dog will recognize all or parts of a human cadaver. He is not trained for 'live' human odours; no trained dog will recognize the smell of 'fresh blood'. They find, however, and give the alert for dried blood from a live human being.

Taking into account the signals of CSI, could the dog alert to other biological fluids?
The dog that alerts to human blood is trained exclusively for this purpose, and includes its components, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets. Given the nature of the training, the dog will not alert to urine, saliva, semen sweat, nasal secretion, vaginal secretion or human skin unless these are mixed with blood. The components of blood are approximately:
Red cells 40-50%
Plasma 55% (of which 95% is water)
White cells
Platelets
DNA can only be removed from white cells.
This would suggest that, of the samples signalled by the dog looking for human blood, approximately 5% are available for DNA tests.

Is there any chance, however remote, of any confusion?
The dogs do not get confused. They transmit a behavioural response inspired by the recognition of the odour for which they were trained.

How long does a cadaver have to be in contact with a surface or an object for the odour to be detected?
Cross-contamination is immediate.

How long can a trace of blood remain at a scene and be detected by the CSI dog?
During both training and operations, the CSI dog correctly located and signalled the presence of blood from 1960. This is not at all surprising. If enough blood is present so that the dog can recognize its odor, he will locate it and alert to its presence. There is no time restriction as regards the recognition of the odour by the dog. Blood, however, is subject to deterioration such as time and other natural processes such as dilution due to rain and other reactive chemical agents.

Can the dog mix up traces of human odours with others that are non-human?
I cannot comment on what the dogs think. However, from a forensic point of view and from confirmations of scientific testimonies, the dogs appear to be extremely exact. But, forensic confirmation is required in all cases so as to be included as proof. The CSI dog is trained using only human blood. And using a wide spectrum of donors to ensure that the dog does not individualize them.
EVRD used to be trained using swine (pigs) as their odour is the closest to that of humans. But most of the time, however, the dog was trained using the odour of a human cadaver. Operationally, the dog has ignored large amounts of animal remains/bones when locating human decomposition.

Based upon your experience with the dogs, can you specify whether the positive signals given by them have always matched the scientific results?
I cannot. In this case, for example, not all the alert signals have been investigated by the appropriate agencies in order to provide forensic comparations, in spite of indications to the contrary. It also should be taken into account that the procedures for forensic testing are still less discriminating than the system of dogs' smell.
During training, the dogs are barely rewarded for positive alert signals regarding targets of known substances.

At any time, did Gerald McCann address, either in Portugal or the United Kingdom, the performance of the dogs in this case?
I never met nor spoken to Gerald McCann. However I do know that he addressed my head supervisor at the time, the South Yorkshire Head of Police, or Mr. Meredith Hughes.

This deposition was made by me and is true according to my understanding.

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  kitti on Sun 26 Aug - 8:43

What a damn cheek Gerry McCann has got....does he think he can threaten or co-erce everybody he meets.


Maybe he can but he cant change the dogs opinions.....they smelt a cadaver and that's that.....swivel on that Gerry

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  malena stool on Sun 26 Aug - 8:53

kitti wrote:What a damn cheek Gerry McCann has got....does he think he can threaten or co-erce everybody he meets.


Maybe he can but he cant change the dogs opinions.....they smelt a cadaver and that's that.....swivel on that Gerry
He is being or has been allowed to 'get away' with his off the cuff put downs because no one is allowed to challenge his statements on air kitti, and the press neither can or will print the real facts. Remove his support and cover from confrontation and he would fold like the narcissistic bully he is!

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  Not Born Yesterday on Sun 26 Aug - 9:56

HiDeHo, there are various clips on YouTube about this case.

This one talks about the evidence of the dogs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJYAFCkOnjM&feature=fvwrel

This one is just for information - oh dear, T-shirts again! I wonder where that idea came from......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6wFMsIZTQM&feature=relmfu

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  kitti on Sun 26 Aug - 11:37

The sister is testifying too I think.


She said that the other 'sister' was put in the chair in the car next to her and was covered in a blanket and didn't move.



Can you imagine how she will feel when she is older and finds out she was sitting next to her dead sister and how can a father do that to her or her dead sister..

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  HiDeHo on Mon 27 Aug - 0:58

I am working on a basic video to highlight the similarities of the dogs findings in both cases but I could use some help...

I normally work from retained information and search for what I need, so trying to do a video without full knowledge is very difficult.

So far I need to confirm...

All similarities (including the mother who wanted to continue searching...)

The report says there were no forensics found. Is that still the case?

When was he arrested and on what grounds?

When will the trial be?

I'm sorry, I am sure its easy to find the info but I tend to get caught up in too much research about things I don't know and I may never get the video complete so any help would be much appreciated.


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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 27 Aug - 7:54

HiDeHo wrote:I am working on a basic video to highlight the similarities of the dogs findings in both cases but I could use some help...

I normally work from retained information and search for what I need, so trying to do a video without full knowledge is very difficult.

So far I need to confirm...

All similarities (including the mother who wanted to continue searching...)

The report says there were no forensics found. Is that still the case?

When was he arrested and on what grounds?

When will the trial be?

I'm sorry, I am sure its easy to find the info but I tend to get caught up in too much research about things I don't know and I may never get the video complete so any help would be much appreciated.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2115284/DAndre-Lane-charged-murder-toddler-daughter-Bianca-Jones-months-reporting-kidnapped-alleged-carjacking.html

PUBLISHED: 10:19, 15 March 2012 | UPDATED: 11:24, 15 March 2012

A Detroit father who told police his two-year-old daughter was abducted during a carjacking was charged with her murder yesterday, more than three months after the child disappeared.
D'Andre Lane had begged the public to help find his daughter, Bianca Jones - a plea that inspired dozens of volunteers to comb some of the city's roughest neighbourhoods in early December.
He denies wrongdoing, insisting that he was carjacked and that thieves drove off with the girl strapped in her car seat.
But Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy said Lane's story is 'totally inconsistent with the facts'.
She said yesterday: 'An entire region worried, waited and willed Bianca's safe return. The facts in this case will show that she is never coming home. ... Fathers killing daughters is rare. It is hard to protect loved ones when the murderer is family.'
Lane, 32, has been charged with first-degree child abuse and murder during a felony, which carries a mandatory punishment of life in prison.
Ms Worthy said there was nothing unusual about the time it took ó three months ó to act on the warrant requested by police.

She acknowledged that the case depends on circumstantial evidence, especially as the little girl's body has not been found. However, she said this can be 'just as good as direct evidence, some would argue even better'.
The prosecutor said Bianca Jones was abused on the day of her disappearance, but declined to elaborate.
Police Chief Ralph Godbee said investigators will follow up on any tip in their efforts to find Bianca's remains.
Lane's car was found, without his daughter, less than an hour after he reported a carjacking on December 2 2011.


Terry Johnson, Lane's lawyer, says he is standing by his version of what happened that day and will 'absolutely' fight the charges against him.
'I'm very surprised charges have been brought, especially charges of this magnitude,' Mr Johnson said, adding that he is eager to see what 'smoking gun' evidence has been collected by the police.
Meanwhile, the girl's mother, Banika Jones, has pleaded with the public to keep looking for her daughter.
'I have to believe that Bianca is alive until I have something that shows me different. And, as of this time, there is no proof that my daughter is not alive,' Ms Jones told Detroit TV station WDIV.

Lane is being held in the Oakland County Jail on an unrelated matter. In the days after Bianca's disappearance, he often spoke to reporters, acknowledging he was under scrutiny by police but saying that he was more concerned with finding Bianca.
'Please, please don't stop looking,' he said on December 8.




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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 27 Aug - 7:59

DíAndre Lane, the father of missing two year old Bianca Jones, was arrested Monday for a personal protection order violation. Local4 is reporting that there is a felony hold for homicide against him through the Wayne County Prosecutorís Office.

You will recall Bianca Jones went missing December 2, when he claimed he was carjacked with the girl in the back seat. The car was later recovered, but the toddler was missing.
I watched DíAndre Lane during an appearance on HLN Nancy Grace Show and he was waffling when he was asked basic questions by the Grace. I didnít believe he was telling the truth about what really happened to his daughter.

March 14, 2012 By Janet Shan

http://hinterlandgazette.com/2012/03/father-missing-detroit-toddler-bianca-jones-dandre-lane-jailed-homicide-charge-pending.html

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  Keela on Mon 27 Aug - 12:59

Grime testified in court Friday that Morse has never had a false positive response,


Another one!! Oh dear Gerry, what was that you were saying about the dogs being notorious for getting it wrong!!????

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 27 Aug - 13:02

Keela wrote:Grime testified in court Friday that Morse has never had a false positive response,


Another one!! Oh dear Gerry, what was that you were saying about the dogs being notorious for getting it wrong!!????

I have one word for Gerry.

Zapata!

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  Keela on Mon 27 Aug - 13:23

AnnaEsse wrote:
Keela wrote:Grime testified in court Friday that Morse has never had a false positive response,


Another one!! Oh dear Gerry, what was that you were saying about the dogs being notorious for getting it wrong!!????

I have one word for Gerry.

Zapata!


I have another - Shit!!!!!

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 27 Aug - 13:26

Keela wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
Keela wrote:Grime testified in court Friday that Morse has never had a false positive response,


Another one!! Oh dear Gerry, what was that you were saying about the dogs being notorious for getting it wrong!!????

I have one word for Gerry.

Zapata!


I have another - Shit!!!!!


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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  Guest on Mon 27 Aug - 13:26

Keela wrote:Grime testified in court Friday that Morse has never had a false positive response,


Another one!! Oh dear Gerry, what was that you were saying about the dogs being notorious for getting it wrong!!????

Gerald did say "Ask the Dogs" >>>> Perhaps, having done so, he misunderstood owing to lack of fluency in Canine-speak (Either that, or his Babelfish Battery was flat).

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  HiDeHo on Mon 27 Aug - 14:16

Thank you so...so much for the info. Saves me hours of research, especially as I pan on only doing a 'McMINUTE

I am going to try really hard to give the full impact of the similarities and...the ultimate difference.

Fingers crossed that it will 'work'...

Regardless, at least the info will be 'out there'

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  HiDeHo on Mon 27 Aug - 14:36

Can I ask...?

Did/does the mother 'know' anything of what may have happened or is she thought to be totally 'innocent'?

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  kitti on Mon 27 Aug - 16:04

I don't know if the mother knows if he was abusive to the children....he had two at the time and he abused the older one so how come the other mother let's him have the oldest child after all, she was eight and must off told her mother what her father was like.

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  AnnaEsse on Mon 27 Aug - 16:10

HiDeHo wrote:Can I ask...?

Did/does the mother 'know' anything of what may have happened or is she thought to be totally 'innocent'?

Don't know, HiDeHo, but will post if I find out.

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  kitti on Mon 27 Aug - 16:11

The mother off the missing child has said he has been nothing but a loving father to his daughter yet he hit her and the other girl with a stick as the 8 yr old has says.....he has 3 other children I think.

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  HiDeHo on Mon 27 Aug - 16:12

Thanks...

Just been through the half hour Nancy Grace show and from what I can make out, she didn't know anything initially, but then refused to tell Nancy what she spoke to him about just after...

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

Post  cherry1 on Mon 27 Aug - 20:33

Gerry and others who have rubbished Grimes and the dogs must be
barking mad at this!

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Re: Martin Grimes will testify on found cadaver scent - no body found

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