The News of the World, BBC report on an ex-leader of the Scottish Socialist Party and accusations of perjury, swinging and suppressing documents to save his skin.

Scottish Socialist Party members talked about changing minutes in which Tommy Sheridan allegedly admitted attending a swingers club, a court has heard.

Barbara Scott told the High Court in Glasgow that party members did not want to hand the document to police as it would have "dropped Tommy in it".

Mr Sheridan and his wife Gail, both 46, are on trial accused of perjury.

They are accused of lying to help him successfully sue the News of the World in 2006. They deny the charges.

Mr Sheridan, who resigned as leader of the Scottish Socialist Party (SSP) days after the meeting in November 2004, won £200,000 in damages over claims that he was an adulterer who had visited a swingers club.

After a police investigation, Mr and Mrs Sheridan were charged with perjury.

On the second day of the new trial, Ms Scott said a citation asking for the documents was sent to the Scottish Socialist Party (SSP) headquarters ahead of Mr Sheridan's civil defamation action.

The 40-year-old, who took the minutes at the 9 November 2004 meeting, said the party was reluctant to hand them over.

She previously told the court the documents recorded Mr Sheridan admitting twice to visiting a swingers club in Manchester.

"I want to decide what I do with them because there was already talk in the party about whether or not to destroy minutes or change them”

She said: "The party didn't want to hand them over because they would have dropped Tommy in it."

Ms Scott said she had not seen the minutes since late November 2004 when she had handed them in to the party.

However, she said there had been talk of changing minutes and she decided she wanted to get them back.

They were returned to her after she asked for them.

Ms Scott told the court: "I just thought I want to have them. I want to decide what I do with them because there was already talk in the party about whether or not to destroy minutes or change them."

The court heard she was a witness in the earlier civil case and was cross-examined by Mr Sheridan.

She said: "He said I had fabricated the whole minutes after the fact as part of a conspiracy against him."

Advocate depute Alex Prentice QC asked what she thought of the theory.

She replied: "It's laughable and not true."

Former SSP treasurer Allison Kane also gave evidence.

She told the court she was at the meeting where Mr Sheridan allegedly confessed to visiting the club.

She said the former party leader later contacted her by phone so no formal minutes would be produced.

Barbara Scott was giving evidence for a second day She said: "Tommy wanted them not to be produced, to suggest to other people that we should lose them. I did not agree with him."

The 42 year-old said Mr Sheridan also wanted her to talk to the press and lie about SSP colleagues.

She told the court: "It was to spread details of other people in the party having affairs.

"I thought he had lost the plot at that stage, but I did appreciate why he had asked me.

"At first, I did not know what to do. I knew that if I reported it, it would be the end of our friendship.

"However, his course of action would destroy our party and make us unelectable."

Ms Kane said she later decided to report the matter to the party.

It is alleged that Mr Sheridan made false statements as a witness in his defamation action against the News of the World on 21 July 2006.

He also denies another charge of attempting to persuade a witness to commit perjury shortly before the 23-day legal action got under way.

Mrs Sheridan denies making false statements on 31 July 2006, after being sworn in as a witness in the civil jury trial at the Court of Session in Edinburgh.

The trial, before judge Lord Bracadale, is due to last between two and three months and is expected to become the longest perjury case in Scottish legal history.

Hmm, very interesting, the News of the World may have got its facts right after all! McCanns watch out, these newspapers are like elephants with long memories and what goes around comes around.

Another Catholic boy with narsistic tendancies.Got a colourful track record and already done a couple of stints in the clink.And a right old rougues gallery of supporters.
NoTW aint stupid when it comes to 'setting up' a juicy story.Am suprised the mccc's havn't been caught out yet,give it time.

Lioned wrote:Another Catholic boy with narsistic tendancies.Got a colourful track record and already done a couple of stints in the clink.And a right old rougues gallery of supporters.
NoTW aint stupid when it comes to 'setting up' a juicy story.Am suprised the mccc's havn't been caught out yet,give it time.

Indeed Lioned. A very overbearing and obnoxious character (imho)

Isn't he a buddy of George Galloway?

The trouble is if you lie about something, and time passes, you need to have the memory of an elephant. And the more things you lie about, the more you have to remember.

Angelique

pennylane wrote:

Lioned wrote:Another Catholic boy with narsistic tendancies.Got a colourful track record and already done a couple of stints in the clink.And a right old rougues gallery of supporters.
NoTW aint stupid when it comes to 'setting up' a juicy story.Am suprised the mccc's havn't been caught out yet,give it time.

Indeed Lioned. A very overbearing and obnoxious character (imho)

Isn't he a buddy of George Galloway?

Yes, he is, but credit where credit is due. He is not nearly as obnoxious as his shrew of a wife.

The Famous Grouse wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Lioned wrote:Another Catholic boy with narsistic tendancies.Got a colourful track record and already done a couple of stints in the clink.And a right old rougues gallery of supporters.
NoTW aint stupid when it comes to 'setting up' a juicy story.Am suprised the mccc's havn't been caught out yet,give it time.

Indeed Lioned. A very overbearing and obnoxious character (imho)

Isn't he a buddy of George Galloway?

Yes, he is, but credit where credit is due. He is not nearly as obnoxious as his shrew of a wife.

OMG I totally agree with you ....... she's a nasty piece of work that woman!

Lioned wrote:Another Catholic boy with narsistic tendancies.Got a colourful track record and already done a couple of stints in the clink.And a right old rougues gallery of supporters.
NoTW aint stupid when it comes to 'setting up' a juicy story.Am suprised the mccc's havn't been caught out yet,give it time.

Oh yes, the newspapers are drooling all over them at the moment but so many articles that certain publications print now are worded in a more cynical fashion that I am certain they are waiting in the wings for their field day. It makes an even bigger story for them when they can right a wrong which they feel they have been accused of.

LJC wrote:Scottish Socialist Party members talked about changing minutes in which Tommy Sheridan allegedly admitted attending a swingers club, a court has heard.

Barbara Scott told the High Court in Glasgow that party members did not want to hand the document to police as it would have "dropped Tommy in it".

Mr Sheridan and his wife Gail, both 46, are on trial accused of perjury.

They are accused of lying to help him successfully sue the News of the World in 2006. They deny the charges.

Mr Sheridan, who resigned as leader of the Scottish Socialist Party (SSP) days after the meeting in November 2004, won £200,000 in damages over claims that he was an adulterer who had visited a swingers club.

After a police investigation, Mr and Mrs Sheridan were charged with perjury.

On the second day of the new trial, Ms Scott said a citation asking for the documents was sent to the Scottish Socialist Party (SSP) headquarters ahead of Mr Sheridan's civil defamation action.

The 40-year-old, who took the minutes at the 9 November 2004 meeting, said the party was reluctant to hand them over.

She previously told the court the documents recorded Mr Sheridan admitting twice to visiting a swingers club in Manchester.

"I want to decide what I do with them because there was already talk in the party about whether or not to destroy minutes or change them”

She said: "The party didn't want to hand them over because they would have dropped Tommy in it."

Ms Scott said she had not seen the minutes since late November 2004 when she had handed them in to the party.

However, she said there had been talk of changing minutes and she decided she wanted to get them back.

They were returned to her after she asked for them.

Ms Scott told the court: "I just thought I want to have them. I want to decide what I do with them because there was already talk in the party about whether or not to destroy minutes or change them."

The court heard she was a witness in the earlier civil case and was cross-examined by Mr Sheridan.

She said: "He said I had fabricated the whole minutes after the fact as part of a conspiracy against him."

Advocate depute Alex Prentice QC asked what she thought of the theory.

She replied: "It's laughable and not true."

Former SSP treasurer Allison Kane also gave evidence.

She told the court she was at the meeting where Mr Sheridan allegedly confessed to visiting the club.

She said the former party leader later contacted her by phone so no formal minutes would be produced.

Barbara Scott was giving evidence for a second day She said: "Tommy wanted them not to be produced, to suggest to other people that we should lose them. I did not agree with him."

The 42 year-old said Mr Sheridan also wanted her to talk to the press and lie about SSP colleagues.

She told the court: "It was to spread details of other people in the party having affairs.

"I thought he had lost the plot at that stage, but I did appreciate why he had asked me.

"At first, I did not know what to do. I knew that if I reported it, it would be the end of our friendship.

"However, his course of action would destroy our party and make us unelectable."

Ms Kane said she later decided to report the matter to the party.

It is alleged that Mr Sheridan made false statements as a witness in his defamation action against the News of the World on 21 July 2006.

He also denies another charge of attempting to persuade a witness to commit perjury shortly before the 23-day legal action got under way.

Mrs Sheridan denies making false statements on 31 July 2006, after being sworn in as a witness in the civil jury trial at the Court of Session in Edinburgh.

The trial, before judge Lord Bracadale, is due to last between two and three months and is expected to become the longest perjury case in Scottish legal history.

Hmm, very interesting, the News of the World may have got its facts right after all! McCanns watch out, these newspapers are like elephants with long memories and what goes around comes around.

So he was accused of being a swinger. So What!!!. Swingers are all consenting adults who consent to having sex with multiple ADULT partners. What harm are they doing to anyone. They are enjoying themselves in the privacy of whatever party they are attending. They are not harming children or forcing anyone into doing anything they dont want to do. Wouldnt be my cup of tea but if thats what some people like to do then that's their business.

Yeah, but he denied it; and then it was later proved that he lied on oath.

He should've just admitted it in the first place. I think most people would've said, "so what"

The Famous Grouse wrote:Yeah, but he denied it; and then it was later proved that he lied on oath.

He should've just admitted it in the first place. I think most people would've said, "so what"

Id say the reason he lied is probably because its a stigmatised way of behaving to a lot of people. Unfortunately a lot of people live in the dark ages when it comes to different sexuality.

His biggest mistake after the fact was denying his indiscretions. If he felt the need to lie about what he was doing then he should have been more careful what he said and did.

I may be old fashioned but I believe that people in the public eye should be seen to promote high standards of morals, as in the case of Jacqui Smith's porno film renting husband. who also had the cheek to charge the public for his pleasures. Imo

If he lied on oath - it's perjury - possible jail and fine. Judges discretion.

Angelique

Antoinette wrote:

"So he was accused of being a swinger. So What!!!. Swingers are all consenting adults who consent to having sex with multiple ADULT partners. What harm are they doing to anyone. They are enjoying themselves in the privacy of whatever party they are attending. They are not harming children or forcing anyone into doing anything they dont want to do. Wouldnt be my cup of tea but if thats what some people like to do then that's their business".

I personally do not lose sleep over whether someone is a swinger, gay, straight, married or single, so long as they are honest about what they are. Each to his own. But those that refuse to come out in order to better themselves and those that lie and deceive, well yes that's a different game altogether isn't it. Double lives often mean double standards and people do get hurt. It is wrong, imo, to say they are not harming children because if they are leading double lives they are liars and liars do not make good parents. It has been said many times on this forum that when the McCann twins are old enough they will read about the lengths their parents went to so that they could escape the courts. So, if they are not harmed now they may well be in the future.

LJC wrote:Antoinette wrote:

"So he was accused of being a swinger. So What!!!. Swingers are all consenting adults who consent to having sex with multiple ADULT partners. What harm are they doing to anyone. They are enjoying themselves in the privacy of whatever party they are attending. They are not harming children or forcing anyone into doing anything they dont want to do. Wouldnt be my cup of tea but if thats what some people like to do then that's their business".

I personally do not lose sleep over whether someone is a swinger, gay, straight, married or single, so long as they are honest about what they are. Each to his own. But those that refuse to come out in order to better themselves and those that lie and deceive, well yes that's a different game altogether isn't it. Double lives often mean double standards and people do get hurt. It is wrong, imo, to say they are not harming children because if they are leading double lives they are liars and liars do not make good parents. It has been said many times on this forum that when the McCann twins are old enough they will read about the lengths their parents went to so that they could escape the courts. So, if they are not harmed now they may well be in the future.

Not all swingers are parents either LJC. There are a lot of single people out there who swing too. How are they harming children. They dont have the children in the rooms with them and probably not in the house/hotel whatever that they are doing this. Im sure those parents that are swingers make arrangements to have their children minded while they go out and swing. Also how are they leading double lives?

As for the Mccann children, this is a different situation altogether. Those children were left unnattended in a foreign country while their parents chose to wine and dine with their friends. What has that got to do with Swinging?

Antoinette wrote:

Not all swingers are parents either LJC. There are a lot of single people out there who swing too. How are they harming children. They dont have the children in the rooms with them and probably not in the house/hotel whatever that they are doing this. Im sure those parents that are swingers make arrangements to have their children minded while they go out and swing. Also how are they leading double lives?

As for the Mccann children, this is a different situation altogether. Those children were left unnattended in a foreign country while their parents chose to wine and dine with their friends. What has that got to do with Swinging?

I actually said liars do not make good parents and I was referring to those swingers who are lying about their activities and who have children. I did say I did not lose sleep over what people are and what they do in their own time, and each to his own. If they are single people doing it, then fine, so long as they do not go to the lengths of lying about it. Everyone is entitled to privacy and everyone is entitled to say 'mind your own business' that's fair enough, because their business is their own. But what I do not like are those who lie and deceive instead of saying 'mind your own business' . And if they have children and then lie and deny their lifestyles, surely this is leading a double life? They are being dishonest about how they spend their private time. I do not doubt they make arrangements to have their children minded (well sometimes) but if they are lying about where they went and what they did to their children, to their colleagues, to their family, that is different because once found out they are exposed as liars and yes, that is then hurtful to their children, colleagues and family who are so shocked at what they eventually discover, because they thought they 'knew the person'.

I did not say the McCanns were swingers either, but merely pointed out that, as I believe the McCanns are liars for other reasons, then one sad day this will be hurtful and harmful to the twins. I was making the comparison that lying is hurtful to those people close to you.

I am referring to liars, out and out liars, who pretend to be something they are not and whose lives are completely different in reality to the lives they all want us to believe they are leading.

LJC wrote:Antoinette wrote:

Not all swingers are parents either LJC. There are a lot of single people out there who swing too. How are they harming children. They dont have the children in the rooms with them and probably not in the house/hotel whatever that they are doing this. Im sure those parents that are swingers make arrangements to have their children minded while they go out and swing. Also how are they leading double lives?

As for the Mccann children, this is a different situation altogether. Those children were left unnattended in a foreign country while their parents chose to wine and dine with their friends. What has that got to do with Swinging?

I actually said liars do not make good parents and I was referring to those swingers who are lying about their activities and who have children. I did say I did not lose sleep over what people are and what they do in their own time, and each to his own. If they are single people doing it, then fine, so long as they do not go to the lengths of lying about it. Everyone is entitled to privacy and everyone is entitled to say 'mind your own business' that's fair enough, because their business is their own. But what I do not like are those who lie and deceive instead of saying 'mind your own business' . And if they have children and then lie and deny their lifestyles, surely this is leading a double life? They are being dishonest about how they spend their private time. I do not doubt they make arrangements to have their children minded (well sometimes) but if they are lying about where they went and what they did to their children, to their colleagues, to their family, that is different because once found out they are exposed as liars and yes, that is then hurtful to their children, colleagues and family who are so shocked at what they eventually discover, because they thought they 'knew the person'.

I did not say the McCanns were swingers either, but merely pointed out that, as I believe the McCanns are liars for other reasons, then one sad day this will be hurtful and harmful to the twins. I was making the comparison that lying is hurtful to those people close to you.

I am referring to liars, out and out liars, who pretend to be something they are not and whose lives are completely different in reality to the lives they all want us to believe they are leading.

And your comment above is one of the reasons why swingers etc have to lie. Ill put it to you another way. Most parents have sex while their children are in their own home. Do they tell their children the next morning that they had sex. NO they dont, so that means all parents are liars if your comment above is anything to go by.

The President of France before Sarkozy (I forget his name) had a string of affairs, which the opposition party found out about. They splashed it all over the papers, hoping to discredit the president and force an early election. Far from denying it, he simply shrugged and said, "Big Deal!" His ratings actually went up in the polls after that.

The Famous Grouse wrote:His ratings actually went up in the polls after that.

thy were probably impressed that at his age he could still get it up.

Marky wrote:

The Famous Grouse wrote:His ratings actually went up in the polls after that.

thy were probably impressed that at his age he could still get it up.

Antoinette wrote:

And your comment above is one of the reasons why swingers etc have to lie. Ill put it to you another way. Most parents have sex while their children are in their own home. Do they tell their children the next morning that they had sex. NO they dont, so that means all parents are liars if your comment above is anything to go by.

Do parents have to tell children and do children have to be told? Don't you mean what if they ask?

The words I would use for parents in this situation is discreet or tactful but not liars. Very young children do not ask very often I would imagine and a tactful reply like we are having a cuddle because we love each other would even be reassuring to a young child. As for older children, well they have to be taught not to disturb mommy and daddy without knocking the door first. But, you know, older kids are not daft, now are they? They know the score imo.

Parents who lie though, there is a difference imo because if, for instance, you tell your children you are off to the supermarket and instead are booking into a hotel to meet another couple to wife swap and have a romp, imagine their horror if they find out. Not all children are 3 years old and too young to understand. Imagine your children are 10 years or thereabouts? And they could find out. Another scorned couple who the parents used to swing with but no longer fancy this couple, well they may not be trusted to keep quiet. Its no different, this lying, to that of a married man or woman when being unfaithful, and indeed is called leading a double life.

In fact I know a young lady as she is now whose parents were/are swingers, but because of their lifestyle her parents did not stay married for long, as the mother went off with her best friend's husband, and vica versa, and then split with him and is now on partner number 4 and they in turn swing. The father did similar and had many partners at the finish. As for this girl, she was always what I would call spoilt, because they used to give her more money than sense, she was always at her minders, her tantrums were awful and she is what I would now call a very demanding madam who will not lift a finger and her current boyfriend has to jump when she says jump, She remained living with her mother after her parents split and her mother did, at the finish, come clean to her about her activities, which continue to this day, with the mother trying to do everything she can to look younger than her daughter and the daughter showing similar tendencies to her mother in so far as anything goes, if you know what I mean. Has she been harmed? I would say undoubtedly she has and will probably put children of her own through an unstable childhood just like hers, but I do hope, as she is such a selfish sort, that she never starts a family.

As for the McCanns, imo they are lying about plenty of things at the moment which will I think one day hurt the twins when they realise how their sister was lost. Are they swingers? I'm not sure, but they did take great 'offence' at the police and newspapers when they intimated they were, just like Tommy Sheridan as detailed in my original post on this thread. Time will tell if the cops were right all along I suppose, but they seemed more worried about these rumours than they were about their missing daughter.

It is my opinion that people's sexual lives, among consenting adults, of course, have nothing whatsoever to do with their parental skills. I could never feel comfortable with the swinging life style (terrible at sharing) but I don't think swingers are worse parents just because they are swingers.

I don't have an opinion one way or the other about other peoples private lives - all I am bothered about really, is the effect the behaviour of the parents has on the child/children.

If they indulge in practices, whatever form it is, in front of the children the children may grow up to accept it as the "norm". Raising children is difficult because what they see and how they are treated usually stays with them for life.

Angelique

well, it's five o'clock somewhere. cheers.

They both disgust me, not because they are swingers, but because they are liars of the first degree.

Like the McCanns, I would not be disgusted if (and that is a BIG if) Madeleine had died accidentally. What disgusts me is the lies, the spin, the money making, the bullying and the absolute lack of any respect whatsoever for their wee girl.

I don't give a toss what consenting adults do. I only care when it involves children or forcing someone to do something they aren't comfortable with. If someone want to nail his willy to a lampost whilst wearing a bag on his head then get on with it

If the Mccanns were swingers, well so be it, but surely they would have to put the children together in one apartment so they wouldn't be disturbed, so perhaps that is when Madddie had her accident while the childrens were alone. I honestly don't know.