Re: jo yeates

princess_leia Wed 5 Jan - 20:40

kitti wrote:No sock has been handed in, the sock given to the police at the gate is a black sock that was found.

So the sock handed in is definitely not Joanna's? Have I missed something?

Guest Wed 5 Jan - 20:56

whatsupdoc wrote:Alpine Astor...I also didn't think your post warranted a red stripe so I gave you a + as I think using dogs is a good move.

They are useful for several different types of work.

I owned up to giving Fedrules a red stripe, so time this redstriper did the same because it certainly isn't me. Be a man about it ! [Or woman ? ]

But to the dogs , the police will have thought of that . long ago surely . There must be some evidence or a situation we don't know about which doesn't warrant the use of dogs don't you think?
Pretty sure the landlord mentioned two people with Jo outside the flat on Sky news before he was arrested. Maybe she was giving them the pizza and they dragged her off, hence the screams ?

**pennylane** Wed 5 Jan - 21:55

News footage of the CSI dogs being taken into Jo's flat .... and perhaps indicating were her body had lain ..... has the potential to be very "hurtful and unhelpful" for the doctors' McCann.

**malena stool** Wed 5 Jan - 22:13

pennylane wrote:News footage of the CSI dogs being taken into Jo's flat .... and perhaps indicating were her body had lain ..... has the potential to be very "hurtful and unhelpful" for the doctors' McCann.

Ah yes Dr Gerry, the well known connoisseur of all things canine

jo yeates - Page 40 Mccann_body_language_intro_5

**pennylane** Wed 5 Jan - 22:44

malena stool wrote:
pennylane wrote:News footage of the CSI dogs being taken into Jo's flat .... and perhaps indicating were her body had lain ..... has the potential to be very "hurtful and unhelpful" for the doctors' McCann.
Ah yes Dr Gerry, the well known connoisseur of all things canine

They DID "Ask the Dogs, Sandra"...... jo yeates - Page 40 670379

....... and they indicated that blood and a dead body had been present in the McCanns apartment.

**pennylane** Wed 5 Jan - 22:49

Alpine Aster wrote:
pennylane wrote:Is the missing sock thought to be what was used to strangle Jo with?

It could be, the perpetrator may have kept the sock because his DNA could have transferred to the sock, if gloves were worn then fibres from the gloves could have transferred to the sock, or if bare hand's were used with the sock then skin, sweat, DNA could be detectable by FSS giving his DNA profile to the FSS.

That's very possible Alpine. Though it is strange that Jo was still wearing the other sock, which is why my first thoughts were that it came off when the body was being dragged .... and was swiftly picked up by the perpetrator and later disposed of.

**lifeisforliving** Wed 5 Jan - 23:01

kitti wrote:Why the hell are people handing in old socks!!

I mean, does a BLACK sock look like a GREY sock or is he colour blind.

Well as I understand it we don't have any idea as to where this sock was found but I do know that if I lived in the area and had spotted a sock (grey, dark blue, dark brown or black or anything similar) in an odd place and was watching the TV and saw the police asking about a missing grey sock I would probably direct them to it immediately or if I lived very close and had already moved it once (put it in the bin for example) then I might even be disposed to take it straight round to them.

The fact is the police would prefer you to do that rather than ignore it completely as you suggest. If it is irrelevant they will soon realise that. If it is vital then ignoring it would have been nothing short of criminal.

**lifeisforliving** Wed 5 Jan - 23:05

kitti wrote:No sock has been handed in, the sock given to the police at the gate is a black sock that was found.

Jo had one sock on when found and they need to find the other sock and are insinuating that the murderer took it either by mistake or intentionally.

So a sock has been handed in.

**pennylane** Wed 5 Jan - 23:09

lifeisforliving wrote:
kitti wrote:Why the hell are people handing in old socks!!

I mean, does a BLACK sock look like a GREY sock or is he colour blind.

Well as I understand it we don't have any idea as to where this sock was found but I do know that if I lived in the area and had spotted a sock (grey, dark blue, dark brown or black or anything similar) in an odd place and was watching the TV and saw the police asking about a missing grey sock I would probably direct them to it immediately [/b]or if I lived very close and had already moved it once (put it in the bin for example) then I might even be disposed to take it straight round to them.

The fact is the police would prefer you to do that rather than ignore it completely as you suggest. If it is irrelevant they will soon realise that. If it is vital then ignoring it would have been nothing short of criminal.

I agree lifeisforliving. How many socks does one see lying around outside? I would definitely hand in a sock if I found one in the vicinity. Besides, whose to say Jo wasn't wearing slightly mismatched socks, because one got mixed in with the hotter jeans wash cycle ....... that happens to me all the time.

**T4two** Wed 5 Jan - 23:35

If they'd found the sock in the boot of one of Jefferies' cars I suppose that would have been case solved. But they didn't, and so it's possible that it came off and was picked up by whoever done it and possibly disposed of somewhere in the vicinity of the flat, or where she was found. If there's a murderer out there who threw the sock away somewhere, it might be quite worrying to realise that people are looking everywhere for that sock. The murderer might even return to the place it was thrown away to recover it and dispose of it somewhere else if they thought it could be found. The police are throwing out a net, they may catch something interesting in it or they may not. Fact is that sometimes you need a 'lucky' break, but you have to do something for it.

princess_leia Wed 5 Jan - 23:37

pennylane wrote:
lifeisforliving wrote:
kitti wrote:Why the hell are people handing in old socks!!

I mean, does a BLACK sock look like a GREY sock or is he colour blind.

Well as I understand it we don't have any idea as to where this sock was found but I do know that if I lived in the area and had spotted a sock (grey, dark blue, dark brown or black or anything similar) in an odd place and was watching the TV and saw the police asking about a missing grey sock I would probably direct them to it immediately [/b]or if I lived very close and had already moved it once (put it in the bin for example) then I might even be disposed to take it straight round to them.

The fact is the police would prefer you to do that rather than ignore it completely as you suggest. If it is irrelevant they will soon realise that. If it is vital then ignoring it would have been nothing short of criminal.

I agree lifeisforliving. How many socks does one see lying around outside? I would definitely hand in a sock if I found one in the vicinity. Besides, whose to say Jo wasn't wearing slightly mismatched socks, because one got mixed in with the hotter jeans wash cycle ....... that happens to me all the time.

Precisely!

No one can 100% say that the sock in that picture is black, the only people who will know that are those who have seen the actual sock and examined it further. And no one can 100% say she was wearing an identical pair of matching socks. I always have missing socks in my house and sometimes have to wear an odd pair.

**Dimsie** Thu 6 Jan - 1:07

I don't know what it is about socks, you can have all the pairs in the world and throw them into the washing machine and when they come out there's always at least one, sometimes more, with no match. I swear the washing machine eats them or changes their colour. So yes, Jo could have been wearing slightly different socks; after all, no one sees them with boots so it doesn't really matter.

You know, just thinking of this makes me feel so sad for Jo and her family. Just an ordinary young girl, doing the everyday things everybody does, going to work, having a drink in the pub with colleagues, a little bit of shopping, making plans with a friend, home, maybe feed the cat, have some cider ... and then something happened, though we don't know exactly when or what. But that was the end of all her hopes and dreams, as well as an end to her everyday routine, the end of her parents having a daughter, her brother having a sister, her boyfriend having a girlfriend, even an end for her cat having a woman to fuss over him and love him. All over, for no reason that seems to make sense, just someone with a wish to kill or at least no objection to killing. How can that person live with himself? Isn't he scared to go to sleep at night? Isn't he haunted by what he's done to an innocent girl and to the lives of her loved ones? I suppose what I'm asking is - how could he do it? I couldn't bear to be responsible for ending anyone's life, it would destroy me.

**zodiac** Thu 6 Jan - 1:45

Dimsie wrote:I don't know what it is about socks, you can have all the pairs in the world and throw them into the washing machine and when they come out there's always at least one, sometimes more, with no match. I swear the washing machine eats them or changes their colour. So yes, Jo could have been wearing slightly different socks; after all, no one sees them with boots so it doesn't really matter.

You know, just thinking of this makes me feel so sad for Jo and her family. Just an ordinary young girl, doing the everyday things everybody does, going to work, having a drink in the pub with colleagues, a little bit of shopping, making plans with a friend, home, maybe feed the cat, have some cider ... and then something happened, though we don't know exactly when or what. But that was the end of all her hopes and dreams, as well as an end to her everyday routine, the end of her parents having a daughter, her brother having a sister, her boyfriend having a girlfriend, even an end for her cat having a woman to fuss over him and love him. All over, for no reason that seems to make sense, just someone with a wish to kill or at least no objection to killing. How can that person live with himself? Isn't he scared to go to sleep at night? Isn't he haunted by what he's done to an innocent girl and to the lives of her loved ones? I suppose what I'm asking is - how could he do it? I couldn't bear to be responsible for ending anyone's life, it would destroy me.

Your words above are how I feel. Thanks for writing and sharing them with us. jo yeates - Page 40 307691

**lifeisforliving** Thu 6 Jan - 1:51

Dimsie wrote:I don't know what it is about socks, you can have all the pairs in the world and throw them into the washing machine and when they come out there's always at least one, sometimes more, with no match. I swear the washing machine eats them or changes their colour. So yes, Jo could have been wearing slightly different socks; after all, no one sees them with boots so it doesn't really matter.

You know, just thinking of this makes me feel so sad for Jo and her family. Just an ordinary young girl, doing the everyday things everybody does, going to work, having a drink in the pub with colleagues, a little bit of shopping, making plans with a friend, home, maybe feed the cat, have some cider ... and then something happened, though we don't know exactly when or what. But that was the end of all her hopes and dreams, as well as an end to her everyday routine, the end of her parents having a daughter, her brother having a sister, her boyfriend having a girlfriend, even an end for her cat having a woman to fuss over him and love him. All over, for no reason that seems to make sense, just someone with a wish to kill or at least no objection to killing. How can that person live with himself? Isn't he scared to go to sleep at night? Isn't he haunted by what he's done to an innocent girl and to the lives of her loved ones? I suppose what I'm asking is - how could he do it? I couldn't bear to be responsible for ending anyone's life, it would destroy me.

You know this is precisely the kind of post that should get a green stripe both for the deep philosophy of the sock drawer facts in the first part and the heartfelt comment relating to human nature in the second. It won't solve any legal case but it might just make us all think more about life.

eta it got one

adrianm Thu 6 Jan - 4:59

Dimsie wrote:I don't know what it is about socks, you can have all the pairs in the world and throw them into the washing machine and when they come out there's always at least one, sometimes more, with no match. I swear the washing machine eats them or changes their colour. So yes, Jo could have been wearing slightly different socks; after all, no one sees them with boots so it doesn't really matter.

You know, just thinking of this makes me feel so sad for Jo and her family. Just an ordinary young girl, doing the everyday things everybody does, going to work, having a drink in the pub with colleagues, a little bit of shopping, making plans with a friend, home, maybe feed the cat, have some cider ... and then something happened, though we don't know exactly when or what. But that was the end of all her hopes and dreams, as well as an end to her everyday routine, the end of her parents having a daughter, her brother having a sister, her boyfriend having a girlfriend, even an end for her cat having a woman to fuss over him and love him. All over, for no reason that seems to make sense, just someone with a wish to kill or at least no objection to killing. How can that person live with himself? Isn't he scared to go to sleep at night? Isn't he haunted by what he's done to an innocent girl and to the lives of her loved ones? I suppose what I'm asking is - how could he do it? I couldn't bear to be responsible for ending anyone's life, it would destroy me.

I think you've put into very eloquent words what just about everyone must be thinking.

A death is all the more tragic when it is so senseless. Jo appears to have been just a nice, normal, happy young woman without enemies. It seems there has been no robbery nor sexual assualt - just a meaningless killing. I would like to think whoever has murdered Jo is tortured by their conscience every minute of every day for the rest of their life, but perhaps he/she doesn't have a conscience.

BTW... sorry if someone has said this already, but if the sock was used to strangle her, doesn't that indicate the crime was not premeditated?

**Chris** Thu 6 Jan - 7:51

T4two wrote:
Chris wrote:
T4two wrote:
It's not completely clear just why the police took this action and IMO they should be given the benefit of the doubt in that they must be confident that in doing so they are not compromising the investigation. Of course the police need to work together with the media even if, as you say, only to glean new information, but if it is their belief that it is better to exclude ITV news from the process then that is their call. Whether they have possibly shot themselves in the foot by doing so will become apparent as the investigation proceeds or fails as the case may be. Perhaps it is a good thing to remind the media just who is responsible for running this investigation - they do seem to be a bit too full of their own importance at times.

Equally the same could be said about whoever took the decision to exclude the "press" from a "press" conference because of a bit of oversensitivity. If they had a chance to comment and declined it (even if only to say they were keeping their powder dry for operational reasons) as I said before it is petty in the extreme to then retaliate by means which could actually hinder the possibility of information coming forward. The good thing about our public bodies is that they are there to be criticised without fear of retribution unlike some tin pot dictatorships.

Disagree and I note that it is ITV News who were banned and that it is Kier Simmonds who is in charge of ITV News. The same Kier Simmonds incidently who regards people on fora such as this as Internet scum. Let the banning of ITV be a warning to all the media to behave a bit more responsibly in future. This action has certainly restored my faith in the police in this case who initially gave me the impression of being a bit too close to the media or 'media savvy' as it was once so famously described. I'm afraid no number of articles of the media interviewing the media is going to alter my view.

I am not sure it is correct to say KS is in charge of ITV news - he is described as "UK editor" but if you look at the ITV news team on the website he doesn't appear to be top bod (far from it - he appears under correspondents). http://www.itv.com/news/meettheteam/
At ITV News, David Mannion is Editor in Chief with Deborah Turness editor of ITV News and Jim Gray editor of C4 news. KS appears a little down the pecking order somewhere.

The article posted by Mumbles (the C4 reporter's take on A & S police action) is interesting since it appears not to be the first time the force has taken it upon themselves to pick and choose who gets to report on their activities as "trusted" journalists.

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