The children who are so neglected they start school 'without even knowing their own name'

But what if they had used a baby listening service rather than choose to do it themselves would that be neglect. Afterall they were just doing the same job as a listening service using themselves rather than strangers to listen for their children. While a baby listening service is not something I personally would condone it is something that has been widely used by many parents certainly if you go back a generation. So are these parents neglectful letting strangers listen for their children while they go out for an evening. Genuine question.

A mother who forgets her child for 2 hours isn't surely well. Someone who is well cannot forget about a child for two hours. I don't forget about my cat for two hours let alone a child. If she is not well, social services have the duty to intervene. I don't know if in that case the child should be removed or not. But I have no doubt the case should be reported to the social services ASAP. One of these days she may forget again. And that time her child may not be so lucky and may end up missing or dead. And that is a risk no one should take.

Badboy wrote:Slightly off topic,there are school leavers who can't read,write or do numbers,so a taxi driver was telling me.

yes and i used to see quite a few of them when i taught hnc level students

neglect and abuse take many forms, not always obvious
and raising the twins to play games of hunt the monster who stole maddie
is a form of abuse
imho

imo any child under 11 or 12 especally 3 toddlers under 4 is and always will be neglect theres no excuse whatsoever parents are responsible for their children not baby listerners or anything like that THE parents are responisble just like the mcanns are responsible for maddies dissaperence at least!!!!

sunflower wrote:But what if they had used a baby listening service rather than choose to do it themselves would that be neglect. Afterall they were just doing the same job as a listening service using themselves rather than strangers to listen for their children. While a baby listening service is not something I personally would condone it is something that has been widely used by many parents certainly if you go back a generation. So are these parents neglectful letting strangers listen for their children while they go out for an evening. Genuine question.

Nowadays, absolutely. I would consider it neglect. And the listening service was never available in Portugal, by the way.

If the twins are still being neglected then it would be better for them to be placed with a family who will not neglect them.

What causes reactive attachment disorder and other attachment problems?

Reactive attachment disorder and other attachment problems occur when children have been unable to consistently connect with a parent or primary caregiver. This can happen for many reasons:

* A baby cries and no one responds or offers comfort.
* A baby is hungry or wet, and they aren’t attended to for hours. [i]
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/parenting_bonding_reactive_attachment_disorder.htm

This is what Maddie and the twins had to put up with in PDL - Who knows if its still going on.

The Famous Grouse wrote:

Badboy wrote:Slightly off topic,there are school leavers who can't read,write or do numbers,so a taxi driver was telling me.

yes and i used to see quite a few of them when i taught hnc level students

neglect and abuse take many forms, not always obvious
and raising the twins to play games of hunt the monster who stole maddie
is a form of abuse
imho

not to mention the emotinal trauma of kate and gerry making the twins give maddie birthdday presents etc when they are only 5???? they wouldnt reemebr maddie now so imo thats cruel too

aqeleega wrote:If the twins are still being neglected then it would be better for them to be placed with a family who will not neglect them.

What causes reactive attachment disorder and other attachment problems?

Reactive attachment disorder and other attachment problems occur when children have been unable to consistently connect with a parent or primary caregiver. This can happen for many reasons:

* A baby cries and no one responds or offers comfort.
* A baby is hungry or wet, and they aren’t attended to for hours. [i]
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/parenting_bonding_reactive_attachment_disorder.htm

This is what Maddie and the twins had to put up with in PDL - Who knows if its still going on.

i wont ever forgive them for letting maddie cry/scream for like 70 minutes what did a 3 year old do to deserve that???? and that isnt made up mrs fern heard maddie!!

The fact that we don't see children being neglected doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I once worked with children who came from very wealthy parents. The kind of children who are taken to school and picked up from school by nannies and their parents' drivers. I remember one kid particularly who had everything money can buy. Ipod, IPhone, teh latest computer, etc. He had private tutor, martial arts classes, music classes, a swimming instructor and worked out like a little athlete as well as having the nest grades possible. One day his mother called me and offered me a small fortune so I could look after the kid during summer break because she and her husband wanted to go on a long cruise with no kids to disturb. And she told me not to worry because she would call once a week. It was heartbreaking. I never forgot that kid. He is now finishing medical school and has almost no contact with his parents.

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:But what if they had used a baby listening service rather than choose to do it themselves would that be neglect. Afterall they were just doing the same job as a listening service using themselves rather than strangers to listen for their children. While a baby listening service is not something I personally would condone it is something that has been widely used by many parents certainly if you go back a generation. So are these parents neglectful letting strangers listen for their children while they go out for an evening. Genuine question.

Nowadays, absolutely. I would consider it neglect. And the listening service was never available in Portugal, by the way.

Obviously I know it wasn't available hence the reason they decided to do it themselves........just a what if question.

Why 'nowadays' would you consider it neglect.

Thanks for the reply though, I would be interested to hear what others think.

If you go back a couple of generations children were left in cars outside pubs with bags of crisps and bottles of coke whilst their parents got drunk then drove them all home.
Thankfully you would be locked up if you did that now.

sunflower wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:But what if they had used a baby listening service rather than choose to do it themselves would that be neglect. Afterall they were just doing the same job as a listening service using themselves rather than strangers to listen for their children. While a baby listening service is not something I personally would condone it is something that has been widely used by many parents certainly if you go back a generation. So are these parents neglectful letting strangers listen for their children while they go out for an evening. Genuine question.

Nowadays, absolutely. I would consider it neglect. And the listening service was never available in Portugal, by the way.

Obviously I know it wasn't available hence the reason they decided to do it themselves........just a what if question.

Why 'nowadays' would you consider it neglect.

Thanks for the reply though, I would be interested to hear what others think.

Because 40 years ago many people weren't so aware of the dangers. Although my grandmother who was born 1n 1900, worked in the fields and gave birth to 7 children took her children to the fields so she could always see them as she couldn't afford not to work.
They had the creche, though. And babysitters who could go the their apartments. They just didn't think it was worth it.
Just to be clear, I consider that leaving 3 under 4 year olds home alone, in any circumstance, is neglectful.
You're welcome.

aqeleega wrote:If you go back a couple of generations children were left in cars outside pubs with bags of crisps and bottles of coke whilst their parents got drunk then drove them all home.
Thankfully you would be locked up if you did that now.

same here also i dont know about the uk but here if you you or your childre etc are caught withoout seatbelt you get fined before seatbeats kids got killed and flew though car windows!!

Justiceforallkids wrote:imo any child under 11 or 12 especally 3 toddlers under 4 is and always will be neglect theres no excuse whatsoever parents are responsible for their children not baby listerners or anything like that THE parents are responisble just like the mcanns are responsible for maddies dissaperence at least!!!!

My parents left myself and my brother in a hotel room many moons ago and used the hotel listening service, my parents certainly didn't neglect us. Like I said earlier it was a very popular service widely used by many parents......I don't for one minute think all these parents were neglectful.

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:But what if they had used a baby listening service rather than choose to do it themselves would that be neglect. Afterall they were just doing the same job as a listening service using themselves rather than strangers to listen for their children. While a baby listening service is not something I personally would condone it is something that has been widely used by many parents certainly if you go back a generation. So are these parents neglectful letting strangers listen for their children while they go out for an evening. Genuine question.

Nowadays, absolutely. I would consider it neglect. And the listening service was never available in Portugal, by the way.

Obviously I know it wasn't available hence the reason they decided to do it themselves........just a what if question.

Why 'nowadays' would you consider it neglect.

Thanks for the reply though, I would be interested to hear what others think.

Because 40 years ago many people weren't so aware of the dangers. Although my grandmother who was born 1n 1900, worked in the fields and gave birth to 7 children took her children to the fields so she could always see them as she couldn't afford not to work.
They had the creche, though. And babysitters who could go the their apartments. They just didn't think it was worth it.
Just to be clear, I consider that leaving 3 under 4 year olds home alone, in any circumstance, is neglectful.
You're welcome.

I think much, much less than 40 years ago it was still a very popular service to use.

its not so very long ago (in the grand scheme of things) that little kids were used to sweep chimneys and work heavy machinery in factories
thankfully there are laws against that sort of thing nowadays, in this country at least

Around ninety years ago my grandfather who was in his twenties married my grandmother who was 16. If that happened now he would be in jail! Things change, people's perceptions change, standards change.

sunflower wrote:But what if they had used a baby listening service rather than choose to do it themselves would that be neglect. Afterall they were just doing the same job as a listening service using themselves rather than strangers to listen for their children. While a baby listening service is not something I personally would condone it is something that has been widely used by many parents certainly if you go back a generation. So are these parents neglectful letting strangers listen for their children while they go out for an evening. Genuine question.

and a good question.

Why should it be any different now? It does really concern me because like other kids from my background and generation, I was left to get on with things while my mother grafted to put food on the table. While it wasn't ideal, I would rather be with my mother who loved me than rooted off to some care facility on the say so of someone who didn't fully accept or understand the situation.

I really do get very cross when people make glib comments suggesting they know better based on their own standards when in the real world, they often do not.

sunflower wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:But what if they had used a baby listening service rather than choose to do it themselves would that be neglect. Afterall they were just doing the same job as a listening service using themselves rather than strangers to listen for their children. While a baby listening service is not something I personally would condone it is something that has been widely used by many parents certainly if you go back a generation. So are these parents neglectful letting strangers listen for their children while they go out for an evening. Genuine question.

Nowadays, absolutely. I would consider it neglect. And the listening service was never available in Portugal, by the way.

Obviously I know it wasn't available hence the reason they decided to do it themselves........just a what if question.

Why 'nowadays' would you consider it neglect.

Thanks for the reply though, I would be interested to hear what others think.

Because 40 years ago many people weren't so aware of the dangers. Although my grandmother who was born 1n 1900, worked in the fields and gave birth to 7 children took her children to the fields so she could always see them as she couldn't afford not to work.
They had the creche, though. And babysitters who could go the their apartments. They just didn't think it was worth it.
Just to be clear, I consider that leaving 3 under 4 year olds home alone, in any circumstance, is neglectful.
You're welcome.

I think much, much less than 40 years ago it was still a very popular service to use.

Not in my country. And not in the country I was born with. Can't say about other places. I'm 31.

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

So we should take children from parents who make mistakes (like my neighbour - who is one of most most caring people you could ever meet, but suffered a brief lack of concentration, due to a variety of other pressures on her) and put them where? Into care? With all the other countless children whose parents have blipped (like my neighbour) Really?

There isn't much chance of my gaining any ground that the McCann twins should stay with their parents then is there?

Soley based on the videos, the children appear happy and well looked after however what I do find disturbing is not only could the McCanns not see the danger of their actions in leaving the children alone for so long but to also cast aside the fears of Madeleine when she was crying on the Tues evening.

It appears to be a case of preservation of their 'needs' first and that is something quite indicative of the events of the evening Thur 3rd May, which in my opinion became a case of self preservation over and above everything else.

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Nowadays, absolutely. I would consider it neglect. And the listening service was never available in Portugal, by the way.

Obviously I know it wasn't available hence the reason they decided to do it themselves........just a what if question.

Why 'nowadays' would you consider it neglect.

Thanks for the reply though, I would be interested to hear what others think.

Because 40 years ago many people weren't so aware of the dangers. Although my grandmother who was born 1n 1900, worked in the fields and gave birth to 7 children took her children to the fields so she could always see them as she couldn't afford not to work.
They had the creche, though. And babysitters who could go the their apartments. They just didn't think it was worth it.
Just to be clear, I consider that leaving 3 under 4 year olds home alone, in any circumstance, is neglectful.
You're welcome.

I think much, much less than 40 years ago it was still a very popular service to use.

Not in my country. And not in the country I was born with. Can't say about other places. I'm 31.

Ah I see, explains alot.

sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

Justiceforallkids wrote:sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

sunflower wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Obviously I know it wasn't available hence the reason they decided to do it themselves........just a what if question.

Why 'nowadays' would you consider it neglect.

Thanks for the reply though, I would be interested to hear what others think.

Because 40 years ago many people weren't so aware of the dangers. Although my grandmother who was born 1n 1900, worked in the fields and gave birth to 7 children took her children to the fields so she could always see them as she couldn't afford not to work.
They had the creche, though. And babysitters who could go the their apartments. They just didn't think it was worth it.
Just to be clear, I consider that leaving 3 under 4 year olds home alone, in any circumstance, is neglectful.
You're welcome.

I think much, much less than 40 years ago it was still a very popular service to use.

Not in my country. And not in the country I was born with. Can't say about other places. I'm 31.

Ah I see, explains alot.

30 years ago leaving children home alone was not popular in my country or the country I was born in. In fact, until the McCanns mentioned it, most people in Portugal had no idea about what the listening service was. Most of them still don't. Fortunately.

Molly, I think you need to come off that cloud you are sitting on...




Theirs a difference between FORGETTING and KNOWING....


The mccanns KNOWINGLY went out every night leaving 3 children under 4 ALONE in an apt.....the mccanns DID NOT FORGET about leaving them

They didn't go to the tapas and forget they had children.


Your wrote that their was no indication that Madeleine had been neglected before the holiday...



Question no. ???????...Did you, in England, want to hand over guardianship off Madeleine to a relative....I think that's enough evidence for me that Madeleine was NOT wanted, at that time, or even loved, not by her mother anyway.



it doest not matter what kind off day you have had, it does not matter that you have bald patches, it does not matter that you have the flu or your other children have been playing up...YOU LOVE YOUR CHILD.....UNRESERVEDLY???


After all, tomorrow is another day..