The children who are so neglected they start school 'without even knowing their own name'

sunflower wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

Carly, would you have minded if the authorities had placed you in care on the basis that your parents failed in their duty to look after you properly on holiday. Genuine question?

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

And you weren't 4. When I was 11 I helped my mother take care of my terminally ill aunt. It taught me many important things. It taught me that family is everything and that love is only love if you are willing to make sacrifices for the people you say you love. Otherwise, it's just words.

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

Carly, would you have minded if the authorities had placed you in care on the basis that your parents failed in their duty to look after you properly on holiday. Genuine question?

of course i would have minded but like claudia said i was 11 not almost 4 theres a huge diffrence between 11 and 4 !!!! when my mum was a kid at 11 she was running a house and looking after her 11 siblings and changing nappies etc becauseher r mother couldnt take care of them point is a 3 year old is NOT able to look after themselves they have no idea about danger r IE matches gas stoves cars swimming pools knives etc!!! emotionally a 3 year old is not capible either

Fern wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

So we should take children from parents who make mistakes (like my neighbour - who is one of most most caring people you could ever meet, but suffered a brief lack of concentration, due to a variety of other pressures on her) and put them where? Into care? With all the other countless children whose parents have blipped (like my neighbour) Really?

There isn't much chance of my gaining any ground that the McCann twins should stay with their parents then is there?

Soley based on the videos, the children appear happy and well looked after however what I do find disturbing is not only could the McCanns not see the danger of their actions in leaving the children alone for so long but to also cast aside the fears of Madeleine when she was crying on the Tues evening.

It appears to be a case of preservation of their 'needs' first and that is something quite indicative of the events of the evening Thur 3rd May, which in my opinion became a case of self preservation over and above everything else.

It is disturbing. No question about it. But sadly all too common and not, in my opinion, enough to uproot the two remaining children from parents and a home that they know and love.

I don't know what you mean by 'preservation of their 'needs'' though. I'm not entirely sure they were honest about how often they checked on the children - is that what you mean?

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

Carly, would you have minded if the authorities had placed you in care on the basis that your parents failed in their duty to look after you properly on holiday. Genuine question?

of course i would have minded but like claudia said i was 11 not almost 4 theres a huge diffrence between 11 and 4 !!!! when my mum was a kid at 11 she was running a house and looking after her 11 siblings and changing nappies etc becauseher r mother couldnt take care of them point is a 3 year old is NOT able to look after themselves they have no idea about danger r IE matches gas stoves cars swimming pools knives etc!!! emotionally a 3 year old is not capible either

I agree with you. Three is a ridiculous age to leave a child alone with two even younger children. Still, do you think Sean and Amelie should be taken into care?

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

And you weren't 4. When I was 11 I helped my mother take care of my terminally ill aunt. It taught me many important things. It taught me that family is everything and that love is only love if you are willing to make sacrifices for the people you say you love. Otherwise, it's just words.

there are children caring for their sick parents in this country. While they receive some support, it is a huge responsibility for a child. Maybe in 30 or 40 years time this will be considered to be abuse.

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

Carly, would you have minded if the authorities had placed you in care on the basis that your parents failed in their duty to look after you properly on holiday. Genuine question?

of course i would have minded but like claudia said i was 11 not almost 4 theres a huge diffrence between 11 and 4 !!!! when my mum was a kid at 11 she was running a house and looking after her 11 siblings and changing nappies etc becauseher r mother couldnt take care of them point is a 3 year old is NOT able to look after themselves they have no idea about danger r IE matches gas stoves cars swimming pools knives etc!!! emotionally a 3 year old is not capible either

I agree with you. Three is a ridiculous age to leave a child alone with two even younger children. Still, do you think Sean and Amelie should be taken into care?

i dont know but the mcanns imo eomotionally mess with there heads IE Talking to them about how a monster took maddie etc and the present stuff etc they would have no memory of maddie now imo i dont rememeber anything from under 3 and i dont remember much from until about 6 so imo they should not tell the twins such things or play the game on the monster who took maddie also comments like i bet maddie is giving whoever she is with her tuppenceworth sounds cold!!!

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

and a good question.

Why should it be any different now? It does really concern me because like other kids from my background and generation, I was left to get on with things while my mother grafted to put food on the table. While it wasn't ideal, I would rather be with my mother who loved me than rooted off to some care facility on the say so of someone who didn't fully accept or understand the situation.

I really do get very cross when people make glib comments suggesting they know better based on their own standards when in the real world, they often do not.

Slighty off topic here however in my opinion there should be a review of school holidays.

Fern wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

and a good question.

Why should it be any different now? It does really concern me because like other kids from my background and generation, I was left to get on with things while my mother grafted to put food on the table. While it wasn't ideal, I would rather be with my mother who loved me than rooted off to some care facility on the say so of someone who didn't fully accept or understand the situation.

I really do get very cross when people make glib comments suggesting they know better based on their own standards when in the real world, they often do not.

Slighty off topic here however in my opinion there should be a review of school holidays.

Absolutely.

kitti wrote:

Question no. ???????...Did you, in England, want to hand over guardianship off Madeleine to a relative....I think that's enough evidence for me that Madeleine was NOT wanted, at that time, or even loved, not by her mother anyway.

That question really stuck out amongst the others for me, has this now been actually confirmed ?

If mr amaral has stated it then it's good enough for me.


The fact that Kate McCann has NEVER denied it WASNT true....says it all really.

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:sunflower my parents left me and my twin and younger brother and sister alone ina apartment when me and my twin were 11 because i had/have sucha strong attachment to my mother i cried and cried while they were gone they were called back from tea by reception and were told off very much from the next door couple after hearing me cry they ripped into my parents and rightly so!!!

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

And you weren't 4. When I was 11 I helped my mother take care of my terminally ill aunt. It taught me many important things. It taught me that family is everything and that love is only love if you are willing to make sacrifices for the people you say you love. Otherwise, it's just words.

there are children caring for their sick parents in this country. While they receive some support, it is a huge responsibility for a child. Maybe in 30 or 40 years time this will be considered to be abuse.

Children should not be caring for their sick parents. Children should be going to school and playing with their friends. Maybe that's already abuse. There's a difference between helping and having the sole responsibility. Children have the right to be children. If they aren't given that right, then they are victims of abuse.

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:
no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

Carly, would you have minded if the authorities had placed you in care on the basis that your parents failed in their duty to look after you properly on holiday. Genuine question?

of course i would have minded but like claudia said i was 11 not almost 4 theres a huge diffrence between 11 and 4 !!!! when my mum was a kid at 11 she was running a house and looking after her 11 siblings and changing nappies etc becauseher r mother couldnt take care of them point is a 3 year old is NOT able to look after themselves they have no idea about danger r IE matches gas stoves cars swimming pools knives etc!!! emotionally a 3 year old is not capible either

I agree with you. Three is a ridiculous age to leave a child alone with two even younger children. Still, do you think Sean and Amelie should be taken into care?

i dont know but the mcanns imo eomotionally mess with there heads IE Talking to them about how a monster took maddie etc and the present stuff etc they would have no memory of maddie now imo i dont rememeber anything from under 3 and i dont remember much from until about 6 so imo they should not tell the twins such things or play the game on the monster who took maddie also comments like i bet maddie is giving whoever she is with her tuppenceworth sounds cold!!!

i agree, It does sound cold - but is that really enough?

Perhaps they try to keep Madeleines memory alive by talking about her to the twins - don't forget we only have the media to account for half of what is said and done in this regard. I would be more concerned if they didn't talk to them about their sister and they grew up only 'knowing' what they read on the internet.

Claudia79 wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

And you weren't 4. When I was 11 I helped my mother take care of my terminally ill aunt. It taught me many important things. It taught me that family is everything and that love is only love if you are willing to make sacrifices for the people you say you love. Otherwise, it's just words.

there are children caring for their sick parents in this country. While they receive some support, it is a huge responsibility for a child. Maybe in 30 or 40 years time this will be considered to be abuse.

Children should not be caring for their sick parents. Children should be going to school and playing with their friends. Maybe that's already abuse. There's a difference between helping and having the sole responsibility. Children have the right to be children. If they aren't given that right, then they are victims of abuse.

IMO claudia if they didnt physically harm her ( which im doubtful that they didint) they took maddies right to life away and imo let her leave the world knowing that her parents didnt care enugh to come !!!!!

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:
no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

And you weren't 4. When I was 11 I helped my mother take care of my terminally ill aunt. It taught me many important things. It taught me that family is everything and that love is only love if you are willing to make sacrifices for the people you say you love. Otherwise, it's just words.

there are children caring for their sick parents in this country. While they receive some support, it is a huge responsibility for a child. Maybe in 30 or 40 years time this will be considered to be abuse.

Children should not be caring for their sick parents. Children should be going to school and playing with their friends. Maybe that's already abuse. There's a difference between helping and having the sole responsibility. Children have the right to be children. If they aren't given that right, then they are victims of abuse.

IMO claudia if they didnt physically harm her ( which im doubtful that they didint) they took maddies right to life away and imo let her leave the world knowing that her parents didnt care enugh to come !!!!!

Whatever happened, happened because of their stupidity and selfishness. If there had been a fire and all three children had died, can you imagine what people would be saying?

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

It is disturbing. No question about it. But sadly all too common and not, in my opinion, enough to uproot the two remaining children from parents and a home that they know and love.

I don't know what you mean by 'preservation of their 'needs'' though. I'm not entirely sure they were honest about how often they checked on the children - is that what you mean?

Your view is obviously a view shared by the Social Services - at least for the time being anyway.

Although I agree with your second point, I wasn't refering to that.

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

And you weren't 4. When I was 11 I helped my mother take care of my terminally ill aunt. It taught me many important things. It taught me that family is everything and that love is only love if you are willing to make sacrifices for the people you say you love. Otherwise, it's just words.

there are children caring for their sick parents in this country. While they receive some support, it is a huge responsibility for a child. Maybe in 30 or 40 years time this will be considered to be abuse.

Children should not be caring for their sick parents. Children should be going to school and playing with their friends. Maybe that's already abuse. There's a difference between helping and having the sole responsibility. Children have the right to be children. If they aren't given that right, then they are victims of abuse.

IMO claudia if they didnt physically harm her ( which im doubtful that they didint) they took maddies right to life away and imo let her leave the world knowing that her parents didnt care enugh to come !!!!!

Whatever happened, happened because of their stupidity and selfishness. If there had been a fire and all three children had died, can you imagine what people would be saying?

they would be no doubt saying those people were drs why didnt they know not to leave them alone!!!!!! like people should be now!!!

McCann children clearly were neglected on that holiday. The twins appear to be well cared for now - however I would think the parents would have mended their ways sufficiently since their 2007 holiday, for the very reason that they had a big wake up call - a child taken or dead - and two others at risk of the same, if they carried on neglecting them, either by social services intervening or by these kids too coming to harm.

I think there is a form of neglect that rich people get away with probably because judges and law givers and so on are of that same class, also becaues you cannot put the whole country into foster care where the care is often times as bad as it was in the home. They are going to take children being abused or not fed, sleeping in sheds, left in cars (or on driveways) etc. And often not the first time such a thing happens, with some kids even abuse is condoned repeatedly (see Zahra Baker, CPS was out to their house numerous times before she was "kidnapped" later to be found killed by stepmother and at least neglected by dad.) They just don't have enough places for all the children being emotionally damaged in one way or another which is the saddest thing of all.

The MW resorts appear to cater to the kind of people who don't have enough sense to realize that a listening service is ludicrous and dangerous - times have changed in 30 years but babies haven't. They are not and never were safe being left in a locked room with a listener outside the door not knowing if baby is just not crying, or has stopped breathing, drowned in the toilet, or taken by someone.

Many people would take advantage of that service if it's still offered and I wonder if it is still offered, it never was in PT but I wonder in Greece if MW still offers that. i would imagine not. Roll on the evolution of the human parent.

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

there are children caring for their sick parents in this country. While they receive some support, it is a huge responsibility for a child. Maybe in 30 or 40 years time this will be considered to be abuse.

Children should not be caring for their sick parents. Children should be going to school and playing with their friends. Maybe that's already abuse. There's a difference between helping and having the sole responsibility. Children have the right to be children. If they aren't given that right, then they are victims of abuse.

IMO claudia if they didnt physically harm her ( which im doubtful that they didint) they took maddies right to life away and imo let her leave the world knowing that her parents didnt care enugh to come !!!!!

Whatever happened, happened because of their stupidity and selfishness. If there had been a fire and all three children had died, can you imagine what people would be saying?

they would be no doubt saying those people were drs why didnt they know not to leave them alone!!!!!! like people should be now!!!

I think people in general would be a bit more harsh than that.

Claudia79 wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

sunflower wrote:

How awful for you, they obviously weren't intending to have caused you such distress I would imagine.

no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

And you weren't 4. When I was 11 I helped my mother take care of my terminally ill aunt. It taught me many important things. It taught me that family is everything and that love is only love if you are willing to make sacrifices for the people you say you love. Otherwise, it's just words.

there are children caring for their sick parents in this country. While they receive some support, it is a huge responsibility for a child. Maybe in 30 or 40 years time this will be considered to be abuse.

Children should not be caring for their sick parents. Children should be going to school and playing with their friends. Maybe that's already abuse. There's a difference between helping and having the sole responsibility. Children have the right to be children. If they aren't given that right, then they are victims of abuse.

Well they do care and no it's not sole responsibility, but they play a major role and receive support. Circumstances have taken away their childhood - not abuse.

widowan wrote:McCann children clearly were neglected on that holiday. The twins appear to be well cared for now - however I would think the parents would have mended their ways sufficiently since their 2007 holiday, for the very reason that they had a big wake up call - a child taken or dead - and two others at risk of the same, if they carried on neglecting them, either by social services intervening or by these kids too coming to harm.

I think there is a form of neglect that rich people get away with probably because judges and law givers and so on are of that same class, also becaues you cannot put the whole country into foster care where the care is often times as bad as it was in the home. They are going to take children being abused or not fed, sleeping in sheds, left in cars (or on driveways) etc. And often not the first time such a thing happens, with some kids even abuse is condoned repeatedly (see Zahra Baker, CPS was out to their house numerous times before she was "kidnapped" later to be found killed by stepmother and at least neglected by dad.

The MW resorts appear to cater to the kind of people who don't have enough sense to realize that a listening service is ludicrous and dangerous - times have changed in 30 years but babies haven't. They are not and never were safe being left in a locked room with a listener outside the door not knowing if baby is just not crying, or has stopped breathing, drowned in the toilet, or taken by someone.

Many people would take advantage of that service if it's still offered and I wonder if it is still offered, it never was in PT but I wonder in Greece if MW still offers that. i would imagine not. Roll on the evolution of the human parent.

yes little zarha had a black eye and her wicked stepmum made her say she fell !!! alot of aussies still dont believe her father either!!!

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Children should not be caring for their sick parents. Children should be going to school and playing with their friends. Maybe that's already abuse. There's a difference between helping and having the sole responsibility. Children have the right to be children. If they aren't given that right, then they are victims of abuse.

IMO claudia if they didnt physically harm her ( which im doubtful that they didint) they took maddies right to life away and imo let her leave the world knowing that her parents didnt care enugh to come !!!!!

Whatever happened, happened because of their stupidity and selfishness. If there had been a fire and all three children had died, can you imagine what people would be saying?

they would be no doubt saying those people were drs why didnt they know not to leave them alone!!!!!! like people should be now!!!

I think people in general would be a bit more harsh than that.

with good reason too!!! so again whyy do so many gullible people believe what the mcanns did is right?

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Mollyonthecloud wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:
no they didnt but the key factor is though being told of about it etc and being highly embarrassed they never did it again and they only did it once in my life so they learnt not to do it but the mcanns didnt!!!!!

And you weren't 4. When I was 11 I helped my mother take care of my terminally ill aunt. It taught me many important things. It taught me that family is everything and that love is only love if you are willing to make sacrifices for the people you say you love. Otherwise, it's just words.

there are children caring for their sick parents in this country. While they receive some support, it is a huge responsibility for a child. Maybe in 30 or 40 years time this will be considered to be abuse.

Children should not be caring for their sick parents. Children should be going to school and playing with their friends. Maybe that's already abuse. There's a difference between helping and having the sole responsibility. Children have the right to be children. If they aren't given that right, then they are victims of abuse.

Well they do care and no it's not sole responsibility, but they play a major role and receive support. Circumstances have taken away their childhood - not abuse.

That's why we pay taxes. So circumstances do not make children little adults. Children should not be caring for sick parents. If they do, then the entity we pay our taxes to is to blame. Instead of wasting money with new cars, expensive holidays and other obscene things, they should be making sure children are being children. And yes, if children are not allowed to be children, that is abuse in my book.
Isn't it abuse for 6 year olds to be working so they can help their parents feed the family? The circumstances force thousands children to work like adults. It's still abuse.

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Justiceforallkids wrote:
IMO claudia if they didnt physically harm her ( which im doubtful that they didint) they took maddies right to life away and imo let her leave the world knowing that her parents didnt care enugh to come !!!!!

Whatever happened, happened because of their stupidity and selfishness. If there had been a fire and all three children had died, can you imagine what people would be saying?

they would be no doubt saying those people were drs why didnt they know not to leave them alone!!!!!! like people should be now!!!

I think people in general would be a bit more harsh than that.

with good reason too!!! so again whyy do so many gullible people believe what the mcanns did is right?

Because they do/have done the same thing and feel guilty because they know it could have happened to them? Because they are simply irresponsible? Who knows?