Re: Kate was prescribed antipsychotic drugs?

Loveday Thu 10 Nov - 12:02

I have never seen anything before about Kate having Asperger's. I have to say I really don't believe this. Certainly not without proof.

**AnnaEsse** Thu 10 Nov - 12:19

Loveday wrote:I have never seen anything before about Kate having Asperger's. I have to say I really don't believe this. Certainly not without proof.

I agree, Loveday. I haven't seen anything reliable that Kate has Asperger's. It wouldn't actually surprise me if it were to be true. That early video, where she is appealing for Madeleine's safe return, where she just makes a letter box of her mouth as an expression of emotion, is almost scary in its seeming lack of real emotion. her body language and facial expressions are often incongruent with the emotion she is attempting to express. This may be because she is trying to express what she thinks is the appropriate response of a mother whose child has been abducted.

If Madeleine was abducted and Kate McCann truly believes that her child is in the hands of a paedophile, then her responses could be classified as those of someone with Asperger's.

kathybelle Thu 10 Nov - 20:13

AnnaEsse wrote:
Loveday wrote:I have never seen anything before about Kate having Asperger's. I have to say I really don't believe this. Certainly not without proof.

I agree, Loveday. I haven't seen anything reliable that Kate has Asperger's. It wouldn't actually surprise me if it were to be true. That early video, where she is appealing for Madeleine's safe return, where she just makes a letter box of her mouth as an expression of emotion, is almost scary in its seeming lack of real emotion. her body language and facial expressions are often incongruent with the emotion she is attempting to express. This may be because she is trying to express what she thinks is the appropriate response of a mother whose child has been abducted.

If Madeleine was abducted and Kate McCann truly believes that her child is in the hands of a paedophile, then her responses could be classified as those of someone with Asperger's.

To be honest, I don't care whether anyone believes me or not. I know what I heard the BBC World News reporter say and in my opinion, he must have been given information regarding Kate McCann suffering from Asperger Syndrome, for him to repeat it in the BBC World News bulletin. I know newspapers print lies or should I say bend the truth to sell newspapers, but I am fairly sure that a BBC news reporter, wouldn't make up that statment. What would be the point? He would only land himself in serious trouble and be at risk of a law suit from the McCanns.

I know nothing about Asperger Syndrome, but from what I have seen of Kate McCann's body language and the things she has said in her interviews, I would say she definitely has mental issues.

I defy anyone to read page 129 of Kate McCann's book Madeleine and not be horrified by the paragraph where she says how she has awful pictures of Madeleine's perfect little genitals being torn apart. Kate McCann previously said that while she believes Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, she believes she is still alive. In one of her interviews that she gave to promote this book, she said she hoped that wherever Madeleine is, she would be allowed to read this book. That is not rational thinking of a woman whose child is missing, even if the child is missing because she and her husband, failed to take proper care of her.

Kate McCann admitted on television that she and her husband never physically searched for Madeleine, yet in her book she says that she and her husband were the only ones out looking for Madeleine, on the night she disappeared. She either had a mental block or she thinks that people have forgotten that the police, the locals, the holidaymakers and the staff of Warner's were all out looking for Madeleine on the night she disappeared. In fact the locals stayed off work for more than a week to help the police search for Madeleine and the holidaymakers also searched for Madeleine, in the days following the night Madeleine disappeared.

The more I listen to Kate McCann, the more I believe she should not be left in charge of her other two children and that goes for her bad tempered husband. He has lost his temper more than once, when he has been asked perfectly reasonable questions about Madeleine's disappearance that he doesn't want to answer.

kathybelle Thu 10 Nov - 20:26

kitti wrote:Doctors can self prescribe , theirs nothing to stop them doing so.

Whether KM was I don't know but they definitely can .

I bet their are a few docs who are addicted to drugs Off some sort...

Harold Shipman, the doctor who murdered all those patients in Hyde, Cheshire, was a drug addict. He spent time in rehab in 1975, because he was addicted to the drug Demerol.

Wintabells Fri 11 Nov - 0:33

Dimsie wrote:
Wintabells wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:

Very hard to see the names of these drugs, but in one of the photos, it could be Pramipexole (for Parkinson's) and the one to the left of it could be Apomorphine or a word very like it...also for Parkinson's. The chemist appears to be the same as the tablets shown on the earlier link I posted from an image/video on Jill Haverns forum, ie. McCann Pharmacist in Liverpool.

edited to add - in the first pic on the right, could they be 'Stalevo'? these are brown oval-shaped tablets, also for Parkinson's.
Doesn't Kate's father suffer from Parkinson's? If the drugs are the ones you mention then these are probably his tablets. I know Parkinson's sufferers often have to take quite a lot of medication to keep their symptoms under control. I feel sorry for Brian Healy - no matter what happened to Madeleine, the loss of his granddaughter and the subsequent stress won't have helped his condition.

Hi Dimsie - Yes, that's what I'm saying...these packets of drugs may well belong to Brian Healy, and certainly have the name and address of a chemist based in Liverpool on them (McCann is a common enough name, I think, especially in a region which has many people of Celtic origin living in it). Since the Healys live in Liverpool and Brian H suffers from Parkinson's disease, I would think that if these drugs are those mentioned (Pramipexole, Apomorphine and Stalevo) they were left in Portugal after a visit by Kate's parents.

Wintabells Fri 11 Nov - 1:02

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3667-kate-and-gerry-mccann-the-books-found-in-their-apartment-and-the-search-by-british-sniffer-dogs-eddie-and-keela

Ok, if you click this link, in the first video (originally from SOS Madeleine site) you can clearly see the medications as follows at 8.17 onwards.
Amantadine
Pramipexole
Stalevo

all in the name of Brian Healy, dispensed in Liverpool, some dated 19/5/07.

On another note, why are there 2 cuddlecats? one on the floor and the other in the cupboard under the sink?

kathybelle Fri 11 Nov - 10:09

Wintabells wrote:http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3667-kate-and-gerry-mccann-the-books-found-in-their-apartment-and-the-search-by-british-sniffer-dogs-eddie-and-keela

Ok, if you click this link, in the first video (originally from SOS Madeleine site) you can clearly see the medications as follows at 8.17 onwards.
Amantadine
Pramipexole
Stalevo

all in the name of Brian Healy, dispensed in Liverpool, some dated 19/5/07.

On another note, why are there 2 cuddlecats? one on the floor and the other in the cupboard under the sink?

On the www.mccannfiles.com website, there are photographs of the inside of the McCanns Praia da Luz apartment (5a) that were taken by the PJ photographers at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. There is a box of tablets on the table in the McCanns bedroom, these tablets could not have belonged to Brian Healey, because he didn't accompany his wife when she made her first visit to Praia da Luz, because he was very ill.

According to the BBC World News reporter, Kate McCann was asked if she had given her own medication to Madeleine, instead of Madeleine's own medication. I wonder what medication Madeleine was on and if it was something to do with issues regarding the coloboma and if she was on medication, I wonder why the McCanns didn't say to the "abductor" that Madeleine needed to take this medication.

Maybe there was no abductor and this was the reason the McCanns never mentioned her medication and left the searching of Madeleine to the police the locals the holiday makers and the staff of Warner's. Maybe Goncalo Amaral was right, when he said Madeleine came to harm in the McCanns apartment and the McCanns tried to cover up what happened to her.

I for one don't believe Madeleine was abducted. The McCanns insisted the apartment was trashed when Kate McCann did her check on Madeleine. The apartment was trashed, but not by an abductor it was trashed by the McCanns and their friends. The shutter the McCanns said was jemmied, was not jemmied it was intact. Now why would the McCanns make up stories like this, if Madeleine had either been abducted or walked out of the apartment, to go and look for her parents. The McCanns told many lies to the PJ, why would they feel the need to lie, if they had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance

Kate McCann still insists that Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, but is alive and well. I am fairly sure that if a child of Madeleine's tender years, was taken by a paedophile, she would have been dead within a very short time. If Madeleine was taken, why is Kate McCann so sure she was taken by a paedophile? If Madeleine was taken, she could have been taken by someone who sold her to a childless couple. Unless Kate McCann is speaking the truth when she says Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, maybe the paedophile is someone within the McCanns circle of friends. Katherine Gaspar made allegations about a friend of the McCanns who made paedophilia gestures towards Madeleine, to Madeleine's father. This friend and the McCanns, have stayed strangely quiet, even after the allegation was printed in English by a European newspaper. They could have sued the owner of the newspaper for printing this very serious allegation about their friend and Gerry McCann and put the money into the (cough cough) fund, which would eventually have found its way into the pockets of the McCanns and their wider family.

This brings me to another point. If Madeleine is genuinely missing, why are the McCanns and their wider family, using the fund money to assist their finances? I understand that they would need the money if they were searching for Madeleine, because that is what the money was donated for, but the McCanns and their wider family have never searched for Madeleine since she disappeared and they are not about to search for her any time soon.

Which brings me to another point. If Madeleine is genuinely missing, why have the McCanns not mentioned the reward of around £2.5m that was pledged within hours of Madeleine's disappearance, by two newspaper groups, a couple of footballers, celebrities and business people, on their website or when they have made pleas for Madeleine's safe return?

Finally why did Kate McCann feel the need to take cuddlecat with her, when she examined those 6 bodies, in the 1½ days she worked in the week before she left for her holidays? Unless this is another of the lies Kate and Gerry McCann told in their quest to save their own skins.

Wintabells Fri 11 Nov - 15:01

kathybelle wrote:
On the www.mccannfiles.com website, there are photographs of the inside of the McCanns Praia da Luz apartment (5a) that were taken by the PJ photographers at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. There is a box of tablets on the table in the McCanns bedroom, these tablets could not have belonged to Brian Healey, because he didn't accompany his wife when she made her first visit to Praia da Luz, because he was very ill.

Hi Kathybelle

I'm not sure you're right about this. I've seen a photo of Brian Healy along with his wife and Aunty Nora, taken in Portugal soon after the 'disappearance' though I haven't got any idea of the date, nor a link. The tablets have the date of dispensing as 19.05.07 if that helps in any way.

Wintabells Fri 11 Nov - 15:09

4th May 2007 Kate's parents, Susan and Brian Healy, arrive on a flight from Liverpool with Michael Wright, Kate McCanns' brother-in-law.

8th May 2007 Susan and Brian Healy (Kate's parents) talk to Sky News following their return to the UK Watch video here - (*Note: The Sky News video link doesn't work for this video. You need to enter 'Susan Healy' into the video search box and click on the video '09 May 2007')

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id9.html

So, I would speculate that Kate's parents visited almost immediately and then returned to the UK, and planned to go back to Portugal later. The medications could well have been sent over to Portugal for Kate's dad and not used because he didn't go in the end, or something....

Wintabells Fri 11 Nov - 15:21

Mr Healy flew to Portugal yesterday to lend support to his daughter Kate, 39, who is a Leicester GP, and son-in-law Gerry, 38, a consultant cardiologist at the city's Glenfield Hospital. Sandra Laville and Dale Fuchs in Faro
Saturday May 5 2007

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id31.html

The date on the tablets suggests Brian Healy renewed his prescription a couple of weeks later and he or his tablets, or both, were present in the McCanns apartment at some point after 19th May 2007.

Personally, I don't find that strange at all. I have my dad's blood pressure machine in my drawer, yet he lives 250 miles away. What I'm interested in hearing about is any evidence of medication that has no explanation, not medication that does.

Wintabells Fri 11 Nov - 15:38

kathybelle wrote:

Hi Kathybelle

If you don't mind, I've made some comments on your post in red below:

On the www.mccannfiles.com website, there are photographs of the inside of the McCanns Praia da Luz apartment (5a) that were taken by the PJ photographers at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. There is a box of tablets on the table in the McCanns bedroom, these tablets could not have belonged to Brian Healey, because he didn't accompany his wife when she made her first visit to Praia da Luz, because he was very ill. I've responded to this already as you'll have seen.

According to the BBC World News reporter, Kate McCann was asked if she had given her own medication to Madeleine, instead of Madeleine's own medication. I wonder what medication Madeleine was on and if it was something to do with issues regarding the coloboma and if she was on medication, I wonder why the McCanns didn't say to the "abductor" that Madeleine needed to take this medication. The term 'medication' in this question could have referred to 'any' medication Madeleine may have been on, or indeed something along the lines of Calpol, for example.

Maybe there was no abductor and this was the reason the McCanns never mentioned her medication and left the searching of Madeleine to the police the locals the holiday makers and the staff of Warner's. Maybe Goncalo Amaral was right, when he said Madeleine came to harm in the McCanns apartment and the McCanns tried to cover up what happened to her. Completely agree with you.

I for one don't believe Madeleine was abducted. Nor I

The McCanns insisted the apartment was trashed when Kate McCann did her check on Madeleine. The apartment was trashed, but not by an abductor it was trashed by the McCanns and their friends. The shutter the McCanns said was jemmied, was not jemmied it was intact. Now why would the McCanns make up stories like this, if Madeleine had either been abducted or walked out of the apartment, to go and look for her parents. The McCanns told many lies to the PJ, why would they feel the need to lie, if they had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance

Kate McCann still insists that Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, but is alive and well. I am fairly sure that if a child of Madeleine's tender years, was taken by a paedophile, she would have been dead within a very short time. If Madeleine was taken, why is Kate McCann so sure she was taken by a paedophile? If Madeleine was taken, she could have been taken by someone who sold her to a childless couple. Unless Kate McCann is speaking the truth when she says Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, maybe the paedophile is someone within the McCanns circle of friends. Katherine Gaspar made allegations about a friend of the McCanns who made paedophilia gestures towards Madeleine, to Madeleine's father. I can't say the gesture was a gesture of paedophilia...from what has been described. It is a vulgar and sexual gesture, I agree, but the very same gesture was made, for example, by a young man on Big Brother recently, as a kind of joke about being 'hot'.

This friend and the McCanns, have stayed strangely quiet, even after the allegation was printed in English by a European newspaper. They could have sued the owner of the newspaper for printing this very serious allegation about their friend and Gerry McCann and put the money into the (cough cough) fund, which would eventually have found its way into the pockets of the McCanns and their wider family. The fact that someone hasn't refuted an allegation doesn't necessarily make it true. Sometimes, ignoring defamation is more effective than challenging it.

This brings me to another point. If Madeleine is genuinely missing, why are the McCanns and their wider family, using the fund money to assist their finances? As far as we know, the fund's objects include that it is to support the McCann family. The fund was used to make two mortgage payments while they weren't able to earn a living. I'm not saying this is right, but it doesn't contravene the terms of the Missing Madeleine fund.

I understand that they would need the money if they were searching for Madeleine, because that is what the money was donated for, but the McCanns and their wider family have never searched for Madeleine since she disappeared and they are not about to search for her any time soon.

Which brings me to another point. If Madeleine is genuinely missing, why have the McCanns not mentioned the reward of around £2.5m that was pledged within hours of Madeleine's disappearance, by two newspaper groups, a couple of footballers, celebrities and business people, on their website or when they have made pleas for Madeleine's safe return?

Finally why did Kate McCann feel the need to take cuddlecat with her, when she examined those 6 bodies, in the 1½ days she worked in the week before she left for her holidays? Unless this is another of the lies Kate and Gerry McCann told in their quest to save their own skins. Do you have any kind of link that confirms that Kate actually said that she examined 6 bodies and that she had cuddle-cat in tow, please?

Loopdaloop Sun 13 Nov - 2:50

AnnaEsse wrote:
If Madeleine was abducted and Kate McCann truly believes that her child is in the hands of a paedophile, then her responses could be classified as those of someone with Asperger's.

It couldn't. The idea that people with Asperger's don't show emotions or don't understand emotions or even appear cold is a complete and utter myth.

Any incongruence in display of emotion with her was due to the lying, deception and manipulation of the truth. The woman lost her child (when the child was sick no less), they then found the body, realised he worst about what toxicology might find and also potential issues of neglect as well as media interest and then conspired to dispose of the body, she now walks around with no where to grieve for the loss. Every day she has to keep up this charade.

She is a fucking liar.

No more excuses for the woman. They've bitten off more than they can chew and they will get bitten in the arse for it.
I'm hoping Pat Brown will be their undoing as she has the profile, connections and resources to impact upon their story.

Guest Sun 13 Nov - 7:38

Loopdeloop is right. I work with autistic children and children with Aspergers and yes, they can and do show emotion. In fact that is one of the aspects we have to study in our research.

FWIW I don't believe that Kate has Aspergers; NPD perhaps.

**AnnaEsse** Sun 13 Nov - 9:04

Loopdaloop wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
If Madeleine was abducted and Kate McCann truly believes that her child is in the hands of a paedophile, then her responses could be classified as those of someone with Asperger's.

It couldn't. The idea that people with Asperger's don't show emotions or don't understand emotions or even appear cold is a complete and utter myth.

Any incongruence in display of emotion with her was due to the lying, deception and manipulation of the truth. The woman lost her child (when the child was sick no less), they then found the body, realised he worst about what toxicology might find and also potential issues of neglect as well as media interest and then conspired to dispose of the body, she now walks around with no where to grieve for the loss. Every day she has to keep up this charade.

She is a fucking liar.

No more excuses for the woman. They've bitten off more than they can chew and they will get bitten in the arse for it.
I'm hoping Pat Brown will be their undoing as she has the profile, connections and resources to impact upon their story.

I didn't intend to imply that people with Asperger's don't show emotions, simply that incongruity can be observed and is one of the signs that a qualified observer would look for. That means nothing on its own, but can be part of the tapestry of signs that could contribute to a diagnosis. Incongruity, as you say, can also be a sign of lying, though in traditional Chinese medicine, the diagnostic model includes looking for incongruity of expression between words and body language and words and the emotion, which might be appropriate to the situation being described.

duncanmac Sun 13 Nov - 16:25

Do you have any kind of link that confirms that Kate actually said that she examined 6 bodies and that she had cuddle-cat in tow, please?

[/quote][/quote]
[quote]

There is no link, never has been, never will be. KM and the 6 bodies has always been a forum myth, why poster keep bringing it up I will never know.

Guest Sun 13 Nov - 17:21

duncanmac wrote:

Do you have any kind of link that confirms that Kate actually said that she examined 6 bodies and that she had cuddle-cat in tow, please?

[/quote]

There is no link, never has been, never will be. KM and the 6 bodies has always been a forum myth, why poster keep bringing it up I will never know.

It was actually Kate's mother Susan Healy who said it, and it was part of a newspaper interview. It was not a forum myth. I probably have it saved on a hard drive somewhere, so I will try and find it again. But I can assure you that it was a verbatim quote from Susan Healy.

**AnnaEsse** Sun 13 Nov - 17:32

Iris wrote:
duncanmac wrote:

Do you have any kind of link that confirms that Kate actually said that she examined 6 bodies and that she had cuddle-cat in tow, please?

There is no link, never has been, never will be. KM and the 6 bodies has always been a forum myth, why poster keep bringing it up I will never know.

It was actually Kate's mother Susan Healy who said it, and it was part of a newspaper interview. It was not a forum myth. I probably have it saved on a hard drive somewhere, so I will try and find it again. But I can assure you that it was a verbatim quote from Susan Healy.[/quote]

Iris, when I looked for this earlier, on Google, there were thousands and thousands of entries. So many referred to a 'family member,' member having said that about the 6 bodies that even in the absence of an article in a mainstream media outlet, I am inclined to believe that it's not forum myth. Other news items have disappeared, like the Daily Mail article, which I recall very clearly, where a 'source close to the McCanns,' was quoted as speaking for Kate and Gerry and saying "Find the body and prove we killed her." So many of the internet sources mention a family member stating the idea of the 6 bodies that it just doesn't seem to have come from nowhere.

Guest Sun 13 Nov - 17:51

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id160.html article 147, transcript of an article in the Sun (long since whooshed). But that's not the original one. I will keep looking.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id114.html - discussed at length on CNN.

kathybelle Sun 13 Nov - 18:50

duncanmac wrote:

Do you have any kind of link that confirms that Kate actually said that she examined 6 bodies and that she had cuddle-cat in tow, please?

[/quote]

There is no link, never has been, never will be. KM and the 6 bodies has always been a forum myth, why poster keep bringing it up I will never know.

"Duncanmac"It is very disrespectful of you to say it is a forum myth, because you are implying that posters, including myself, had made this information up. I had a link where Kate McCann actually said that she had taken CuddleCat to work with her. It was when she was explaining the cadaver scent on her clothing and the soft toy, she said she had taken cuddlecat with her when she examined those 6 bodies. Also members of Kate McCann's family said she examined those 6 bodies and cuddle cat was with her at the time. For what it's worth I don't believe the cadaver scent on Kate McCanns clothing and the soft toy came from her examining 6 bodies, because she never explained why there was cadaver scent on two items of Madeleine's clothing and none on her husband's or the twins clothing.

Regarding the link I had where Kate McCann says she examined those 6 bodies and took the soft toy with her, my link disappeared when I bought a new computer, the only information I can find regarding Kate McCann examining 6 bodies before she went on holiday, is on this link, which is rather a long link. There is nothing in the information that says Kate McCann took the soft toy to work with her.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/1651651/Kate-and-Gerry-McCann-wrongly-named-as-suspects-over-maddie-disappearance-by-Portuguese-police-after-sniffer-dog-evidence.html?print=yes

I don't normally take any notice of tabloid newspapers, because they are known for bending the truth. I have only put this link on here, so I can prove to you that the information regarding Kate McCann's examination of 6 bodies was no forum myth.

kathybelle Sun 13 Nov - 19:09

Wintabells wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
On the www.mccannfiles.com website, there are photographs of the inside of the McCanns Praia da Luz apartment (5a) that were taken by the PJ photographers at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. There is a box of tablets on the table in the McCanns bedroom, these tablets could not have belonged to Brian Healey, because he didn't accompany his wife when she made her first visit to Praia da Luz, because he was very ill.

Hi Kathybelle

I'm not sure you're right about this. I've seen a photo of Brian Healy along with his wife and Aunty Nora, taken in Portugal soon after the 'disappearance' though I haven't got any idea of the date, nor a link. The tablets have the date of dispensing as 19.05.07 if that helps in any way.

Hi Wintabells, I can only say what I read in a news report on the 'net and that was Mrs Healey accompanied the Merseyside Priest to Praia da Luz a couple of days after Madeleine disappeared. The report also said that Mr Healey who suffers from Parkinson's disease, was too sick to travel. Another report said that Mr Healey was very ill and Mrs Healey and the Priest, had been taken to the airport by a police car. Madeleine disappeared on the 3rd of May 2007 and I presume Mrs Healey and the Merseyside Priest would have arrived in Praia da Luz on or around the 5th of May.

The tablets in the name of Brian Healey, were photographed in the apartment the McCanns moved into after Madeleine disappeared, which was the apartment Brian Healey visited with his wife, which must have been after the 19th of May, which was the day his tablets were dispensed on.

kathybelle Sun 13 Nov - 19:44

Wintabells wrote:
kathybelle wrote:

Hi Kathybelle

If you don't mind, I've made some comments on your post in red below:

On the www.mccannfiles.com website, there are photographs of the inside of the McCanns Praia da Luz apartment (5a) that were taken by the PJ photographers at the time of Madeleine's disappearance. There is a box of tablets on the table in the McCanns bedroom, these tablets could not have belonged to Brian Healey, because he didn't accompany his wife when she made her first visit to Praia da Luz, because he was very ill. I've responded to this already as you'll have seen.

According to the BBC World News reporter, Kate McCann was asked if she had given her own medication to Madeleine, instead of Madeleine's own medication. I wonder what medication Madeleine was on and if it was something to do with issues regarding the coloboma and if she was on medication, I wonder why the McCanns didn't say to the "abductor" that Madeleine needed to take this medication. The term 'medication' in this question could have referred to 'any' medication Madeleine may have been on, or indeed something along the lines of Calpol, for example.

Maybe there was no abductor and this was the reason the McCanns never mentioned her medication and left the searching of Madeleine to the police the locals the holiday makers and the staff of Warner's. Maybe Goncalo Amaral was right, when he said Madeleine came to harm in the McCanns apartment and the McCanns tried to cover up what happened to her. Completely agree with you.

I for one don't believe Madeleine was abducted. Nor I

The McCanns insisted the apartment was trashed when Kate McCann did her check on Madeleine. The apartment was trashed, but not by an abductor it was trashed by the McCanns and their friends. The shutter the McCanns said was jemmied, was not jemmied it was intact. Now why would the McCanns make up stories like this, if Madeleine had either been abducted or walked out of the apartment, to go and look for her parents. The McCanns told many lies to the PJ, why would they feel the need to lie, if they had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance

Kate McCann still insists that Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, but is alive and well. I am fairly sure that if a child of Madeleine's tender years, was taken by a paedophile, she would have been dead within a very short time. If Madeleine was taken, why is Kate McCann so sure she was taken by a paedophile? If Madeleine was taken, she could have been taken by someone who sold her to a childless couple. Unless Kate McCann is speaking the truth when she says Madeleine was taken by a paedophile, maybe the paedophile is someone within the McCanns circle of friends. Katherine Gaspar made allegations about a friend of the McCanns who made paedophilia gestures towards Madeleine, to Madeleine's father. I can't say the gesture was a gesture of paedophilia...from what has been described. It is a vulgar and sexual gesture, I agree, but the very same gesture was made, for example, by a young man on Big Brother recently, as a kind of joke about being 'hot'.

This friend and the McCanns, have stayed strangely quiet, even after the allegation was printed in English by a European newspaper. They could have sued the owner of the newspaper for printing this very serious allegation about their friend and Gerry McCann and put the money into the (cough cough) fund, which would eventually have found its way into the pockets of the McCanns and their wider family. The fact that someone hasn't refuted an allegation doesn't necessarily make it true. Sometimes, ignoring defamation is more effective than challenging it.

This brings me to another point. If Madeleine is genuinely missing, why are the McCanns and their wider family, using the fund money to assist their finances? As far as we know, the fund's objects include that it is to support the McCann family. The fund was used to make two mortgage payments while they weren't able to earn a living. I'm not saying this is right, but it doesn't contravene the terms of the Missing Madeleine fund.

I understand that they would need the money if they were searching for Madeleine, because that is what the money was donated for, but the McCanns and their wider family have never searched for Madeleine since she disappeared and they are not about to search for her any time soon.

Which brings me to another point. If Madeleine is genuinely missing, why have the McCanns not mentioned the reward of around £2.5m that was pledged within hours of Madeleine's disappearance, by two newspaper groups, a couple of footballers, celebrities and business people, on their website or when they have made pleas for Madeleine's safe return?

Finally why did Kate McCann feel the need to take cuddlecat with her, when she examined those 6 bodies, in the 1½ days she worked in the week before she left for her holidays? Unless this is another of the lies Kate and Gerry McCann told in their quest to save their own skins. Do you have any kind of link that confirms that Kate actually said that she examined 6 bodies and that she had cuddle-cat in tow, please?

Hi Wintabells, I am going to answer the points you have raised regarding my post. I have answered the post regarding Brian and Susan Healey's visit to Praia da Luz, on another post. I have also put a link to a newspaper report, regarding Kate McCann's so called examination of 6 bodies, on another post in reply to another poster

Regarding the question where the BBC World News reporter said that Kate McCann was asked if she had given her own medication to Madeleine, instead of Madeleine's own medication. You say that the medication in question could have been Calpol. Calpol was a banned substance in Portugal and many other European countries at the time of Madeleine's disappearance and for all I know it may still be banned in Portugal. Also the McCanns were asked in a television interview, if they gave their children Calpol and they said no. This contradicted statements by Brian Healey and Philomena McCann, who both said that Kate and Gerry McCann gave their children Calpol.

I guess we will have to differ on the gestures that David Payne made about Madeleine. I know one thing if anyone had made that kind of a gesture to me and or my husband about either one of my two children, they would have ended up with a blooded nose. I still believe that Gerry McCann and David Payne, would have sued the Gaspars and the newspaper group that owned the newspaper that printed the story, if it wasn't true.

Regarding the fund I said in my post that the McCanns were entitled to use the money in their searches for Madeleine, but they have never searched for Madeleine. When they took the 2months mortgage payments out of the fund, they were made to put that money back. They had only been in Praia da Luz a matter of weeks, when they used that money and with a combined net income of around 100k per year, if they couldn't afford to pay their mortgage in that short time, their finances must have been in dire straits.

The terms of the fund now say that the McCanns can use the money to assist their finances and according to Clarence Mitchell, he said the McCanns can use the fund money in any way they see fit and their wider family can also use the fund money, which in my opinion is appalling. You can hear Clarence Mitchell speaking about the fund money, in a You Tube video called "Clarence Mitchell Spinning for the McCanns and Jane Tanner." Below is the link to the video.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFZy2f2yQJA

If the link doesn't open, and you wish to view the video, just go to You Tube page and type the title of the video in their search box.

Wintabells Sun 13 Nov - 20:44

kathybelle wrote:

"Duncanmac"It is very disrespectful of you to say it is a forum myth, because you are implying that posters, including myself, had made this information up.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/1651651/Kate-and-Gerry-McCann-wrongly-named-as-suspects-over-maddie-disappearance-by-Portuguese-police-after-sniffer-dog-evidence.html?print=yes

Hi Kathybelle. To call something a forum myth doesn't necessarily imply any poster who refers to the matter is making the information up.... not at all... We have to accept that lots of things have been said about this case which cannot be backed up by hard evidence, including things said by the McCanns themselves. It just requires that one thing is said, for someone to write about it on the internet and the next thing you know it becomes 'fact'. This is how a forum myth evolves. The same thing happened with the fridge episode. Loads of people say that Gerry wrote about dumping a broken fridge when they were in Portugal, but no-one can find a link to this anywhere at all. The same applies to Gerry 'fiddling with the shutters' (something I myself overheard in an early TV report) - there is no evidence of anyone having actually said that about Gerry anywhere on the internet...so it has to be put in the 'forum myth' pile, I'm afraid.

In the article quoted above, the Sun claims 'Kate insisted she attended 6 dead bodies before she went on holiday' (or words to that effect) but so far, no-one has come up with a direct quote for this. A family friend usually means the Pink one... and we all know he can say whatever he feels like. Unless it can be demonstrated that Kate has said these words herself, 'I attended 6 dead bodies before I went on holiday' and/or 'I took Cuddle-cat with me to attend 6 dead bodies before I went on holiday' we have to be wary of referring to this as fact. The fact that this claim is all over the internet does make it seem she may well have said it, I agree, but none of us seem to be able to find anything other than hearsay on this.

**AnnaEsse** Sun 13 Nov - 20:45

kathybelle wrote:
duncanmac wrote:

Do you have any kind of link that confirms that Kate actually said that she examined 6 bodies and that she had cuddle-cat in tow, please?

There is no link, never has been, never will be. KM and the 6 bodies has always been a forum myth, why poster keep bringing it up I will never know.

"Duncanmac"It is very disrespectful of you to say it is a forum myth, because you are implying that posters, including myself, had made this information up. I had a link where Kate McCann actually said that she had taken CuddleCat to work with her. It was when she was explaining the cadaver scent on her clothing and the soft toy, she said she had taken cuddlecat with her when she examined those 6 bodies. Also members of Kate McCann's family said she examined those 6 bodies and cuddle cat was with her at the time. For what it's worth I don't believe the cadaver scent on Kate McCanns clothing and the soft toy came from her examining 6 bodies, because she never explained why there was cadaver scent on two items of Madeleine's clothing and none on her husband's or the twins clothing.

Regarding the link I had where Kate McCann says she examined those 6 bodies and took the soft toy with her, my link disappeared when I bought a new computer, the only information I can find regarding Kate McCann examining 6 bodies before she went on holiday, is on this link, which is rather a long link. There is nothing in the information that says Kate McCann took the soft toy to work with her.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/maddie/1651651/Kate-and-Gerry-McCann-wrongly-named-as-suspects-over-maddie-disappearance-by-Portuguese-police-after-sniffer-dog-evidence.html?print=yes

I don't normally take any notice of tabloid newspapers, because they are known for bending the truth. I have only put this link on here, so I can prove to you that the information regarding Kate McCann's examination of 6 bodies was no forum myth.

[/quote]

Thanks kathybelle, I'll save that link for next time someone suggests that this is a forum myth, as happens from time to time. From that article you have linked to:

The dogs also sniffed items of clothing — and the film shows Eddie again picking up a scent on some of Kate's.

The family GP has insisted she came into contact with at least SIX dead bodies before going on holiday with her husband and three children.

Note "at least SIX dead bodies"! I wonder why the Sun decided to put that SIX in capitals!!

Wintabells Sun 13 Nov - 21:08

kathybelle wrote:

Regarding the question where the BBC World News reporter said that Kate McCann was asked if she had given her own medication to Madeleine, instead of Madeleine's own medication. You say that the medication in question could have been Calpol. Calpol was a banned substance in Portugal and many other European countries at the time of Madeleine's disappearance and for all I know it may still be banned in Portugal. Also the McCanns were asked in a television interview, if they gave their children Calpol and they said no. This contradicted statements by Brian Healey and Philomena McCann, who both said that Kate and Gerry McCann gave their children Calpol.

Even if Calpol was banned in Portugal at the time, it wasn't in the UK, so it would be a question of whether there's a law against using a medication which has been legally dispensed in the UK whilst on holiday in a country where it is banned and I don't know the answer to that. I agree that Brian Healy said, in repsonse to a question asked of him, that Calpol would be the only medication used on the McCann children (I saw the interview...poor man was being really pressed on this by the journalist). However, my point was that if Kate was asked if she had perhaps accidentally given her medication to Madeleine, this doesn't necessarily imply that Kate was taking some kind of medication like, for example, sedatives, which was what you were (I think) suggesting in your post. Also, I think...but I can't be sure...Gerry backtracked on the Calpol question a year or so into the case and said in an interview with Sandra F. that Calpol would be the only drug they'd have given to Madeleine.

I guess we will have to differ on the gestures that David Payne made about Madeleine. I know one thing if anyone had made that kind of a gesture to me and or my husband about either one of my two children, they would have ended up with a blooded nose.

Ok, but my response was to your protest that this is a 'paedophilia gesture'. I don't know what a 'paedophilia gesture' is, and if he was looking at Madeleine at the time, I agree, it's completely worrying, but I can't make a link between this gesture and paedophilia. Juvenile and offensive, yes, especially in front of a child, I agree I would also be concerned, but in the same way as someone using foul language or inappropriate conversation.

I still believe that Gerry McCann and David Payne, would have sued the Gaspars and the newspaper group that owned the newspaper that printed the story, if it wasn't true. I understand why you'd think this, but I don't see their silence as proof of guilt.

Regarding the fund I said in my post that the McCanns were entitled to use the money in their searches for Madeleine, but they have never searched for Madeleine. When they took the 2months mortgage payments out of the fund, they were made to put that money back. They had only been in Praia da Luz a matter of weeks, when they used that money and with a combined net income of around 100k per year, if they couldn't afford to pay their mortgage in that short time, their finances must have been in dire straits. Yes, I agree. There's no defence for this.

The terms of the fund now say that the McCanns can use the money to assist their finances and according to Clarence Mitchell, he said the McCanns can use the fund money in any way they see fit and their wider family can also use the fund money, which in my opinion is appalling. Agree. I've never really understood why they needed money in the first place. The PJ's investigation didn't require private funding.

Wintabells Sun 13 Nov - 21:11

kathybelle wrote:

Hi Wintabells, I can only say what I read in a news report on the 'net and that was Mrs Healey accompanied the Merseyside Priest to Praia da Luz a couple of days after Madeleine disappeared. The report also said that Mr Healey who suffers from Parkinson's disease, was too sick to travel. Another report said that Mr Healey was very ill and Mrs Healey and the Priest, had been taken to the airport by a police car. Madeleine disappeared on the 3rd of May 2007 and I presume Mrs Healey and the Merseyside Priest would have arrived in Praia da Luz on or around the 5th of May.

The tablets in the name of Brian Healey, were photographed in the apartment the McCanns moved into after Madeleine disappeared, which was the apartment Brian Healey visited with his wife, which must have been after the 19th of May, which was the day his tablets were dispensed on.

Hi. Sorry, not sure what point you're trying to make here. Do you not accept that these were Brian Healy's tablets, despite them being consistent with tablets prescribed for Parkinson's disease? Even if Brian H didn't go and visit, the tablets have his name on them and they are for his specific illness. Are you suggesting they're for someone else/not for Parkinson's?

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