Re: Was Madeleine Seen During the Holiday?

**HiDeHo** Tue 3 Jan - 21:22

NoStone wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:An afterthought....

As per my post above regarding Rachael 'seeing' Madeleine (regardless of whether it was Tuesday when Madeleine was playing mini tennis or whether it was Thursday.....

Her statement eliminates the possibility that she saw Madeleine Thursday lunchtime by the pool, when she was playing tennis with Jane.She claims to have only seen Kate and Gerry and the last time she saw Madeleine was prior to that.

Her statement 'tells' us, inadvertently, that there was no 'Last Picture' taken of Madeleine by the pool on Thursday lunchtime!

Madeleine wasn't there!

HiDeHo - it is complicated - would it possible to simplify the logic as to why RO's statement means it was not Thursday - if you could flesh that out it might help write the script for your video and how best to make the point?? I know you are excellent at this and the way you put our videos together - but if it would help to bash it around on here a little I am sure we might be able to help you spell it out for the lay person!?? Just a thought!

I appreciate that ....I tend to ramble and I tend to include all sorts of 'confirming' info in the videos which I know can create confusion.

I strive to create videos that are believed and without details to corroborate what I am showing I have a concern that 'the lay person' would just pass it off as 'not proven'. I try to cover all bases in the videos.

Considering there is a lot of discussion about the validity of the Last Photo, and I have never seen it discussed before about Rachael (indirectly) claiming that Madeleine wasn't there, this MAY be a very important video.

Either the photo wasn't taken on Thursday at 2.29pm or Rachael is lying......Why?

**Badboy** Tue 3 Jan - 21:33

tigger wrote:Hi HideHo, to get back to Signora de Silva sighting. I am not sure that that necessarily was Maddie. I was particularly struck by her description of their trainers with the little lights on the sides. I never saw any photographs of Maddie in those trainers, could possibly be in the playground photo, but I'm not convinced that was Maddie anyhow.
It's just that Kate makes so much of Maddie and pink, those pink trainers don't get mentioned, Kate's do. Why?
Because Maddie could not have been wearing those when she lay in bed, therefore the trainers should have been available for the forensics.
She was wearing sandals in the tennis photo, why? When she should be wearing trainers.
I think it was not Maddie, but perhaps one of the other girls.

WHERE ARE THOSE TRAINERS?

**Badboy** Wed 4 Jan - 0:01

LJC wrote:I've not seen this before either: -

McCann Archives

Thursday, May 12, 2011
Nicola Naylor, of Syston,
Hundreds of Leicestershire villagers offer prayers for return of Madeleine

Hundreds of villagers showed their support for the family of missing Madeleine McCann last night at a service held three years after her disappearance.

Prayers were said at an open-air service in Cross Green, in the centre of Rothley, for her return.

Family members read out poems and messages of hope and thanks.

Parents Kate and Gerry were among the crowd of nearly 300 as the vicar of Rothley, the Rev Rob Gladstone, and then Kate's aunt, Janet Kennedy, who organised last night's service, spoke.

A poem by Simon Armitage called The Beacon, written on the 1,000th day since Madeleine went missing, was also read out.

During the poem, Kate and Gerry held one another and bowed their heads, while others in the crowd held hands.

Mrs Kennedy said it has been a comfort to reflect on how "tremendous" the support for her family had been and offered "heartfelt thanks" to everyone present.

She said: "Every day we struggle with the fact she's still not returned home. We have to believe in faith and that something will come of it – even though it gets very hard not to lose heart and stay strong.

"When I meet people they say not a day goes by when they aren't thinking about Madeleine and it's lovely to have that support.

"It's great the people were prepared to turn up in rain, hail or shine to be supportive. It's very inspirational that they were prepared to do that. Although we were praying because of the date, it was also for all missing children around the world.

"It highlights that Kate and Gerry are not the only ones."

Mr Gladstone urged well-wishers to "persevere and not lose faith" in the hope that Madeleine, who went missing from a holiday resort in Praia da Luz, in Portugal, aged three, will return safe.

Among those at the service was family friend Sharon Lawson, of East Goscote, who looked after Madeleine. She said: "We came along to support Kate and Gerry.

"We're still giving our full support and praying for her return."

Another family friend Nicola Naylor, of Syston, said: "I hope she is returned home soon and is being kept safe and well. We're not giving up hope of that."
Posted by SteelMagnolia at 1:10 PM
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Very interesting, another Naylor link.

IS SHE A PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER?

DavidA Wed 4 Jan - 0:08

Very interesting thread, and very interesting point by HiDeHo. There is a lot in this thread to look at and think about.

To add to the various comments before, there are four things that I think support Madeleine not having been in PDL when it was said she was.

1) the lack of photographs (mentioned various times before)

2) the odd and late pool photo

3) the scene on the airport bus with a family (especially Gerry) who looked very unatural and uncomfortable

4) the report that Madeleine was left alone again only 1 or 2 days after having been found crying (I do not think any parent, good or bad, would do this)

Loopdaloop Wed 4 Jan - 3:03

HiDeHo wrote:
NoStone wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:An afterthought....

As per my post above regarding Rachael 'seeing' Madeleine (regardless of whether it was Tuesday when Madeleine was playing mini tennis or whether it was Thursday.....

Her statement eliminates the possibility that she saw Madeleine Thursday lunchtime by the pool, when she was playing tennis with Jane.She claims to have only seen Kate and Gerry and the last time she saw Madeleine was prior to that.

Her statement 'tells' us, inadvertently, that there was no 'Last Picture' taken of Madeleine by the pool on Thursday lunchtime!

Madeleine wasn't there!

HiDeHo - it is complicated - would it possible to simplify the logic as to why RO's statement means it was not Thursday - if you could flesh that out it might help write the script for your video and how best to make the point?? I know you are excellent at this and the way you put our videos together - but if it would help to bash it around on here a little I am sure we might be able to help you spell it out for the lay person!?? Just a thought!

I appreciate that ....I tend to ramble and I tend to include all sorts of 'confirming' info in the videos which I know can create confusion.

I strive to create videos that are believed and without details to corroborate what I am showing I have a concern that 'the lay person' would just pass it off as 'not proven'. I try to cover all bases in the videos.

Considering there is a lot of discussion about the validity of the Last Photo, and I have never seen it discussed before about Rachael (indirectly) claiming that Madeleine wasn't there, this MAY be a very important video.

Either the photo wasn't taken on Thursday at 2.29pm or Rachael is lying......Why?

I don't know if anyone has seen the 'loose change' films which are free to stream online:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(film)

Perhaps you could make a full length version detailing the whole story and the inconsistancies in the same vein and manner as the above!!! :)

Wintabells Wed 4 Jan - 5:41

HiDeHo wrote:An afterthought....

As per my post above regarding Rachael 'seeing' Madeleine (regardless of whether it was Tuesday when Madeleine was playing mini tennis or whether it was Thursday.....

Her statement eliminates the possibility that she saw Madeleine Thursday lunchtime by the pool, when she was playing tennis with Jane.She claims to have only seen Kate and Gerry and the last time she saw Madeleine was prior to that.

Her statement 'tells' us, inadvertently, that there was no 'Last Picture' taken of Madeleine by the pool on Thursday lunchtime!

Madeleine wasn't there!

Is it possible that Rachel saw only Kate and Gerry because Madeleine was playing around in the background with the twins, post photo being taken and pre being delivered into the creche for the afternoon session on May 3rd?

ELI Wed 4 Jan - 22:42

There's an interesting discrepency with the name of the people who stayed in apartment G20.

Pawer – apt. G20

Palmer --apt. G20

unfortunately the links from the files on gerrymccannsblogs have changed so can't post them but we seem to have another possible Dr - Pawer.

Guest Wed 4 Jan - 22:44

Looks like a simple typo to me.

ELI Wed 4 Jan - 22:51

The End Is Nigh wrote:Looks like a simple typo to me.

Thats what I originally thought, it's shown on the computerised printed out booking sheets so how they booked two names for one apartment is odd.

Even odder the other name is Pawer and coincidently a Dr. Pawer worked at Leicester Infirmary.

**HiDeHo** Thu 5 Jan - 13:45

Loopdaloop wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:
NoStone wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:An afterthought....

As per my post above regarding Rachael 'seeing' Madeleine (regardless of whether it was Tuesday when Madeleine was playing mini tennis or whether it was Thursday.....

Her statement eliminates the possibility that she saw Madeleine Thursday lunchtime by the pool, when she was playing tennis with Jane.She claims to have only seen Kate and Gerry and the last time she saw Madeleine was prior to that.

Her statement 'tells' us, inadvertently, that there was no 'Last Picture' taken of Madeleine by the pool on Thursday lunchtime!

Madeleine wasn't there!

HiDeHo - it is complicated - would it possible to simplify the logic as to why RO's statement means it was not Thursday - if you could flesh that out it might help write the script for your video and how best to make the point?? I know you are excellent at this and the way you put our videos together - but if it would help to bash it around on here a little I am sure we might be able to help you spell it out for the lay person!?? Just a thought!

I appreciate that ....I tend to ramble and I tend to include all sorts of 'confirming' info in the videos which I know can create confusion.

I strive to create videos that are believed and without details to corroborate what I am showing I have a concern that 'the lay person' would just pass it off as 'not proven'. I try to cover all bases in the videos.

Considering there is a lot of discussion about the validity of the Last Photo, and I have never seen it discussed before about Rachael (indirectly) claiming that Madeleine wasn't there, this MAY be a very important video.

Either the photo wasn't taken on Thursday at 2.29pm or Rachael is lying......Why?

I don't know if anyone has seen the 'loose change' films which are free to stream online:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loose_Change_(film)

Perhaps you could make a full length version detailing the whole story and the inconsistancies in the same vein and manner as the above!!! :)

An interesting thought loopdaloop.

Considering a 20 minute video can take approx 50 hours to create...a video containing all the details of the holiday as well as discrepancies would be a monumental task, especially for a relative 'newby' at Youtube as myself...........but.........its not out of the question.

I certainly have the resources. I have been collating easy to read timelines and discrepancies in the Madeleine Aimoo forum for the past 4 years.....I have a 'holiday' schedule imprinted in my mind because of the research I have done.

I have just started to compile a timeline of events for the holiday (taken from many different research threads that I have).....it needs a lot of editing but could be used as a basis of a video.

With a 'relatively' quiet work schedule for the next couple of weeks and, currently, at least, a relatively quiet time in the 'investigation' I will consider it.

I will need to know that the effort will (hopefully) produce a video that is worthwhile...

I will post the compilation of the weeks timeline in a new thread and look for input as to whether a video of this nature will be of value, especially considering the length may be offputting.

Madeleine is worth the effort....why am I even questioning it? Was Madeleine Seen During the Holiday? - Page 5 25346

Was Madeleine Seen During the Holiday? - Page 5 25346

http://madeleinemccann.aimoo.com

matthew Thu 5 Jan - 18:57

Was Madeleine Seen During the Holiday? - Page 5 944533

Hideho...count me in with some input

**HiDeHo** Sat 7 Jan - 2:15

I am a few hours into compiling the video and looking forward to the end result (which may not be for a couple of weeks).

I decided against opening a new thread with the timeline (unless requested) but have included on this thread which I am using to compile the graphics needed http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/HiDeHo-Youtube-Videos/Holiday-Video-1-1052158.html

It's going to be very different from all my other videos and hopefully will become a mini 'movie' about their holiday with discrepancies interjected into it.

Thanks for the idea loopdaloop...it will keep me out of trouble (and wreck my social life) for the next couple of weeks....but Madeleine is worth it Was Madeleine Seen During the Holiday? - Page 5 83453

Was Madeleine Seen During the Holiday? - Page 5 83453

Loopdaloop Sat 7 Jan - 3:56

HiDeHo wrote:I am a few hours into compiling the video and looking forward to the end result (which may not be for a couple of weeks).

I decided against opening a new thread with the timeline (unless requested) but have included on this thread which I am using to compile the graphics needed http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/HiDeHo-Youtube-Videos/Holiday-Video-1-1052158.html

It's going to be very different from all my other videos and hopefully will become a mini 'movie' about their holiday with discrepancies interjected into it.

Thanks for the idea loopdaloop...it will keep me out of trouble (and wreck my social life) for the next couple of weeks....but Madeleine is worth it

I look forward to watching it and wish you the best of luck! As you already have all the timelines and discrepancies collated at your forum with the information from other sources and reference them and leave what is played open to the interpretation of the viewer who should see all the discrepancies as blindingly obvious then C***T-R**K won't be able to touch you!

(Its sad that when people do things for the greater good you can't help but worry about the forces of evil!)

**HiDeHo** Sat 7 Jan - 4:00

Thanks for the concern..

I work with files, statements and questions....after all, I don't know what happened...I can only create the video according to what 'they' say! Was Madeleine Seen During the Holiday? - Page 5 192282

Was Madeleine Seen During the Holiday? - Page 5 192282

Loopdaloop Sat 7 Jan - 4:20

HiDeHo wrote:Thanks for the concern..

I work with files, statements and questions....after all, I don't know what happened...I can only create the video according to what 'they' say!

I know but I was also thinking of Pat Brown and what happened to Matey from the other forum any little hole and they could have you whooshed!
Your actions are more accountable/traceable on youtube!

Forensicist Sat 7 Jan - 7:03

Loop, I have had the WEIRDEST 'stuff' going on the last two weeks, with all the Madeleine tragedy..

M BETH McCann.

F

matthew Sat 7 Jan - 17:58

I know Kate deleted text messages but does anyone know what date/time these were deleted ?

**Badboy** Sat 7 Jan - 18:44

matthew wrote:I know Kate deleted text messages but does anyone know what date/time these were deleted ?

SOME WERE DELETED C.10PM-MIDNIGHT,METHINKS

Forensicist Sun 8 Jan - 2:10

AnnaEsse wrote:
Velvet wrote:Hi, HiDeHo!

Why do you think that so many people may have possibly mistaken Madeleine from the photos seen after she went missing? Why would the Boyd family not recognise a photo of Madeleine from the girl who they said they believed their son played with? Every single one of them people you've listed believe they saw Madeleine, is it really plausible to disregard all of their statements?

I agree with some of the photo's I have seen previously, they look similar to Madeleine. However, I am good at recognising faces from seeing people once and who's to say some of the people listed are also not good at recognising faces?

If however, like you ask, did anyone not actually see her on their holiday. What do you think is the reason?

Yes and the JP were told the 3 kids all used one hairbrush and one toothbrush! How odd, kids normally like their 'own' things...
I believe there is a question about why Gerry had to go to Rothley to collect a pillow from Madeleine's bed there. Do you find it odd or not that a bed that Madeleine had been sleeping in for nearly a week didn't have any hair, saliva, or any other trace of her to be tested for DNA?

Forensicist Sun 8 Jan - 2:21

AnnaEsse wrote:
Velvet wrote:Hi, HiDeHo!

Why do you think that so many people may have possibly mistaken Madeleine from the photos seen after she went missing? Why would the Boyd family not recognise a photo of Madeleine from the girl who they said they believed their son played with? Every single one of them people you've listed believe they saw Madeleine, is it really plausible to disregard all of their statements?

I agree with some of the photo's I have seen previously, they look similar to Madeleine. However, I am good at recognising faces from seeing people once and who's to say some of the people listed are also not good at recognising faces?

If however, like you ask, did anyone not actually see her on their holiday. What do you think is the reason?

I believe there is a question about why Gerry had to go to Rothley to collect a pillow from Madeleine's bed there. Do you find it odd or not that a bed that Madeleine had been sleeping in for nearly a week didn't have any hair, saliva, or any other trace of her to be tested for DNA?

Yes, very fishy, because there is no true chain of evidence.You could get hair + follicles from one of the hats she wore allegedly on the last two days. Saliva from a drinking bottle if she was still using one. Yes and the JP were told the 3 kids all used one hairbrush and one toothbrush! How odd, kids normally like their 'own' things ... so the hair DNA supplied by GM could theoretically be fiddled with...

Forensicist Sun 8 Jan - 2:31

The End Is Nigh wrote:That's not just odd, but downright impossible ............... even after a "clean-through" there would and should have been ample traces of several types.

It stinks to high heaven.

All of it.

Agreed, I've heard wild rumours of cloning, MBM was artificially conceived, ditto the twins, I've heard rumours that MBM may have a twin (boy) living with a family member, AI kids can be a handful and very hard to look after, Turner's Syndrom, MBM's height was off, one shrink theorises she may have had mild autism, almost two years in Amsterdam, the resort complex that week all teeming with doctors, many from the Royal Children's Hospital in London...

GM - "F*** off! I'm not here to enjoy myself!" Said loudly in front of the children and wives on the bus (WHAT a charming man), all at "meetings" all week, got so involved in one of them they forgot that they had to pick Maddie up from the creche!

Forensicist Sun 8 Jan - 2:34

Iris wrote:
ann_chovey wrote:
Iris wrote:Who is the child in the sunglasses?

Elder Payne daughter I believe.

Then I would have sworn that this was "Maddie" or at the very least, some sort of close relation. Not only to Maddie, but to Kate. They all have the same chin, the same jaw set, the same smile, in fact the whole lower half of the face is identical. This is very strange! Either these girls are "related" in some way, or the photos of "Maddie" are not of Maddie at all. Now why would that be???

The first think to come to mind is cloning experiments...

Forensicist Sun 8 Jan - 2:39

NoStone wrote:

I believe there is a question about why Gerry had to go to Rothley to collect a pillow from Madeleine's bed there. Do you find it odd or not that a bed that Madeleine had been sleeping in for nearly a week didn't have any hair, saliva, or any other trace of her to be tested for DNA?

This puzzles me to Anna. Do we know for a fact if Gerry was 'sent' back to the Uk to bring back a source of DNA or was that a cover for him picking up other things. Did not photo's and the police manuals - No Stone Unturned book turn up after this visit?

He may have picked up all the CEOP training manuals, he bought a famous American novel of a chld abduction, and this from another forum"

Gerry McCann's holiday reading material....

...was a police manual that discusses amongst other things how police can tell if someone is lying etc.

Here is the Amazon summary of that book:

NecroSearch International specializes in homicide cases shelved because of "corpus indelecti" that is, a body cannot be produced as evidence that a murder has taken place. Coming from a wide range of backgrounds geophysicists to "cadaver dog" specialists to chemists and rank-and-file cops the members of NecroSearch combine their skills to produce the most proficient (and most exciting) detective work since Sherlock Holmes. They take the coldest cases and comb for hidden graves on rural hillsides, in suburban backyards and at the bottom of mud-choked riverbeds, searching for remains that have been buried anywhere from two to 20 years. (Or 70, as in the notorious Romanov family case.) Having sharpened his true crime teeth on Monster, Jackson competes here with two other books on forensic science to appear this season: Michael Baden and Marion Roach's Dead Reckoning and Corpse by Jessica Snyder Sachs. But while those books concentrate on the establishment of forensic methods as formidable weapons in the fight for criminal justice, this book combines the burden of scientific proof with rousing tales of police work out in the field or the quarry, the Rocky Mountains or someone's backyard. The book covers the group's quirky beginnings and digs into its most important cases suspensefully; Jackson's sharp eye misses nothing in the painstakingly rendered details. A must-have for true crime fans, it should also be of great interest to anyone fascinated with the practical applications of science.

Interesting to also note that the book is named 'no stone unturned' which is what The McCanns have named their Website and their campaign to find Madeleine.

Forensicist Sun 8 Jan - 2:52

Wintabells wrote:The Boyd child seems to have a phenomenal command of language given that he was 3 years old. 'Isn't that the girl I played with yesterday?' - amazing mastery of the abstract relational system underlying verb tense distinctions - almost as precocious as 'Where were you last night when me and Sean cried?'

Agreed, especially the 2nd one. Also, Maddie surely would have asked that question the night before, when the parents allegedly got home and everything suddenly went stone cold silent, could something have happened then, loss of control due to a tantrum - so why would Maddie ask it again the next morning, and then watch KM's stream of consciousness rambling, which made no sense at all. I know Dr Robrrts thinks this is a red herring to build up an alibi for later use.

Forensicist Sun 8 Jan - 2:59

jinvta wrote:Thanks HiDeHo for adding the last page of the article, or maybe I just missed it the first time. That last bit of the article is quite interesting. The Boyds claim to have left their son Louie two years prior at a resort where a baby-listening service was employed, however, they were too nervous and found themselves repeatedly running back to the room to check on him.

I find it extremely hard to believe that 9 adults could all have been comfortable with their make-shift baby-listening service, particularly when the apartments were not in a secure or monitored complex. The only time a baby listening service could be even remotely safe is if it is conducted within a secure and monitored complex. It would be much more risky for an abductor to attempt to take a child within a secure and monitored complex.

I wonder if it was ever even proven that the Payne's monitor even worked from such a distance?

I also thought it would be unlikely the baby device would work at 100m, but apparently the Payne's said it did (if you can believe them?) - it also has been common knowledge by Mark Warner that there had been a spate of robberies at the complex, and I think visitors on arrival were infomed - there is no way any normal people would leave patio doors open on a dark quite side street, but then these are not normal people, are they?

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