Pat Brown

Velvet wrote:. At the same time I do not see how a body could have been so well hidden in a country that they didn't particularly know very well.

The McCanns may not have known the country very well but I would not discount the possibility that they, or persons they were acquainted with, knew people local to the area. Gerry McCann did not deny knowing Robert Murat when asked. Why not, it is a simple question to answer. If you were asked do you know me, would you say yes, no, or no comment ? I am not implying Murat had an involvement by the way.

As far as I am aware the patio doors did not have closed shutters, the doors were unlocked and freely available to enter or exit through, although they were within view from the Tapas Bar area as others have said. I understand the reason using these doors is that it was less noisy and would not wake the children.

ann_chovey wrote:
Locked or unlocked?..................


Jon Corner was quoted in the Daily Telegraph of 07 May 2007:

'Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.

He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'

"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage."

I seem to recall that in his first statement immediately after the event GM said when he made his 9 pm check he entered the front door with his key. He also said KM did the same. In later statements it was changed to going via the unlocked patio doors.

He seems to have a problem with short-term memory.

Velvet wrote:

kitti wrote:You don't become neutral or a fence sitter after 5 years unless your have an agenda.

And what would my agenda be? I have no agenda but do not categorically believe either way she was abducted/killed. Does that make me a bad person? A pro? A troll? No I'm someone with an open mind to what could have happened to Madeleine. I have had conversations on here about the dogs, where I originally thought they were wrong, and after discussing it and actually looking into them in more depth I cannot justify them being wrong. At the same time I do not see how a body could have been so well hidden in a country that they didn't particularly know very well. Forgive me if I don't fully agree with everyones opinions on here, however it makes me no more right or wrong on this subject than anyone else.

If you're leaning more towards an abductor, do you seriously think that Madeleine may still be alive? If not there is masses of scope for concealment of a body - cliffs, the sea, roadworks in town - all could be used both by someone within the group, or someone totally unconnected to them. Sadly the dogs have indicated that someone bled and died in the apartment and as there seems to be only one person who has gone missing from it, it seems to me that there's very little likelihood of Madeleine still being alive but I would love to be proved wrong and to hear that she's safe and well.

Chris wrote:

ann_chovey wrote:
Locked or unlocked?..................


Jon Corner was quoted in the Daily Telegraph of 07 May 2007:

'Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.

He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'

"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage."

I seem to recall that in his first statement immediately after the event GM said when he made his 9 pm check he entered the front door with his key. He also said KM did the same. In later statements it was changed to going via the unlocked patio doors.

He seems to have a problem with short-term memory.

Given his profession, that's worrying!!!

Velvet wrote:

kitti wrote:And let's not forget....they would off also HEARD IT going through the Patio doors as the shutters were down...

I'm being dense here, but there were shutters on the patio door?

RO 15th may 2007 interview..


The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The patio door that they used to enter the apartment also had its shutter closed. In order to enter they had to raise the shutter.....

kitti wrote:

Velvet wrote:

kitti wrote:And let's not forget....they would off also HEARD IT going through the Patio doors as the shutters were down...

I'm being dense here, but there were shutters on the patio door?

RO 15th may 2007 interview..


The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The patio door that they used to enter the apartment also had its shutter closed. In order to enter they had to raise the shutter.....

That would have made one helluva racket, kitti!

Indeed they would and didn't the mccanns say that the only reason they stopped going through the front door is because they didn't want to disturb the children?

Velvets gone off to have a read I think lol

kitti wrote:
RO 15th may 2007 interview..


The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The patio door that they used to enter the apartment also had its shutter closed. In order to enter they had to raise the shutter.....

dear god, i feel sick. did they not state that the doors were left unlocked so that madeleine could get out in the event of a fire ? while that was far fetched in itself, is it really true the shutters were DOWN ? so they not only expected her to evacuate herself and twin babies but also open the door, then the shutters. just when i thought i could no longer be shocked by anything they could say or lay claim to. i am speechless.

PAT BROWN @ProfilerPatB

* Reply
* RetweetedRetweet
* Delete
* FavoritedFavorite
* · Close Open Details

If Matthew Oldfield told Gerry he listened at the windows & all was quiet, why did Gerry rush right back up to check the kids? #McCann

PAT BROWN @ProfilerPatB

* Reply
* RetweetedRetweet
* Delete
* FavoritedFavorite
* · Close Open Details

If Gerry returned in five minutes as Matthew & Jane claimed, why was Kate wondering what was taking him so long? #McCann

off course RO doesnt state that in her rogatory.......

kitti wrote:Indeed they would and didn't the mccanns say that the only reason they stopped going through the front door is because they didn't want to disturb the children?

Gerry's first statement.................

Thus, at 9.05 pm, the deponent entered the club, using his key, the door being locked, and went to the children's bedroom and noted that the twins and Madeleine were in perfect condition. He then went to the toilet, where he remained for a few instants, left the apartment, and then crossed ways with someone with whom he had played tennis, who had a baby buggy, also a British citizen, with whom he had a brief conversation. He then returned to the restaurant. At around 9.30 pm, his friend MATT (a member of the group) went to his apartment where his own children were, and on his way he went into the deponent's apartment, going in through a sliding glass door at the side of the building, which was always unlocked. He went into the room, saw the twins and didn’t even notice if Madeleine was there, as everything was quiet, the shutters closed and the bedroom door half-open as usual. Then MATT went back to the restaurant.

At 10pm, his wife Kate went to check on the children. She went into the apartment through the door using her key and saw right away that the children’s bedroom door was completely open, the window was also open, the shutters raised and the curtains drawn open. The side door that opens into the living room, which as said earlier, was never locked, was closed.

What's the point of locking one door and leaving another open, why not give Matt the key to check or just have him listen. Why so important that he had to enter re the patio door when they entered the other way (according to them).

PAT BROWN @ProfilerPatB

* Reply
* RetweetedRetweet
* Delete
* FavoritedFavorite
* · Close Open Details

Although, Jane says Gerry was already in the Tapas when she came back, Russell says Gerry took 25 minutes to return. #McCann

PAT BROWN @ProfilerPatB

* Reply
* RetweetedRetweet
* Delete
* FavoritedFavorite
* · Close Open Details

If Gerry really returned at 9:30, why is Matthew going right away to check the McCann children? #McCann

Witness Statement

Rachel Mampilly

Date: 2007-05-15

She confirms the integrity of her previous statements.

When asked, she said this was the first time she had been in Portugal. She travelled with her husband Matthew, her daughter G***e, aged 19 months. In addition to these, the group was made up of the McCann family (with three children the eldest being Madeleine) the Payne family (two children), Dianne Webster, Fiona Paynes mother and Obrien and his partner Jane Tanner, who also have two children.

The group was composed of nine adults and eight children.

They arrived in Portugal on Saturday 28th April, arriving at the OC in the middle of the afternoon. They flew from Gatwick to Faro. The Payne, McCann families and Diane Webster arrived an hour later by a separate flight (East Midlands ? Faro.

On that evening they all went for dinner at the Millenium restaurant


On the morning of the 29th, Sunday, they all went to play tennis except for Matthew because he was ill (vomiting and diarrhoea) and ROB. The children went to the Club. They all lunched in David and Fionas apartment. The McCanns lunched in their apartment and then went to meet the others. In the afternoon the children slept (except the McCann children) and afterwards they went to the recreation area. At 17.00 the children went for dinner. Immediately afterwards, the witness, her husband and daughter went to walk on the beach. She thinks that the McCanns remained at the recreation area near to the pool and tennis courts, as did the others. At about 20.30 when the children has been bathed and were asleep, they all went for dinner at the Tapas Restaurant, near to the pool.

The only beach they members of the group went to was the beach in P da L.

On the 29th, 30th, April, 1st, 2nd and 3rd May they always dined at the Tapas restaurant.

On Monday they were told that there was no room for all of them in the restaurant, but they obtained a special favour from a waiter and all dined together. In order to obtain this favour they said that the children were asleep and that they could not move anywhere else. For this reason, from this day onwards they would reserve a space in the restaurant (for the adults) for the following day.

That on the five consecutive nights they dines at the Tapas restaurant they always followed the same ritual.

They would always begin dinner at 8.30, after the children were asleep. If one of them hadn't fallen asleep, one member of the couple would stay until the child had fallen asleep and as soon as that happened, would go and join the others.

This happened to ROB on Tuesday evening and he did not manage to have dinner, his partner Jane Tanner brought him his dinner in his room.

On Wednesday evening the witness did not go for dinner because she was feeling ill and spent the day in the apartment.

On Thursday evening, for the same reason, ROB went to dinner ten minutes late.


The ritual during dinner was always the same. The Payne family used a walkie talkie to check whether their children woke up. For this reason they never left the table and were calm. This couple when they left, would always lock the windows and doors, in spite of their apartment being on the first floor.

The witness and her husband who were staying on the ground floor (5B) in a space of 20 - 30 minutes would leave the restaurant and go to the apartment, entering by the front door and checking on G***e. They always locked the door and closed the windows.


The ROB and JT couple did exactly the same as the witness. They locked the door and closed the windows.

The McCanns who were staying in 5? on the ground floor left the PATIO DOORS CLOSED but NOT LOCKED so that every 30 minutes during dinner, one of them would check to see how the children were

Each couple checked on their own children.

She never noticed anything strange during dinner or when checking on the children.

On 3rd May, the day of Madeleines disappearance they all (except for the McCanns who stayed in their apartment) has breakfast at the Millenium at 08.00

Afterwards the witness took G***e to the Club. Madeleine and the twins also went to the Club that morning, as well as the other children in the group.

Matthew and ROB went to the beach. The Payne couple were also at the beach. The witness, after leaving G***e at the club went to the apartment to get ready for tennis. Also present at the tennis courts between 9.10 and 10.10 were Kate McCann, Dianne Webster and Jane Tanner. The witnesses tennis session was at 11 with Matthew after he returned from the beach. Gerrys tennis session was at 10.00.

After tennis, as usual they went to pick up the children and all had lunch in David and Fionas apartment apart from the McCann family.

After lunch the children went to sleep. She was not with the McCanns that afternoon until dinner time. She does not know what they did or where they were during that time

They spent most of the time on the beach that afternoon. They saw Kate running on the beach but she did not stop and they did not speak

All the children, except the McCann children dined at a beach restaurant at 17.30. After the children?s dinner, the men went to play tennis and the women and children watched, once again except for the McCann family (Gerry was playing tennis but she did not see Kate or the children).



Afterwards they went to bathe the children and put them to bed.


When they arrived at the restaurant at 20.45 the McCann couple was already there.

They were talking to a couple they knew from tennis, whose name she cannot remember. Jane was also there but she was not talking to them. The Payne family and Dianne arrived just after 21.00. Matthew bumped into them as he had gone to the apartment, but he did not enter, he just listened outside to see if there was any noise. He did the same at the Tanner and McCann apartments.





The window shutters of the McCann's apartments were closed. The PATIO DOOR that they used to enter the apartment also had its SHUTTER CLOSED. In order to enter they had to RAISE the SHUTTER.

At about 21.00 they were all seated at the restaurant. At 21.05 Gerry went to check on his children and returned minutes later. Jane also went to heck on her children before returning.


Gerry said that he was chatting to a tennis friend called Jez about the tennis tournament that would take place the following day.

When Jane returned they began to eat dinner.

At about 21.30 Matthew and Russell went to check on their children at the same time. They offered to check on the McCann children. After checking his children Matthew went to see the McCann children. In order to do so he entered via the patio doors. According to what her husband told her the bedroom door was ajar. He did not enter the room and therefore cannot say whether Madeleine was in the room or not. All he could confirm was that nobody was crying and the twins were there. Russell was not with him as he had stayed in his apartment because one of his children was crying.


Matthew returned to the table and said that all was calm, except for Russell's daughter, which is why ROB stayed with her.

In the meantime they began dinner (at that time they would be eating their starters) and after eating Jane went to Russell to see if he wanted to have dinner. It was about 21.45.

While Russell was having dinner, Kate went to see the children. Minutes later at about 22.00 she returned to the restaurant in complete panic, saying that Madeleine had disappeared.

During that day and evening the witness had not seen anything strange.

She just says that at about 21.15 when Gerry was talking to Jez, Jane saw a man carrying a child in pyjamas, bare foot crossing road between blocks 5 and 6.

According to Jane she did not see the face of the man carrying the child.

She could only tell what she saw.

When asked what the relation between the group was she says that all the men and Fiona are doctors and a friendship had built up between them because at one stage or another, they had worked together. In spite of not living in the same town they would meet up.

Fiona and David Payne are the closest to the McCann family.

It is the second time that they have been on holiday with these friends. In September 2006, they went for a week to the island of Zakynthos in Greece. However, neither the McCann family nor Diane Webster went.

When asked she says that all the couples have been together for various years (between 8 and 12 years). They all have stable relationships. She does not know whether any female or male members of the group have had any other relationships between them, other than the current.

She does not have any knowledge of whether any members has a parallel relationship with any other members of the group.

When asked, she says that there is no friction or conflict between those that make up the group as they are in total harmony as regards the kind of holidays they take, they all have good jobs and identical levels of living as well as having the children in common, whom they all have to look after and they try as hard as possible to do everything together.

She says that in terms of harmony and friendship the group is very close.

When asked about the characteristics of the other couples, she says that they are all persons of normal considered behaviour, and has nothing to point out.

She says that the first time she saw the suspect Robert Murat was on the night of 3rd May shortly after they had discovered Madeleine was missing. She saw him for the first time at about 23.30 in the covered area between apartments 5B and D. She thought it very strange as he seemed to be there watching, trying to be the next person to talk to the couples from the group.

That immediately, when the police arrived, he introduced himself to elements of the group, namely Russell, accompanied by the GNR, translating all the initial contacts between the group and the police.

When asked, she says that she does not know whether he entered the McCanns apartment with the police.

As regards the other people searching for the girl outside the apartment he tried to contact them directly, saying that he had a daughter of the same age as Madeleine, offering to translate whatever was necessary.

She thought this individual?s behaviour was very strange, given the intensity of his presence. In addition, all the people they contacted that night belonged to the MW resort and he stayed there, in the middle of them, without anyone knowing where he had come from. Because of her profession (personnel recruitment, interviews) she thinks she knows a bit about human behaviour, thinking it rather strange that he introduced himself in such an insistent manner.

She saw that this individual was with the police in the area for some minutes before she lost sight of him. She does not know whether he managed to enter the McCann?s apartment.

She thinks that after this night she only saw him again on Sunday, 6th May in the morning, in the P da L church during mass.

She saw him again on 11th May when he was translating some statements at the PJ in Portimao. She thinks he spoke again and wanted to draw close to her companions with great intensity, wanting to talk about his life, saying that he was carrying out work in a house in the UK, that he had a daughter of the same age as Madeleine, that she was phoning him a lot to ask how he was (which she though strange given the girl?s young age), always showing a familiarity that was out of the ordinary.

She always had the impression that this individual had strange behaviour and that he wanted to impose his presence, trying to take part in everything that was related to Madeleine?s disappearance.

She did not see him again, except for yesterday, when he was shown on various television channels as a suspect in the abduction of Madeleine. She then felt her suspicions about this individual would be confirmed, feeling bad for not having expressed them earlier to others and to the police.

Reads, ratifies, signs

PAT BROWN @ProfilerPatB

* Reply
* RetweetedRetweet
* Delete
* FavoritedFavorite
* · Close Open Details

Rachel says Gerry did his check at 9:15 & came back 10 minutes later at 9:25.Yet Matthew still goes inside & checks 5 minutes later. #McCann

PAT BROWN @ProfilerPatB

* Reply
* RetweetedRetweet
* Delete
* FavoritedFavorite
* · Close Open Details

If you can't see the Tapas 9 stories don't add up, you are ignoring the evidence. #McCann More in my next blog.

Russell O'Brien statement...



At around 9pm they had all ordered their meals, while they were eating, it was normal that every 15 minutes, one person from each apartment would go to the apartments/bedrooms make sure the children were ok. Yesterday, as **** was not well, the interval between checks was reduced. He recalls that Matthew Oldfield left the restaurant at shortly after 9pm to check the children. He is no longer sure who went out first, but five minutes later, Gerry McCann and his own partner, Jane, went out, almost at the same time, to check the children. Jane could have come back first because she found Gerry chatting with a person who is also a guest in the same place, named Jez. He thinks that Jane only checked their apartment, being worried about ****. Then Gerry came back at around 9.25/9.30 and they started to eat the first course. [

Did you notice that he said jane could off come back first as she noticed gerry mccann talking to jez, which to me means, she came back via the path in between the apts and the ocean club....as mr amaral has stated in his documentary.


So as she turned the corner to come down to the front off the oceans club entrance she may off heard voices and turned to look UP to see where they were coming from and may....im saying may, off seen someone walking across the top off the road and if that is so, GM was talking to jez to stop him bumping into that same person.


just a thought.....

dazedandconfused wrote:

Velvet wrote:

kitti wrote:You don't become neutral or a fence sitter after 5 years unless your have an agenda.

And what would my agenda be? I have no agenda but do not categorically believe either way she was abducted/killed. Does that make me a bad person? A pro? A troll? No I'm someone with an open mind to what could have happened to Madeleine. I have had conversations on here about the dogs, where I originally thought they were wrong, and after discussing it and actually looking into them in more depth I cannot justify them being wrong. At the same time I do not see how a body could have been so well hidden in a country that they didn't particularly know very well. Forgive me if I don't fully agree with everyones opinions on here, however it makes me no more right or wrong on this subject than anyone else.

If you're leaning more towards an abductor, do you seriously think that Madeleine may still be alive? If not there is masses of scope for concealment of a body - cliffs, the sea, roadworks in town - all could be used both by someone within the group, or someone totally unconnected to them. Sadly the dogs have indicated that someone bled and died in the apartment and as there seems to be only one person who has gone missing from it, it seems to me that there's very little likelihood of Madeleine still being alive but I would love to be proved wrong and to hear that she's safe and well.

I do not believe she is alive, like yourself I would love to be proven wrong but statistically she died pretty much within the first few hours IF there was an abduction.( If my memory serves me right on children abductions.) I'm not certain she was abducted, like you said the dogs findings only really point to Madeleine. However there is the possibility that someone did walk in and take her, so I won't rule it out.

But there isn't a shred of physical evidence (or even intelligence) to support Abduction. Only the words of the parents and companions (I hesitate to use the word "friends").

And, TEIN, they haven't come up with anything to support the abduction theory apart from 'she's gone, so it must be an abduction'.

Not a wandering, not a kidnapping. Just an abduction. Odd really.

She couldn't off wandered cos all the shutters were DOWN.

It must off been horridly dark in that apt.

If there had been a fire in that apt NONE off the children would off been ale to get out...if she couldn't open the bedroom shutters what likelihood would there off been that she could off opened the patio door faced with a closed shutter .


No chance.

kitti wrote:If there had been a fire in that apt NONE off the children would off been ale to get out...if she couldn't open the bedroom shutters what likelihood would there off been that she could off opened the patio door faced with a closed shutter .


No chance.

Happy Birthday Kitti!

I'm stunned to hear the patio doors had shutters. Surely these doors are always double glazed - very strong glass, which is almost impossible to crack - you'd need a sledgehammer.
After all the shutter rubbish with the window, we now have a shutter on the patio door, why did Kate then say she wouldn't have wandered out of the patio door?
Also seem to remember that the patio doors were left unlocked 'for safety/emergency. They said she wouldn't not she couldn't. I'll have to go through a masses of stuff before I can find that.
I've lived in France and I've never seen shutters on patio doors, on front doors yes! '
Is RO the only one who mentions shutters on the patio doors? Because I'm pretty sure the McCanns never have.

tigger wrote:

kitti wrote:If there had been a fire in that apt NONE off the children would off been ale to get out...if she couldn't open the bedroom shutters what likelihood would there off been that she could off opened the patio door faced with a closed shutter .


No chance.

Happy Birthday Kitti!

I'm stunned to hear the patio doors had shutters. Surely these doors are always double glazed - very strong glass, which is almost impossible to crack - you'd need a sledgehammer.
After all the shutter rubbish with the window, we now have a shutter on the patio door, why did Kate then say she wouldn't have wandered out of the patio door?
Also seem to remember that the patio doors were left unlocked 'for safety/emergency. They said she wouldn't not she couldn't. I'll have to go through a masses of stuff before I can find that.
I've lived in France and I've never seen shutters on patio doors, on front doors yes! '
Is RO the only one who mentions shutters on the patio doors? Because I'm pretty sure the McCanns never have.

I live in Spain in an apartment... and all ground floor flats have shuttered patio doors.