EC PRESIDENT CALLS URGENT MEETING FOR TOMORROW #2

Hi Angelina and fuzeta,

Angela Merkel is too dictatorial, not only on the financial side but telling Countries what to do about the way they do Business and she and
Sarkozy have spent the last two years trying to resolve this crisis and it is all piecemeal so if the situation doesn"t improve oever the next couple of months they will be out of a job next year.


Two U.S. States are bankrupt and the outlook is looking grim for Countries around the World, many analysts are saying a recession is inevitable. When Italy and Spain go to sell more Bonds the rate will be so high they too will eventually default and the Euro will drop
to such a level that the Eurozone will break up. Sorry to be a job"s comforter but the only thing that will stop all this happening is
growth and how can you grow when you can"t borrow any money to expand. These are the two Countries most likely to riot.

Just going to dine, catch you later.

11 December 2011
Last updated at 15:22















Eurozone plan is not the full solution, says IMF











Closer eurozone co-ordination was agreed but the IMF says this is only part of the answer to the crisis



Continue reading the main story Related Stories





The
International Monetary Fund's chief economist has called the agreement
on closer European economic integration a step in the right direction,
but not the whole solution.

Olivier Blanchard, speaking at a business conference in Tel Aviv, said it had though been "progress".

European leaders agreed on Friday to draft a new treaty on deeper eurozone economic integration.

The UK vetoed the plan after an opt-out on financial regulations was denied.

The IMF's Mr Blanchard said: "I'm actually more optimistic than I was a month ago, I think there has been progress."

"What happened last week is important: It's part of the solution, but it's not the solution."

He did not say what further steps were needed.

Mr Blanchard's comments were echoed by the Republic of Ireland's transport minister.

Speaking on the national broadcaster RTE, Leo Varadkar, warned that events would overtake leaders in coming weeks.

"Fiscal co-ordination is a good idea, and it's good that's
happening, but it's not going to be enough to solve the problem that we
have," he said.

EU leaders also agreed that eurozone states and others should
provide up to 200bn euros (£171bn, $268bn) in bilateral loans to the
IMF to help tackle the crisis, with 75% of the money coming from the 17
countries that use the euro.

Mr Blanchard said: "The commitment to give us 200bn euros
makes a major difference in the sense that we can now go out and talk to
other countries and say, 'the Europeans have given us money, can you
help?'"

"Whether this gives us the whole bazooka or not, I hope so."

EU leaders also agreed that eurozone states and others should
provide up to 200bn euros (£171bn, $268bn) in bilateral loans to the
IMF to help tackle the crisis, with 75% of the money coming from the 17
countries that use the euro. This makes them say, look we are using our own money , so now will you help?

Strange that this is the amount the ECB is lending the Banks for three years , see how devious they are? The Banks are broke and
starting to sell assets so the ECB is safguarding the loan by paying it into the IMF knowing they will be repaid.

Panda and all

It's just like my Papa said when we tried to join and DeGaulle said "non"- if we join they will eventually move the Banking over to Brussels and bleed us dry and he was right.

What you say about the ECB proves it.

The Banks in France are broke - have known this for awhile. What Sarkozy doesn't realise is the Germany will spit him out once they gain control.

I think that they want to create this new Treaty so they can bleed all the other countries as well. Mark my words Germany want to be in control.

They want the money!

UPDATED December 9, 2011


Tracking Europe's Debt Crisis




European leaders agreed to sign an intergovernmental treaty
that would require them to enforce stricter fiscal and financial
discipline in their future budgets. But efforts to get unanimity among
the 27 members of the European Union failed as Britain and Hungary
refused to go along. Got an idea for an update? Send a suggestion [email=daniel.mcdermon@nytimes.com?subject=European%20Debt%20Tracker]by e-mail[/email].









Country Latest developments Coming events Vital statistics Recent articles

France	Dec. 9: Moody’s Investors Service downgraded the three largest banks in France.		Debt/G.D.P.: 81.7% Unemployment, Aug. 2011: 10.0% S. & P. Rating: AAA	Treaty to Save Euro Takes Shape, but Britain Sits Out (The New York Times, Dec. 9)
Germany	Dec. 9: Chancellor Angela Merkel said the decisions made at a summit meeting will result in increased credibility for the euro zone.		Debt/G.D.P.: 83.2% Unemployment, Aug. 2011: 5.9% S. & P. Rating: AAA	Germany's Merkel: Will She Save the Euro or Seal Its Demise? (The Christian Science Monitor, Dec. 9)
Greece	Dec. 9: Former Prime Minister George Papandreou said the European Union had done “too little too late” to address the debt crisis.		Debt/G.D.P.: 142.8% Unemployment, June 2011: 16.4% S. & P. Rating: CC	Curtain Falling on Greece's Ruling Dynasts (Reuters, Dec. 9)
Italy	Dec. 9: Yields on Italian bonds rose again.		Debt/G.D.P.: 119% Unemployment, Aug. 2011: 6.8% S. & P. Rating: A	Saving Italy (The Economist, Dec. 10)
Portugal	Dec. 9: Portugal’s economy shrank for a fourth quarter, as cutbacks continued.		Debt/G.D.P.: 93% Unemployment, Aug. 2011: 12.3% S. & P. Rating: BBB-
Spain	Dec. 8: Mariano Rajoy, Spain's incoming prime minister, pledged to support efforts to improve euro zone governance.		Debt/G.D.P.: 60.1% Unemployment, Aug. 2011: 20.5% S. & P. Rating: AA

Spokesman from Standard Chartered Bank thinks the Euro Zone is sliding into recession, that the ECB should print money to allow for the
29 Trillion Euros needed in 2012,but ECB still says it is not allowed to according to the Treaty.

Saxo bank Spokesman says Italy wants to rollover a debt of 140 Billion but may not be allowed to by the IMF and the Eurozone is still far from fiscal union. Credit crunch expected next year.

Moody"s says the Summit agreement is not enough to save the Euro.

One analyst says the E700 billion is not enought to save Italy and Spain and the ECB will have to do more, and that the agreement fails to end debt crisis.

Bundesbank Chief says ECB cannot undo the Treaty and act as Central Bank.


As an aside..... China and India are slowing down as are Japan. and Russia.

David
Cameron will defend his decision to veto a new European Union treaty
amid criticism from his Liberal Democrat deputy Nick Clegg that the move
was "bad for Britain".


Serious Cabinet disagreements have been laid bare with Mr Clegg
revealing he was "bitterly disappointed" with the Prime Minister's use
of the veto in Brussels last week.


Mr
Cameron will tell the Commons later that he could not sign up to treaty
change without securing "reasonable" safeguards for British interests
that fellow EU leaders refused to provide.


But the Deputy Prime Minister said the UK now faces "being isolated and marginalised within the European Union".


He told BBC1's Andrew Marr Show: "I don't think that's good for jobs,
in the City or elsewhere, I don't think it's good for growth or for
families up and down the country."


Asked what he had told the Prime Minister in a 4am telephone call on
Friday morning, the Lib Dem leader said: "I said this was bad for
Britain.








Who Stands Where On The Deal?

:: Who's in?
The 17 countries that use the euro, plus Bulgaria, Denmark, Latvia,
Lithuania, Poland and Romania have signed up to the agreement.
:: Who's out? The UK.
:: Any others? The Czech Republic, Sweden and Hungary will put the issue to their people.

"I made it clear that it was untenable for me to welcome it."


The Prime Minister is likely to receive a warm reception from his MPs
this afternoon but any display of triumphalism will risk deepening the
rift with his Lib Dem coalition partners.


Mr Clegg made clear he would not allow the UK to leave the EU - a
goal to which some Tory eurosceptics are now seriously turning their
minds.


Liberal Democrat Business Secretary Vince Cable also expressed
concern that Britain had "finished in a bad place" at the EU summit,
although he added the policy was a "collective decision by the
coalition".


Lib Dem peer Baroness Tonge suggested on Sunday night that members of
her party, including Mr Cable, were reaching the end of their patience
with the coalition.


Tory Justice Secretary Kenneth Clarke, a pro-European like his Lib
Dem Cabinet colleagues, also described the outcome of the summit as
"disappointing".







Hague: Cameron did the right thing












Foreign Secretary William Hague insisted Britain was "not
marginalised" and suggested Mr Clegg had signed up to the Government's
bargaining position in advance of the summit.


"We are not marginalised, I can assure you of that," he told Sky News.


"Our agreement is required in the EU to a whole range of other decisions that will be coming up over the next few months.


Meanwhile, a poll in The Times seems to indicate that most people support the stance the Prime Minister took.


Just over 1,000 people were polled and 57% of those surveyed agreed that Mr Cameron was "right to exercise Britain's veto".


But 56% of those polled seem to think the decision will definitely weaken the influence of the UK within the EU.


Asian stock markets rose today as investors cheered the European
fiscal pact aimed at fixing the region's debt crisis and preventing the
euro's collapse.


Japan's Nikkei 225 index jumped 1.5% to 8,665.76. South Korea's Kospi
went up 1.2% to 1,896.35 and Hong Kong's Hang Seng rose 1.6% to
18,874.22.

European and British Stocks opened lower today and Italy is selling more short term Bonds today so analysts are waiting to see what the yield.

The EU needs 100 Billion Euros a month to tick over which seems impossible at the moment.

A Portfolio Manager at Fidelity Worldwide Investments says EU Leaders need to be more forceful now, not wait until the new fiscal policy is introduced.
He also thinks the Euro is being undermined by Draghi getting involved in lending to the Banks by indirectly "lending" to the IMF and lowering the interest rate is undoing all the work done by Trichet . When asked whether he thought Cameron had done the wrong thing by using his veto he said he had no choice.

I'm sick of seeing Labour MPs saying they would have done it all differently, yet not one of them can explain how. No-one in the UK except Cameron knows exactly what was said in the negotiations. Let's hear just one Labour supporter explain how you "deal differently" with a flat refusal to negotiate and a "sign or don't sign" ultimatum.

Angelina wrote:I'm sick of seeing Labour MPs saying they would have done it all differently, yet not one of them can explain how. No-one in the UK except Cameron knows exactly what was said in the negotiations. Let's hear just one Labour supporter explain how you "deal differently" with a flat refusal to negotiate and a "sign or don't sign" ultimatum.

Morning Angelina,

Nick Clegg is distancing himself now, says Britain could become isolated etc, obviously because he needs to placate his own party and to brake up the
Coalition now would mean a General Election. Technically, Britain is still in the EU but not of the Eurozone , but we weren"t anyway so what"s the
problem? If the Eurozone fails and it is likely if one or two Countries defect, Italy is selling bonds again, a 1 year bond but we don"t know what the
yield will be yet. They are selling Bonds every week and must be in really bad financial difficulty which will not abate while the World is heading for recession. Whatever happens next will be Global I"m sure so we just have to wait and see. Labour gave away much of our ability to Govern ourselves
so I don"t know why they are complaining.

A UBS analyst says it would have been better to have all 27 Countries adopt the fiscal policy and Cameron is seen as a hillbilly, but if the eurozone
collapses he will be seen as a hero.

Moody"s says it is monitoring all 17 banks in the Eurozone and thinks it is inevitable that some will be downgraded.

Italy"s 71 Billion debt will be very difficult to manage.

Merkel advisore say market will get the reassurance they need.

Germany to sell E3.6 Billion of best properties as liquidation looms.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8950685/Like-it-or-not-Britains-veto-was-Germanys-decision-not-Camerons.html

This is very interesting - so maybe there is something else going on behind the scenes. That picture on the news last night of Cameroon sitting all alone like a "billy no buds" was done on purpose methinks!

Like it or not, Britain's veto was Germany's decision not Cameron's

Patriotic pride or abject horror? A European summit hasn’t been so divisive in Britain since Fontainebleau in 1984 when Mrs Thatcher threw down her handbag and declared: “I want my money back.”


The EU 'outs' such as Britain represent an extra hurdle over which Germany has no real stick. Photo: AP
By Louise Armitstead, Chief Business Correspondent12:44PM GMT 12 Dec 2011 89 Comments
The yellow side of the Coalition is scandalised: Britain faces being reduced to a “pygmy” nation, said Nick Clegg.
On the other hand, David Cameron has been greeted by eurosceptic Britain as Henry V returning from Agincourt.
But whichever side of the dichotomy you’re on, it ain’t Cameron you should be praising or blaming, but Angela Merkel and Nicholas Sarkozy. The truth is, Cameron hasn’t stood-up for Britain or quit the eurozone debate: Britain has been kicked out.
Ever since Merkel made European treaty change her goal, it was obvious that she would have a job getting her way. It’s been tough enough getting the 17 eurozone countries to agree to anything, even if you’re their paymaster.
The “outs” represent an extra hurdle over which Germany has no real stick. Added to which, Britain, backed by an even more annoying America, has grated with nagging calls of “hurry up and sort out the crisis.”
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EU comes under threat of downgrade by Standard & Poor's 07 Dec 2011
Amid all the posturing, the Financial Transaction Tax has proved a remarkably dextrous tool. It’s unified a grumpy electorate by promising to tax bankers and give to the needy - a range of beneficiaries from Oxfam to infrastructure projects have laid claim to the proceeds.
It’s also proved a reliable answer to the constant question of “where’s the money going to come from?”
Deciding to be bold, Cameron loudly declared he would put a stop to the threat to the City - even if it meant torpedoing Mer-kozy’s vital Brussels summit. But the German and French leaders didn’t need to wait that long: they leapt at the chance last Wednesday.
Their open letter to Herman Van Rompuy setting out their lofty aims for the summit: beef up the European Stability Mechanism; use the IMF for extra liquidity and fiscal unification. But there, bold as brass, was a commitment to a “creation of a financial transaction tax.”
Merkel and Sarkozy wrote that they wanted the measures to be “enshrined in the European Treaties” but quickly added that they’d be just as happy to go ahead with agreement from the 17.
That letter was the writing on the wall for Cameron: he either had to agree to an FTT (unthinkable) or use Britain’s veto.
From the other side of the Channel, Cameron can keep his precious City if he wants to, just as Mrs Thatcher won her rebate. The core of Europe is going on to build an economic pact without him.

David Cameron has played a blinder on PM's question time today. Millaband made a total fool of himself as usual . It became obvious he knew nothing about anything and waffled on. He ignored Cameron when Cameron continually asked him " what would you have done?"

Clegg was conspicuous in his absence. could not face up to playing with the big boys

Cameron was continually asked where he was and Cameron said that he was not responsible for Nick Clegg's whereabouts. Someone suggested that they should ask Mrs Clegg to organise a search party!

All good stuff. Considering David Cameron has had such pressure on him this last week. He was right on the ball with his answers today. I am proud of him again. Almost two hours he had to stand there and defend his corner when the questions were coming fast and furious. I think he deserves a stiff drink tonight and a week off.

Thanks An ngelique,

Well the stock market is down around the World

The Euro is down but this suits Germany.

French production is down to 1997 level and emerging markets will take full advantage of the austerity plan .

analysts are suggesting that by the end of 2012 the Euro will break down.

Standard and Poors said last Friday that they would consider the position of the 17 Banks, Moodys too have made the same comment.

One Investment Manager said the current situation has a Lehmannesque feeland there is no certainty that Merkozy are in full control of the situation.

Sweden and I think Hungary have not signed yet, their Governments want to study some points listed in the new fiscal Agreement.

Nick Clegg has shown himself up again as a weak non leader of men. This volte face is appalling when we as a country need to stand firm. As far as I was aware Clegg was kept informed at every step of the summit talks and agreed with Cameron. Now because his fellow Lib Dem MPs are having a bit of a go at him he caves in. Clegg is a clown.

Sarcosey had it in for UK at the summit so Cameron had no choice either sign or veto as I gather Merkel was very quiet there.

Ed Milliband would have done exactly the same - there was no way out of it IMO unless more information comes out that we do not yet have.

Further integration into this corrupt and inefficient Union is the opposite of what we need.

gillyspot wrote:Nick Clegg has shown himself up again as a weak non leader of men. This volte face is appalling when we as a country need to stand firm. As far as I was aware Clegg was kept informed at every step of the summit talks and agreed with Cameron. Now because his fellow Lib Dem MPs are having a bit of a go at him he caves in. Clegg is a clown.

Sarcosey had it in for UK at the summit so Cameron had no choice either sign or veto as I gather Merkel was very quiet there.

Ed Milliband would have done exactly the same - there was no way out of it IMO unless more information comes out that we do not yet have.

Further integration into this corrupt and inefficient Union is the opposite of what we need.

Agreed completely gillyspot I said the same a couple of posts ago about the PM's question time today. Clegg is definately a clown . It was obvious when he appeared on the podium before the election. What worried me about that is that the British public loved him. Even though he said the opposite to what he said before every time he spoke.

I have never forgiven him for holding the country to ransom after the election. Lying to us whilst discussing terms with both Labour and Conservative parties. Only in it for power for himself and NOT the wellbeing of us and the UK economy.

fuzeta wrote:David Cameron has played a blinder on PM's question time today. Millaband made a total fool of himself as usual . It became obvious he knew nothing about anything and waffled on. He ignored Cameron when Cameron continually asked him " what would you have done?"

Clegg was conspicuous in his absence. could not face up to playing with the big boys

Cameron was continually asked where he was and Cameron said that he was not responsible for Nick Clegg's whereabouts. Someone suggested that they should ask Mrs Clegg to organise a search party!

All good stuff. Considering David Cameron has had such pressure on him this last week. He was right on the ball with his answers today. I am proud of him again. Almost two hours he had to stand there and defend his corner when the questions were coming fast and furious. I think he deserves a stiff drink tonight and a week off.

hi fuzeta, I think it all started when either Cameron or George announced at the very beginning that Britain would not help to bail out Greece. This
angered Sarkozy and Merkel and Britain has always been seen as the Bolshie Member trying to get their proper share and there is no love lost between them. Therefore, their attitude was take it or leave it and Cameron did not have a choice.

I AM NOT SURE IF JOINING THE EURO WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA,SEEING THE MESS THEY ARE IN.

gillyspot wrote:I have never forgiven him for holding the country to ransom after the election. Lying to us whilst discussing terms with both Labour and Conservative parties. Only in it for power for himself and NOT the wellbeing of us and the UK economy.

He is an untrustworthy sneaky little you know what! I wish the Lib Dems would withdraw support and Cameron have to call an election. Get rid of the lot of them never to be seen, pretending to be a political party, again .

They would not ever get a sniff of power again after this and they know it. That is why they they cling on . There is no worth in the lot of them.

Get rid of the Lib Dems and the EU. Then and only then will we thrive again. IMO of course

Panda wrote:

fuzeta wrote:David Cameron has played a blinder on PM's question time today. Millaband made a total fool of himself as usual . It became obvious he knew nothing about anything and waffled on. He ignored Cameron when Cameron continually asked him " what would you have done?"

Clegg was conspicuous in his absence. could not face up to playing with the big boys

Cameron was continually asked where he was and Cameron said that he was not responsible for Nick Clegg's whereabouts. Someone suggested that they should ask Mrs Clegg to organise a search party!

All good stuff. Considering David Cameron has had such pressure on him this last week. He was right on the ball with his answers today. I am proud of him again. Almost two hours he had to stand there and defend his corner when the questions were coming fast and furious. I think he deserves a stiff drink tonight and a week off.

hi fuzeta, I think it all started when either Cameron or George announced at the very beginning that Britain would not help to bail out Greece. This
angered Sarkozy and Merkel and Britain has always been seen as the Bolshie Member trying to get their proper share and there is no love lost between them. Therefore, their attitude was take it or leave it and Cameron did not have a choice.

Hi Panda, we already bailed out Greece once I believe. When we are not even of the euro currency. They seem to want us to pay for their mistakes with every penny we have.

I actually think their dislike of us goes back many generations. hundreds of years actually I cannot help thinking of the Monty Python film 'The Holy Grail' Can you remember the scene at the castle with the French inside

Panda

Yes and thank you and also I forgot your kind thanks for while you were away. I am not as fiscal literate as you so I was only able to post articles really. It was my pleasure till you returned.

Have just heard on the news that the Kozy (latter part of Merkozy - ) has said he can work with Cameron on Libya and other discussions there is not a doubt.

Well - so very kind of Kozy to say that - I mean why isn't Cameron asking him to come and take over our parliament completely. What Kozy fails to understand is that he is only "a tool" in Mer's hands. He fulfills whatever purpose Mer has in mind

deleted- decided to remove this myself.

Angelique wrote:Panda

Yes and thank you and also I forgot your kind thanks for while you were away. I am not as fiscal literate as you so I was only able to post articles really. It was my pleasure till you returned.

Have just heard on the news that the Kozy (latter part of Merkozy - ) has said he can work with Cameron on Libya and other discussions there is not a doubt.

Well - so very kind of Kozy to say that - I mean why isn't Cameron asking him to come and take over our parliament completely. What Kozy fails to understand is that he is only "a tool" in Mer's hands. He fulfills whatever purpose Mer has in mind

Hello Angelique. Sarko lost his temper so much in the meeting he had to be physically restrained plus he would not shake Camerons hand! Shows what sort of President he is. I would not trust him as far as I could throw him. Especially on things like Libya. He is planning to throw us to the wolves first chance he gets

Hi fuzeta,

I remember when the Holy Grail was released it caused a lot of controversy, I never saw it , but I did see Life of Brian. That 45 mile stretch of water has
made Britain rather insular and the history of warfare between Britain , France and Germany has spanned several Centuries and we really don"t like them
do we.