Was this in the files??

jinvta wrote:
What bothers me about Kate's statement about the note is that she is claiming to be horrified about finding out about the note, but yet she still claims to have done nothing wrong in leaving the kids alone. How can an innocent note about a neglectful act be considered worse than the act itself? It is as if she is saying that what she was doing was perfectly fine, as long as nobody knew about it. Kind of like those people who believe that anything is legal as long as you don't get caught. Further, Gerry told a complete stranger (Jez) about their child-minding arrangements, so Kate should have been equally horrified about Gerry's slip of the tongue.

Message to Kate: You cannot be horrified about anything you do being spread publicly, unless you KNOW for a fact that what you are doing is wrong. Admitting horror over finding your neglect being publicly displayed, is admitting that you know that it was wrong to leave the children alone.

Well said jinvta you've hit the nail firmly on the head there.

I'm more inclined to believe the note did not exist (l'll believe it when l see it) as l also note that Kate does not seem to want to criticise MW. If you read the passage again and compare it to everything she says about Mr.Amaral or 'the f**king t*sser'...

"This book was by definition accessible to all staff and, albeit unintentionally, probably to guests and visitors, too. To my horror, I saw that, no doubt in all innocence and simply to explain why she was bending the rules a bit, the receptionist had added the reason for our request: we wanted to eat close to our apartments as we were leaving our young children alone there and checking on them intermittently."

She's not keen to stick the boot in is she?

Remember also if it was true they had to be called back from Chaplins then l would expect a note to be in the staff diary about it, (akin to: complaint about children crying in Apartment 5a - parents had left them alone) maybe it was this she got wind about and we're hearing McSpin.

NoStone wrote:Kate is trying to paint two pictures here - one that she is diligently going through the files and secondly - Oh look here is some NEW information that suggests the 'abductor' could have had intelligence that helped him/them.

If it is not in the files then this shows two things as well - that Kate is lies (NO! I hear you say!!) and secondly, that she did not bargain for the files to be translated and so publically available. This of course is why they wanted exclusive access to the files, so they could spin and embroider to weave around their own thesis. IMO of course!!!

i agree. i also think kate is appealing to her "target" audience with her book, the target audience being those who have not yet questioned the mccanns. kate is giving the impression that not only were they dealing with incompetent police but also incompetent staff at the ocean club. poor them.

it is rather a long sentance for somebody to have written, particularly the bit about checking on the children intermittently. why not say kids alone, they want to be near their apartments full stop. or even just kids alone. if any staff member wanted a longer explanation they only had to ask the person who took the booking.

I don't believe the McCanns told the receptionist that the reason they wanted a block booking was because they were leaving their children unsupervised in their apartment. If they needed to use the kids as an excuse, they could have said they were leaving their children with a babysitter and needed to be close to the apartment, should their be a problem.

Kate has contradicted herself so many times in her book of sex, filth and lies. I hope that the PJ Scotland Yard have read this book and compared it with the McCanns statements, back in 2007. For instance the McCanns admitted they never physically searched for Madeleine, one of the excuses they gave, was because it was dark. Kate has written in her book that she and her husband, were the only ones searching for Madeleine, on the night she disappeared. I can only imagine how the police, the locals, the holidaymakers and the staff of Warner, must have felt, if they read this passage from the book. They were all out searching for Madeleine, while the McCanns and their Tapas mates, were in the McCanns apartment, getting their stories straight and making phone calls.

I guess there's another subliminal message in this for us to swollow which is this:- Look how considerate we were in our negligence - we even ordered a table so we see the apartment quiet clearly and could ensure our children were..........

.......(safe from harm!!!!????? Whoops!! If only it had'nt have been for that damm window at the front where someone with malicious intent went through.....and took Madeleine from the safety and security of her family' - as witnessed by Aunti Phil - from the safety and securiity of her Liverpool home)

Auntie Phil actually lives in Ullapool in the north of Scotland so her personal knowledge of what happened is even more remarkable!

NoStone wrote:I guess there's another subliminal message in this for us to swollow which is this:- Look how considerate we were in our negligence - we even ordered a table so we see the apartment quiet clearly and could ensure our children were..........

.......(safe from harm!!!!????? Whoops!! If only it had'nt have been for that damm window at the front where someone with malicious intent went through.....and took Madeleine from the safety and security of her family' - as witnessed by Aunti Phil - from the safety and securiity of her Liverpool home)

Yes, they made the block booking so they'd get the same table every night, from where they could see the very top few inches of their patio doors. No 8ft tall abductor was going to escape their eagle eyes! No sir!

LJC wrote:So, are they accusing a member of staff of being the abductor? I would have thought all staff members would have been scrutinised by the PJ and Leics Cops. I remember someone trying to link this to a disgruntled ex member of staff, but even ex members of staff would not have access to this book, let alone the general public.

Yes, the suggestion it was a disgruntled ex member of staff was made in the anonymous letter to Prince Charles IIRC

duncanmac wrote:

LJC wrote:So, are they accusing a member of staff of being the abductor? I would have thought all staff members would have been scrutinised by the PJ and Leics Cops. I remember someone trying to link this to a disgruntled ex member of staff, but even ex members of staff would not have access to this book, let alone the general public.

Yes, the suggestion it was a disgruntled ex member of staff was made in the anonymous letter to Prince Charles IIRC

Yes, that's right, thank you duncanmac. And Kate's point about the book being left on 'a desk' in reception for all to see is a play on words and is a deliberate attempt to con people into thinking that the desk that she refers to was the main reception desk where guests and other non-staff wait to be attended to (what I would call the front-counter). A desk, as such, would be behind the counter, and Kate definitelty says 'a desk' not 'the desk'. Its clever, but its a con and she's clutching at straws with this one.

Gerry booming voice McCann not only told Wilkins that they were leaving their children unattended, but I seem to remember he also told other guests who were 'dining' in the restaurant.

margaret wrote:

Remember also if it was true they had to be called back from Chaplins then l would expect a note to be in the staff diary about it, (akin to: complaint about children crying in Apartment 5a - parents had left them alone) maybe it was this she got wind about and we're hearing McSpin.

I don't get the feeling this was a staff diary, but a Bookings Record. I think I've seen a copy of it in the Police files... it has the initials of the guests and their apartment numbers for the table bookings for various evenings.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4475-tapas-reservation-sheets

edited to add link to table booking sheets, (no reference made to checking kids intermittently)

For starters, there was a plastic floor length Curtain covering the window which would make it even more difficult to see their Apartment. Secondly ,
her plea that she should have uestioned Madeleine more closely is ridiculous, any Parents would have gone straight back to their Apartment
after dinner and stayed there to make sure their children were O.K. .One night they were drinking in the Tapas Bar until 11.45pm. Mrs Fenn's statement
said Madeleine was crying from 9.30pm til 10.45pm so where was the check that night????
I don't believe for one minute that the Receptionist made a note as to why the Tapas 9 wanted a Table facing their apartments . Kate has got away with so many lies it's a wonder she wasn uestioned by the PJ about the disparity in their timelines once they had Mrs Fenn's Statement.

I think it is possible that the receptionist left a note that someone from the group requested a block booking in order to be close to the apartments. However, I don't believe for a minute that whomever made the block booking mentioned anything about their intentions to leave the children alone every night. So, even if their was some type of note, it is highly doubtful that it contained anything about the children being left alone.

I don't know how Kate gets away with her lies. Is there any way to confirm whether or not this note was in the files, and if it was, what exactly it was that the note said? Amaral must know for sure.

jinvta wrote:I think it is possible that the receptionist left a note that someone from the group requested a block booking in order to be close to the apartments. However, I don't believe for a minute that whomever made the block booking mentioned anything about their intentions to leave the children alone every night. So, even if their was some type of note, it is highly doubtful that it contained anything about the children being left alone.

I don't know how Kate gets away with her lies. Is there any way to confirm whether or not this note was in the files, and if it was, what exactly it was that the note said? Amaral must know for sure.

It might look as though she has at the moment, but I'm certain that at the end of the day, she won't have.

T4two wrote:

jinvta wrote:I think it is possible that the receptionist left a note that someone from the group requested a block booking in order to be close to the apartments. However, I don't believe for a minute that whomever made the block booking mentioned anything about their intentions to leave the children alone every night. So, even if their was some type of note, it is highly doubtful that it contained anything about the children being left alone.

I don't know how Kate gets away with her lies. Is there any way to confirm whether or not this note was in the files, and if it was, what exactly it was that the note said? Amaral must know for sure.

It might look as though she has at the moment, but I'm certain that at the end of the day, she won't have.

Like most people, I have followed this case from day one. I have watched all of the McCanns media interviews and I never, ever, heard the McCanns speak of Madeleine telling them she and Sean woke up, until I saw the McCanns media interview, which was shown on the first anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance.

In the McCanns previous interviews, they were asked about the reports of the childen crying when they were out, the McCanns said the reports were untrue, they said once their children were asleep, they never woke up. The only time the McCanns could say their children never woke up once asleep, was if they had sedated them.

In a media interview, shown around the time of the 4th anniversary of Madeleine's disappearance. The McCanns spoke once again, of Madeleine telling them how she and Sean had woken up and cried. Kate repeated what she and her husband had previously said, which was had they cried when they were going to sleep or when they were in the bath. She then said, was Madeleine talking about when Sean and Amalie woken up and cried, which was the previous evening to the one where Madeleine and Sean had woken up and cried.

It's plainly obvious that the reports of the children crying were true, because Kate herself has given two scenarios. It is absolutely appalling that these two child neglecters, can say so matter of fact "we nearly didn't go out."

Another thing the McCanns spoke of, is when they said they wanted to go to the Millenium with the children, but they decided not to, because they didn't have a buggy. A few days before Madeleine disappeared, the McCanns took their children out of the creche and visited a small town. I can't remember the name of the place they visited, but I read that a shopkeeper told the media, that he remembered the McCanns visiting their town. He said they were pushing a buggy and Madeleine was walking alongside of them. I read this information on Jill Havern's Forumotion. I'm fairly sure that if a poster on here, has posted or still posts on Jill's forum, they will remember this information, because a photo copy of the time Madeleine was signed in and out of the crech was posted at the same time.

The photocopy of the creche register, shows that Madeleine was signed into the creche after lunch and then signed out again pretty quickly. The McCanns then took the Madeleine and the twins, to this town at around 16:30 and while I can't remember the name of the town, I'm fairly sure it is the same place where the McCanns detectives, believe that Madeleine was being held. I know there was a discussion about this event and the fact that the McCanns had a buggy then, but they didn't have one on the night they wanted to go to the Millenium.

Whether the McCanns had a buggy or not, it is a poor excuse for not going to the Millenium, I know at least one of the Tapas couples had a buggy, so the McCanns children could easily have been carried by the McCanns and the other half of the couple who had a buggy, should the children had got tired if they had decided to go to the Millenium.

For what it's worth, I don't believe the McCanns had any intention of going to the Millenium. I know it's only a theory, but if Madeleine did tell the McCanns that she and Sean woke up and cried for them when they were out, I believe the twins were taken to the apartment of the couple who had a monitor and Madeleine was going to be sedated. I believe something happened to Madeleine, either purposely or accidently, before the McCanns went out.

Regarding the twins not being in the McCanns apartment, on the night Madeleine disappeared and I have said this so many times on different forums. There are photographs of the children's bedroom in the files, that were taken on the night Madeleine "disappeared." Madeleine's bed is complete with bedding and so is the spare bed that Kate supposedly slept in, when she had a row with Gerry.

The twins cots have no bedding, just bare mattresses, I thought this was rather strange when I saw the photographs. In 2010, when the McCanns were in Portugal, trying to get Goncalo Amaral's book permanently banned, Gerry was on the steps of the Lisbon Court, he said how he an his wife regretted leaving Madeleine alone in their apartment, on the night Madeleine disappeared.

Sandra Felgueiras, a Portuguese journalist, was also outside the court and she must have heard Gerry say what he said, because she asked Kate in a media interview a few months later, if the twins were in the apartment, on the night Madeleine disappeared. Kate refused to answer Sandra, so Sandra asked her again, she still refused to answer Sandra.

We just have to hope that S.Y. are now trawling through the McCanns media interviews. In my opinion, these media interviews, are as important as the interviews the McCanns gave to the PJ. If S.Y. do scrutinise these media interviews, I hope that they have copies of Kate's book of sex and lies. Although I haven't bought the book, I have seen passages from the book on the 'net and there are things she has written in the book, that contradict what she has said in her media interviews.

At least S.Y. should be able to conduct this review, without having one hand tied behind their backs, unlike the PJ, who never stood a chance, once the British Government started intervening. In my humble opinion.

Morning kathybelle,

In that video it was so obvious that Kate was lying , Gerry looked uite sad I thought. That remark "we had thought of going to the Millenium " says it all......they would rather lug the 3 children to Dinner , probably missing their 7.30pm bedtime than dine at the Tapas Bar and go back to the Apartment.
This is not one child we are talking about, there were 3 who could have woken up at any time and the McCanns knew Madeleine was prone to waking up.

I think the shelved files will provide some interesting evidence .

[quote="LJC"]"It wasn't until a year later, when I was combing through the Portuguese police files, that I discovered that the note requesting our block booking was written in a staff message book, which sat on a desk at the pool reception for most of the day. This book was by definition accessible to all staff and, albeit unintentionally, probably to guests and visitors, too. To my horror, I saw that, no doubt in all innocence and simply to explain why she was bending the rules a bit, the receptionist had added the reason for our request: we wanted to eat close to our apartments as we were leaving our young children alone there and checking on them intermittently."

Hang on a minute, this specifically says a desk. Receptions usually have a counter for dealing with enquiries, then they have the desk/s at the rear of the counter where only staff have access to, plus shelving on the back wall which is usually divided up for each room number. Therefore, the use of the word desk means, to my mind, exactly that which would be located at the rear of the counter, upon which there was probably a fax machine and where the staff book would be kept. I am certain this staff book would not be kept on the counter for all and sundry to look at.

By the way, is the picture above of the reception at OC the same one as the Pool Reception? Is there more than one reception?[/quote]

That is a photo of the main 24 hour reception which is situated down, close to the sea front. The tapas bar is further up the village, and has a small reception desk on the right hand side, where you show your OC member club card to be allowed access to the pool, tennis, bar area. I would imagine that is where the Mccanns make their reservation. if the 'abductor' got to see the book, then he must have been a member of the Ocean Club to gain access to see it, Kate is basically talking bollocks as usual, shoving the blame from herself and her own negligence to blame anyone and everyone.

Panda wrote:


Morning kathybelle,

In that video it was so obvious that Kate was lying , Gerry looked uite sad I thought. That remark "we had thought of going to the Millenium " says it all......they would rather lug the 3 children to Dinner , probably missing their 7.30pm bedtime than dine at the Tapas Bar and go back to the Apartment.
This is not one child we are talking about, there were 3 who could have woken up at any time and the McCanns knew Madeleine was prone to waking up.

I think the shelved files will provide some interesting evidence .

Good morning Panda

This is what I don't get about the McCanns. At some point in their career, they will have dealt with children who have been harmed because their parents left them unsupervised, when they went out. Social Services and the police will have been involved with these cases and the McCanns will have spoke to these people.

However the McCanns didn't need to be doctors, to know the perils of leaving children unsupervised for any amount of time. They weren't a couple of naive teenagers, they were approaching middle age and they should have had enough common sense to know that what they were doing was very unsafe.

The McCanns shouldn't have left any of their children unsupervised when they went out, but because Madeleine was now sleeping in a bed, she above the twins, should have been the main reason why the McCanns should never have left their children unsupervised. Those of us who have had children, will have first hand experience of how a toddler can come to harm, when we turn our backs for a couple of seconds. Madeleine could have climbed out of bed and create havoc, while her parents were elsewhere.

Although I certainly believe the McCanns children, were left unsupervised while the McCanns were out, I don't believe this is the case on the night Madeleine disappeared, for the reasons I stated in my previous post and reasons I made in another post, when I said that if Madeleine had disappeared for whatever reason, at least one of the McCanns and most of their Tapas friends, would have been out searching for her. The fact that they were all in the McCanns apartment along with the McCanns, shows to me they all knew that whatever happened to Madeleine, she was never, ever going to be found, dead or alive.

What puzzles me is, if the McCanns friends were all in their apartment, where were their children? Unless they were all in the apartment of the couple who brought their mother/mother-in-law to babysit and she looked after the children, while the rest of the group got their stories straight.

Surely Scotland Yard should have read those shelved files by now, including the files the McCanns wanted so desparately, but were refused access to. As you say Panda those files will provide some interesting evidence.

I'm waiting with baited breath, to see what the outcome is, if the McCanns lawyer, doesn't return those 7500 copies ofGoncalo Amaral book. If the books aren't returned, I hope they all end up in jail.

I'm also waiting with baited breath, to see what will be outcome of the cases between the McCanns v Goncalo Amaral and the McCanns v Tony Bennett. Plus the case between Pat Brown v the McCanns. If the McCanns lose these cases, Madeleine will be the ultimate loser, because it is her fund that will pay the costs of these failed court cases, not her parents.

Very informative post Kathybelle, and it helped
stir up a few memories of posts of days-gone-bye.
In particular, the 'buggy' issue. Did they or didn't
they take some sort of mode of transport on holiday
when having three tots to deal with?
I find it flys in the face of logic and basic common
sense if they didn't, as they say!
How did they cope with embarking their Easyjet?
And I believe that buggies are free to travel, so it
wouldn't be a cost issue or even a curtailment issue
because a buggy would be a bigger help than a
hinderence.
I find their statement that they didn't have a buggy
totally absurd. In fact, the more I ponder over it, I
believe its a great big porky which needs further
investigation. So why lie? Unless they need to
distance themselves from this buggy because it
may hold vital incriminating evidence or it may
have had a role in the 'abduction'?

Kathy, Madeleine was always the loser, from the time she cried for over an hour and no-one came to comfort her to her Parents spending more money
from the Fund on Legal fees rather than searching for her. One thing puzzles me. Mrs Fenn says the crying stopped when the Parents arrived......
how come Kate says Madeleine told her the next morning? Madeleine would have been awake probably with a tear stained face so Kate and Gerry
would have known she had been crying. Unless Mrs Fenn misjudged when the crying stopped and Madeleine was asleep when the McCanns returned.

Panda wrote:

Kathy, Madeleine was always the loser, from the time she cried for over an hour and no-one came to comfort her to her Parents spending more money
from the Fund on Legal fees rather than searching for her. One thing puzzles me. Mrs Fenn says the crying stopped when the Parents arrived......
how come Kate says Madeleine told her the next morning? Madeleine would have been awake probably with a tear stained face so Kate and Gerry
would have known she had been crying. Unless Mrs Fenn misjudged when the crying stopped and Madeleine was asleep when the McCanns returned.

I think Mrs fenn was spot on with the times, as she was certain it was just when the news finished

fred wrote:

Panda wrote:

Kathy, Madeleine was always the loser, from the time she cried for over an hour and no-one came to comfort her to her Parents spending more money
from the Fund on Legal fees rather than searching for her. One thing puzzles me. Mrs Fenn says the crying stopped when the Parents arrived......
how come Kate says Madeleine told her the next morning? Madeleine would have been awake probably with a tear stained face so Kate and Gerry
would have known she had been crying. Unless Mrs Fenn misjudged when the crying stopped and Madeleine was asleep when the McCanns returned.

I think Mrs fenn was spot on with the times, as she was certain it was just when the news finished

Morning fred. Mrs Fenn said she always watched the BBC News which finishes at 10.25pm and Madeleine cried until 10.45pm, "as soon as the Parents returned the crying stopped" No disrespects to Mrs Fenn, but wouldn't you phone the OC to tell Reception a child in 5a had been crying for over an
hour?

You know Panda, I'm not sure if I would or not. I know that sounds awful, but I honestly don't know. Didn't Mrs F 'phone her niece in the next village to tell her about the crying, or have I dreamed that?

fred wrote:You know Panda, I'm not sure if I would or not. I know that sounds awful, but I honestly don't know. Didn't Mrs F 'phone her niece in the next village to tell her about the crying, or have I dreamed that?

Yes she did, apparently there had been a previous complaint about Madeleine crying by a Holidaymaker at PDL. fred, if I heard a child crying for an hour when the News finished I would definitely have phoned Reception.....what if Madeleine had been injured?

marxman wrote:Very informative post Kathybelle, and it helped
stir up a few memories of posts of days-gone-bye.
In particular, the 'buggy' issue. Did they or didn't
they take some sort of mode of transport on holiday
when having three tots to deal with?
I find it flys in the face of logic and basic common
sense if they didn't, as they say!
How did they cope with embarking their Easyjet?
And I believe that buggies are free to travel, so it
wouldn't be a cost issue or even a curtailment issue
because a buggy would be a bigger help than a
hinderence.
I find their statement that they didn't have a buggy
totally absurd. In fact, the more I ponder over it, I
believe its a great big porky which needs further
investigation. So why lie? Unless they need to
distance themselves from this buggy because it
may hold vital incriminating evidence or it may
have had a role in the 'abduction'?

Marxman - they don`t appear to have the twin buggy with them on the airport bus, unless it was folded up to get through the bus door and stored somewhere behind David as he was filming. Fiona has got her single buggy onboard ok but maybe it was easier to lift up and through the door. Do twin buggies fold down?

Î know it is to late now, but I bet CCTV in the airport at either Faro or Bristol (Is that where they flew from?) could have proved one way or the other if they had a buggy.