Re: Was this in the files??

**Panda** Thu 22 Mar - 13:36

I read they didn't have a Buggy but rented one after afew days, maybe once they had the car and went to Huelva, I don't remember seeing any
photos of the twins in one.

**T4two** Thu 22 Mar - 13:41

Oldartform wrote:
marxman wrote:Very informative post Kathybelle, and it helped
stir up a few memories of posts of days-gone-bye.
In particular, the 'buggy' issue. Did they or didn't
they take some sort of mode of transport on holiday
when having three tots to deal with?
I find it flys in the face of logic and basic common
sense if they didn't, as they say!
How did they cope with embarking their Easyjet?
And I believe that buggies are free to travel, so it
wouldn't be a cost issue or even a curtailment issue
because a buggy would be a bigger help than a
hinderence.
I find their statement that they didn't have a buggy
totally absurd. In fact, the more I ponder over it, I
believe its a great big porky which needs further
investigation. So why lie? Unless they need to
distance themselves from this buggy because it
may hold vital incriminating evidence or it may
have had a role in the 'abduction'?

Marxman - they don`t appear to have the twin buggy with them on the airport bus, unless it was folded up to get through the bus door and stored somewhere behind David as he was filming. Fiona has got her single buggy onboard ok but maybe it was easier to lift up and through the door. Do twin buggies fold down?

They could have sent the buggy with the luggage of course which means it wouldn't appear in the bus video, only after collecting the suitcases.
ETA Can't believe that parents with 3 young children, two of them toddlers, would not take a buggy on holiday even if only for transporting them to the creche and back to the apartment.

Oldartform Thu 22 Mar - 16:25

T4two wrote:
Oldartform wrote:
marxman wrote:Very informative post Kathybelle, and it helped
stir up a few memories of posts of days-gone-bye.
In particular, the 'buggy' issue. Did they or didn't
they take some sort of mode of transport on holiday
when having three tots to deal with?
I find it flys in the face of logic and basic common
sense if they didn't, as they say!
How did they cope with embarking their Easyjet?
And I believe that buggies are free to travel, so it
wouldn't be a cost issue or even a curtailment issue
because a buggy would be a bigger help than a
hinderence.
I find their statement that they didn't have a buggy
totally absurd. In fact, the more I ponder over it, I
believe its a great big porky which needs further
investigation. So why lie? Unless they need to
distance themselves from this buggy because it
may hold vital incriminating evidence or it may
have had a role in the 'abduction'?

Marxman - they don`t appear to have the twin buggy with them on the airport bus, unless it was folded up to get through the bus door and stored somewhere behind David as he was filming. Fiona has got her single buggy onboard ok but maybe it was easier to lift up and through the door. Do twin buggies fold down?

They could have sent the buggy with the luggage of course which means it wouldn't appear in the bus video, only after collecting the suitcases.
ETA Can't believe that parents with 3 young children, two of them toddlers, would not take a buggy on holiday even if only for transporting them to the creche and back to the apartment.

That makes sense T4Two.

**Panda** Thu 22 Mar - 16:31

Didn't Kate say in that Video though that the reason they did not go the the Millenium was it was uite a distance and they didn't have a Buggy.?

marxman Thu 22 Mar - 16:47

Panda wrote:Didn't Kate say in that Video though that the reason they did not go the the Millenium was it was uite a distance and they didn't have a Buggy.?

Hi Panda, I believe she did, and I really think
this is a smoking gun. Why not take a buggy?
A double or two singles. Why make a holiday
extra work and more stressful for both kids
and parents? Kids get tired, restless and sleepy
especially in hot climes, so taking anything
that provides relief and ease would seem both
logical and enjoyable to a welcome break.
Ah well, they said they didn't hire a car or
have credit cards too so it may have been one
of those holidays from hell! No car-no buggy-
no cards. NO way says I.

**Panda** Thu 22 Mar - 17:08

marxman wrote:
Panda wrote:Didn't Kate say in that Video though that the reason they did not go the the Millenium was it was uite a distance and they didn't have a Buggy.?

Hi Panda, I believe she did, and I really think
this is a smoking gun. Why not take a buggy?
A double or two singles. Why make a holiday
extra work and more stressful for both kids
and parents? Kids get tired, restless and sleepy
especially in hot climes, so taking anything
that provides relief and ease would seem both
logical and enjoyable to a welcome break.
Ah well, they said they didn't hire a car or
have credit cards too so it may have been one
of those holidays from hell! No car-no buggy-

Hi marxman, they obviously thought a Tennis Bag and jogging gear more important. I thought the Scenic was hired by the McCanns? Kate
didn't drive it though because she didn't bring her Licence.
no cards. NO way says I.

**Badboy** Thu 22 Mar - 18:35

fred wrote:You know Panda, I'm not sure if I would or not. I know that sounds awful, but I honestly don't know. Didn't Mrs F 'phone her niece in the next village to tell her about the crying, or have I dreamed that?

IT WAS ACTUALLY A FRIEND CALLED GLYN

mossman Thu 22 Mar - 20:27

i know i have read before that mark warner provided buggies for use by their guests. i cannot remember right now where i read this but i am certain i did.

having had three chilren in similar ages to the mccanns, certainly many of the places we have stayed provided a buggy if required. when a twin buggy was too cumbersome for us to take with us, we would have taken one light stroller and then used the one provided at the resort on arrival. like the mccanns our eldest was old enough to walk, so we would both then push a buggy with one of the smaller two in each. not ideal but was fine for a week's holiday.

i do not believe they travelled with twins of that age without having access to a buggy, either by way of taking their own, or one being available at the resort.

kathybelle Thu 22 Mar - 21:07

I've been looking for information about the place the McCanns were supposed to have visited, on or around the 30th of April 2007. I read that a shopkeeper remembered the McCanns visiting the town/village/commune and they were pushing a buggy and Madeleine was walking alongside them.

I'm fairly sure I read this information on Jill Havern's forum, because posters were commenting on the fact that the McCanns said they didn't have a buggy. Also I'm fairly sure that this place, was supposed to be in, or around the place where Dave Edgar, says Madeleine is being held in a hellish lair. I definitely read this information, but if it is true, the information doesn't appear to be in the files. I'll keep looking.

I know one thing, the McCanns definitely had a buggy after Madeleine disappeared, because they were photographed pushing the buggy.

**Badboy** Thu 22 Mar - 21:08

kathybelle wrote:I've been looking for information about the place the McCanns were supposed to have visited, on or around the 30th of April 2007. I read that a shopkeeper remembered the McCanns visiting the town/village/commune and they were pushing a buggy and Madeleine was walking alongside them.

I'm fairly sure I read this information on Jill Havern's forum, because posters were commenting on the fact that the McCanns said they didn't have a buggy. Also I'm fairly sure that this place, was supposed to be in, or around the place where Dave Edgar, says Madeleine is being held in a hellish lair. I definitely read this information, but if it is true, the information doesn't appear to be in the files. I'll keep looking.

I know one thing, the McCanns definitely had a buggy after Madeleine disappeared, because they were photographed pushing the buggy.

SAGRES?

kathybelle Thu 22 Mar - 21:15

Badboy wrote:
kathybelle wrote:I've been looking for information about the place the McCanns were supposed to have visited, on or around the 30th of April 2007. I read that a shopkeeper remembered the McCanns visiting the town/village/commune and they were pushing a buggy and Madeleine was walking alongside them.

I'm fairly sure I read this information on Jill Havern's forum, because posters were commenting on the fact that the McCanns said they didn't have a buggy. Also I'm fairly sure that this place, was supposed to be in, or around the place where Dave Edgar, says Madeleine is being held in a hellish lair. I definitely read this information, but if it is true, the information doesn't appear to be in the files. I'll keep looking.

I know one thing, the McCanns definitely had a buggy after Madeleine disappeared, because they were photographed pushing the buggy.
SAGRES?

That's the place Badboy thank you for posting it. Did you see this information by any chance, on Jill's forum? If you did you will remember a photo copy of the creche register for that day. I'm fairly sure that the Madeleine was signed into the creche then signed out again around 45 minutes later. I don't remember a photo copy of creche record, which showed the twins being signed in and out, for the same day.

The McCanns were supposed to have set off or arrived at Sagres. at around 16:30hrs, because posters were saying it seemed rather late for the McCanns to take their children to Sagres.

I'm going to see what I can find out about Sagres, Badboy, so once again thanks for posting it on here.

kathybelle Thu 22 Mar - 21:26

I've just found the information on Jill Havern's forum. The link is below.

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t1581-the-mccanns-family-trip-to-sagres-30th-april.

**T4two** Thu 22 Mar - 21:36

Badboy wrote:
kathybelle wrote:I've been looking for information about the place the McCanns were supposed to have visited, on or around the 30th of April 2007. I read that a shopkeeper remembered the McCanns visiting the town/village/commune and they were pushing a buggy and Madeleine was walking alongside them.

I'm fairly sure I read this information on Jill Havern's forum, because posters were commenting on the fact that the McCanns said they didn't have a buggy. Also I'm fairly sure that this place, was supposed to be in, or around the place where Dave Edgar, says Madeleine is being held in a hellish lair. I definitely read this information, but if it is true, the information doesn't appear to be in the files. I'll keep looking.

I know one thing, the McCanns definitely had a buggy after Madeleine disappeared, because they were photographed pushing the buggy.
SAGRES?

That's the place. Big discussion about it on 3As I recall. Also that macabre-looking twin buggy with the dark drapes which GM was almost never seen without in the early days sent shivers down my spine. Strange thing about that - before Madeleine's disappearance they couldn't be bothered with buggies and afterwards they were very rarely seen without one.

kathybelle Thu 22 Mar - 22:10

T4two wrote:
Badboy wrote:
kathybelle wrote:I've been looking for information about the place the McCanns were supposed to have visited, on or around the 30th of April 2007. I read that a shopkeeper remembered the McCanns visiting the town/village/commune and they were pushing a buggy and Madeleine was walking alongside them.

I'm fairly sure I read this information on Jill Havern's forum, because posters were commenting on the fact that the McCanns said they didn't have a buggy. Also I'm fairly sure that this place, was supposed to be in, or around the place where Dave Edgar, says Madeleine is being held in a hellish lair. I definitely read this information, but if it is true, the information doesn't appear to be in the files. I'll keep looking.

I know one thing, the McCanns definitely had a buggy after Madeleine disappeared, because they were photographed pushing the buggy.
SAGRES?

That's the place. Big discussion about it on 3As I recall. Also that macabre-looking twin buggy with the dark drapes which GM was almost never seen without in the early days sent shivers down my spine. Strange thing about that - before Madeleine's disappearance they couldn't be bothered with buggies and afterwards they were very rarely seen without one.

Hello T4two

I've just found the photo copy of the creche register for the 30th of April 2007 and other dates. I'll put the link on here, but I have to say that the copy isn't very clear. If you click on the copy, you will enlarge it and you can quite clearly see what time Madeleine was signed in and out.

I got the times wrong.

http:www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm

I know what you mean about that buggy, because I remember seeing a photograph of Gerry pushing it, on another forum. The cover was right up to the hood, you couldn't see who or what was inside of it, but whatever it was, it was bulky. It sent shivers down my spine, especially as Gerry had his usual sickly grin on his face.

I had visions of Gerry pushing a dead Madeleine in that buggy, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the twins weren't in the buggy, if they were the cover would not have been right up to the hood. In fact there would have been no cover on the buggy at all, because it was a nice day. Maybe Gerry purposely put something in the buggy and put the cover up to the hood, to make people think Madeleine's body was inside of it. Then he could visit forums and have a laugh at all the "Sherlock Holmes's" on the forums, putting two and two together and making five.

Gerry once called us nutters and sad individuals and he was laughing when he said it. I've never found anything funny about this case, but he has, how he can laugh when his daughter had been put through a traumatic experience, I don't know. It proves to me just what a heartless barsteward he is. His wife is no better in my opinion, I've seen plenty photos of her laughing and smiling, when she should have been crying. I will never forget the photo of the McCanns laughing outside church on what would have been Madeleine's 4th birthday.

It's photos like that one, that makes me believe the McCanns are more involved with Madeleine's disappearance, than neglect. As well as the lies they told and the fact they admitted they never physically searched for Madeleine.

I know I'm going off on a tangent again, but I can't help it, when I think of the situation Madeleine was put in, by the "gruesome twosome".

**wjk** Thu 22 Mar - 22:13

Hi kathy, the records can be found here too on MM
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8413-the-creche-files

Guest Thu 22 Mar - 22:22

Here's a link to the photos that Kathybelle mentioned - you can see feet in picture A but not in picture B.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/KM_GM%20(4).jpg

**wjk** Thu 22 Mar - 22:25

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Here's a link to the photos that Kathybelle mentioned - you can see feet in picture A but not in picture B.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/KM_GM%20(4).jpg

Ah yes, I remember those pics and the discussions about the 2 buggys they were pictured with.

kathybelle Thu 22 Mar - 22:55

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Here's a link to the photos that Kathybelle mentioned - you can see feet in picture A but not in picture B.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/KM_GM%20(4).jpg

Thanks for putting the link to the photos on here N.B.Y., as I said in my previous post, the photo of Gerry pushing the buggy, that sticks in my mind, is the one where he is laughing.

I don't know why the McCanns have the cover on the buggy where the twins are in it. It can't be to hide the twins faces, because at that time, the McCanns were using the twins for as many photo opportunities as they could. In my opinion, they were trying to brainwash the public, into thinking that they were loving responsible parents, who wouldn't do anything to put their children's lives in danger.

Unfortunately, the McCanns haven't brainwashed as many people as they would like to have done, the internet is full of forums that see the McCanns for what they are.

kathybelle Thu 22 Mar - 23:11

wjk wrote:Hi kathy, the records can be found here too on MM
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8413-the-creche-files

Thanks wjk. Was this in the files?? - Page 3 944533

marxman Fri 23 Mar - 8:56

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Here's a link to the photos that Kathybelle mentioned - you can see feet in picture A but not in picture B.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/KM_GM%20(4).jpg

Thanks NBY, from having no buggies to
having buggies galore! The photos show
two different styles so where did they
find these? How come they were not
available to them when needed?

NoStone Fri 23 Mar - 9:21

kathybelle wrote:
T4two wrote:
Badboy wrote:
kathybelle wrote:I've been looking for information about the place the McCanns were supposed to have visited, on or around the 30th of April 2007. I read that a shopkeeper remembered the McCanns visiting the town/village/commune and they were pushing a buggy and Madeleine was walking alongside them.

I'm fairly sure I read this information on Jill Havern's forum, because posters were commenting on the fact that the McCanns said they didn't have a buggy. Also I'm fairly sure that this place, was supposed to be in, or around the place where Dave Edgar, says Madeleine is being held in a hellish lair. I definitely read this information, but if it is true, the information doesn't appear to be in the files. I'll keep looking.

I know one thing, the McCanns definitely had a buggy after Madeleine disappeared, because they were photographed pushing the buggy.
SAGRES?

That's the place. Big discussion about it on 3As I recall. Also that macabre-looking twin buggy with the dark drapes which GM was almost never seen without in the early days sent shivers down my spine. Strange thing about that - before Madeleine's disappearance they couldn't be bothered with buggies and afterwards they were very rarely seen without one.

Hello T4two

I've just found the photo copy of the creche register for the 30th of April 2007 and other dates. I'll put the link on here, but I have to say that the copy isn't very clear. If you click on the copy, you will enlarge it and you can quite clearly see what time Madeleine was signed in and out.

I got the times wrong.

http:www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm

I know what you mean about that buggy, because I remember seeing a photograph of Gerry pushing it, on another forum. The cover was right up to the hood, you couldn't see who or what was inside of it, but whatever it was, it was bulky. It sent shivers down my spine, especially as Gerry had his usual sickly grin on his face.

I had visions of Gerry pushing a dead Madeleine in that buggy, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the twins weren't in the buggy, if they were the cover would not have been right up to the hood. In fact there would have been no cover on the buggy at all, because it was a nice day. Maybe Gerry purposely put something in the buggy and put the cover up to the hood, to make people think Madeleine's body was inside of it. Then he could visit forums and have a laugh at all the "Sherlock Holmes's" on the forums, putting two and two together and making five.

Gerry once called us nutters and sad individuals and he was laughing when he said it. I've never found anything funny about this case, but he has, how he can laugh when his daughter had been put through a traumatic experience, I don't know. It proves to me just what a heartless barsteward he is. His wife is no better in my opinion, I've seen plenty photos of her laughing and smiling, when she should have been crying. I will never forget the photo of the McCanns laughing outside church on what would have been Madeleine's 4th birthday.

It's photos like that one, that makes me believe the McCanns are more involved with Madeleine's disappearance, than neglect. As well as the lies they told and the fact they admitted they never physically searched for Madeleine.

I know I'm going off on a tangent again, but I can't help it, when I think of the situation Madeleine was put in, by the "gruesome twosome".

Kathy - do you have a link to Gerry saying that at all please?? I must have missed it.

Also please do remember - it was not "the situation Madeleine was put in, by the "gruesome twosome" - it was "the situation that Madeleine finds herself in"!! Was this in the files?? - Page 3 49091

**margaret** Fri 23 Mar - 9:23

kathybelle wrote:

I had visions of Gerry pushing a dead Madeleine in that buggy, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the twins weren't in the buggy, if they were the cover would not have been right up to the hood. In fact there would have been no cover on the buggy at all, because it was a nice day. Maybe Gerry purposely put something in the buggy and put the cover up to the hood, to make people think Madeleine's body was inside of it. Then he could visit forums and have a laugh at all the "Sherlock Holmes's" on the forums, putting two and two together and making five.

I remember discussions over a photo that showed two limbs poking out of the bottom of the blackout shade, someone was adamant they were arms poking down and not legs, as if you would transport a body upside down in there with journalists following you!

**T4two** Fri 23 Mar - 9:58

marxman wrote:
Not Born Yesterday wrote:Here's a link to the photos that Kathybelle mentioned - you can see feet in picture A but not in picture B.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/KM_GM%20(4).jpg

Thanks NBY, from having no buggies to
having buggies galore! The photos show
two different styles so where did they
find these? How come they were not
available to them when needed?

Obviously they would have been available before, but pehaps they weren't needed? There does seem to be a huge difference in 'before' and 'after' and it's a difference which one would not expect given the circumstances. If 'before' there is an absence of 'happy family' pics and the children's lives seemed to have consisted of a daily routine made up of apartment creche apartment bed, suddenly it's out with mum and dad in the buggy, photographs in the Punch & Judy stand, photos in the zoo park in those little buggy cars - one each for Mum and Dad and smiles all round. One cannot help wondering where Madeleine's place would have been in those pics - or perhaps, whether those pics would have been taken at all if Madeleine had still been around. I know that it was probably PR and all for the benefit of the press etc. but IMO it also reveals their ideas and what they perceive as the ideal family. Madeleine seems forgotten - consigned to the situation she finds herself in.

kathybelle Fri 23 Mar - 19:54

NoStone wrote:
kathybelle wrote:
T4two wrote:
Badboy wrote:
kathybelle wrote:I've been looking for information about the place the McCanns were supposed to have visited, on or around the 30th of April 2007. I read that a shopkeeper remembered the McCanns visiting the town/village/commune and they were pushing a buggy and Madeleine was walking alongside them.

I'm fairly sure I read this information on Jill Havern's forum, because posters were commenting on the fact that the McCanns said they didn't have a buggy. Also I'm fairly sure that this place, was supposed to be in, or around the place where Dave Edgar, says Madeleine is being held in a hellish lair. I definitely read this information, but if it is true, the information doesn't appear to be in the files. I'll keep looking.

I know one thing, the McCanns definitely had a buggy after Madeleine disappeared, because they were photographed pushing the buggy.
SAGRES?

That's the place. Big discussion about it on 3As I recall. Also that macabre-looking twin buggy with the dark drapes which GM was almost never seen without in the early days sent shivers down my spine. Strange thing about that - before Madeleine's disappearance they couldn't be bothered with buggies and afterwards they were very rarely seen without one.

Hello T4two

I've just found the photo copy of the creche register for the 30th of April 2007 and other dates. I'll put the link on here, but I have to say that the copy isn't very clear. If you click on the copy, you will enlarge it and you can quite clearly see what time Madeleine was signed in and out.

I got the times wrong.

http:www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm

I know what you mean about that buggy, because I remember seeing a photograph of Gerry pushing it, on another forum. The cover was right up to the hood, you couldn't see who or what was inside of it, but whatever it was, it was bulky. It sent shivers down my spine, especially as Gerry had his usual sickly grin on his face.

I had visions of Gerry pushing a dead Madeleine in that buggy, I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure the twins weren't in the buggy, if they were the cover would not have been right up to the hood. In fact there would have been no cover on the buggy at all, because it was a nice day. Maybe Gerry purposely put something in the buggy and put the cover up to the hood, to make people think Madeleine's body was inside of it. Then he could visit forums and have a laugh at all the "Sherlock Holmes's" on the forums, putting two and two together and making five.

Gerry once called us nutters and sad individuals and he was laughing when he said it. I've never found anything funny about this case, but he has, how he can laugh when his daughter had been put through a traumatic experience, I don't know. It proves to me just what a heartless barsteward he is. His wife is no better in my opinion, I've seen plenty photos of her laughing and smiling, when she should have been crying. I will never forget the photo of the McCanns laughing outside church on what would have been Madeleine's 4th birthday.

It's photos like that one, that makes me believe the McCanns are more involved with Madeleine's disappearance, than neglect. As well as the lies they told and the fact they admitted they never physically searched for Madeleine.

I know I'm going off on a tangent again, but I can't help it, when I think of the situation Madeleine was put in, by the "gruesome twosome".

Kathy - do you have a link to Gerry saying that at all please?? I must have missed it.

Also please do remember - it was not "the situation Madeleine was put in, by the "gruesome twosome" - it was "the situation that Madeleine finds herself in"!!

Hi No Stone, It was in one of the McCanns interviews, when the McCanns were told that they were being criticised, when Gerry called us nutters and sad individuals. He said we were in the minority, most people believe they had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance. He said they had boxes where they segregated their mail. The hate mail went in one box and the supportive mail went in the other box.

I don't have a link to the interview, but I'm sure I'll come across it on You Tube, I'm always going on there to watch the McCanns interviews. Sometimes I put comments underneath the video and while I often get replies from posters who think the same way as me, I get some really nasty insults from the McCanns supporters. Thankfully they are few and far between.

One of the McCanns supporters, was appalled, when I said the McCanns had admitted they never physically searched for Madeleine. He said it wasn't the McCanns place to look for Madeleine, it was the job of the police to look for her. I was gobsmacked when I read that reply.

NoStone Sat 24 Mar - 2:22

Yes of course I remember this now Kathy - thanks for jogging my memory! Its the same vid that made me smile when the very 'green' Gerry is shown cycling to work! How dutyful!!?? I suppose he still bikes it around to save the fund expense - but we've never seen Kate get on her bike down to Waitrose!! Home delivery I guess??? Was this in the files?? - Page 3 49091

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