Panorama and Shrien Dewani, Thursday

jejune wrote:https://www.facebook.com/Justice4Anni/posts/303385599729331

There are comments about this tv programme on the above link. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post it, but there's been interest in this crime on here, so I thought I'd let people know this is showing. Apparently there's going to be stuff coming out that hasn't yet been in the public arena. It's about time Anni Dewani (and her family) began to get some justice for what happened to her. For somebody who apparently had a lot of debt, Dewani seems to have the money to enable his lawyers to keep delaying things.

I watched this show tonight. I was previously of the perspective that Shiren was involved.

I am now of the perspective that he is innocent.
The money which he was carrying was not much money in scheme of the price of the hotel as well as the price of restaurant etc etc.

I believe that he paid his debts to the driver as any reputable person might following that person also being a victim of the same crime as you.
However, Shiren was not to know the taxi driver was under money worries and I believe that the taxi driver set it all up.
The South American government and media started placing suspicion on Shiren from an early stage to save the reputation of the area and to prevent tourists stopping coming. Prior to the murder in the media I remember on a regular basis there were stories of car jackings in South Africa and they were getting quite a bad reputation.

It is evident of the way the bullet went through her hand and then through her chest that there was a struggle and this is how she got shot.
I believe the suspects which claim they were beaten actually did do it. I believe that they did get beaten though and this caused the brain injury.
It is significant that the taxi driver was shown all the evidence and the cctv footage before hand, I believe he was then enabled to concoct his story.

With regard to the not wanting to discuss money, a lot of business people are like that. They enjoy paying for things quietly and not letting anyone know about it. The cost of the wedding over 3 days says to me that he was someone who just liked to have a certain type of luxury.

Not Born Yesterday wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01f6qvw/Panorama_The_Honeymoon_Murder/

I'm still having difficulty getting past the problem of how he was able to get through a small car window.

I think that bit was possibly a lie to protect his man pride.

Oldartform wrote:Do we know for certain he is faking his mental illness? There was something psychologically flawed in him before the event - quite often mental dysfunctions occur in people whose sexuality is in confusion, we also know he was a control freak and imo, listening to him talk, he sounds very immature. IMO he was a mentally unstable before the event. I`m not surprised he has totally cracked up now. Just my opinion.

Its very difficult to fake a mental illness on a consistent basis over a long period of time.
I agree RE: the sexuality bit.

I believe he killed her before and I still do....he would rather have her killed than a live and have sex with his wife.


He is lying about NOT being gay as not one but TWO independent people...one being a civil servant and his long standing boyfriend and the other a gay prostitute, have stated he had sex with them...so if he is lying about that then he is lying about everything else....he would come out and hold his hands up and say....yes I'm gay but being gay doesn't make me a murderer but no, he won't do that as he wants it all and save face.


As for saying the bullet went through her hand first so it wasn't a 'hit'....that's rubbish as as she still went to defend herself ..is she just to sit there and get shot without any questions ......they took no watch, jewellery or phone....come on, there not exactly rich out the are they, why drop off the man and take the women, why if it was robbery, didnt they take the car, park up, rob the both off them and go..but they didn't, they took the car, dropped the man off....out the window off course ...then drove off with the women....being the man dewani is, he told them to drive off and do the deed.

kitti wrote:I believe he killed her before and I still do....he would rather have her killed than a live and have sex with his wife.


He is lying about NOT being gay as not one but TWO independent people...one being a civil servant and his long standing boyfriend and the other a gay prostitute, have stated he had sex with them...so if he is lying about that then he is lying about everything else....he would come out and hold his hands up and say....yes I'm gay but being gay doesn't make me a murderer but no, he won't do that as he wants it all and save face.


As for saying the bullet went through her hand first so it wasn't a 'hit'....that's rubbish as as she still went to defend herself ..is she just to sit there and get shot without any questions ......they took no watch, jewellery or phone....come on, there not exactly rich out the are they, why drop off the man and take the women, why if it was robbery, didnt they take the car, park up, rob the both off them and go..but they didn't, they took the car, dropped the man off....out the window off course ...then drove off with the women....being the man dewani is, he told them to drive off and do the deed.

What are the key points that leads you to suspect him? I really have reasonable doubt in this one. The stories of the ones in jail are inconsistent.

I don't think being gay, repressed or not is adequate explanation for motivation to kill....
Research doesn't point to people who lie about some things are entirely dishonest. There is selectivity, its not possible to be a perpetual lier as its a lot of balls to keep up in the air. It is plausible that he lied about the window thing to save face, as a man generally, not just a man within a very traditional family of course he would want to portray to all his friends and family that he did everything possible to save her. Its what happens in films isnt it?

I believed the independent witness in the township who worked for the council who thought that Shiren seemed sincere in his upset and panic.
As a bloke, I think its difficult for us to fake our emotion unlike women who can find it easier to pull the waterworks.
The images in the hotel of him crying afterwards also sealed it for me as it was a private moment. The Mccann's can't pull sincere tears.

The amount of money in rand I don't think is significant for someone wealthy who had a wedding that cost that much, nor who is staying at (according to panorama) the most expensive hotel there. I've seen countless people walk around with money like this
So the programme made him out to being a little cheap but the rich have to stay rich some how!
It is plausible that he could have cut a deal with the taxi driver to provide the chauffeur /tour service and he could have been texting him to either hide appearing cheap, or hide the fact that he made a deal which wasn't entirely above board! Lets face it, people that run care homes for the elderly are all about cutting corners to create more of an income.

The passage of the bullet is evidence of a struggle which is different than the clean shot/hit in the neck the police portrayed which is a major discrepancy. They said on the show that the courts may be just but the police are corrupt over there.. this is why I've done a 360 on this one.

Loopdaloop wrote:

I don't think being gay, repressed or not is adequate explanation for motivation to kill....
Research doesn't point to people who lie about some things are entirely dishonest. There is selectivity, its not possible to be a perpetual lier as its a lot of balls to keep up in the air. It is plausible that he lied about the window thing to save face, as a man generally, not just a man within a very traditional family of course he would want to portray to all his friends and family that he did everything possible to save her. Its what happens in films isnt it?

I believed the independent witness in the township who worked for the council who thought that Shiren seemed sincere in his upset and panic.
As a bloke, I think its difficult for us to fake our emotion unlike women who can find it easier to pull the waterworks.
The images in the hotel of him crying afterwards also sealed it for me as it was a private moment. The Mccann's can't pull sincere tears.

The amount of money in rand I don't think is significant for someone wealthy who had a wedding that cost that much, nor who is staying at (according to panorama) the most expensive hotel there. I've seen countless people walk around with money like this
So the programme made him out to being a little cheap but the rich have to stay rich some how!
It is plausible that he could have cut a deal with the taxi driver to provide the chauffeur /tour service and he could have been texting him to either hide appearing cheap, or hide the fact that he made a deal which wasn't entirely above board! Lets face it, people that run care homes for the elderly are all about cutting corners to create more of an income.

The passage of the bullet is evidence of a struggle which is different than the clean shot/hit in the neck the police portrayed which is a major discrepancy. They said on the show that the courts may be just but the police are corrupt over there.. this is why I've done a 360 on this one.

Morning LDLoop - your reasoning is along the same lines as mine, although I`m not completely convinced of his innocence.

I wouldn`t give much credence to the SA police as I believe corruption and injustice is rife, as a couple of the spokespeople said. The same goes for the two criminal`s statements.

I found it hard to believe that, no matter how unbalanced he was, he would have his new wife murdered in such an unsophisticated way let alone arrange for it so soon into their marriage. Also I don`t think being bi-sexual or gay is a strong enough motive for such a final act.

Many men are bi-sexual - the documentary quoted that he had had many girlfriends. Also I wouldn`t give much credence to the testimony of a male prostitute.

Anni`s mum said Anni sounded normal but had something to talk about when she got back - maybe she intended to tell her mum that her new husband had had relations with men. If this was the case she would be reluctant to discuss things like that with her father and could be why she sounded weird to him.

I don`t believe Zola, the taxi driver, would arrange an execution for just £400 (5000 rand) when his salary was good, plus he was moonlighting. Zola`s credentials were that he is a good man, hard worker and without any criminal record. Could be he knew someone a bit dodgy who knew someone even dodgier that hi-jacked tourists and passed word on that he was a tour guide for a very rich couple. Sounds like all he did was drive them through the township in order for the hi-jack to occur. But when it went wrong and a killing occurred he found himself in deep trouble.

When Shrien left Anni at the swimming pool area for 55 mins, he probably told her that he`d better go and get some currency and called Zola to take him to the moneychanger. Vine said it was only about £90 which is barely going to last them an evening or so on honeymoon.

I also think the shooting was accidental - I don`t think the criminals meant to kill. It seems pretty obvious that Anni was putting up a fight for her bag and the gun went off at an unintentional angle that went through her hand and neck.

I don`t think it`s at all strange for Shrien to be texting Zola from the back of the car - Anni could be well aware of what he was texting and thought nothing of it.

If Shrien was supposed to be paying Zola covertly in the hotel, why do it in front of witnesses.

If I was Shrien, and innocent, there`s no way I would go back to SA and have my fate sealed by a currupt justice system and who knows what sort of jurors without impartiality and maybe without the ability to make discerning judgements.

There are things I`m not sure about, e.g. why choose a moonlighting tour guide and why dump Shrien out of the car first (but this could be just to get the man out of the way first). I wouldn`t place too much credence on CTV as everyone knows the cameras are there.

Anni's engagement ring was worth £25,000. NO ROBBER IS GOING TO LEAVE WITHOUT A PRIZE LIKE THAT! Especially after they just murdered, or accidentally killed, somebody. They would make sure it was worth their while.

They 'chatted' with Zola during the route from airport to hotel.

They also 'chatted' with Zola when he took them sightseeing.

So why the need to 'text' him whilst he's sat in the same car as them, unless he had something to hide from Anni?

None of it makes sense.

Loopdaloop wrote:

kitti wrote:I believe he killed her before and I still do....he would rather have her killed than a live and have sex with his wife.


He is lying about NOT being gay as not one but TWO independent people...one being a civil servant and his long standing boyfriend and the other a gay prostitute, have stated he had sex with them...so if he is lying about that then he is lying about everything else....he would come out and hold his hands up and say....yes I'm gay but being gay doesn't make me a murderer but no, he won't do that as he wants it all and save face.


As for saying the bullet went through her hand first so it wasn't a 'hit'....that's rubbish as as she still went to defend herself ..is she just to sit there and get shot without any questions ......they took no watch, jewellery or phone....come on, there not exactly rich out the are they, why drop off the man and take the women, why if it was robbery, didnt they take the car, park up, rob the both off them and go..but they didn't, they took the car, dropped the man off....out the window off course ...then drove off with the women....being the man dewani is, he told them to drive off and do the deed.

What are the key points that leads you to suspect him? I really have reasonable doubt in this one. The stories of the ones in jail are inconsistent.

I don't think being gay, repressed or not is adequate explanation for motivation to kill....
Research doesn't point to people who lie about some things are entirely dishonest. There is selectivity, its not possible to be a perpetual lier as its a lot of balls to keep up in the air. It is plausible that he lied about the window thing to save face, as a man generally, not just a man within a very traditional family of course he would want to portray to all his friends and family that he did everything possible to save her. Its what happens in films isnt it?

I believed the independent witness in the township who worked for the council who thought that Shiren seemed sincere in his upset and panic.
As a bloke, I think its difficult for us to fake our emotion unlike women who can find it easier to pull the waterworks.
The images in the hotel of him crying afterwards also sealed it for me as it was a private moment. The Mccann's can't pull sincere tears.

The amount of money in rand I don't think is significant for someone wealthy who had a wedding that cost that much, nor who is staying at (according to panorama) the most expensive hotel there. I've seen countless people walk around with money like this
So the programme made him out to being a little cheap but the rich have to stay rich some how!
It is plausible that he could have cut a deal with the taxi driver to provide the chauffeur /tour service and he could have been texting him to either hide appearing cheap, or hide the fact that he made a deal which wasn't entirely above board! Lets face it, people that run care homes for the elderly are all about cutting corners to create more of an income.

The passage of the bullet is evidence of a struggle which is different than the clean shot/hit in the neck the police portrayed which is a major discrepancy. They said on the show that the courts may be just but the police are corrupt over there.. this is why I've done a 360 on this one.

Were discussing about what happened on Honeymoon what about what was happening befor the honeymoon......both Anne's Sister (in this programe) and her best friend (from the despatches programe last year) both said Anne had told them that she didn't want to marry Dewani she new something wasn't quite right and that she didn't love him anymore, also we have the telephone converstion Anne had with her Father while she was on honeymoon informing him that she had some very important to tell him, and she would be telling him everthitng on her return...she obviously didn't get back to tell him, had she told Dewani that she was telling her Father everything about her and her new husband....could Dewani have panicked and rushed off and planned it all with the taxi driver, who imo originally paid him to be his personal Taxi driver while on Honeymoon, I dont think Dewani planned all this befor the Marriage or honeymoon, but something terrible happened, like an argument and serious stuff been said or found out about...........and something had to be done quickly to shut poor annie up saddly.

Iris wrote:Anni's engagement ring was worth £25,000. NO ROBBER IS GOING TO LEAVE WITHOUT A PRIZE LIKE THAT! Especially after they just murdered, or accidentally killed, somebody. They would make sure it was worth their while.

Yes, I reckon that`s one of the main things they were after but, as was said in the programme, Anni hid it down between the seats - the police later found it. Obviously the robbers weren`t going to scrabble around lifting seats up once she`d been shot. Though its weird they apparently went back for a brown envelope. Not a clear cut case for sure.

She still had her watch on, she still had her phone.....and why drop off the man and not even rob him...and yes why text a man who is sitting right in front off you....he's guilty.

There was no struggle.....the hit men were just incompetent ......they pointed the gun and she put her hand up to protect herself like when you full over...you put your hands out first.

Whenever Dewani was in sight of the cctv camera positioned in the hotel corridor, he appeared to glance at it. I'm not saying this indicates guilt, but if he is guilty, then any behaviour in that corridor cannot be assumed to be authentic (the dabbing of the eyes with tissue, for example).

She recognizes that Dewani is currently seriously mentally ill, and that the courts have therefore delayed the agreed extradition. She hopes that he will get better soon so that he can go to South Africa, answer the charges against him, and then that, one way or another, the family will get to know what really happened to her sister.

I know what I think is most likely, from all that I have read, but it is what can be shown to be so in court that counts.

Wintabells wrote:Whenever Dewani was in sight of the cctv camera positioned in the hotel corridor, he appeared to glance at it. I'm not saying this indicates guilt, but if he is guilty, then any behaviour in that corridor cannot be assumed to be authentic (the dabbing of the eyes with tissue, for example).

agree totally. He had already sussed out where all the cctv cameras were in the hotel and did his act in front of them. He knew there wasn't one in the computer room and arranged for the money to be exchanged in there. Unfortunately Tonga wasn't as clever - after going to the gents loo he walked out of the hotel clutching the envelope!

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/243516/Sensational-claims-in-honeymoon-death-case-

This needs to be taken with lashings (no pun intended!) of salt in view of the source but it is certainly interesting to speculate whether Srien Dewani is another person who has friends in high places.

Dewani is from a very rich influential family who will surely do what they can do for him.

I think Dewani is really lucky to be allowed to stay in hospital for the moment. People who have access to money always play the system. Our judiciary process is becoming as unfair as America's, with money being the deciding factor . We used to have a judicial system that other countries copied, but we have nothing to boast about now. Whatever the ins or outs - the guilt or the innocence - why on earth are people involved in murder cases hiring PR agents?

IMO the last year of all the scandal of NI, Murdochs and Brooks of this world.....all wealth does is slow the process down.....if your guilty, your guilty, and you will be held to account, if the likes of the above are brought to account, then I'm sure with time the likes of Dewarni and McCanns will be..........AIMO

Lillyofthevalley wrote:IMO the last year of all the scandal of NI, Murdochs and Brooks of this world.....all wealth does is slow the process down.....if your guilty, your guilty, and you will be held to account, if the likes of the above are brought to account, then I'm sure with time the likes of Dewarni and McCanns will be..........AIMO

I really hope you're right .

2nd person comes forward to confirm Shrien is gay - a Politician

http://www.eyewitnessnews.co.za/Story.aspx?Id=85747