Re: BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT

**Claudia79** Fri 20 Apr - 23:06

If I saw someone I don't know specifically taking a picture of my child or any child closely related to me that person would be eating through a straw for a fortnight!

Fern Fri 20 Apr - 23:07

Panda wrote:
Why oh why does the British Press toady to the McCanns all the time????? do they really think it sells more papers to print this stuff? The Public is
more intelligent than they think. I have no respect at all for the Mccanns the way they have betrayed the memory of their Daughter for money, they have no conscience .

The press are a law unto themselves Panda and its not all been favourable for the McCanns hence why they made a donation to the fund for over stepping the mark.

They are greedy and ruthless with little thought of the hurt it may cause PROVIDED they sell more papers.

I gave up years ago on them.

matthew Fri 20 Apr - 23:09

HAS THERE BEEN ANY CASE WHERE A CADAVER DOG HAS ALERTED TO A MISSING PERSON & THEN AT A LATER DATE HAS THE MISSING PERSON TURNED UP?

cherry1 Fri 20 Apr - 23:12

BRIT LAD: MADELEINE MCCANN WALKED PAST ME IN COSTA RESORT - Page 4 36898

not to my knowledge

Guest Fri 20 Apr - 23:14

Has there ever been a case where someone has been convicted without a body being found and then at a later date the supposed victim turns up?

**Panda** Fri 20 Apr - 23:17

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Has there ever been a case where someone has been convicted without a body being found and then at a later date the supposed victim turns up?

Not to my knowledge NBY, but I do remember the couple who faked their own death and went to Panama , bought a Property and lived there for several
years , even their Sons thought they were dead.!!

ELI Fri 20 Apr - 23:18

Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:
Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

You must mean the interpretation of the evidentiary samples or should I say JL's ' opinion '. The Forensic report is very confusing as is the analysis in the GBFS report however it's clearer in that report to see how wording is used to manipulate results.

Regardless of any reports Eli, the evidence just isn't there to substantiate the dogs findings AT THE MOMENT however given how quickly developements are being made in the forensic field, its only a matter of time before a clearer picture emerges.

This of course depends entirely on what samples have remained intact.

Make no mistake, my ONLY concern is for Madeleine and my only hope is that someday the person/s involved in her fate are brought to justice whoever they may be.

Fern I've no intention of going into the in's and out's of the DNA analysis on here other than pointing out that in order to state that there were enough components for someone to identify an individual, those components had to match that particular individuals reference sample. As for the GBFS conclusions, they are based on comparing hair samples to the NDNAD, rather than known reference samples.

Thats fine Eli as its the wrong thread for starters plus its getting late for me.

Very briefly, where were these samples you mention collected from ?

I believe it was originally stated that there was a full match found in the apartment and that in the in a first scientific approach, the possibility of a compatibility between Madeleine's DNA profile and some of the residues that were collected (among which those that existed in the Renault Scenic vehicle that was rented by the McCanns, were in great quantity), was apparent - 15 -19 genetic markers.

“In the sample collected in the boot area of the vehicle, 15 of the identified
DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann, this of [having] 19 components.”

“With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed
DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann.”

Guest Fri 20 Apr - 23:20

Panda, that was John Darwin - only he faked his death, not his wife. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case as mentioned before in the U K but I can vaguely remember hearing of one somewhere else.

Fern Fri 20 Apr - 23:25

ELI wrote:

I believe it was originally stated that there was a full match found in the apartment and that in the in a first scientific approach, the possibility of a compatibility between Madeleine's DNA profile and some of the residues that were collected (among which those that existed in the Renault Scenic vehicle that was rented by the McCanns, were in great quantity), was apparent - 15 -19 genetic markers.

I don't think I can recall a full match being obtained from 5A Eli however had it been, then surely this would be 'normal' considering Madeleine had stayed there from Sat to Thurs ?

I've always thought it odd that there wasn't a conclusive match found in 5A.

Yes I can remember the initial claim of the 15 - 19 markers from the Scenic however I've not seen the actual report itself have you ?

I can though clearly recall Martin Brunt announcing on Sky News that a 100% DNA match had been found (before he retracted that statement).

Fern Fri 20 Apr - 23:26

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Panda, that was John Darwin - only he faked his death, not his wife. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case as mentioned before in the U K but I can vaguely remember hearing of one somewhere else.

It was 'canoe' related wasn't it.

**Panda** Fri 20 Apr - 23:26

Fern wrote:
Panda wrote:
Why oh why does the British Press toady to the McCanns all the time????? do they really think it sells more papers to print this stuff? The Public is
more intelligent than they think. I have no respect at all for the Mccanns the way they have betrayed the memory of their Daughter for money, they have no conscience .

The press are a law unto themselves Panda and its not all been favourable for the McCanns hence why they made a donation to the fund for over stepping the mark.

They are greedy and ruthless with little thought of the hurt it may cause PROVIDED they sell more papers.

I gave up years ago on them.

Hi Fern, I remember watching the PCC meeting with Mosely and Gerry McCann as Witnesses and it was quite noticeable that the Committee Members
had no idea of what goes on in the real world , they even had a Newspaper Editor on the Committee.!!!!

Fern Fri 20 Apr - 23:33

Panda wrote:

Hi Fern, I remember watching the PCC meeting with Mosely and Gerry McCann as Witnesses and it was quite noticeable that the Committee Members
had no idea of what goes on in the real world , they even had a Newspaper Editor on the Committee.!!!!

Pretty much like the majority of Politicians I guess.

Completely out of touch with reality.

**Panda** Fri 20 Apr - 23:34

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Panda, that was John Darwin - only he faked his death, not his wife. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case as mentioned before in the U K but I can vaguely remember hearing of one somewhere else.

That's right, but didn't his Wife live with him in Panama?

The Portugese Prosecutor asked a Judge whether there was enough evidence against the McCanns to go to Trial, he said "show me the Body".

I can't think of anyone being convicted without a body, but it was amazing about the remains of a body found in a lake which the Forensics identified
as those of a Woman missing for 16 years and her Husband was found guilty of Murder. I bet he thought he was well in the clear.

ELI Fri 20 Apr - 23:47

Fern wrote:
ELI wrote:

I believe it was originally stated that there was a full match found in the apartment and that in the in a first scientific approach, the possibility of a compatibility between Madeleine's DNA profile and some of the residues that were collected (among which those that existed in the Renault Scenic vehicle that was rented by the McCanns, were in great quantity), was apparent - 15 -19 genetic markers.

I don't think I can recall a full match being obtained from 5A Eli however had it been, then surely this would be 'normal' considering Madeleine had stayed there from Sat to Thurs ?

I've always thought it odd that there wasn't a conclusive match found in 5A.

Yes I can remember the initial claim of the 15 - 19 markers from the Scenic however I've not seen the actual report itself have you ?

I can though clearly recall Martin Brunt announcing on Sky News that a 100% DNA match had been found (before he retracted that statement).

“With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of
Madeleine McCann.”

Yes it would be normal for her DNA to be in that apartment but found in a location where both dogs alerted to a dead body or human remains, isn't normal imo.

Regarding the evidentiary sample found in the Scenic, I believe the report again confirms that the analysis identified her genetic profile or enough components matching the reference sample.

marxman Fri 20 Apr - 23:50

I think the wheels of justice have finally came.
or coming to the conclusion that a body is not
absolutely necessary to support a conviction.
It would be ideal, but without it, i believe that
'absence of existence' and good circumstancial
evidence, and a few well trained cadaver dogs
can carry the day.

cherry1 Fri 20 Apr - 23:52

I think so too, there have been a number of convictions without a body
ever having been found.

maive Fri 20 Apr - 23:56

Panda wrote:
Not Born Yesterday wrote:Panda, that was John Darwin - only he faked his death, not his wife. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case as mentioned before in the U K but I can vaguely remember hearing of one somewhere else.

That's right, but didn't his Wife live with him in Panama?

The Portugese Prosecutor asked a Judge whether there was enough evidence against the McCanns to go to Trial, he said "show me the Body".

I can't think of anyone being convicted without a body, but it was amazing about the remains of a body found in a lake which the Forensics identified
as those of a Woman missing for 16 years and her Husband was found guilty of Murder. I bet he thought he was well in the clear.

You have the murder of Suzanne Pilley, in Edinburgh, Anne-Marie Fahey Case (USA) and certainly many more.. It's rare but still, it's possible.. It depends on many factors..

I don't know about Portugal though. But I think it depends on the judge also.. Maybe another judge would say otherwise..

**Panda** Sat 21 Apr - 0:00

I think the phone calls made by the McCanns will be of the most interest to SY. Again the Portugese Prosecutor went to Court to ask permission to
use them but the Judge said it was too intrusive.....no wonder the Portugese Police were frustrated. It also beggars belief that when the PJ found their Statements did not tally a recon was mandatory and they would have to attend.

marxman Sat 21 Apr - 0:03

cherry1 wrote:I think so too, there have been a number of convictions without a body
ever having been found.

Hi Cherry1, yes indeed, and as criminals have evolved
into more inventive and cunning perps, and have utilised
the advances in science and technology in order to rid
themselves of incriminating evidence, likewise, the judicial
system has reacted accordingly and applied more weight
towards non-material evidence.
Circumstantial evidence, once frowned upon on its own in
the past, can now get you banged up.

Guest Sat 21 Apr - 0:03

Panda, I'm sure you will remember the case of Muriel McKay, the wife of a News of the World executive, who was kidnapped from her home in Wimbledon just after Christmas in 1969. Two men were subsequently convicted of her murder though her body was never found.

cherry1 Sat 21 Apr - 0:03

Very true Marxman, another example here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1236642/Father-guilty-murdering-daughter-15-honour-killing.html

tragic report of a father who murdered his young daughter in an honour killing, he was convicted
of murder and the body has never been found.

the father got life.

**Panda** Sat 21 Apr - 0:05

maive wrote:
Panda wrote:
Not Born Yesterday wrote:Panda, that was John Darwin - only he faked his death, not his wife. I'm pretty sure there's never been a case as mentioned before in the U K but I can vaguely remember hearing of one somewhere else.

That's right, but didn't his Wife live with him in Panama?

The Portugese Prosecutor asked a Judge whether there was enough evidence against the McCanns to go to Trial, he said "show me the Body".

I can't think of anyone being convicted without a body, but it was amazing about the remains of a body found in a lake which the Forensics identified
as those of a Woman missing for 16 years and her Husband was found guilty of Murder. I bet he thought he was well in the clear.

You have the murder of Suzanne Pilley, in Edinburgh, Scott Peterson Case (USA), Anne-Marie Fahey Case (USA) and certainly many more.. It's rare but still, it's possible.. It depends on many factors..

HI MAIVE , you all seem so clued up on Murder cases , forensics etc.....if you had been Portugese judges the Mccanns would be doing time now.
I think the Portugese were too much in awe of the McCanns and the support they had from people in high places.

I don't know about Portugal though. But I think it depends on the judge also.. Maybe another judge would say otherwise..

maive Sat 21 Apr - 0:07

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Apologies, this is a bit gruesome but parts of Laci Peterson's body were found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Peterson#Recovery_of_body

Panda, I'm sure you will remember the case of Muriel McKay, the wife of a News of the World executive, who was kidnapped from her home in Wimbledon just after Christmas in 1969. Two men were subsequently convicted of her murder though her body was never found.

Yes you're right, it was the manner of death that was missing.

But the other case that I have mentioned is in Delaware, a high-profile politicien/lawyer (Tom Capano) has been convicted of killing his mistress, the body was never found (ocean). Very interesting case.

**Panda** Sat 21 Apr - 0:21

No NBY I don't remember that case, but then I was more into reading Books than Newspapers when I was growing up . One case I read when I was
11 about a Girl called Amy, she was part of quite a large Family but for some reason her parents hated her and kept her locked up in an understairs
cupboard. When the Police found her, her Mother had sewn her dress to her skin, I cried for days over poor Amy.

**Badboy** Sat 21 Apr - 0:31

Not Born Yesterday wrote:Has there ever been a case where someone has been convicted without a body being found and then at a later date the supposed victim turns up?

THERE WAS A CASE IN CHARLES II TIME.
SOMEONE WAS HANGED,THE VICTIM TURNED UP LATER,SAID HE HAD BEEN SOLD INTO SLAVERY?

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