Robert Murat may SUE Mr Birch

marxman wrote:Could someone please answer a question?

How can Murat sue Birch based solely on
Birch's evidence/statement?
What if Birch retracts his statement and
says "I didn't invade your space, I was
jesting in order to get the case opened"

Then what?

I should imagine that the Murats have other evidence of their own.

Angelina wrote:

marxman wrote:Could someone please answer a question?

How can Murat sue Birch based solely on
Birch's evidence/statement?
What if Birch retracts his statement and
says "I didn't invade your space, I was
jesting in order to get the case opened"

Then what?

He's supposedly got photos and video hasn't he? Assuming they are genuine (have doubts about that) then wouldn't they be proof he'd been in the Murat garden?

Hi Angelina, I don't think the photos/video
proves it was Murat's garden, it may have
been another. I think we only have Birch's
word for it which I think he could retract
at anytime. I think, but i'm not sure, that
to prove trespass you need to show damage
or loss and have independent witness or
caught in the act. All these factors are
missing I believe.

Iris wrote:

marxman wrote:Could someone please answer a question?

How can Murat sue Birch based solely on
Birch's evidence/statement?
What if Birch retracts his statement and
says "I didn't invade your space, I was
jesting in order to get the case opened"

Then what?

I should imagine that the Murats have other evidence of their own.

Maybe so Iris but it would be Murat WILL
sue Birch not MAY sue.

marxman wrote:

Angelina wrote:

marxman wrote:Could someone please answer a question?

How can Murat sue Birch based solely on
Birch's evidence/statement?
What if Birch retracts his statement and
says "I didn't invade your space, I was
jesting in order to get the case opened"

Then what?

He's supposedly got photos and video hasn't he? Assuming they are genuine (have doubts about that) then wouldn't they be proof he'd been in the Murat garden?

Hi Angelina, I don't think the photos/video
proves it was Murat's garden, it may have
been another. I think we only have Birch's
word for it which I think he could retract
at anytime. I think, but i'm not sure, that
to prove trespass you need to show damage
or loss and have independent witness or
caught in the act. All these factors are
missing I believe.

Hi Marxman,

No, perhaps they don't prove it. He said he'd tried digging so that might show someone had been there but it wouldn't be anything like proof it was him. I have lots of doubts about it all anyway and don't think anything will happen in the end - no digging, no court case.

I think if it is the Murat's House Birch could be sued for trespass and if they let him dig and nothing is found, a more serious charge.

What's happened to Murat's charge against O'Brien, Payne and Mapilly he was supposed to be suing them for falsely saying they saw him outside 5a.
They are not short of money with all the libel suits they have brought.

Panda wrote:

I think if it is the Murat's House Birch could be sued for trespass and if they let him dig and nothing is found, a more serious charge.

What's happened to Murat's charge against O'Brien, Payne and Mapilly he was supposed to be suing them for falsely saying they saw him outside 5a.
They are not short of money with all the libel suits they have brought.

And suing lori campbell who totally slandered robert murat in public across the world based on just on a 'feeling'! And jane tanner who accused him off abducting Maddie with no evidence

Panda wrote:

I think if it is the Murat's House Birch could be sued for trespass and if they let him dig and nothing is found, a more serious charge.

What's happened to Murat's charge against O'Brien, Payne and Mapilly he was supposed to be suing them for falsely saying they saw him outside 5a.
They are not short of money with all the libel suits they have brought.

Not sure if the law's the same in Portugal as it is here but you can't prosecute trespassers here. Remember when my dad was plagued with them on some land he owned and the only legal notice which could apply was "armed trespassers will be prosecuted". Any old body can march across your land with no comebacks, unless they damage something, then they can be.

jd16 wrote:

Panda wrote:

I think if it is the Murat's House Birch could be sued for trespass and if they let him dig and nothing is found, a more serious charge.

What's happened to Murat's charge against O'Brien, Payne and Mapilly he was supposed to be suing them for falsely saying they saw him outside 5a.
They are not short of money with all the libel suits they have brought.

And suing lori campbell who totally slandered robert murat in public across the world based on just on a 'feeling'! And jane tanner who accused him off abducting Maddie with no evidence

Maybe when he received his £600,000 he decided to drop the charges or, since the Tapas group were flush with their award, they settled out of Court.

When you think of all the people who have made money from Madeleine's disappearance it really is disgusting.

Panda wrote:
Maybe when he received his £600,000 he decided to drop the charges or, since the Tapas group were flush with their award, they settled out of Court.

When you think of all the people who have made money from Madeleine's disappearance it really is disgusting.

Yes it is totally disgusting. Murat received the equivalent of £50,000 from each newspaper that made libellous stories about him to make the £600,000. But the most libellous of them all was lori campbell and jane tanner, he does nothing! Anyone would think he was on the 'inside'!

dazedandconfused wrote:

Panda wrote:

I think if it is the Murat's House Birch could be sued for trespass and if they let him dig and nothing is found, a more serious charge.

What's happened to Murat's charge against O'Brien, Payne and Mapilly he was supposed to be suing them for falsely saying they saw him outside 5a.
They are not short of money with all the libel suits they have brought.

Not sure if the law's the same in Portugal as it is here but you can't prosecute trespassers here. Remember when my dad was plagued with them on some land he owned and the only legal notice which could apply was "armed trespassers will be prosecuted". Any old body can march across your land with no comebacks, unless they damage something, then they can be.

I just don't know what to think any more dazed and confused, Duarte being Media Lawyer for Espresso, the first Paper to report this and Alves demanding the area be dug up is too conspiratorial , they would have contacted the McCanns as soon as this came to light. Murat obviously does not
want to take action so this will die a death very soon......I think if he was innocent he would gladly have let Birch dig and repair, but I can't see him as
being responsible for Madeleine's disappearance.

jd16 wrote:

Panda wrote:
Maybe when he received his £600,000 he decided to drop the charges or, since the Tapas group were flush with their award, they settled out of Court.

When you think of all the people who have made money from Madeleine's disappearance it really is disgusting.

Yes it is totally disgusting. Murat received the equivalent of £50,000 from each newspaper that made libellous stories about him to make the £600,000. But the most libellous of them all was lori campbell and jane tanner, he does nothing! Anyone would think he was on the 'inside'!

I can't remember what lori Campbell said but Jane Tanner fingered him when she was in the Police Car ... I suppose it could be argued it was a genuine mistake and the fact that Murat wasn't arrested proves she wasn't taken seriously. I remember Gerry being asked by a Reporter by the airport if he knew Murat and he said " no comment"a strange remark I thought. Is anything straightforward about this case.

http://www.algarveresident.com/46436-0/algarve/robert-murat-to-sue-south-african-man-for-trespassing

Robert Murat to sue South African man for trespassing
Updated: 12-Jul-2012

A Civil Protection vehicle exiting Murat’s property during police searches of the house in May 2007. Photo: MARK RAWCLIFFE -ALGARVE RESIDENT
A Civil Protection vehicle exiting Murat’s property during police searches of the house in May 2007. Photo: MARK RAWCLIFFE -ALGARVE RESIDENT

Robert Murat suing South African researcher, who claims Madeleine’s body is buried in his backyard, for trespassing

By INÊS LOPES ines.lopes@algarveresident.com

In an exclusive interview with the Algarve Resident on July 5, Robert Murat said he was “very angry” that news was circulating that a South-African researcher claims Madeleine McCann’s body is buried in the backyard of the house where his mother lives in Praia da Luz.

According to a report in Correio da Manhã (CM) daily newspaper on the same day of our interview, Stephen Birch, who says he is “passionate” about the mystery surrounding Madeleine’s disappearance, entered the property four times during the night, around three weeks ago, to search its backyard using georadar equipment.

The man claims the machine detected movement and alteration in the subsoil and collected images that he says he has passed on to the UK’s Scotland Yard and the Portuguese Polícia Judiciária. Birch told the CM that images collected detected that “an object” had been buried in the backyard “60 centimetres underground”. The data was allegedly analysed by a specialist who confirmed the probable presence of something buried in that location.

However, experts commenting on the report say it is impossible to know what it is.

The South-African researcher told the Portuguese press last week that he believed it was Madeleine that was buried there.

Robert Murat says his lawyer is dealing with the matter. Photo: MARK RAWCLIFFE -ALGARVE RESIDENT
Robert Murat says his lawyer is dealing with the matter. Photo: MARK RAWCLIFFE -ALGARVE RESIDENT

However, Robert Murat said: “Every single part of the house, inside and out, was checked in 2007 by more than 20 police officers, who found absolutely nothing. They used Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR) equipment, which was brought by a Civil Protection team, to search the grounds of the property and the area surrounding Casa Liliana.”

Former PJ inspector Gonçalo Amaral, who was involved in the Madeleine investigation in the beginning, told CM that the PJ’s searches of the house had been “thorough”.

Murat, who hasn’t lived at the house “for years”, said his mother Jenny, who is 76 years old, is feeling very uncomfortable in her own home. “Her privacy is being invaded again,” he said. “She is distraught and I am very angry. My lawyers are dealing with this.”

Referring to the photographs published by Correio da Manhã, which show Birch in Jenny Murat’s garden, Robert said he didn’t think there was any way the man could have entered the property as his mother has two large Serra da Estrela dogs that are kept outside as guard dogs.

Murat’s lawyer, Francisco Pagarete, told the Algarve Resident on Wednesday: “We are suing Mr Stephen Birch for the unlawful entry into private property.”

Robert Murat concluded: “I don’t expect anybody to be on my side, I just want the truth.”

Birch told CM that while in Praia da Luz, he monitored the property “24 hours a day”, with the help of two “collaborators”, and when the house was vacated he would enter and search the backyard with the georadar equipment.

The man says he does not want to “make accusations” as his sole objective is to find the location where the body was buried as it will be “easier to solve the case”.

Despite his alleged findings at the property, Birch is quoted in CM as saying that he doesn’t believe Murat or his relatives are involved in the disappearance of Madeleine. “Anyone could have had access to the property,” he told the newspaper.

A video showing Stephen Birch using a georadar machine, allegedly in the garden of Casa Liliana, is now circulating the web, including on YouTube.

In the CM report, Gerry and Kate McCann’s lawyer in Portugal, Rogério Alves, is said to be following the latest developments closely and admitted he may request the reopening of the case.

Madeleine’s parents, who claim never to have met Stephen Birch, said they would like to see the Portuguese authorities act on Birch’s findings.

The Portuguese and British authorities have allegedly received the data collected by Stephen Birch however, the former haven’t yet acted on the information.

The background

Madeleine McCann disappeared from her family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on May 3 2007, a few days before turning four.

Robert Murat became the first arguido, or official suspect, in the investigation of the Madeleine McCann case after a British journalist reported to the police that his behaviour during the initial stages of the search was suspicious. Murat, fluent in English and Portuguese, had offered his help as translator to the Portuguese authorities.

In 2008, Murat saw his status of arguido dropped by the Portuguese authorities (read Algarve Resident edition of November 14, 2008).

Murat has always claimed to have had no involvement whatsoever in the British toddler’s disappearance and that his life has been turned upside down by the case.

Once again, the Algarve resident sees his name splashed across the national and international press and all of his hopes of some form of normalcy in his life have now been dashed again.

Madeleine ‘is alive’

In the UK, the press has been reporting on the claims of a former Met detective who says there is a “good chance” that Madeleine McCann may be alive.

Ian Horrocks, who has visited Praia da Luz and the resort where Madeleine vanished, said he examined the police files on the case and believes it is “unlikely a paedophile ring murdered or kidnapped Madeleine” and rules out the involvement of Madeleine’s parents.

The former Scotland Yard detective told The Sun newspaper: “I do believe that when all the available information is examined logically and objectively, that Madeleine was taken by someone who wanted her as part of his or their family.”

Thanks annabel, they are all getting in on the act now, even the McCanns who disputed Birch's theory originally.


In the CM report, Gerry and Kate McCann’s lawyer in Portugal, Rogério Alves, is said to be following the latest developments closely and admitted he may request the reopening of the case."

I don't think the Portugese will re-open the case, but may interview Birch and dig up where he says the object is. I said at the time it would be better for Murat to agree , if only to prove his innocence and Birch proved an attention seeker.

Panda wrote:
Thanks annabel, they are all getting in on the act now, even the McCanns who disputed Birch's theory originally.


In the CM report, Gerry and Kate McCann’s lawyer in Portugal, Rogério Alves, is said to be following the latest developments closely and admitted he may request the reopening of the case."

I don't think the Portugese will re-open the case, but may interview Birch and dig up where he says the object is. I said at the time it would be better for Murat to agree , if only to prove his innocence and Birch proved an attention seeker.

AT the end of the day this could be delt with swiftly, I just can't get my head around anyone who says for definate that Maddy is buried there, and nobody does anything about it, as you say just to prove one way or another....I can't see how Murat can sue Birch for trespassing if the garden/driveway has never been checked out and Burch says she is def there!!

1. Where would Murat stand if the Driveway was dug up and Maddies body found....could Murat still sue Birch?????

2. How does Birch know this folded body is Maddy, someone MUST HAVE told him its her!!!! could'nt it be another child

Such alot of questions and doubts, and no authority is prepared to deal with it, to get it sorted one way or another.

Perhaps the Authorities are already totally and fully aware of the validity or otherwise of Birch's claims .........

I think that report where he was involved with another couple , brother and sister, says it all , they were after the reward.

TEiN I'm sure the authorities are sure of what they are doing, but how do they kno he is not a nutter without digging,imo the only way this can be resolved 100% is to get someone to dig up the D/Way, can't see how Murat can sue without solid proof that Birch is talking garbage.

There is more to this then meets the eye, Birch is quick to point out that Murat is NOT INVOLVED, but Murat does nothing, zilch about the McCanns and Friends pointing the finger of guilt at him in 2007.....but he quickly wants to sue someone, that same someone who says Murat ISN'T INVOLVED that person could possible take all the suspicion of Murat once and for all............

Some thing just isn't right here!!!

Panda wrote:

I think that report where he was involved with another couple , brother and sister, says it all , they were after the reward.

Is there still a reward Panda? Was it not for the return of a live Madeleine?

Lillyofthevalley wrote: TEiN I'm sure the authorities are sure of what they are doing, but how do they kno he is not a nutter without digging,imo the only way this can be resolved 100% is to get someone to dig up the D/Way, can't see how Murat can sue without solid proof that Birch is talking garbage.

There is more to this then meets the eye, Birch is quick to point out that Murat is NOT INVOLVED, but Murat does nothing, zilch about the McCanns and Friends pointing the finger of guilt at him in 2007.....but he quickly wants to sue someone, that same someone who says Murat ISN'T INVOLVED that person could possible take all the suspicion of Murat once and for all............

Some thing just isn't right here!!!

Murat doesn't have to prove that he doesn't have a body buried on his property. He can obviously sue because he was the victim of a crime. And even if he had a body buried on his property, he would still be able to sue.

In the CM report, Gerry and Kate McCann’s lawyer in Portugal, Rogério Alves, is said to be following the latest developments closely and admitted he may request the reopening of the case.

Why hasn't RA requested a re-opening before now? There have been many events/sightings in the past 4 years which could have prompted him to do so.

maebee wrote:

In the CM report, Gerry and Kate McCann’s lawyer in Portugal, Rogério Alves, is said to be following the latest developments closely and admitted he may request the reopening of the case.

Why hasn't RA requested a re-opening before now? There have been many events/sightings in the past 4 years which could have prompted him to do so.

Because they are not interested in one. They could have prevented the shelving of the case and refused.

snipped
Referring to the photographs published by Correio da Manhã, which show Birch in Jenny Murat’s garden, Robert said he didn’t think there was any way the man could have entered the property as his mother has two large Serra da Estrela dogs that are kept outside as guard dogs.

Murat’s lawyer, Francisco Pagarete, told the Algarve Resident on Wednesday: “We are suing Mr Stephen Birch for the unlawful entry into private property.”

So which is it? Did he not think the man could have entered the property, if not, how can they sue for unlawful entry? This was a stupid statement to make - I'm going to try and sue someone for something I myself don't think there was "any way" he could have done. Jesus.

The detective who thinks there is a good chance Maddie is alive is interesting. He doesn't think the parents were involved NOR that a ped RING took her. No one believes a pedo RING took her. But the more likely case if the parents weren't involved is that a pedo - a lone one - took her and if that were the case she'd have more than likely died very shortly and sadly afterwards. What this detective then finds most likely is that some couple who wanted a child stole her and is feeding her ice cream and treating her like a princess? He must be on crack.

Claudia79 wrote:

maebee wrote:

In the CM report, Gerry and Kate McCann’s lawyer in Portugal, Rogério Alves, is said to be following the latest developments closely and admitted he may request the reopening of the case.

Why hasn't RA requested a re-opening before now? There have been many events/sightings in the past 4 years which could have prompted him to do so.

Because they are not interested in one. They could have prevented the shelving of the case and refused.

You have to ask why? are they happy for Portuguese Police to be remembered for messing up this crime and to never stand up to Team McCann including Ms Duarte for leaving Portugual with this hanging over their heads for ever more.....

Claudia79 wrote:

maebee wrote:

In the CM report, Gerry and Kate McCann’s lawyer in Portugal, Rogério Alves, is said to be following the latest developments closely and admitted he may request the reopening of the case.

Why hasn't RA requested a re-opening before now? There have been many events/sightings in the past 4 years which could have prompted him to do so.

Because they are not interested in one. They could have prevented the shelving of the case and refused.

My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I asked that question :)

maebee wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

maebee wrote:

In the CM report, Gerry and Kate McCann’s lawyer in Portugal, Rogério Alves, is said to be following the latest developments closely and admitted he may request the reopening of the case.

Why hasn't RA requested a re-opening before now? There have been many events/sightings in the past 4 years which could have prompted him to do so.

Because they are not interested in one. They could have prevented the shelving of the case and refused.

My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I asked that question :)

I know!