McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

Angelina wrote:

"Why would they need a substitute because Madeleine was very ill. Why all the theatre. Unfortunately, children die from horrible illnesses all the time."

Maybe because there would have been a post mortem?

Angelique wrote:Angelina wrote:

"Why would they need a substitute because Madeleine was very ill. Why all the theatre. Unfortunately, children die from horrible illnesses all the time."

Maybe because there would have been a post mortem?

So that means she didn't actually die from the illness?

kitti wrote:The person that is substituted doesn't have to actually be there, do they.

Write the name on the creche record and walk away, that's it.


The nannies weren't too bright were they.

Did the nannies check the signing in pad?


Did they check to see if each name coincided with the children that were there?


Did they do a 'head check' every time the children were signed in and signed out?


Why were the children allowed to be taken out off the creche by NON parents ?


It would never be allowed in the UK for non custodial parents to pick up children unless it is put in writing, not even a grandparent is allowed to take a child off school premises if they 'just turn up'.


Slack ...very slack child care in my opinion.


Kate McCann said she was never known as McCann before she went missing yet her name was used to sign Madeleine out...

Yes, and another a reason for 'someone' to try and amend the creche records retrospectively to protect the holiday company's reputation, thus adding to the confusion. It's what the police come up against a lot - people lying, not because they are involved in what is being investigated, but involved in something else and trying to cover that up. Certainly a factor which should be taken into account as far as the creche records and MW are concerned.

There was no subsistitue, just a signature....the nannies were slack , very slack.


You need a 'substitute' to convince someone was where they weren't and you ask WHY would they need a 'substitute'....why did they only conveniently have the pool picture three weeks after she went missing which coincided with GM going back to UK

T4Two...your right there but they didn't even do that right, did they.


They still left children not signed out so they couldn't even do a good 'clean up'...


Asking nannies to Correct their stupidity was ridiculous, I don't think they could make up their mind who was on what boat , could you Imagine you child being looked after by them and going missing and not even noticing until the parent turned up to pick it up....no wonder they were all dismissed when the holiday season ended...if they had had people to cover them they probably would off gone before that.

whatsupdoc wrote:

Panda wrote:

I just can't understand the reasoning for a substitute Madeleine......would someone please give me a reason for such a substitution. The creche staff
were with Madeleine every day from 9am til 12.30pm then 2 til 5.30 pm for 5 days so certainly would have noted a substitute.

Not if they never saw the real Madeleine , Panda. Hope u enjoyed your hol...was it nice and warm? It's been welly weather here...all this rain and the grass shoots up...might get it cut today. The excitement of it all...lol.

Morning whatsupdoc, yes the weather was great , as high as 35% for a couple of days!!! The Hotel and Food was good but apparently the Hotel was
known as the 18 to 30's Club, the lads and lasses were very friendly but at night the noise was dreadful , no chance of sleeping from 2.30am til 6 am
because of banging doors, arguments and running around. Iv'e suffered from a bad cough since Iv'e been home because of the cold weather. !!

Now don't get carried away being able to cut the grass, the clouds are darkening as I write so either make a dash for it now and depending on the size of your Lawn , you might be lucky and finish before it rains,...good luck

Angelina wrote:

whatsupdoc wrote:

Angelina wrote:

Panda wrote:

I just can't understand the reasoning for a substitute Madeleine......would someone please give me a reason for such a substitution. The creche staff
were with Madeleine every day from 9am til 12.30pm then 2 til 5.30 pm for 5 days so certainly would have noted a substitute.

Can't think of one!

I can't either...lots of pieces missing...but I think there was a substitution. Just look at the pathetic attempt at forging entries in the creche register.

It's all a HUGE mystery.

Problems I have with substitution:

Who did they substitute.

Where did she come from.

How did they manage to get a 3 year old to accept she had to use another name and, more difficult still, how did a 3 year old remember she had to use that name at all times. In the excitement and general play she would undoubtedly have forgotten.

It seems to me substitution would mean pre-planning which I find difficult to believe. There must be easier ways of committing such a crime than doing it in a foreign country and phoning the press about it.

The substitute girl is called Madelene, just spelt differently.

The substitute always reminds me of Bridget O'Donnells comment "Our children made friends in the kiddie club and at the drop-off, we would joke about the fact that there were 10 blonde three-year-old girls in the group. They were bound to boss around the two boys."

Just a thought....Madeleine had her own Passport so would have been checked at the Airport, also what about Mrs Fenn hearing her crying on 1st May.

The photo of her climbing the stairs of the Plane would be sufficient to identify her as Madeleine and the "last" photo taken at the poolside.

The passport photo showed Madeleine when she was about six months old!

Perhaps some nice kind person (grovel grovel) could put the "last" photo and the phone footage (on the bus where you can see her face) together for comparison.

P.S. Link to passport photo added.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/PASSPORT_ID_PHOTOS.htm

Kate was heard to say - they've taken her - this in my view gives weight to the possibility that Madeleine was not alone and that the parents would have known who was with Madeleine and for what purpose.

The reason for this whole farce lies in who else was in PDL, others are being protected. Hence the Masons involvement in the coverup, government interfering, withholding information, their part in getting amaral out the way, nobbling of the Press etc. Right from the beginning the message has been out there these people must be protected, the Mccanns doing the Masonic distress cry for help when the police first saw them, Kate photographed on the front page of newspapers doing another masonic sign (hand to neck), Bransom being interviewed with Masonic symbols in background, the Priory Knights flowers photographed, who else would be able to pull so much weight in getting British staff who suspected the Mccanns replaced, withholding medical and financial records from Police, spokesman CM being allocated to them.

This has never happened in other cases of missing people, so ask yourselves why in this case. For the government to involve themselves in this farce as has already been said it has to involve those higher than government. A pity the old 3as is not available, there was I believe on that forum a thread which said it all, some posters already researched all this who was out there, who left quickly, what left quickly, etc. etc., Im sure it was all on an old 3aS thread, someone researched all this and found the answers, they were quickly shot down by some I seem to recall.

The "replacement Maddie" is all a bit too twilight zone for my likeing. How could they possibly have a conveniently named Madelene to stand in for her, why, was she the one falling up the aeroplane steps, was this other Maddie the one who was at the creche every day, how did the other Maddie's parents explain their child being missing, or were both sets turning up to pick up a single child? Questions too numerous to answer

I seem to recall that a couple of the nannies descriptions varied, one Maddie outgoing etc., one shy and reserved, maybe wrong but if this was true then that may account for the fact that there could have been a substitute.

dazedandconfused wrote:The "replacement Maddie" is all a bit too twilight zone for my likeing. How could they possibly have a conveniently named Madelene to stand in for her, why, was she the one falling up the aeroplane steps, was this other Maddie the one who was at the creche every day, how did the other Maddie's parents explain their child being missing, or were both sets turning up to pick up a single child? Questions too numerous to answer

I don't accept the stand-in theory either. Surely the staff at MW creche would realise as soon as they saw the photo of the missing Madeleine if she hadn't been in the creche. A stand-in would have involved not only Kate and Gerry, but at least several members of MW staff. You'd think that at least one member of MW's staff would have come forward and said, "That's not the child we called Madeleine."

I think the Ocean staff were cleared out fairly swiftly.

I believe that Gerry knew Robert Murat and met him at least in Exeter. I think he also knew Robert Naylor who was Madelene's father here in England. There were connections.

I don't think we can dismiss anything so the jigsaw is pretty big. The dogs certainly made a big statement. I trust dogs 100%.

Gerry & Kate could be King & Queen of the Universe but the smell would be unbearable ....

would shout her head off if being 'abducted' by a stranger (unless sedated). I don't buy the deeply sleeping bundle seen being carried off bit. Moreover, a four year old is a complete person with her own wishes, ideas, memories, knowledge etc. and usually very articulate too. Unless locked in a cellar she would for ever be yelling at the top of her voice: 'My name is Madeleine McCann, I live in Rothley. Take me back to my Mummy and Daddy etc...

i have always thought something happened after mrs fenn heard madeline crying -read so much my mind goes blank sometimes --- wasnt it on the 3rd that they all went off to do their own thing and madeline wasnt invited --- why do they need to get this information accross --- the same reason why didnt you come when sean and i was crying --- ?

Angelina wrote:

Angelique wrote:Angelina wrote:

"Why would they need a substitute because Madeleine was very ill. Why all the theatre. Unfortunately, children die from horrible illnesses all the time."

Maybe because there would have been a post mortem?

So that means she didn't actually die from the illness?

GA has said that Madeleine had died in the apartment due to an accident. The abduction was staged.
If she died from the "supposed illness" there would be no reason for a "supposed abduction".

I think the McCanns didn't want a post mortem. Maybe something to hide so she had to be abducted. You notice medical records were not provided from the UK.

Could be different reasons why they didn't want to give up the cadaver ...


Sedation could off been one but what could be worse than that....'p'...could off been that too....but what off the medical records not allowed to be given to the PJ, why, what is it that they didn't want us to know about Madeleine ...was there something in there that would revile people so much into thinking that leaving a child that had a medical condition, alone, sedation is bad enough but leaving a child alone who may off had some sort off condition and she died ....that would make people sit up and think about what sort off parents would do that knowing she had this.

Just a thought.....what if Madeleine died of an accident in 5A as Amaral says and Gerry found her behind the settee on his 9pm visit . He quickly put her
in the Tennis bag and hid it in the Garden for a while "going to the toilet" being his excuse for staying a bit longer. There was a rumour of a tenth Tapas
who disappeared very quickly in his Plane. What if he took Madeleine's body? With a private Plane at that time of night his luggage would not be checked. The PJ arrived at way past 11pm as did Silvia Batista so there was roughly 2 hours to hatch a plan.

struck me as a possibility too...

comperedna wrote:struck me as a possibility too...

Great minds think alike comperedna

This would also account for Kate saying theyv'e taken her or someone's taken her because Gerry didn't tell her . I remember Payne and Oldfield Searched together ,O"Brien was with Rachel and Fiona where they fingered Murat being there so Gerry could easily have spoken to the VIP who agreed, collected the bag and was on his way with no-one noticing because they were too busy searching for Madeleine. Gerry would still have time to meet the Police when they arrived at 11.15 or thereabouts.

Hi Panda

Good theory - but how did the cadaver scent get on Kates clothes and in the hire car?

Angelique wrote:Hi Panda

Good theory - but how did the cadaver scent get on Kates clothes and in the hire car?

Hi Angelique, havn't seen you for a while. WELL......if that had been an exact finding, the McCanns would have been charged there and then. However
the FSS could find no evidence of Madeleine's DNA in the Car and didn't Kate say she had been in contact with 6 dead bodies in the course of her job.?
Hard to believe I know but if true, would cadaver odour last that long after a few showers?