McCanns Lawyer says police must take position on the lead provided by S.A Businessman

For crying out loud, there was nothing premeditated or well thought out in whatever happened. You just have to look at the timelines they hurriedly wrote and the idiotic statements they gave to see that whatever happened didn't give them time to rehearse their stories. That's why they messed up big time and that's why even a child can detect all their inconsistencies. The PJ investigation team has a fairly good idea about what happened that night. They just can't prove it. Hadn't they benefited from their contacts and friends in high places and this would have been solved years ago.

Panda wrote:

Angelique wrote:Hi Panda

Good theory - but how did the cadaver scent get on Kates clothes and in the hire car?

Hi Angelique, havn't seen you for a while. WELL......if that had been an exact finding, the McCanns would have been charged there and then. However
the FSS could find no evidence of Madeleine's DNA in the Car and didn't Kate say she had been in contact with 6 dead bodies in the course of her job.?
Hard to believe I know but if true, would cadaver odour last that long after a few showers?

Hi Panda

Have not been away just reading and wondering how this whole maelstrom will ever get sorted out - truth from fiction.

Yes, agree that FSS results too ambiguous and transfer is possible - in which case your theory is a possibility.

Claudia79 wrote:For crying out loud, there was nothing premeditated or well thought out in whatever happened. You just have to look at the timelines they hurriedly wrote and the idiotic statements they gave to see that whatever happened didn't give them time to rehearse their stories. That's why they messed up big time and that's why even a child can detect all their inconsistencies. The PJ investigation team has a fairly good idea about what happened that night. They just can't prove it. Hadn't they benefited from their contacts and friends in high places and this would have been solved years ago.

Absolutely Claudia. A very big Amen!

Angelique wrote:

Panda wrote:

Angelique wrote:Hi Panda

Good theory - but how did the cadaver scent get on Kates clothes and in the hire car?

Hi Angelique, havn't seen you for a while. WELL......if that had been an exact finding, the McCanns would have been charged there and then. However
the FSS could find no evidence of Madeleine's DNA in the Car and didn't Kate say she had been in contact with 6 dead bodies in the course of her job.?
Hard to believe I know but if true, would cadaver odour last that long after a few showers?

Hi Panda

Have not been away just reading and wondering how this whole maelstrom will ever get sorted out - truth from fiction.

Yes, agree that FSS results too ambiguous and transfer is possible - in which case your theory is a possibility.

Angelique , I was on holiday and never thought of the McCanns once. However, we all react with the slightest bit of News and chew the cud for days on it, putting forward theories like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole when really we know naathing like Manuel from Fawlty Towers would say.

Angelique wrote:Hi Panda

Good theory - but how did the cadaver scent get on Kates clothes and in the hire car?

Good morning all.

None of Gerry's clothes were picked out by the cadaver dog. Maybe they were disposed of but I think it was Madelene he was carrying on the 3rd.

How about if the (n+1) tapas member , who might have been Gerry's brother, I'm not sure, was hiring the same car that the McCanns later hired and this car had the body placed in it by Kate ? She could have placed Madeleine in the boot. This car could have been parked at an airport for over three weeks whilst the person flew off. The car was then brought back to PdL where it was smelling pretty high.
The keys could have been left in a safety deposit box and then Gerry picked the car up and phoned the hire company to say he wanted to take over the hiring of the car.
The body could even have been removed from the car parked at the airtport.

I think the strong smell of the hire car needs to be explained one way or the other.

[quote="whatsupdoc"]

Angelique wrote:Hi Panda

Good theory - but how did the cadaver scent get on Kates clothes and in the hire car?

Good morning all.

None of Gerry's clothes were picked out by the cadaver dog. Maybe they were disposed of but I think it was Madelene he was carrying on the 3rd.

How about if the (n+1) tapas member , who might have been Gerry's brother, I'm not sure, was hiring the same car that the McCanns later hired and this car had the body placed in it by Kate ? She could have placed Madeleine in the boot. This car could have been parked at an airport for over three weeks whilst the person flew off. The car was then brought back to PdL where it was smelling pretty high.
The keys could have been left in a safety deposit box and then Gerry picked the car up and phoned the hire company to say he wanted to take over the hiring of the car.
The body could even have been removed from the car parked at the airtport.

I think the strong smell of the hire car needs to be explained one way or the other. .





Morning whatsupdoc,

Did you manage to mow your Lawn? It rained here for most of the day.

I think John McCann can be ruled out as the 10th person at dinner, this guy was supposed to be a VIP who obviously did not want to be seen or involved (if the story is true of course. ) Budget Airlines who leased the Car would start a search for it if the keys were not handed in on the due date and are valeted before the next Hire.

Yes, the neightbour saying the Car Boot was left open all night outside the villa rented by the McCanns who said it was rotting meat needs closer
investigation and if you remember Gerry left the Car in the Garage of Geraghty because he wanted an inspection to prove there was no cadaver odour
or stains.

Claudia79 wrote:For crying out loud, there was nothing premeditated or well thought out in whatever happened. You just have to look at the timelines they hurriedly wrote and the idiotic statements they gave to see that whatever happened didn't give them time to rehearse their stories. That's why they messed up big time and that's why even a child can detect all their inconsistencies. The PJ investigation team has a fairly good idea about what happened that night. They just can't prove it. Hadn't they benefited from their contacts and friends in high places and this would have been solved years ago.

Totally agree Claudia, I've always felt that the case is actually all very simple and agree that the PJ just can't prove what they believe to be the truth, and with the huge media circus surrounding the case and distorting the facts, the Mc's were able to use this to their advantage...Gerry even said he was pleased that there was so much information out there so nobody knew what was true (or words to that effect) and I think the phrase that a lie can get halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to put it's pants on is so very true here.

And I also believe that if it was truly a coverup, then we would never have heard anything about it, or else it's the worst coverup in history.

@susible: I concur wholeheartedly.

Conspiracy is often merely the product of the over-active imaginations of sincerely concerned people trying to fill in the blanks.

Far more often than not, the real truth (If and when discovered) is mundane.

Yes TEIN, but it's our imagination that keeps the interest in this case going. I don't really think we take ourselves seriously .

As opposed to the flip-side who appear most earnest in their support for self-confessed child-neglectors and their unwillingness to cooperate with the PJ

The End Is Nigh wrote:@susible: I concur wholeheartedly.

Conspiracy is often merely the product of the over-active imaginations of sincerely concerned people trying to fill in the blanks.

Far more often than not, the real truth (If and when discovered) is mundane.

So mundane that the Portuguese police together with their British colleagues were unable to solve it? So mundane that the prime ministers of both countries discussed it in private? So mundane that the British Prime Minister of the day held secret telephone calls with the parents as did the Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary? So mundane that the British Prime Minister of the day seconded one of his top spin merchants to front for the parents with the media? So mundane that the government of the day instructed their diplomats in Portugal to give the parents their full support in spite of warnings by said diplomats that the parents were not eliminated from suspicion? So mundane that the supposedly top forensic lab in the world messed up on analysis of the samples obtained and then threw them away? One could go on and on citing the anomalies - that is why most of us are here - because we do not accept the 'official version' of events - the 'official version' as accepted by the media, the judiciary and a lot of very powerful people in British society and 'enforced' by the leading legal teams available in Britain today?

Panda wrote:

Yes TEIN, but it's our imagination that keeps the interest in this case going. I don't really think we take ourselves seriously .

Never a truer word said, Panda
My mind works overtime sometimes but in reality I think its as Claudia said above ^^^^

Claudia79 wrote:For crying out loud, there was nothing premeditated or well thought out in whatever happened. You just have to look at the timelines they hurriedly wrote and the idiotic statements they gave to see that whatever happened didn't give them time to rehearse their stories. That's why they messed up big time and that's why even a child can detect all their inconsistencies. The PJ investigation team has a fairly good idea about what happened that night. They just can't prove it. Hadn't they benefited from their contacts and friends in high places and this would have been solved years ago.

So, are you dismissing out of hand all the work done by Hideho who believes strongly, following hours of studying this case and meticulously going through every scrap of information to hand, that Madeleine's fate was sealed before the 3rd? I am inclined to agree that something very suddenly and unexpected happened, but it is when it happened that is the question. If indeed she died before the 3rd, it does make the coverup even more elaborate. On the other hand, if it was a sudden discovery on the night of the 3rd it makes the coverup more transparent I think. Some think the timelines were deviously clever, only appearing to look on the face of it as if they were drawn up in a hurry, but whatever one thinks, they have so far evaded further scrutiny over this disappearance. I for one do not go with the protection aspect either from powers up on high because that is another conspiracy as far as I can see. It is the lack of proof, as you say, I think. Whenever it happened, whatever happened, it needs more than circumstancial evidence for this to stand any chance in court, but that is all the police appear to have, circumstancial evidence. Yes, it is compelling and it has convinced all of us, but there is nothing I'm afraid that would be enough to satisfy a court of law and this is what the PJ realised quite some time ago.

Yes Panda I mowed the front & back as it was fine...good job as it's back to rain today.

I'm not convinced one way or the other whether it was all preplanned or not. It could have been badly coordinated and panic on the Thursday with a change of plans.

I do favour the subst plan but whether Naylor was asked on the Sunday to borrow his daughter all week, I don't know.

whatsupdoc wrote:I do favour the subst plan but whether Naylor was asked on the Sunday to borrow his daughter all week, I don't know.

Never heard of Naylor...who is he?

T4two wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:@susible: I concur wholeheartedly.

Conspiracy is often merely the product of the over-active imaginations of sincerely concerned people trying to fill in the blanks.

Far more often than not, the real truth (If and when discovered) is mundane.

So mundane that the Portuguese police together with their British colleagues were unable to solve it? So mundane that the prime ministers of both countries discussed it in private? So mundane that the British Prime Minister of the day held secret telephone calls with the parents as did the Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary? So mundane that the British Prime Minister of the day seconded one of his top spin merchants to front for the parents with the media? So mundane that the government of the day instructed their diplomats in Portugal to give the parents their full support in spite of warnings by said diplomats that the parents were not eliminated from suspicion? So mundane that the supposedly top forensic lab in the world messed up on analysis of the samples obtained and then threw them away? One could go on and on citing the anomalies - that is why most of us are here - because we do not accept the 'official version' of events - the 'official version' as accepted by the media, the judiciary and a lot of very powerful people in British society and 'enforced' by the leading legal teams available in Britain today?

Good post

Indeed it is

Angelina wrote:

whatsupdoc wrote:I do favour the subst plan but whether Naylor was asked on the Sunday to borrow his daughter all week, I don't know.

Never heard of Naylor...who is he?

Father of substitute Madelene. He was staying at the complex at the same time and I think there are connections to the #mccanns.

Kikoratton has quite a bit of info on him. He is ex GCHQ , kiko that is.

T4two wrote:

The End Is Nigh wrote:@susible: I concur wholeheartedly.

Conspiracy is often merely the product of the over-active imaginations of sincerely concerned people trying to fill in the blanks.

Far more often than not, the real truth (If and when discovered) is mundane.

So mundane that the Portuguese police together with their British colleagues were unable to solve it? So mundane that the prime ministers of both countries discussed it in private? So mundane that the British Prime Minister of the day held secret telephone calls with the parents as did the Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary? So mundane that the British Prime Minister of the day seconded one of his top spin merchants to front for the parents with the media? So mundane that the government of the day instructed their diplomats in Portugal to give the parents their full support in spite of warnings by said diplomats that the parents were not eliminated from suspicion? So mundane that the supposedly top forensic lab in the world messed up on analysis of the samples obtained and then threw them away? One could go on and on citing the anomalies - that is why most of us are here - because we do not accept the 'official version' of events - the 'official version' as accepted by the media, the judiciary and a lot of very powerful people in British society and 'enforced' by the leading legal teams available in Britain today?

Have you gone a 180 degree turn in your views on this case T4two?

I'm sure in discussions before, you have said time and time again.that it was simply lack of solid evidence along with the formidable collection of libel lawyers/pr reps that had kept the McCanns afloat so far. I'm genuinely surprised.

T4two - So mundane that the Portuguese police together with their British colleagues were unable to solve it? So mundane that the prime ministers of both countries discussed it in private? So mundane that the British Prime Minister of the day held secret telephone calls with the parents as did the Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary? So mundane that the British Prime Minister of the day seconded one of his top spin merchants to front for the parents with the media? So mundane that the government of the day instructed their diplomats in Portugal to give the parents their full support in spite of warnings by said diplomats that the parents were not eliminated from suspicion? So mundane that the supposedly top forensic lab in the world messed up on analysis of the samples obtained and then threw them away? One could go on and on citing the anomalies - that is why most of us are here - because we do not accept the 'official version' of events - the 'official version' as accepted by the media, the judiciary and a lot of very powerful people in British society and 'enforced' by the leading legal teams available in Britain today?



plus Prince Charles and Prince Andrew coming out making comments on the case, escort for the Mccanns from the airport, nobbling of the Press, people who speak out being threatened, their own government provided spokesman, withholding of medical and financial records, withholding of Gaspar statements etc. etc.,

LJC wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:For crying out loud, there was nothing premeditated or well thought out in whatever happened. You just have to look at the timelines they hurriedly wrote and the idiotic statements they gave to see that whatever happened didn't give them time to rehearse their stories. That's why they messed up big time and that's why even a child can detect all their inconsistencies. The PJ investigation team has a fairly good idea about what happened that night. They just can't prove it. Hadn't they benefited from their contacts and friends in high places and this would have been solved years ago.

So, are you dismissing out of hand all the work done by Hideho who believes strongly, following hours of studying this case and meticulously going through every scrap of information to hand, that Madeleine's fate was sealed before the 3rd? I am inclined to agree that something very suddenly and unexpected happened, but it is when it happened that is the question. If indeed she died before the 3rd, it does make the coverup even more elaborate. On the other hand, if it was a sudden discovery on the night of the 3rd it makes the coverup more transparent I think. Some think the timelines were deviously clever, only appearing to look on the face of it as if they were drawn up in a hurry, but whatever one thinks, they have so far evaded further scrutiny over this disappearance. I for one do not go with the protection aspect either from powers up on high because that is another conspiracy as far as I can see. It is the lack of proof, as you say, I think. Whenever it happened, whatever happened, it needs more than circumstancial evidence for this to stand any chance in court, but that is all the police appear to have, circumstancial evidence. Yes, it is compelling and it has convinced all of us, but there is nothing I'm afraid that would be enough to satisfy a court of law and this is what the PJ realised quite some time ago.

Yes, I dismiss the possibility of anything happening before the 3rd. In fact, it's not me that dismisses it. It's a whole investigation team (now 2, if what I've been told is right). I just happen to agree. I don't believe in any big conspiracy theory but it is a fact that they were protected and benefited from their connections. And the diplomatic pressures confirm it. The PJ was told to investigate an abduction, not a missing child case. Yes, the evidence is circumstantial. I'm just not sure that if there weren't interferences the evidence might not be so circumstantial.

Claudia79 wrote:

LJC wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:For crying out loud, there was nothing premeditated or well thought out in whatever happened. You just have to look at the timelines they hurriedly wrote and the idiotic statements they gave to see that whatever happened didn't give them time to rehearse their stories. That's why they messed up big time and that's why even a child can detect all their inconsistencies. The PJ investigation team has a fairly good idea about what happened that night. They just can't prove it. Hadn't they benefited from their contacts and friends in high places and this would have been solved years ago.

So, are you dismissing out of hand all the work done by Hideho who believes strongly, following hours of studying this case and meticulously going through every scrap of information to hand, that Madeleine's fate was sealed before the 3rd? I am inclined to agree that something very suddenly and unexpected happened, but it is when it happened that is the question. If indeed she died before the 3rd, it does make the coverup even more elaborate. On the other hand, if it was a sudden discovery on the night of the 3rd it makes the coverup more transparent I think. Some think the timelines were deviously clever, only appearing to look on the face of it as if they were drawn up in a hurry, but whatever one thinks, they have so far evaded further scrutiny over this disappearance. I for one do not go with the protection aspect either from powers up on high because that is another conspiracy as far as I can see. It is the lack of proof, as you say, I think. Whenever it happened, whatever happened, it needs more than circumstancial evidence for this to stand any chance in court, but that is all the police appear to have, circumstancial evidence. Yes, it is compelling and it has convinced all of us, but there is nothing I'm afraid that would be enough to satisfy a court of law and this is what the PJ realised quite some time ago.

Yes, I dismiss the possibility of anything happening before the 3rd. In fact, it's not me that dismisses it. It's a whole investigation team (now 2, if what I've been told is right). I just happen to agree. I don't believe in any big conspiracy theory but it is a fact that they were protected and benefited from their connections. And the diplomatic pressures confirm it. The PJ was told to investigate an abduction, not a missing child case. Yes, the evidence is circumstantial. I'm just not sure that if there weren't interferences the evidence might not be so circumstantial.

Great post Claudia, and I agree with your views entirely.... and especially the last sentence.

It was a last minute crappy plan that fell apart from the get go.... and every time they tried to rewrite history, they made another blunder on top of the other, and exposed another error. The more mistakes the McCanns made, the more money and favours they needed to generate to distract from them. This is why they never shut up....

Angelina wrote:

whatsupdoc wrote:I do favour the subst plan but whether Naylor was asked on the Sunday to borrow his daughter all week, I don't know.

Never heard of Naylor...who is he?

Apologies guys , I got confused and have been corrected by a tweeter called uppatoffee to whom I am very grateful.

Madelene the substitute is not Naylor's daughter. It's his friend's, J Rider. Elizabeth is Naylor's daughter who was in crèche with her.

pennylane wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

LJC wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:For crying out loud, there was nothing premeditated or well thought out in whatever happened. You just have to look at the timelines they hurriedly wrote and the idiotic statements they gave to see that whatever happened didn't give them time to rehearse their stories. That's why they messed up big time and that's why even a child can detect all their inconsistencies. The PJ investigation team has a fairly good idea about what happened that night. They just can't prove it. Hadn't they benefited from their contacts and friends in high places and this would have been solved years ago.

So, are you dismissing out of hand all the work done by Hideho who believes strongly, following hours of studying this case and meticulously going through every scrap of information to hand, that Madeleine's fate was sealed before the 3rd? I am inclined to agree that something very suddenly and unexpected happened, but it is when it happened that is the question. If indeed she died before the 3rd, it does make the coverup even more elaborate. On the other hand, if it was a sudden discovery on the night of the 3rd it makes the coverup more transparent I think. Some think the timelines were deviously clever, only appearing to look on the face of it as if they were drawn up in a hurry, but whatever one thinks, they have so far evaded further scrutiny over this disappearance. I for one do not go with the protection aspect either from powers up on high because that is another conspiracy as far as I can see. It is the lack of proof, as you say, I think. Whenever it happened, whatever happened, it needs more than circumstancial evidence for this to stand any chance in court, but that is all the police appear to have, circumstancial evidence. Yes, it is compelling and it has convinced all of us, but there is nothing I'm afraid that would be enough to satisfy a court of law and this is what the PJ realised quite some time ago.

Yes, I dismiss the possibility of anything happening before the 3rd. In fact, it's not me that dismisses it. It's a whole investigation team (now 2, if what I've been told is right). I just happen to agree. I don't believe in any big conspiracy theory but it is a fact that they were protected and benefited from their connections. And the diplomatic pressures confirm it. The PJ was told to investigate an abduction, not a missing child case. Yes, the evidence is circumstantial. I'm just not sure that if there weren't interferences the evidence might not be so circumstantial.

Great post Claudia, and I agree with your views entirely.... and especially the last sentence.

It was a last minute crappy plan that fell apart from the get go.... and every time they tried to rewrite history, they made another blunder on top of the other, and exposed another error. The more mistakes the McCanns made, the more money and favours they needed to generate to distract from them. This is why they never shut up....

Thanks, Pennylane!