Its alright Gerry, its a theory that is about to be purported.

Loopdaloop Sun 19 May - 15:41

The general scenario of what happened I subscribe to is

Child with behaviour difficulties + difficulties sleeping + Parent with anesthesia knowledge = liberties being taken and children drugged to sleep.

Due to alcohol - Competency of parent reduced. Aforementioned child woke up groggy, has accident whilst looking for parents however due to the medication altered blood pressure / impact upon breathing upon injury results in death. I have over the years been leaning to this occuring prior the 'abduction' and thus the falsified pictures and lack of clarity with regard to creche timelines etc etc.

However, as of today I am willing to entertain a new theory:

Child with behaviour difficulties + difficulties sleeping + Parent with anesthesia knowledge = liberties being taken and children drugged to sleep.
Child wakes up cries, stranger soothes... Child next day questions parents... but neglect happens again.
This is the only version in which I could briefly entertain the idea that a 'they bastards' that 'have taken her', could have come in and adopted her out of goodwill as they saw her repeatedly neglected. This is the only possible way in my mind that the 'abduction scenario could make any sense as it would explain aspects of the misinformation as it would be clear to the world that the Mccann's were negelecting their kids.

Yet then I remember the dogs.. .and I again rule out this new scenario and am back to the initial one.

mummy45 Sun 19 May - 15:46

I am leaning to that scenario too. I have always thought they were very drunk/whatever and that is why the whole thing is so confused. I have experience with addiction (not me!) and the video of kate (whoosh clunk) she was off her face. I have dealt with similar.Have also thought if teh children were used to having meds around she may have taken some of parents stash in error

Loopdaloop Sun 19 May - 15:57

mummy45 wrote:I am leaning to that scenario too. I have always thought they were very drunk/whatever and that is why the whole thing is so confused. I have experience with addiction (not me!) and the video of kate (whoosh clunk) she was off her face. I have dealt with similar.Have also thought if teh children were used to having meds around she may have taken some of parents stash in error

I don't think she would have taken the drugs in error, I think she was given the drugs for the specific reason of keeping her asleep.
The reason I think this is due to Kate putting her hands under the other twins noses and suggesting it was possible they were drugged (which if toxicology revealed they did have drugs in their system would be a viable excuse until people found out what happened to maddie)
The second reason I think they gave her the drugs is due to the behaviour reward system that the Mccann's had on their fridge to use to help their daughter sleep. The reason for this is that 'reward' systems that deal with the consequences of a behaviour, for children, after it happened are largely ineffective. The Mccann's being doctors and aware of the 'magic' of meds, as well as Kates specialist training would have wanted more of a quick fix. Doctors treat 'symptoms', not the causes and they would have seen her difficulty going to sleep as being a 'symptom' they would want to reduce whilst they enjoyed their holiday. Addressing the cause of the problem (an interaction of parenting style [which we know was pretty lax/neglectful], vs any possible genetic issues [as colomboma is associated with developmental disabilities] ) would have been too time consuming for them considering what we know of their personalities and their lifestyles.

mummy45 Sun 19 May - 16:01

What I meant was if she had seen her parents taking drugs she may well have copied. Kate was nor normal in that video I have seen it before with Cocaine

**MaryB** Sun 19 May - 16:05

This puzzle remains. A chart was on the fridge because Madeleine was a difficult sleeper. On holiday why would this change. And how do they know she wouldn't wake up and go wandering out of the apartment if it was meant to be unlocked. All this is such basic elementary stuff. Why are the police not looking into this.

Loopdaloop Sun 19 May - 16:15

mummy45 wrote:What I meant was if she had seen her parents taking drugs she may well have copied. Kate was nor normal in that video I have seen it before with Cocaine

I do believe that the Tapas have some sort of shared enterprise.
Some have suggested 'swinging', although i'm not sure what the basis of that one was?
Others have suggested Pedophilia, hence the gaspars statement RE: David Payne as well as Yvonne Martin the social worker who's specialist subject is.... child protection, then there is also that mystery file on the police database.
I wondered whether the shared enterprise was the the drugging of the children, but they could have also been on a recreational drug binge!

You're not the first to mention cocaine

Amaral said: "The police case is we are sure the parents kiled Madeleine. They are both doctors and know about drugs. We are confident in our case." One of the group outrageously chipped in how he believed the couple could have taken cocaine on the night Madeleine disappeared.

taken from: Exclusive: Disgrace of Madeline cop, 30 September 2007

THE SEARCH FOR MADELEINE: DAY 150

Grant Hodgson In Praia Da Luz 30/09/2007

which has been whooshed from the net but is on maddie files
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id25.html

Loopdaloop Sun 19 May - 16:16

MaryB wrote:This puzzle remains. A chart was on the fridge because Madeleine was a difficult sleeper. On holiday why would this change. And how do they know she wouldn't wake up and go wandering out of the apartment if it was meant to be unlocked. All this is such basic elementary stuff. Why are the police not looking into this.

Exactly! this makes it even worse doesn't it!

**Lioned** Sun 19 May - 16:24

That might explain why gerry always looks like he's got something stuck up his nose and kate looks like an old hag.

chrissie1 Sun 19 May - 16:27

6 YEARS and i am more baffled than ever, who told the police that Maddie was crying the night before, and two people went to calm her down

mummy45 Sun 19 May - 16:37

chrissie1 wrote:6 YEARS and i am more baffled than ever, who told the police that Maddie was crying the night before, and two people went to calm her down

This is what I want to know
These people could be key to everything if they exist
Are they suspects and if they are surely they would be easy enough to find

comperedna Sun 19 May - 16:49

Post Loopdaloop Today at 15:41
The general scenario of what happened I subscribe to is

Child with behaviour difficulties + difficulties sleeping + Parent with anesthesia knowledge = liberties being taken and children drugged to sleep.

Due to alcohol - Competency of parent reduced. Aforementioned child woke up groggy, has accident whilst looking for parents however due to the medication altered blood pressure / impact upon breathing upon injury results in death. I have over the years been leaning to this occuring prior the 'abduction' and thus the falsified pictures and lack of clarity with regard to creche timelines etc etc.

However, as of today I am willing to entertain a new theory:

Child with behaviour difficulties + difficulties sleeping + Parent with anesthesia knowledge = liberties being taken and children drugged to sleep.
Child wakes up cries, stranger soothes... Child next day questions parents... but neglect happens again.
This is the only version in which I could briefly entertain the idea that a 'they bastards' that 'have taken her', could have come in and adopted her out of goodwill as they saw her repeatedly neglected. This is the only possible way in my mind that the 'abduction scenario could make any sense as it would explain aspects of the misinformation as it would be clear to the world that the Mccann's were negelecting their kids.

Yet then I remember the dogs.. .and I again rule out this new scenario and am back to the initial one.

Spot on Loopdaloop That is almost exactly where I am too.

Loopdaloop Sun 19 May - 18:00

In the battle of the narratives....

Clarence lost; The Express won, so now the mail has jumped onto what is clearly now a bandwagon...

Did Madeleine McCann abductor stay in same resort? Investigators probe new leads amid claims couple 'soothed' crying three-year-old before she disappeared
Scotland Yard believed to be tracing holidaymakers at the complex
Met Police detectives conducting a review of the Portuguese inquiry
Sources say investigators also looking for middle-aged couple seen going into the child's room to comfort her as she cried
By BECKY EVANS
PUBLISHED: 16:52, 19 May 2013 | UPDATED: 17:49, 19 May 2013
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British detectives investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann are probing claims a middle-aged couple 'soothed' the child the evening before she was abducted, it has been reported.
Scotland Yard are also believed to be re-interviewing holidaymakers and staff at the complex where the three-year-old was last seen as part of an ongoing review into her abduction.
They have drawn up a list of suspects, including British cleaners and Portuguese manual workers, who have been identified as 'people of interest' during a review of the inquiry.

Detectives are believed to be investigating whether a couple comforted a crying Madeleine McCann

Scotland Yard are focusing their investigation on the blocks surrounding Block 5, where the McCanns were staying and believe the abductor may have been staying on the resort in Praia Da Luz, Portugal
Detectives are also probing whether the kidnapper was staying on one of the holiday flats at the Ocean Club.

More...
Scotland Yard hunt six British cleaners driving a white van in search for missing Maddie
'There is a possibility she is still alive': Scotland Yard identify 20 new suspects in hunt for Madeleine McCann - but Portuguese will not re-open inquiry
Madeleine disappeared in May, 2007, as her parents Gerry and Kate ate dinner with friends about 50 yards away at a tapas bar.
She was left in the family's rented apartment at the resort in Praia de Luz, along with twin siblings Sean and Amelie.
Two witnesses said they saw a middle-aged couple enter the apartment to comfort Madeleine, who was crying, The Sunday Express has reported.
The newspaper quoted a source as saying: 'Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.'
Detectives are now believed to be trying to identify the couple as part of an ongoing review into the case - codenamed Operation Grange.

Gerry McCann and Kate McCann hold their twins Sean and Amelie at the Ocean Club Resort in 2007

The Ocean Club in Praia da Luz where Maddie disappeared. Portuguese police refuse to reopen the case
The investigation is now thought to be focusing on a small number of apartment blocks close to block 5, where the McCann family were staying.
The investigation includes identifying the owners, holidaymakers and those who may have illegally been subletting the flats at the time Madeleine disappeared.
Blocks four and six, which are situated either side of the McCann building, and block two, which is behind their apartment, are the central to the investigation.
There are fears that someone staying in the complex may have been able to watch the family's movements from their flat.
Among those detectives want to speak to are British cleaners and 'low-level' workers, such as handymen and gardeners, The Mail on Sunday learned.
Some are thought to have been employed by the Ocean Club complex on a casual basis and may have already been interviewed.
Police are said to be keen to trace six British cleaners who were working in Praia da Luz when Madeleine vanished and who did not appear in the Portuguese files.
They are said to have used a white van and went from apartment to apartment offering their services, chiefly concentrating on expats.

Madeleine disappeared in 2007 when she was on holiday with her parents and brother and sister in Portugal

Kate and Gerry McCann have never given up hunting for their daughter
A British owner of one of the apartments said he had been asked about the cleaners by police from Operation Grange and had been told that blocks five, six, two and four were of particular interest.
He told The Sunday Mirror: 'Every one of the properties they are interested in is right next door to, or on top of, the one where the little girl went missing.
'The officer said the people of interest were located in one of those blocks at the time'.
Detective Chief Superintendent Hamish Campbell, head of Scotland Yard’s Homicide and Serious Crime Command, said this week that he believes Madeleine may still be alive - despite it being five years since her disappearance.
He said: 'You only have to look at the case in Cleveland, Ohio, and the European cases. Of course there is a possibility she is alive. But the key is to investigate the case and, alive or dead, we should be able to try and discern what happened.’
Despite the extraordinary amount of publicity Madeleine's disappearance generated, she has not been seen since May, 2007.

Senior Met Police officers believe Madeleine (pictured left, and in an artist's impression of how she may look aged nine, right) may still be alive and said the Cleveland kidnappings show there could still be hope
Jane Tanner, who was at the tapas bar with the McCanns, told police she saw a man carrying a child the night Madeleine disappeared.
However, no one has ever been traced.
Detectives examining the Portuguese files were alarmed that the original inquiry had not traced and interviewed all the staff and holidaymakers who were at the Ocean Club when Madeleine went missing.
Last year the Met said that it had identified 195 fresh leads that should have been investigated either by conducting further witness interviews, eliminating suspects or carrying out forensic tests that were missing from the 2007 inquiry.
Officers found unexplained gaps in the investigation timeline and that there had been a complete lack of forensic examination of mobile phone activity in the area on the night Madeleine disappeared.
However, police in Portugal said they would only reopen the case if new evidence came to light.
A spokesman for the McCanns said earlier this week: ‘They have been encouraged from the moment the review started and are now greatly encouraged that police have drawn up a short list of people who they believe are of interest to the inquiry.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2326977/Did-Madeleine-McCann-abductor-stay-resort-Investigators-probe-new-leads-amid-claims-couple-soothed-crying-year-old-disappeared.html

Dear Mccann's,
Very encouraging this isnt it!
Perhaps this counts as the 'new evidence' the portugese have been waiting for to reopen the case.
Perhaps you should go to the police station with everyone and help them along with their enquires.
If you don't surely you are hindering the case. You want to find this phantom 'couple' don't you.
What on earth were they doing in your apartment... EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act - Page 13 291673

EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act - Page 13 291673

the daily mail must hate having to report the daily express, as it realises that they had the real story and they were actually fed a dud!

**tanszi** Sun 19 May - 18:03

well I think the papers are reporting well in the public interest.

**Annabel** Sun 19 May - 18:16

Is this where kidnapper spied on Madeleine McCann? Police narrow search to FOUR apartment blocks

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kidnapper-spied-madeleine-mccann-police-1897649

**fred** Sun 19 May - 18:27

Annabel wrote:

Is this where kidnapper spied on Madeleine McCann? Police narrow search to FOUR apartment blocks

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kidnapper-spied-madeleine-mccann-police-1897649

That photo isn't the Tapas bar, for one thing!

interested Sun 19 May - 19:37

The Daily Mail is reporting a "major diplomatic row is brewing".

There shouldn't be a diplomatic gridlock in the case of a murdered child.

chrissie1 Sun 19 May - 20:03

Annabel wrote:

Is this where kidnapper spied on Madeleine McCann? Police narrow search to FOUR apartment blocks

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kidnapper-spied-madeleine-mccann-police-1897649

So the kidnappers just happen to be in an apartment that overlooks the one were the children have been left,night after night,how lucky is that!Also random strangers entering and soothing the child unbloodybelievable

**margaret** Sun 19 May - 21:01

chrissie1 wrote:
Annabel wrote:

Is this where kidnapper spied on Madeleine McCann? Police narrow search to FOUR apartment blocks

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/kidnapper-spied-madeleine-mccann-police-1897649
So the kidnappers just happen to be in an apartment that overlooks the one were the children have been left,night after night,how lucky is that!Also random strangers entering and soothing the child unbloodybelievable

I was reading David Paynes statements today and he said they needed a key to open the door from outside so this story can't even be true, unless whoever it was gained entry with a key which only leaves the parents and anyone they gave the key to or OC staff.

squeaker Sun 19 May - 21:03

I am not surprised a diplomatic row is brewing. The Portuguese police did the best they could and all the British do is call them "bungling" in our press and "F***ing tossers" in a published book! Even after 6 years they are being insulted as much as ever.

susible Sun 19 May - 21:05

Well it has to be the weirdest twist in this most bizarre story. I wonder what the source is for this mystery couple? Who knew about them and the most obvious why would no one have heard anything about it until now?

Unless of course it is an elaborate diversion from the Mc's themselves...to be honest nothing would surprise me with this pair and of course ties up Kate's original belief, for which there was no evidence whatsoever, that Madeleine had been abducted by a couple and that has enabled them to continually push that Madeleine is still alive.

FFS...there is never anything straightforward about this case and I really do hope that the recent rumblings are shortly going to erupt and finally bring a resolution to this case and hopefully justice for a little girl, who IMO sadly, did not leave that apartment alive.

**MaryB** Sun 19 May - 21:17

A criminal investigation into the disappearance and possible murder of a child should be above politics and the police should be allowed to get on with the job to solve the case and bring those responsible to justice. It's like something out of Judge John Deed. But he always stood up to the politicians.

**dazedandconfused** Sun 19 May - 21:52

I thought from the ever changing statements, that the door was left unlocked. So couldn't the kindly couple just have walked in?

**cass** Sun 19 May - 22:38

its heartbreaking to think just what a bleeding horrible holiday all those babys had tapas children included

**dutchclogs** Mon 20 May - 5:30

interested wrote:The Daily Mail is reporting a "major diplomatic row is brewing".

There shouldn't be a diplomatic gridlock in the case of a murdered child.

Well said

EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act - Page 13 307691

**Annabel** Mon 20 May - 7:25

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/315492/MADDIE-COPS-HUNT-8-BRITS/

MADDIE COPS HUNT 8 BRITS

20th May 2013
By Jerry Lawton

Image
ABOVE: Madeleine McCann as she might look today

EIGHT Brits are on the police hitlist of new suspects wanted for questioning over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

They include six cleaners with a white van who were working in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz when the then three-year-old vanished.

Detectives also want to quiz a middle-aged British couple said to have entered the McCanns’ apartment the night before Madeleine disappeared after hearing crying.

"They are among 12 “people of interest” identified by a 30-strong team of Scotland Yard detectives who have spent the past two years reviewing the case."

Workers at the Ocean Club resort, where Madeleine was staying with her doctor parents Kate, 45, and Gerry, 44, are also on the list. They include a handyman, a cleaner and a gardener.

Det Chief Supt Hamish Campbell of Scotland Yard revealed the UK team’s inquiries had unearthed “a lot of people who could be explored further if only to be eliminated”.

The team of Brit cleaners went from apartment to apartment offering their services with a focus on ex-pats.

A source said there was “quite a culture of people drifting from door to door” offering to tidy gardens and scrub windows or roofs.

The middle-aged couple were spotted by two witnesses with an apartment overlooking the garden of 5a where Madeleine was staying in May 2007.

The witnesses say the couple may have entered the apartment on May 2, just 24 hours before the youngster vanished, to comfort her after hearing her crying.

At the time Madeleine’s parents were dining with pals in a nearby tapas bar.

Madeleine disappeared the following night while her parents, of Rothley, Leics, were again in the tapas bar.

Portuguese police are said to be impressed by the work of the UK detectives.

But they can only re-open the case if new evidence comes to light.

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EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Its alright Gerry, its a theory that is about to be purported.

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

wow!!!

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act

Re: EXCLUSIVE: British police identify 'Maddy suspects' and urge Portuguese to act