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Police bust-up sparks fear for Madeleine McCann investigation (Daily Star)

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Post  kitti Mon 5 Aug - 22:27

I can go with what your saying Iris BUT Madeleine would know she is Madeleine.


She would have to be in a place with no tv, never going go school and no neighbours.


There ain't no such place apart from the Amazon.
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Post  dazedandconfused Mon 5 Aug - 22:35

I would be delighted to hear that Madeleine is still alive & being cared for but can't dismiss the dogs findings & I can't go with the planting of evidence theory.

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Post  Guest Mon 5 Aug - 22:47

Yeah, I know... I am just throwing ideas around, and have been since May 2007. It would be nice to think that Maddie is alive and being cared for somewhere, but I very much doubt it. I think the wee soul's been dead for the past six years.
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Post  DavidA Mon 5 Aug - 22:52

Palmeras16 wrote:
Iris wrote:I have entertained that theory before Lioned, and I haven't ruled it out completely.

Madeleine is alive and well and living with relatives.  Kate and Gerry aren't acting as a couple grieving for the loss of their child, because they know bloody fine where she is, and that she's okay.  Hence the smiles, the not bothering to look, all their energy concentrated on setting up companies and shops, the paid-for false sightings, the keeping the twins up to speed so that they will know her when she does come back, the sheer smug arrogance of knowing that they have fooled everybody and are still getting away with it.

Having said that, I don't believe that Eddie and Keela were wrong.  They did find cadaverine and blood - planted, obviously.  But by whom?

Gerry would have the knowledge and means to do it, but I don't think he did.  The genuine shock on his face after leaving Portimao nick showed that something happened in there that wasn't in the master plan.  Something swept in on the outside rail that wasn't part of the Wider Agenda.  Did the police tell him about the cadaverine and blood?  He certainly didn't see that one coming.  

Cue all the dissing the dogs trolling, and tripe in Kate's book of filth and lies.  And do we see them asking to know who did die in 5A?  No, we do not!

Sadly, I think someone in the PJ may have planted it, meaning well, to try and force a confession.  Except it didn't work, and the twisters are still running about loose.  Only in a perverse sort of way, now everyone believes Madeleine is dead, when quite possibly she isn't.  So if they now produce her out of thin air, everyone will know that it was a scam from the very beginning.  Maybe that's why they look so bloody miserable now.

The planted evidence theory certainly explains the hastily shelved case, the apparent disregard of the EVRD dog alerts and the current review/investigation headed by SY which is costing the taxpayer millions for just one missing child.

I think the idea that such evidence was planted, at that stage would be impossible. Planting the correct particles would need expert knowledge and more than a few PJ who would need to be involved.

From the very beginning, the PJ was being discredited. So the problems with the case started before the evidence found by the dogs. I do not think any PJ would risk something like this when the world was watching the case.

Plus, if this evidence was a surprise to Gerry and Kate, I think they would want to find out more. It would suggest something had happened to their daughter. They would not want to ignore this, if they had nothing to hide.
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Post  Guest Mon 5 Aug - 23:02

kitti wrote:I can go with what your saying Iris BUT Madeleine would know she is Madeleine.


She would have to be in a place with no tv, never going go school and  no neighbours.


There ain't no such place apart from the Amazon.

Kitti, when I was a teaching assistant (back when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth) there were two wee boys at the school who went on holiday to Spain to see their estranged Dad, and at the end of the holiday he refused to send them back. In those days there was no extradition treaty or Hague Convention agreements between the UK and Spain and the Government flatly refused to get involved, despite that fact that custody had been awarded to the mum by a Scottish court and ratified by a Spanish one. The father was in contempt of both courts. The Spanish Government also did nothing to help. The poor woman was completely on her own.

That woman travelled all over Spain looking for her boys. The father came from a big extended family and every time she got too close, they were just moved on. She spent every penny she had and I think she even sold her house to hire some private detectives, who managed to get her boys back. I remember seeing them on the TV as they arrived at the airport. They had little black tracksuits on and the only English words that they could remember at all were "Hello Mum".
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Post  Guest Mon 5 Aug - 23:08

DavidA wrote:
Palmeras16 wrote:
Iris wrote:I have entertained that theory before Lioned, and I haven't ruled it out completely.

Madeleine is alive and well and living with relatives.  Kate and Gerry aren't acting as a couple grieving for the loss of their child, because they know bloody fine where she is, and that she's okay.  Hence the smiles, the not bothering to look, all their energy concentrated on setting up companies and shops, the paid-for false sightings, the keeping the twins up to speed so that they will know her when she does come back, the sheer smug arrogance of knowing that they have fooled everybody and are still getting away with it.

Having said that, I don't believe that Eddie and Keela were wrong.  They did find cadaverine and blood - planted, obviously.  But by whom?

Gerry would have the knowledge and means to do it, but I don't think he did.  The genuine shock on his face after leaving Portimao nick showed that something happened in there that wasn't in the master plan.  Something swept in on the outside rail that wasn't part of the Wider Agenda.  Did the police tell him about the cadaverine and blood?  He certainly didn't see that one coming.  

Cue all the dissing the dogs trolling, and tripe in Kate's book of filth and lies.  And do we see them asking to know who did die in 5A?  No, we do not!

Sadly, I think someone in the PJ may have planted it, meaning well, to try and force a confession.  Except it didn't work, and the twisters are still running about loose.  Only in a perverse sort of way, now everyone believes Madeleine is dead, when quite possibly she isn't.  So if they now produce her out of thin air, everyone will know that it was a scam from the very beginning.  Maybe that's why they look so bloody miserable now.

The planted evidence theory certainly explains the hastily shelved case, the apparent disregard of the EVRD dog alerts and the current review/investigation headed by SY which is costing the taxpayer millions for just one missing child.

I think the idea that such evidence was planted, at that stage would be impossible. Planting the correct particles would need expert knowledge and more than a few PJ who would need to be involved.

From the very beginning, the PJ was being discredited. So the problems with the case started before the evidence found by the dogs. I do not think any PJ would risk something like this when the world was watching the case.

Plus, if this evidence was a surprise to Gerry and Kate, I think they would want to find out more. It would suggest something had happened to their daughter. They would not want to ignore this, if they had nothing to hide.

Actually that is not true. At the very beginning the McCanns said that they were happy with the work the PJ had done, that the investigation was professionally handled. It was only after the dogs were brought in that it all went pear shaped.

Police bust-up sparks fear for Madeleine McCann investigation (Daily Star) - Page 4 21267_1
Before. Arrogant, cocky and up himself.

Police bust-up sparks fear for Madeleine McCann investigation (Daily Star) - Page 4 Gerryarguido
After. Shell-shocked, I would say. What happened in there that he hadn't factored into his Wider Agenda?
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Post  margaret Mon 5 Aug - 23:17

Meanwhile, the expression of the man next to him says it all, he's positively enjoying Gerrys downfall.
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Post  Loopdaloop Tue 6 Aug - 0:11

Not Born Yesterday wrote:That's a good post, comperedna, regarding the motivation of Palmeras16.
 
It's good that there are people here with differing opinions on this most baffling case but those like him or her and Snowflake do themselves no credit by just making the odd silly comment and then legging it!
 
If they would only debate sensibly, you never know, they might even make people believe that the McCanns had nothing to do with whatever happened to their daughter.
 
I agree with what Iris has just posted about Susan Healy; hard as nails, must know more than she says and deserves no sympathy.

I believe that Palmera is connected somehow, either family member or friend.
I got the impression that the money has dried up for the digital media strategic manipulation teams for the time being. Hence the echoing silence we've had for a while.
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Post  DavidA Tue 6 Aug - 0:37

Iris wrote:
DavidA wrote:
Palmeras16 wrote:
Iris wrote:I have entertained that theory before Lioned, and I haven't ruled it out completely.

Madeleine is alive and well and living with relatives.  Kate and Gerry aren't acting as a couple grieving for the loss of their child, because they know bloody fine where she is, and that she's okay.  Hence the smiles, the not bothering to look, all their energy concentrated on setting up companies and shops, the paid-for false sightings, the keeping the twins up to speed so that they will know her when she does come back, the sheer smug arrogance of knowing that they have fooled everybody and are still getting away with it.

Having said that, I don't believe that Eddie and Keela were wrong.  They did find cadaverine and blood - planted, obviously.  But by whom?

Gerry would have the knowledge and means to do it, but I don't think he did.  The genuine shock on his face after leaving Portimao nick showed that something happened in there that wasn't in the master plan.  Something swept in on the outside rail that wasn't part of the Wider Agenda.  Did the police tell him about the cadaverine and blood?  He certainly didn't see that one coming.  

Cue all the dissing the dogs trolling, and tripe in Kate's book of filth and lies.  And do we see them asking to know who did die in 5A?  No, we do not!

Sadly, I think someone in the PJ may have planted it, meaning well, to try and force a confession.  Except it didn't work, and the twisters are still running about loose.  Only in a perverse sort of way, now everyone believes Madeleine is dead, when quite possibly she isn't.  So if they now produce her out of thin air, everyone will know that it was a scam from the very beginning.  Maybe that's why they look so bloody miserable now.

The planted evidence theory certainly explains the hastily shelved case, the apparent disregard of the EVRD dog alerts and the current review/investigation headed by SY which is costing the taxpayer millions for just one missing child.

I think the idea that such evidence was planted, at that stage would be impossible. Planting the correct particles would need expert knowledge and more than a few PJ who would need to be involved.

From the very beginning, the PJ was being discredited. So the problems with the case started before the evidence found by the dogs. I do not think any PJ would risk something like this when the world was watching the case.

Plus, if this evidence was a surprise to Gerry and Kate, I think they would want to find out more. It would suggest something had happened to their daughter. They would not want to ignore this, if they had nothing to hide.

Actually that is not true.  At the very beginning the McCanns said that they were happy with the work the PJ had done, that the investigation was professionally handled.  It was only after the dogs were brought in that it all went pear shaped.
.............

I do not think discussing what is true or not true is a good idea because the one thing this case is not is clear. When it happened most things were very unclear, and the media had many stories. But I do remember complaints about the PJ from the McCanns or UK media, or maybe both, very early in the case.

I do not believe the PJ would have planted anything considering the media interest. I also think, considering all the evidence we see, that the dogs finding what they did does not suggest planting. I think it suggests something very sad, and suggests something happened that was not an abduction.
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Post  tanszi Tue 6 Aug - 2:04

I don't think the PJ planted anything at all. why would they? where would they have got Madeleine's dna. for gods sake there wasn't any of her's in the apartment, her father had to go back to Rothley to get a pillow or something so where on earth would the PJ have got something to plant. we are only discussing this because I think it was Kate's mother inferred that it was planted and the parents were being set up. I dont believe that for one second.
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Post  Guest Tue 6 Aug - 2:21

The pillowslip is a red herring. Who truly believes that the PJ would be so incompetent as to ask a suspect to go off and collect their own evidence, and then just accept it as being authentic! No Police Force in the world would do that.
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Post  weissnicht Tue 6 Aug - 3:28

Lioned wrote:They cannot enter a debate on this sensibly,it is impossible to support parents who are abject failures and hold the high ground.
Absolutely no evidence of an abduction but plenty of evidence that the mccann 'parents' are useless at looking after their children.
When you mention the dogs they get head rush,never fails.
Exactly.
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Post  T4two Tue 6 Aug - 6:06

Iris wrote:
comperedna wrote:She is right on quite a few counts. She says Kate and Gerry were made arguidos for their own protection and so that they could have their lawyer present. It's a pity the pair were not questioned as simple witnesses. Witnesses are required to answer questions, arguidos are not... presumably because they might incriminate themselves? I too feel sorry for Mrs Healy. She has lost her eldest grandchild. The whole shebang must be awful for her.

I have no sympathy for her.  She knows more than she is saying.  And she still cannot let her little grandchild have a dignified burial.

My reaction too. Hard as nails and as with the other family members always 100% unquestioning support for the parents - where's the support for Madeleine?
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Post  AnnaEsse Tue 6 Aug - 7:52

Iris wrote:
DavidA wrote:
Palmeras16 wrote:
Iris wrote:I have entertained that theory before Lioned, and I haven't ruled it out completely.

Madeleine is alive and well and living with relatives.  Kate and Gerry aren't acting as a couple grieving for the loss of their child, because they know bloody fine where she is, and that she's okay.  Hence the smiles, the not bothering to look, all their energy concentrated on setting up companies and shops, the paid-for false sightings, the keeping the twins up to speed so that they will know her when she does come back, the sheer smug arrogance of knowing that they have fooled everybody and are still getting away with it.

Having said that, I don't believe that Eddie and Keela were wrong.  They did find cadaverine and blood - planted, obviously.  But by whom?

Gerry would have the knowledge and means to do it, but I don't think he did.  The genuine shock on his face after leaving Portimao nick showed that something happened in there that wasn't in the master plan.  Something swept in on the outside rail that wasn't part of the Wider Agenda.  Did the police tell him about the cadaverine and blood?  He certainly didn't see that one coming.  

Cue all the dissing the dogs trolling, and tripe in Kate's book of filth and lies.  And do we see them asking to know who did die in 5A?  No, we do not!

Sadly, I think someone in the PJ may have planted it, meaning well, to try and force a confession.  Except it didn't work, and the twisters are still running about loose.  Only in a perverse sort of way, now everyone believes Madeleine is dead, when quite possibly she isn't.  So if they now produce her out of thin air, everyone will know that it was a scam from the very beginning.  Maybe that's why they look so bloody miserable now.

The planted evidence theory certainly explains the hastily shelved case, the apparent disregard of the EVRD dog alerts and the current review/investigation headed by SY which is costing the taxpayer millions for just one missing child.

I think the idea that such evidence was planted, at that stage would be impossible. Planting the correct particles would need expert knowledge and more than a few PJ who would need to be involved.

From the very beginning, the PJ was being discredited. So the problems with the case started before the evidence found by the dogs. I do not think any PJ would risk something like this when the world was watching the case.

Plus, if this evidence was a surprise to Gerry and Kate, I think they would want to find out more. It would suggest something had happened to their daughter. They would not want to ignore this, if they had nothing to hide.

Actually that is not true.  At the very beginning the McCanns said that they were happy with the work the PJ had done, that the investigation was professionally handled.  It was only after the dogs were brought in that it all went pear shaped.

Police bust-up sparks fear for Madeleine McCann investigation (Daily Star) - Page 4 21267_1
Before.  Arrogant, cocky and up himself.

Police bust-up sparks fear for Madeleine McCann investigation (Daily Star) - Page 4 Gerryarguido
After.  Shell-shocked, I would say.  What happened in there that he hadn't factored into his Wider Agenda?

Gerry McCann's blogs day 61, Tuesday July 3rd 2007

We were asked what was the hardest day since Madeleine disappeared and replied that every day has been hard without Madeleine. We also stated that our determination to find Madeleine is matched by the Portuguese police and that we have a good working relationship with them. Our frequent meetings with the police help us stay informed, allow us to feed information into the investigation and let clarify information with senior officers conducting the investigation

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/DAYS_51_to_100.htm
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Post  comperedna Tue 6 Aug - 13:22

I honestly don't know about the character of Susan Healy. How could I? I have only seen the same video clips as you, but I have no idea how much she knows, what she suspects, or whatever. However, her daughter and family went on holiday and then all hell broke loose, and she 'lost' her oldest grandchild. I can put myself in her position a bit, as I have a grandchild and then twins in the family with the same age gap. I don't know if she is as 'hard as nails' as some say. Human nature says she must be miserable about it all, and she can clearly have had nothing to do with the 'disapperance' itself.
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Post  tanszi Tue 6 Aug - 13:49

comperedna, I can agree with almost all of what you said. what im not disagreeing with but find so hard it that she must have her doubts, anybody would, in those quiet moments when you think things don't add up and you don't want them to not add up. what do you do, you grin and bear it and carry on, put on a brave face, but your thoughts are your own. I think she came out against the PJ withj the "planted" idea because she was seeming not to support K and G when she said she wanted to hit them for leaving the grandchildren just m.o.
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Post  duncanmac Tue 6 Aug - 13:52

tanszi wrote:I don't think the PJ planted anything at all.  why would they?

Totally agree with this, who in heavens earth would ever have thought to plant a small scent in a flower bed and for what reason ?
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Post  T4two Tue 6 Aug - 14:09

comperedna wrote:I honestly don't know about the character of Susan Healy. How could I? I have only seen the same video clips as you, but I have no idea how much she knows, what she suspects, or whatever. However, her daughter and family went on holiday and then all hell broke loose, and she 'lost' her oldest grandchild. I can put myself in her position a bit, as I have a grandchild and then twins in the family with the same age gap. I don't know if she is as 'hard as nails' as some say. Human nature says she must be miserable about it all, and she can clearly have had nothing to do with the 'disapperance' itself.

We have no proof of that either.
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Post  Guest Tue 6 Aug - 15:00

I know that we all react differently in a crisis situation but, if I found myself in a similar situation to Susan Healy - relatives telling one porkie after another to try to explain why my grand-daughter was no longer around - I wouldn't support them or claim that the nasty foreign police were trying to frame my little angels.
 
If we can believe what the McCanns now say, Madeleine's eye defect wasn't very noticeable and they didn't give it much prominence. The campaign to "advertise" the supposed defect was absolutely massive right from the start; why did Mrs Healy and other relatives never comment publicly that this was not true and, by promoting a distinguishing mark that Madeleine did not have, it would hinder the search for her.
 
We know how upset the McCanns get about anyone who points out home truths about them; they are claimed to be "hindering the search". I suggest that they get on to Carter-Ruck immediately with a view to suing themselves.
 
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Post  kathybelle Tue 6 Aug - 20:08

From what I've seen of Gerry's mother and his siblings as well as Kate's mother, they are all as hard as nails. I've said it before and I'll say it again, none of them got off their backsides to look for Madeleine, when they were told she was 'missing', even though all of them are able bodied. I haven't mentioned Kate's father, because according to the media, he had and probably still has serious health issues.

Every single one of the McCanns family, including Kate and Gerry, have made money their God. Gerry's siblings started the ball rolling, when they appeared on television a few days after Madeleine disappeared. They spoke about a fund that they were setting up, to find Madeleine, even though the Portuguese taxpayers, were funding the search for her. None of them showed any emotion when they spoke about Madeleine, in fact John McCann was grinning like a 'Cheshire cat,' when he spoke about the fund.

I can never forget how sickened I was, when I saw the video of Gerry's mother, where she stated how uplifted Gerry was, now the fund was up and running.

I have also seen a photograph of Kate's mother, with some other people, smiling as she counted donations that had been sent through the post at her home or the home of her daughter and son-in-law. Then of course there is the photograph of Kate and Gerry, smiling as they counted the money that was rolling in. They knew that not one penny of that money, would be spent on searching for Madeleine, they knew the money would be used to pay for the services of dodgy P.I's who never lifted a finger to find Madeleine. As well as helping the finances of themselves and their family. What a con trick the McCanns and their family, played on people who sent their hard earned money to them, thinking that all of it would be spent on searches for Madeleine.

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Post  Guest Tue 6 Aug - 20:28

Kathybelle, I know the photo that you mean about the McCanns counting money but I'm 99% sure that it was a photo-shopped hoax. It's very difficult to tell the difference between hoaxes and anything genuinely said or put out by them.

I agree with everything else you say.

If the whole Madeleine "abduction" and money-making ventures do prove to be one of the biggest hoaxes ever pulled, in my opinion the whole family must be involved.
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Post  kathybelle Tue 6 Aug - 20:31

tanszi wrote:comperedna, I can agree with almost all of what you said.  what im not disagreeing with but find so hard it that she must have her doubts, anybody would, in those quiet moments when you think things don't add up and you don't want them to not add up.  what do you do, you grin and bear it and carry on, put on a brave face, but your thoughts are your own.  I think she came out against the PJ withj the "planted" idea because she was seeming not to support K and G when she said she wanted to hit them for leaving the grandchildren just m.o.

Hi Tanzi

Regarding Susan Healey wanting to hit her daughter and son-in-law, for leaving her grandchildren alone, when they went out, I've just found this link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-562756/I-shake-daughter-Tapas-7-leaving-Madeleine-says-Kate-McCanns-mother.html

Well done (not) to the police, for using public funds, to drive the Healy's from their Formby home, to Manchester Airport, so they could fly out to be with their daughter and son-in-law. Oh I forgot, the police were probably ordered to run the Healy's to Manchester Airport, by the then Chief Constable of Liverpool, Bernard Hogan-Howe, who was and probably still is, a friend of the Healy's. In fact Hogan-Howe is so good a friend, that he went to the Healy's home, to help light those dangerous Chinese Lanterns, that the Healys, along with their friends, were sending into the sky, on one of the anniversaries of Madeleine's disappearance.

Hogan-Howe, is now the head of Scotland Yard. Am I being cynical, when I say that I have a hunch, that Bernard Hogan-Howe, could be behind Scotland Yard's public announcement, that the McCanns and their friends are not persons of interest to them?

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Post  Lillyofthevalley Tue 6 Aug - 20:42

Iris wrote:
kitti wrote:I can go with what your saying Iris BUT Madeleine would know she is Madeleine.


She would have to be in a place with no tv, never going go school and  no neighbours.


There ain't no such place apart from the Amazon.

Kitti, when I was a teaching assistant (back when Dinosaurs roamed the Earth) there were two wee boys at the school who went on holiday to Spain to see their estranged Dad, and at the end of the holiday he refused to send them back.  In those days there was no extradition treaty or Hague Convention agreements between the UK and Spain and the Government flatly refused to get involved, despite that fact that custody had been awarded to the mum by a Scottish court and ratified by a Spanish one.  The father was in contempt of both courts.  The Spanish Government also did nothing to help.  The poor woman was completely on her own.

That woman travelled all over Spain looking for her boys.  The father came from a big extended family and every time she got too close, they were just moved on.  She spent every penny she had and I think she even sold her house to hire some private detectives, who managed to get her boys back.  I remember seeing them on the TV as they arrived at the airport.  They had little black tracksuits on and the only English words that they could remember at all were "Hello Mum".  

That sound the same as Ben Needhams mum Kerry she didn't get any help from the UK government, she had to sell bens toys to get a flight home, no PR Mitchell or Sir Philip Green private jets on stand by for Kerry
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Post  tanszi Tue 6 Aug - 21:23

kathybelle wrote:
tanszi wrote:comperedna, I can agree with almost all of what you said.  what im not disagreeing with but find so hard it that she must have her doubts, anybody would, in those quiet moments when you think things don't add up and you don't want them to not add up.  what do you do, you grin and bear it and carry on, put on a brave face, but your thoughts are your own.  I think she came out against the PJ withj the "planted" idea because she was seeming not to support K and G when she said she wanted to hit them for leaving the grandchildren just m.o.

Hi Tanzi

Regarding Susan Healey wanting to hit her daughter and son-in-law, for leaving her grandchildren alone, when they went out, I've just found this link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-562756/I-shake-daughter-Tapas-7-leaving-Madeleine-says-Kate-McCanns-mother.html

Well done (not) to the police, for using public funds, to drive the Healy's from their Formby home, to Manchester Airport, so they could fly out to be with their daughter and son-in-law. Oh I forgot, the police were probably ordered to run the Healy's to Manchester Airport, by the then Chief Constable of Liverpool, Bernard Hogan-Howe, who was and probably still is, a friend of the Healy's. In fact Hogan-Howe is so good a friend, that he went to the Healy's home, to help light those dangerous Chinese Lanterns, that the Healys, along with their friends, were sending into the sky, on one of the anniversaries of Madeleine's disappearance.

Hogan-Howe, is now the head of Scotland Yard. Am I being cynical, when I say that I have a hunch, that Bernard Hogan-Howe, could be behind Scotland Yard's public announcement, that the McCanns and their friends are not persons of interest to them?



Last edited by tanszi on Tue 6 Aug - 21:25; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : reply. oh so thats the connections. No i do not think you are being cynical, the Fundraiser in Chief, BHH is a personal friend of the family and please dont tell me he is not biased. he should have recused himself. its a Bl****& disgrace.)
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Post  James Tue 6 Aug - 23:40


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-562756/I-shake-daughter-Tapas-7-leaving-Madeleine-says-Kate-McCanns-mother.html

This interview with Susan Healy querying Kate leaving the children alone is interesting - had not seen it before.

She does not ask why her daughter (a) did not use the evening creche which was included in the holiday price or (b) use the evening paying babysitting service provided by the creche nannies.

Surely she asked Kate what other options she had.

Kate did not mention the paying babysitting service in her 'truthful' book though she did rule out the free evening creche as her children were already asleep by the time the creche opened.
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