Katherine Gasper (David Payne)

Katherine Gasper is a GP who with her husband Savio,also a GP, had previously holidayed with the mccann family and some of their friends including Mr David Payne.
Katherine Gasper recalls an incident which occurred when they where all on holiday in Majorca around September 2005.On the 16th of May 2007 She gave  a statement to Leicestershire Police  in which She expressed her concern over sexually suggestive gestures made by David Payne during that holiday in Majorca. These alleged gestures She considered to be consistent with acts of paedophilia.

Part of Her witness statement as follows.........

"We spent a week on holidays, however, the MCCANN family and the PAYNE family stayed for two weeks. I think that Tara and Stuart, and their two children, also stayed for just one week.

Two or three days had gone by, all of us staying in Majorca where, in general terms, we had fun  with our children. Possibly around the fourth or fifth day abroad, I remember an incident that stayed recorded in my head. I say this in this way, because I have thought many times about the incident that I am about to describe.

One night, on holidays, the adults, that is, the couples that I mentioned, were on a patio outside of the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.

I was seated between Dave and Gerry who I believe were both speaking about Madeleine. I don't remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like "she", referring to Madeleine, "would do this".

When he mentioned "this", Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it inside and outside his mouth, while with the other hand he made a circle around his nipple, in a circulatory movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner and carried an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to see their reactions. I looked around  as if saying "did anyone else hear this, or was it just me". There was a nervous silence registered in all the conversations and afterwards, everyone began talking again.

I never spoke to anyone about this, but I always felt that it was very strange and it wasn’t something that someone should do or say.

Besides this incident, I remember that Dave did the same thing once again. When I refer to this, I want to clarify that it was during a conversation in which he was talking about an imaginary situation, though I could not say exactly what about. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, Lily, though I'm not certain. He put one of his fingers in his mouth and slide it in and out, while the other hand drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual manner. I believe that he was referring to the way that Lily, would behave or do it.

I believe that he did this later on, during the holidays, but I cannot be sure. The only time, besides this one, that I was with Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met up with Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona at a restaurant in Leicester.

I am absolutely certain that he said what he said and that he did the gestures that I referred, but that could have occurred in the restaurant in Leicester, though  I believe that it was later on, in Majorca. When I heard Dave doing and making this a second time, I took it more seriously.

I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a manner different from me or from the others. I imagined that maybe he had visited Internet sites related to small children. In short, I thought that he was interested in child pornography on the internet."

Katherine Gasper as a GP of some professional standing would perhaps qualify as a 'reliable' witness under usual circumstances.

well I think that there is more than one person implicated in this witness statement.  David Payne is allegedly asking question of no other than G McC about his daughter.  Why would this be?  no I don't need an answer, the police need to ask questions of GMcC and DP. jmo. I also think that the focus should not be on DP alone, there were many adults in that group, and that any questioning should remain part of the investigation which is not publicised.

So what is holding you back PT ?
Ask them the questions

duncanmac wrote:So what is holding you back PT ?
Ask them the questions

I agree.It is time to turn the screws again and revisit the 'timelines' and a reconstruction of the nights events,starting at the time of Paynes visit to apartment 5A earlier that evening.

The obvious way forward would be for SY to re interview those involved thus avoiding translation problems,lets hope Andy's theatrical stroll around Downtown Faro is a prelude to that.

does anyone know if the dogs went in all appartments and not just 5a ?

Would an intelligent and highly paid professional who valued his career and lifestyle be so stupid as to say things and draw gestures with his fingers which are suggestive of pornography involving children, when there is another professional doctor sitting in between him and Gerry? When this person being in the middle, could hear everything he said? They must have been talking across Doctor Gasper for she was centred between them and we all must know what its like to be sat in between a couple who talk across you. You can hear everything and its rather rude of the people either side of you to talk over you. I usually ask if they want to swap seats with me in fact.

So, would he be so stupid? Not sure what to think myself but he could not be sure of the company he kept that night, he could not be confident they would share his 'joke'.

It is clearly something that has stayed in the mind of Doctor Gasper but she was never certain what it was all about, could not put hand on heart and say it was suspicious AT THAT TIME and tried to dismiss it from her mind, until the night of 3rd May.

What must her life be like now, having made this Statement? Will this be something she will come to regret?

If Payne is ever proved innocent he may come gunning for her. She was brave, but was she right?

Lioned wrote:

duncanmac wrote:So what is holding you back PT ?
Ask them the questions

I agree.It is time to turn the screws again and revisit the 'timelines' and a reconstruction of the nights events,starting at the time of Paynes visit to apartment 5A earlier that evening.

The obvious way forward would be for SY to re interview those involved thus avoiding translation problems,lets hope Andy's theatrical stroll around Downtown Faro is a prelude to that.

i think it about time everyone that had contact to madeleine on the 3rd of may be brought in and questioned by sy on behalf of portugal - infact they need to be asked everything from the min they landed in portugal to the day they left all the holiday - who went in 5a and why - because way i am seeing it nobody want to be the last to see madeleine

LJC wrote:Would an intelligent and highly paid professional who valued his career and lifestyle be so stupid as to say things and draw gestures with his fingers which are suggestive of pornography involving children,  when there is another professional doctor sitting in between him and Gerry? When this person being in the middle, could hear everything he said?  They must have been talking across Doctor Gasper for she was centred between them and we all must know what its like to be sat in between a couple who talk across you.  You can hear everything and its rather rude of the people either side of you to talk over you.  I usually ask if they want to swap seats with me in fact.

So, would he be so stupid?  Not sure what to think myself but he could not be sure of the company he kept that night, he could not be confident they would share his 'joke'.

It is clearly something that has stayed in the mind of Doctor Gasper but she was never certain what it was all about, could not put hand on heart and say it was suspicious AT THAT TIME and tried to dismiss it from her mind, until the night of 3rd May.

What must her life be like now, having made this Statement? Will this be something she will come to regret?

If Payne is ever proved innocent he may come gunning for her.  She was brave, but was she right?

I think it IS possible for a paedophile to make a double meaning joke that he believes he can get away with, thinking his friends won't be offended, or see the significance of such.

Jimmy Savile did inappropriate things to a young relative, in full view of others, and I'm sure he didn't expect anyone to notice because he was an expert at what he did.  He probably took bigger and bigger risks.

It is entirely possible that P knew the joke was iffy, but figured it would slide under the radar... perhaps like other risque jokes he'd made in the past?   Upping his game so to speak.  It could well be a sign of someone whose been getting away with a great deal, and is getting more and more relaxed, especially being on holiday with his tipsy, hedonistic friends.... just saying.

And lets not forget Yvonne Martin.....

chrissie wrote:And lets not forget Yvonne Martin.....

Indeed!

pennylane wrote:

LJC wrote:Would an intelligent and highly paid professional who valued his career and lifestyle be so stupid as to say things and draw gestures with his fingers which are suggestive of pornography involving children,  when there is another professional doctor sitting in between him and Gerry? When this person being in the middle, could hear everything he said?  They must have been talking across Doctor Gasper for she was centred between them and we all must know what its like to be sat in between a couple who talk across you.  You can hear everything and its rather rude of the people either side of you to talk over you.  I usually ask if they want to swap seats with me in fact.

So, would he be so stupid?  Not sure what to think myself but he could not be sure of the company he kept that night, he could not be confident they would share his 'joke'.

It is clearly something that has stayed in the mind of Doctor Gasper but she was never certain what it was all about, could not put hand on heart and say it was suspicious AT THAT TIME and tried to dismiss it from her mind, until the night of 3rd May.

What must her life be like now, having made this Statement? Will this be something she will come to regret?

If Payne is ever proved innocent he may come gunning for her.  She was brave, but was she right?

I think it IS possible for a paedophile to make a double meaning joke that he believes he can get away with, thinking his friends won't be offended, or see the significance of such.

Jimmy Savile did inappropriate things to a young relative, in full view of others, and I'm sure he didn't expect anyone to notice because he was an expert at what he did.  He probably took bigger and bigger risks.

It is entirely possible that P knew the joke was iffy, but figured it would slide under the radar... perhaps like other risque jokes he'd made in the past?   Upping his game so to speak.  It could well be a sign of someone whose been getting away with a great deal, and is getting more and more relaxed, especially being on holiday with his tipsy,  hedonistic friends.... just saying.

I see where you are coming from with this opinion, however, just to add and not saying I am right or wrong here, but Saville was a world famous figure who used his extreme power to take advantage of young girls and, of course, the charities who may have suspected something wrong with him, were afraid of losing their valuable income that he generated. So, Saville was very, very powerful indeed and that enabled him to say what he liked in front of other people and these others felt they had no alternative but to put up with him, for fear of not being believed if they tried to speak out. Saville was, we now know, pure evil, and those who realised he was pure evil, were very afraid of him and afraid of the consequences (losing their job for example) if they dared to speak out.

Payne, on the other hand, is a successful doctor who was on holiday with other successful doctors, so all peers together. No one amongst them more powerful than the other.

Therefore, any risks that Payne took were greater for surely he could not be sure that his friends of equal standing on holiday with him would find his gesture funny and, of course, at this point in time, he is not proven to be anything other than a successful doctor with a weird sense of humour.

LJC wrote:

pennylane wrote:

LJC wrote:Would an intelligent and highly paid professional who valued his career and lifestyle be so stupid as to say things and draw gestures with his fingers which are suggestive of pornography involving children,  when there is another professional doctor sitting in between him and Gerry? When this person being in the middle, could hear everything he said?  They must have been talking across Doctor Gasper for she was centred between them and we all must know what its like to be sat in between a couple who talk across you.  You can hear everything and its rather rude of the people either side of you to talk over you.  I usually ask if they want to swap seats with me in fact.

So, would he be so stupid?  Not sure what to think myself but he could not be sure of the company he kept that night, he could not be confident they would share his 'joke'.

It is clearly something that has stayed in the mind of Doctor Gasper but she was never certain what it was all about, could not put hand on heart and say it was suspicious AT THAT TIME and tried to dismiss it from her mind, until the night of 3rd May.

What must her life be like now, having made this Statement? Will this be something she will come to regret?

If Payne is ever proved innocent he may come gunning for her.  She was brave, but was she right?

I think it IS possible for a paedophile to make a double meaning joke that he believes he can get away with, thinking his friends won't be offended, or see the significance of such.

Jimmy Savile did inappropriate things to a young relative, in full view of others, and I'm sure he didn't expect anyone to notice because he was an expert at what he did.  He probably took bigger and bigger risks.

It is entirely possible that P knew the joke was iffy, but figured it would slide under the radar... perhaps like other risque jokes he'd made in the past?   Upping his game so to speak.  It could well be a sign of someone whose been getting away with a great deal, and is getting more and more relaxed, especially being on holiday with his tipsy,  hedonistic friends.... just saying.

I see where you are coming from with this opinion, however, just to add and not saying I am right or wrong here, but Saville was a world famous figure who used his extreme power to take advantage of young girls and, of course, the charities who may have suspected something wrong with him, were afraid of losing their valuable income that he generated.  So, Saville was very, very powerful indeed and that enabled him to say what he liked in front of other people and these others felt they had no alternative but to put up with him, for fear of not being believed if they tried to speak out.  Saville was, we now know, pure evil, and those who realised he was pure evil, were very afraid of him and afraid of the consequences (losing their job for example) if they dared to speak out.  

Payne, on the other hand, is a successful doctor who was on holiday with other successful doctors, so all peers together.  No one amongst them more powerful than the other.  

Therefore, any risks that Payne took were greater for surely he could not be sure that his friends of equal standing on holiday with him would find his gesture funny and, of course, at this point in time, he is not proven to be anything other than a successful doctor with a weird sense of humour.

As you say, Savile was an evil, prolific offender, and his risks were immense because he knew he could get away with it for all the reasons you have outlined, and more.  However, they all start somewhere, and who knows what his early manifestations were.

I personally do not believe K Gaspar was wrong in her interpretation, especially since she noticed an uncomfortable silence fell over the group at the time; and then there's also Yvonne Martin's recollection.

pennylane wrote:

LJC wrote:Would an intelligent and highly paid professional who valued his career and lifestyle be so stupid as to say things and draw gestures with his fingers which are suggestive of pornography involving children,  when there is another professional doctor sitting in between him and Gerry? When this person being in the middle, could hear everything he said?  They must have been talking across Doctor Gasper for she was centred between them and we all must know what its like to be sat in between a couple who talk across you.  You can hear everything and its rather rude of the people either side of you to talk over you.  I usually ask if they want to swap seats with me in fact.

So, would he be so stupid?  Not sure what to think myself but he could not be sure of the company he kept that night, he could not be confident they would share his 'joke'.

It is clearly something that has stayed in the mind of Doctor Gasper but she was never certain what it was all about, could not put hand on heart and say it was suspicious AT THAT TIME and tried to dismiss it from her mind, until the night of 3rd May.

What must her life be like now, having made this Statement? Will this be something she will come to regret?

If Payne is ever proved innocent he may come gunning for her.  She was brave, but was she right?

I think it IS possible for a paedophile to make a double meaning joke that he believes he can get away with, thinking his friends won't be offended, or see the significance of such.

Jimmy Savile did inappropriate things to a young relative, in full view of others, and I'm sure he didn't expect anyone to notice because he was an expert at what he did.  He probably took bigger and bigger risks.

It is entirely possible that P knew the joke was iffy, but figured it would slide under the radar... perhaps like other risque jokes he'd made in the past?   Upping his game so to speak.  It could well be a sign of someone whose been getting away with a great deal, and is getting more and more relaxed, especially being on holiday with his tipsy,  hedonistic friends.... just saying.

Spot on as usual.

Lioned wrote:

pennylane wrote:

LJC wrote:Would an intelligent and highly paid professional who valued his career and lifestyle be so stupid as to say things and draw gestures with his fingers which are suggestive of pornography involving children,  when there is another professional doctor sitting in between him and Gerry? When this person being in the middle, could hear everything he said?  They must have been talking across Doctor Gasper for she was centred between them and we all must know what its like to be sat in between a couple who talk across you.  You can hear everything and its rather rude of the people either side of you to talk over you.  I usually ask if they want to swap seats with me in fact.

So, would he be so stupid?  Not sure what to think myself but he could not be sure of the company he kept that night, he could not be confident they would share his 'joke'.

It is clearly something that has stayed in the mind of Doctor Gasper but she was never certain what it was all about, could not put hand on heart and say it was suspicious AT THAT TIME and tried to dismiss it from her mind, until the night of 3rd May.

What must her life be like now, having made this Statement? Will this be something she will come to regret?

If Payne is ever proved innocent he may come gunning for her.  She was brave, but was she right?

I think it IS possible for a paedophile to make a double meaning joke that he believes he can get away with, thinking his friends won't be offended, or see the significance of such.

Jimmy Savile did inappropriate things to a young relative, in full view of others, and I'm sure he didn't expect anyone to notice because he was an expert at what he did.  He probably took bigger and bigger risks.

It is entirely possible that P knew the joke was iffy, but figured it would slide under the radar... perhaps like other risque jokes he'd made in the past?   Upping his game so to speak.  It could well be a sign of someone whose been getting away with a great deal, and is getting more and more relaxed, especially being on holiday with his tipsy,  hedonistic friends.... just saying.

Spot on as usual.

Thank you, Lioned!  I think it a big mistake to believe P couldn't possibly be that openly perverse or stupid because he's a doctor!

duncanmac wrote:So what is holding you back PT ?
Ask them the questions

Socrates and Broon aren't in charge anymore. The present incumbents owe the McCanns nothing.

LJC wrote:Would an intelligent and highly paid professional who valued his career and lifestyle be so stupid as to say things and draw gestures with his fingers which are suggestive of pornography involving children, when there is another professional doctor sitting in between him and Gerry? When this person being in the middle, could hear everything he said? They must have been talking across Doctor Gasper for she was centred between them and we all must know what its like to be sat in between a couple who talk across you. You can hear everything and its rather rude of the people either side of you to talk over you. I usually ask if they want to swap seats with me in fact.

So, would he be so stupid? Not sure what to think myself but he could not be sure of the company he kept that night, he could not be confident they would share his 'joke'.

It is clearly something that has stayed in the mind of Doctor Gasper but she was never certain what it was all about, could not put hand on heart and say it was suspicious AT THAT TIME and tried to dismiss it from her mind, until the night of 3rd May.

What must her life be like now, having made this Statement? Will this be something she will come to regret?

If Payne is ever proved innocent he may come gunning for her. She was brave, but was she right?

Pedophiles are pedophiles


Doctor caught with child porn can keep his job

Prince Charles taking to Dr Dana Faratian at the Western General Hospital, Edinburgh. Picture: TSPL
by LYNDSAY BUCKLAND
Published on the
11 January
2014
00:00
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A LEADING cancer researcher who looked at images of child sex abuse on a Romanian website will not be permanently removed from the medical register.

Dr Dana Faratian was sacked from his prestigious research post at the University of Edinburgh after being arrested by police in December 2011.

Yesterday, the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service (MPTS) decided not to strike him off the medical register, but gave him a 12-month suspension after finding his fitness to practise had been impaired because of his conviction.

Acting on intelligence that Faratian had been accessing a website notorious for posting illegal material, officers raided his flat in Edinburgh’s Newington and seized his laptop.

Forensic analysis of Faratian’s computer found 151 pictures of girls between the ages of six and 14, ranging from images classed as level one to the most serious, level five.

The father of two was ordered to complete a community payback order, with supervision for three years, and was placed on the sex offenders’ register after pleading guilty to a single charge of possessing indecent images of children at Edinburgh Sheriff Court in August 2012.

He referred himself to the General Medical Council (GMC) after he was arrested and he has been temporarily suspended from its register since July 2012.

Faratian told the hearing in Manchester that he had watched around 2,000 hours of porn over the past 20 years before he viewed the images of children which led to his arrest. He said his porn habit spiralled out of control after his grandmother and father died and his wife and children moved to Leeds at the start of 2011.

He admitted accessing a Romanian-based website, notorious for displaying graphic child abuse images, on five occasions between October and December 2011.

“I am not mitigating anything I have done, but in the run-up to viewing the abusive images of children, that was during a time where a lot of things had happened and I felt pretty appalling,” Faratian told the hearing.

He described a “morbid self-loathing” that led him to go back to the site and referred to the most extreme images as “frankly disgusting” and “quite simply horrible”.

The medic broke down as he recalled the “life-shattering” effect his actions had on his family, not least his six-year-old daughter and two-year-old son who he has not seen in more than two years.

Now with a new partner, Faratian claimed he had not accessed any pornography since his ­arrest and vowed to never look at “dirty pictures” again.

The MPTS panel, chaired by Richard Davies, found his fitness to practise was impaired because of his conviction but decided not to strike him off.

Mr Davies said the panel considered his offence to have been “deplorable and repugnant” and would normally result in erasure from the medical register.

He said: “However, the panel considered your case to be quite exceptional. Your actions resulted in what was little short of a personal catastrophe for you.

“You decided that to demonstrate your shame about your actions, you would make a public and candid explanation.

“You have not hidden from the consequences.”

I think that part of the grooming process for pedophiles is that they not only groom the children but the parents. I could see making jokes to see what he could get away with.

I don't see how they failed to follow up on this if Payne actually was registered anywhere as an offender.

The questions LP asked the T9 were very sketchy and when answers were dodgy or incomplete they helped the interviewees by feeding them statements or allowing them to say things like Payne did, when asked if he had more info that could expose the material truth of this he said this was not the forum for it and the LP investigator simply said OK.

What other info did he have? That he himself was a suspect, the Gaspar statements but he didn't want to get into THAT because it wasn't the forum - to clear himself of that accusation?

Rogatory interviews aren't much use if you have to submit not only the questions but the questions that would follow on from the answers, in ahead of time. The PJ couldn't know where the questions would lead. Payne drops a bomb in the interview and LP just says OK and goes on with their day closing the interview -

I do not think if Payne was involved that McCanns would cover for him unless there was something much more sinister involving themselves as well. The whole issue of how long Payne was there and why is up in the air with several different versions of it from Kate, Payne and Fiona and that surely bears looking into.

I just find it staggering that no one has ever been sued over the various theories surrounding Payne ...this speaks volumes to me.

Quote / " I do not think if Payne was involved that McCanns would cover for him unless there was something much more sinister involving themselves as well" / end quote

All for one and one for all I think!!!! Always thought so

Roasted Arizona wrote:I just find it staggering that no one has ever been sued over the various theories surrounding Payne ...this speaks volumes to me.

I would suspect that Payne has been heavily briefed by legal eagles,
not to open this can of worms, because if he was to pursue this in
court it would stick like mud whatever the outcome, and take down
some others, and introduce a powerful and dynamic lead in the
investigation. His silence I believe confirms this.

marxman wrote:

Roasted Arizona wrote:I just find it staggering that no one has ever been sued over the various theories surrounding Payne ...this speaks volumes to me.

I would suspect that Payne has been heavily briefed by legal eagles,
not to open this can of worms, because if he was to pursue this in
court it would stick like mud whatever the outcome, and take down
some others, and introduce a powerful and dynamic lead in the
investigation. His silence I believe confirms this.

I think you're right, Marxman!

Hi there, do you think its most likely ,if parents were present when afriend talked about what they might like to do ,or even make any action that seemed a NO NO to a great majority of parents . Would most just go quiet ,wouldn't at least one ,say THAT IS VERY UNAPPROPIATE TALK GOING ON HERE ? or ARE WE LOOKING AT SOME REGULAR STUFF THAT HAD BEEN ACCEPTED ,BY SOME ? JUST CANT IMAGINE THINKING ,THAT IT DIDNT SEEM RIGHT AND YET NOT SPEAKING UP .. I DONT MEAM MRS GASPER BY THE WAY ,SHE WAS SHOCKED AND SCARED BY IT , I MEAN THE REST WHO WERE THERE. joyce1938

Speaking generally, nobody would make such a remark without being sure that the other person was like-minded.

If he's prone to making various lewd/inappropriate jokes, that his mates usually find funny and laugh uproariously at, they may have been momentarily shocked at this one, but then shrugged it off as bad taste humour.... what with them all being tipsy and in holiday mode.  K Gaspar was disgusted however, and had deeper thoughts of her own regarding DP's agenda.

Wasnt payne supposedly off done this twice which made mrs gasper worried....

Once could be 'misheard' but twice......i dont think so....

You give people the benefit off the doubt but not the second time....