Re: The Blairs Christmas Card

**Panda** Mon 8 Dec - 17:45

Iris wrote:What a load of absolute crap. Look at any painting by Hogarth or read any novel by Dickens. Or this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/0/20097046

Enough Iris, if you can't be polite don't post at all , your manners are appalling and it is time I did something about it.

Guest Mon 8 Dec - 18:08

Panda wrote:
Iris wrote:What a load of absolute crap. Look at any painting by Hogarth or read any novel by Dickens. Or this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/0/20097046

Enough Iris, if you can't be polite don't post at all , your manners are appalling and it is time I did something about it.

It's nowhere near enough. You think yourself lucky that I have barely started. I'm absolutely sick of your appalling attitude and I'm not the only one.

katertaif Mon 8 Dec - 18:11

Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Panda wrote:

Is that what happened to the Blairs Daughter katertaif?

Very Droll! I was pointing out what seems to be a general dysfunctional trend.

Today's youngsters grow up too soon Katerfait , when I was growing up we didn't have much but never felt hard done by and "grooming" was unheard of. The World was
small and all we knew about it was from Geography lessons .
I cannot see where growing up to soon comes in. Ditto the size of the planet.

The size of the planet is on T.V. now and we can see the fighting going on around the World and learn a bit about many Countries whereas when I was younger all the Geography teacher had was a map of various Countries.,"Grooming " young people was unheard of , alcoholism and drug addiction was never so rife, Mary Whitehouse would be turning in her grave at the standard of T. V. , and you can't see all this?

And Balir 's missus is responsible for all this? I'll write to the Telegraph immediately.

**Panda** Mon 8 Dec - 18:28

katertaif wrote:
Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:

Very Droll! I was pointing out what seems to be a general dysfunctional trend.

Today's youngsters grow up too soon Katerfait , when I was growing up we didn't have much but never felt hard done by and "grooming" was unheard of. The World was
small and all we knew about it was from Geography lessons .
I cannot see where growing up to soon comes in. Ditto the size of the planet.

The size of the planet is on T.V. now and we can see the fighting going on around the World and learn a bit about many Countries whereas when I was younger all the Geography teacher had was a map of various Countries.,"Grooming " young people was unheard of , alcoholism and drug addiction was never so rife, Mary Whitehouse would be turning in her grave at the standard of T. V. , and you can't see all this?

And Balir 's missus is responsible for all this? I'll write to the Telegraph immediately.

Who said anything about the Blairs being responsible? It'a combination of things katerfait , not least T.V. and Computers., much as they are a great invention there is a dark side which cannot be controlled

Guest Mon 8 Dec - 19:41

katertaif wrote:
Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:

Very Droll! I was pointing out what seems to be a general dysfunctional trend.

Today's youngsters grow up too soon Katerfait , when I was growing up we didn't have much but never felt hard done by and "grooming" was unheard of. The World was
small and all we knew about it was from Geography lessons .
I cannot see where growing up to soon comes in. Ditto the size of the planet.

The size of the planet is on T.V. now and we can see the fighting going on around the World and learn a bit about many Countries whereas when I was younger all the Geography teacher had was a map of various Countries.,"Grooming " young people was unheard of , alcoholism and drug addiction was never so rife, Mary Whitehouse would be turning in her grave at the standard of T. V. , and you can't see all this?

And Balir 's missus is responsible for all this? I'll write to the Telegraph immediately.

nah, i doubt you'll do that, in fact i find this remark facecious but then i find a lot of your posts bordering on statements of facts rather than opinions. it's a shame that some of your facts are way short of accurate but then you've shied away from qualifiying those i've chosen to challenge which surprises me given that they are minor, which tells me a lot. i don't expect you'll reply to this post which should tell everyone else a lot.

The Blairs Christmas Card - Page 3 25346

The Blairs Christmas Card - Page 3 25346

**kitti** Mon 8 Dec - 19:45

Threaten ISIS with that pic and I'm quite sure they will be heading to the hills...ASAP!

Guest Mon 8 Dec - 19:47

Iris wrote:
Panda wrote:
Iris wrote:What a load of absolute crap. Look at any painting by Hogarth or read any novel by Dickens. Or this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/0/20097046

Enough Iris, if you can't be polite don't post at all , your manners are appalling and it is time I did something about it.

It's nowhere near enough. You think yourself lucky that I have barely started. I'm absolutely sick of your appalling attitude and I'm not the only one.

might be a good time for you two to ignore each other but then who am i to talk given my track record. anyways, peace, love and dope.

The Blairs Christmas Card - Page 3 25346

**AnnaEsse** Tue 9 Dec - 10:26

Panda wrote:
Iris wrote:What a load of absolute crap. Look at any painting by Hogarth or read any novel by Dickens. Or this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/0/20097046

Enough Iris, if you can't be polite don't post at all , your manners are appalling and it is time I did something about it.

Panda, please stop telling other members what they should or should not be posting.

**AnnaEsse** Tue 9 Dec - 10:34

Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:
Panda wrote:
katertaif wrote:

My son was never picked up by the police, reeling drunk, and vomiting. Nor has he ever found it necessary to give a false address since he was under the legal drinking age at the time.

Is that what happened to the Blairs Daughter katertaif?

Very Droll! I was pointing out what seems to be a general dysfunctional trend.

Today's youngsters grow up too soon Katerfait , when I was growing up we didn't have much but never felt hard done by and "grooming" was unheard of. The World was
small and all we knew about it was from Geography lessons .
I cannot see where growing up to soon comes in. Ditto the size of the planet.

The size of the planet is on T.V. now and we can see the fighting going on around the World and learn a bit about many Countries whereas when I was younger all the Geography teacher had was a map of various Countries.,"Grooming " young people was unheard of , alcoholism and drug addiction was never so rife, Mary Whitehouse would be turning in her grave at the standard of T. V. , and you can't see all this?

Panda, "grooming" of young children has been going on for a very long time. In my opinion, it is the efforts of people on social media that have forced all the crap to be brought out from under the carpet where it has been for a very long time.

As for growing up too soon, my mother left school at age 14 and was married at age 16 as were many people that I knew growing up. Also, technology may have speeded up how quickly the news reaches us, but ask the average person on the streets of the UK to point out the countries in the Middle East, for instance, and I'd bet that not many of them could do it accurately.

ETA: I caught part of a TV programme called "Tipping Point" this evening. One contestant asked what was the capital of Ecuador, decided that since Ecuador was part of Spain it must be Barcelona. I kid you not!

katertaif Wed 10 Dec - 5:36

You bring out an important point AnnaEsse. These things as abhorrent as they are to us have been going on for a long time. "social media" in all it's forms has brought it into the light of day. You also bring in education which has never been so good, yet still people fail to profit by this. Probably in the same sort of numbers as always did. Never mind "tipping point" AnnaEsse try catching "are you smarter than a 10 year old" I realise they must have picked both children and contestants very carefully, the latter for stupidity, but even so. To watch a supposed supply teacher struggling and trying to make a joke out of not knowing what half of a half is, while all the ten year olds were on it in a flash.

**AnnaEsse** Wed 10 Dec - 10:58

katertaif wrote:You bring out an important point AnnaEsse. These things as abhorrent as they are to us have been going on for a long time. "social media" in all it's forms has brought it into the light of day. You also bring in education which has never been so good, yet still people fail to profit by this. Probably in the same sort of numbers as always did. Never mind "tipping point" AnnaEsse try catching "are you smarter than a 10 year old" I realise they must have picked both children and contestants very carefully, the latter for stupidity, but even so. To watch a supposed supply teacher struggling and trying to make a joke out of not knowing what half of a half is, while all the ten year olds were on it in a flash.

I heard on Radio 4 news this morning that so many secondary schools are just not good enough. On Facebook, I can see that this is not new because I don't understand how so many people can spend a minimum of 11 years in education in the UK and come out semi-literate. There was another contestant on Tipping Point last night who was asked who was the Deputy Prime Minister in 1998. She said Nick Clegg!

katertaif Wed 10 Dec - 11:22

AnnaEsse wrote:
katertaif wrote:You bring out an important point AnnaEsse. These things as abhorrent as they are to us have been going on for a long time. "social media" in all it's forms has brought it into the light of day. You also bring in education which has never been so good, yet still people fail to profit by this. Probably in the same sort of numbers as always did. Never mind "tipping point" AnnaEsse try catching "are you smarter than a 10 year old" I realise they must have picked both children and contestants very carefully, the latter for stupidity, but even so. To watch a supposed supply teacher struggling and trying to make a joke out of not knowing what half of a half is, while all the ten year olds were on it in a flash.

I heard on Radio 4 news this morning that so many secondary schools are just not good enough. On Facebook, I can see that this is not new because I don't understand how so many people can spend a minimum of 11 years in education in the UK and come out semi-literate. There was another contestant on Tipping Point last night who was asked who was the Deputy Prime Minister in 1998. She said Nick Clegg!

Unfortunately AnnaEsse this has been going on for years with gradually more serious results. Yesterdays news announced that a company is having to bring in Polish and Czech Bricklayers, because there just are not any British ones available. Many years ago now, I came back from S. Africa, and I got a job with then British Steel. Conditional upon a medical of course. The nurse gave me a book (Wind in the Willows Kenneth Grahame) And indicated that I should start reading aloud. This I did for a few seconds then she stopped me and as she took the book away I remarked that this was the strangest eye test I'd ever had. She told me that wasn't an eye test, it was a literacy test. I said quite sharply "of course I can read" She then dropped the bombshell of telling me that I would be surprised at those who could not. Since then, I have gone into training myself. I am no longer surprised. If I had to categorise it, I would say the British are about the least to subsidise training, whereas other countries do, which explains why I have spent much of my time abroad. I found the Chinese more industrious than others and the Nigerians very keen to learn. Not at all averse to giving up their evenings to come over, and have a list of questions and scenarios prepared. Quite pleasant interludes with a glass or two. It also relieved my own boredom,, so everyone was happy, and I think profited by it.

**AnnaEsse** Wed 10 Dec - 12:13

katertaif wrote:
AnnaEsse wrote:
katertaif wrote:You bring out an important point AnnaEsse. These things as abhorrent as they are to us have been going on for a long time. "social media" in all it's forms has brought it into the light of day. You also bring in education which has never been so good, yet still people fail to profit by this. Probably in the same sort of numbers as always did. Never mind "tipping point" AnnaEsse try catching "are you smarter than a 10 year old" I realise they must have picked both children and contestants very carefully, the latter for stupidity, but even so. To watch a supposed supply teacher struggling and trying to make a joke out of not knowing what half of a half is, while all the ten year olds were on it in a flash.

I heard on Radio 4 news this morning that so many secondary schools are just not good enough. On Facebook, I can see that this is not new because I don't understand how so many people can spend a minimum of 11 years in education in the UK and come out semi-literate. There was another contestant on Tipping Point last night who was asked who was the Deputy Prime Minister in 1998. She said Nick Clegg!

Unfortunately AnnaEsse this has been going on for years with gradually more serious results. Yesterdays news announced that a company is having to bring in Polish and Czech Bricklayers, because there just are not any British ones available. Many years ago now, I came back from S. Africa, and I got a job with then British Steel. Conditional upon a medical of course. The nurse gave me a book (Wind in the Willows Kenneth Grahame) And indicated that I should start reading aloud. This I did for a few seconds then she stopped me and as she took the book away I remarked that this was the strangest eye test I'd ever had. She told me that wasn't an eye test, it was a literacy test. I said quite sharply "of course I can read" She then dropped the bombshell of telling me that I would be surprised at those who could not. Since then, I have gone into training myself. I am no longer surprised. If I had to categorise it, I would say the British are about the least to subsidise training, whereas other countries do, which explains why I have spent much of my time abroad. I found the Chinese more industrious than others and the Nigerians very keen to learn. Not at all averse to giving up their evenings to come over, and have a list of questions and scenarios prepared. Quite pleasant interludes with a glass or two. It also relieved my own boredom,, so everyone was happy, and I think profited by it.

A couple of years ago, when I was still doing supply teaching work, I was sent to a school in Nuneaton, where on day 1, I was handed a stack of year 8 homework to assess. As I worked my way through the stack, I was becoming more and more amazed at the appalling handwriting and the atrocious spelling and grammar. Then I came across one piece of work where the handwriting was beautiful and the spelling and grammar were close to perfect. As I was handing the work back to the class, I just had to go and have a word with the girl whose work had impressed me so much. It turned out that the young lady in question was Belgian and had been in England only a few months. She put the rest of that class to shame.

katertaif Wed 10 Dec - 15:33

I can't say I'm surprised, I only wish I was. As an ex supply teacher you will know better than anyone that the constant tinkering with the education system has: far from making things better, made things a damned sight worse. Successive governments have done our young a great disservice I believe. Aided however unwittingly by the unions. They are more and more unable to go in the workplace. It isn't any good blaming the foreigners, whether they are from EU member states or not. They are supplying a need which we can no longer manage.

Then we have the lain fact that foreigners are able to speak English and so can come and get a job here. The English traditionally speak "English"

I'm not really interested in whether they can send money home for possibly non existent children, or be able to build a decent house, with a good car courtesy of Britain. The real point is there would be n need to have them in the first place,, if our own young people leaving school were at one end of the scale able to do it, and at the other end were less interested in going on to "uni" to get a meaningless degree.

**Angelina** Wed 10 Dec - 15:58

katertaif wrote:I can't say I'm surprised, I only wish I was. As an ex supply teacher you will know better than anyone that the constant tinkering with the education system has: far from making things better, made things a damned sight worse. Successive governments have done our young a great disservice I believe. Aided however unwittingly by the unions. They are more and more unable to go in the workplace. It isn't any good blaming the foreigners, whether they are from EU member states or not. They are supplying a need which we can no longer manage.

Then we have the lain fact that foreigners are able to speak English and so can come and get a job here. The English traditionally speak "English"

I'm not really interested in whether they can send money home for possibly non existent children, or be able to build a decent house, with a good car courtesy of Britain. The real point is there would be n need to have them in the first place,, if our own young people leaving school were at one end of the scale able to do it, and at the other end were less interested in going on to "uni" to get a meaningless degree.

I think there are a lot of different reasons in this country for education/employment going so badly wrong.

It goes back years starting with schools no longer teaching the maths tables (an invaluable tool in every day life) and dropping the use of spelling tests in a lot of schools. Obviously the same can't be said of all schools but looking at my own sons' educations I know that this has happened. All my sons are of reasonable intelligence and have good jobs but 2 of them at least don't know their tables and one of them is atrocious at spelling. How can you write a decent letter if you can't spell.

Then there is the fact that a lot of parents either don't have time, or just can't be bothered, to teach young children anything before they start school. I know from someone who works in a primary school that quite a lot of children can't even count to 5 or identify any letters of the alphabet. In fact, some are still in nappies....beyond belief.

Then there is blame to be laid at the door of employers....a lot of whom insist on applicants having a degree to fill even the most simplest of vacancies which in no way need a degree to do the job properly and efficiently. Plus the fact that until 5 years or so ago there were hardly any apprenticeships to be had and those that did exist just used the trainees for sweeping up and making tea (heard that from several young people at the time).

I was horrified recently to find that you need a degree to become a nurse...no wonder we are in short supply. Decent basic education and training on the wards under the eye of matron is what we need imo. No degree is going to show anyone how to give a bed bath or change a bedpan...yet alone a little bit of human kindness!

All imo, of course, and trying not to generalise.

katertaif Wed 10 Dec - 16:39

A degree to be a Nurse??? I have had the misfortune to have been in and out of my local hospital five times in the last few months. Nothing terminal just a kidney stone which they are unable to fragment to allow the pieces to flush out by themselves.

From the patients point of view there is no shortage of nurses. There is a chronic shortage working directly for the NHS that is true. They are all working for one agency or another. I could hear them talking about it, especially at night when they thought we were all asleep. How such a system grew to these proportions is a mystery to me. As I say the wards were always fully staffed but not by NHS nurses. A win win situation for the nurse, who can command a greater salary. For the agency who add their percentage o the fee. The eventual loser being the patient when once more transformed into a taxpayer. Then they complain about the NHS losing money.

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