WHOM WILL WIN 2015 ELECTION?

katertaif wrote:

Badboy wrote:SURPRISED AT OUTCOME WITH CONSERVATES BEING BIGGEST PARTY.

The biggest question Badboy is how the pollsters got it so wrong, and over such a long period. A complete waste of taxpayers money, and we urgently need to know what went wrong and why.

Hello katertaif I never actually believed those polls as they never seemed to move an inch, It really makes me wonder about them and what was going on.

I always thought that the Conservatives would get in although in the last few days before the election I was having a bit of a wobble in my faith.

The Liberals I always felt would be swept of the board and that they would only win a handful of seats. Which I felt was justly deserved.

I don't know why people place such faith in polls. People can/do lie on them or they may be polled one day and the next day hear something they don't like and change their mind. The horrible man Brown was always saying never put too much faith in the polls and, for once, he was right.

IT IS BEING SAID THAT THE PROBLEM WITH ONLINE SURVEYS/POLLS IS THAT THERE PROBABLY CAN'T GET A REPRESTATIVE SAMPLE UNLIKE TELEPHONE POLLING WHERE THEYE TRY TO GET AN IMPARTIAL SAMPLE OF 1,000+.
ANOTHER PROBLEM IS PEOPLE MAY DECEIDE TO STICK WHAT THEY KNOW WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE.

Angelina wrote:I don't know why people place such faith in polls.    People can/do lie on them or they may be polled one day and the next day hear something they don't like and change their mind.  The horrible man Brown was always saying never put too much faith in the polls and, for once, he was right.

Good evening Angelina.

You are completely correct of course. people can and do lie to pollsters and people may tell the truth at the time, and then change their minds. What really rankles is the amount of money the tax payer has one way or another forked out to be given duff information. I remember as a child, my parents promised to vote for them all, just to get rid of them, whether they came to the door, or nobbled them in the street. I wonder how much of that still goes on today?

fuzeta wrote:

katertaif wrote:

Badboy wrote:SURPRISED AT OUTCOME WITH CONSERVATES BEING BIGGEST PARTY.

The biggest question Badboy is how the pollsters got it so wrong, and over such a long period. A complete waste of taxpayers money, and we urgently need to know what went wrong and why.

Hello katertaif I never actually believed those polls as they never seemed to move an inch, It really makes me wonder about them and what was going on.  

I always thought that the Conservatives would get in although in the last few days before the election I was having a bit of a wobble in my faith.  

The Liberals I always felt would be swept of the board and that they would only win a handful of seats.  Which I felt was justly deserved.

Good evening fuzeta. yes the Lib. Dems. got a hammering just as they did in the European elections. Richly deserved I feel for a number of reasons. One being the way they bit the hand of those that had fed them for the last 5 years, and the basically contradictory statements that while they were strong enough to push through any good that came out of that 5 year coalition, and all thanks to the Lib. Dems. They were on the other hand too weak to prevent their numerically superior partners from passing any bad legislation which was all down to the tories. That and the about face over student fees, I think did for them. I am also convinced that Clegg and his cohorts were aware of the coming Tsunami. The yellow despatch box after Alexander was one of the four who signed off the budget could only have been desperation. It was certainly silly.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ETCHED IN STONE THINGS,SOME SAID THAT WAS SILLY.

Badboy wrote:WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ETCHED IN STONE THINGS,SOME SAID THAT WAS SILLY.

Good evening badboy

I'm not sure what you are referring to on this one. the fact being that it has become totally normal for British politicians to make outlandish and outrageous promises in the pious hope that it will get them votes. To that degree, they all say things that are supposedly set in stone, and then use the get out of jail free card as soon as it suits.

They permanently blame the others for any mistakes. At PMQ's they bring up things that the Government/Opposition said last week/month/year. Totally oblivious to themselves having done the same thing last week/Month/Year.

That is one major reason why no one trusts them any more, but of course it is the one reason they themselves cannot cite on the political programmes. Can you imagine an MP saying to Andrew Marr. Of course I understand the low turnout, because many of us have been helping ourselves at taxpayer and therefore voter expense. Would you trust us after that?

katertaif wrote:

malena stool wrote:Good morning katertaif,
Try as I might, I couldn't drum up the spirit to sit through the night watching and listening to the often times biased pundits talk me through who was going to take the keys to No.10... I knew that I'd be among the millions paying their rates whoever's name was on the rentbook..

One good point is the glove puppet Miliband's dream of a Labour government never came to fruition, also the SNP have all but destroyed the Scottish Labour movement. I see he has done the world a favour and stepped down from the position as leader of the Party. perhaps we'll get someone taking over who's rear end doesn't fit the hand of the TU movement.... (If I'm allowed to say that).

I would never have said this back when John Smith was the Labour leader, but had he not died Blair and his ilk could never have destroyed the true meaning of the Labour movement and created his 'New Labour'. How many millions have died and are still set to die fighting or terrorised as a result of Blair's arrogance, stupidity and duplicity?

On the plus side, perhaps even with a small majority Cameron will be able to push through policies which Clegg and his self gratifying cronies would have stifled. Hopefully though, he will abide by his promises to the electorate and give us the referendum on continued EU membership....

Good evening old son. I am still very sceptical about this apparently promised referendum. For two reasons. I believe Cameron chose his words extremely carefully. Following successful renegotiation of our relationship with the budding United States of Europe, we would be offered an in out choice. Angela Merkel standing next to Cameron appeared to pour cold water on that by saying Europe would in effect not compromise with us at all. Bearing in mind that with the East European States and the Balkan states, we are vastly outnumbered in any vote. Now if there are no "successful" renegotiations the overwhelming likelihood is that we would vote to get out. Cameron doesn't want that and I don't think we would stand for a rerun as the Irish did some time ago so I fear they would cobble up some kind of rigmarole designed to fool us into thinking we had won something when we hadn't , so it would be worth staying in. That in itself would be fraudulent.

The second reason is that in order to make a rational, informed choice we would need a period of rational informed Frank, open, and honest debate on the matter. That is something I do not believe we would get from the BBC, or indeed the Trade Unions, and at least some companies, with vested interests. For example we are told we would lose out in  trade. Why would that be? I don't want to be constantly told we would lose trade, I want it explained. While they are at it they might try to explain why it is that we have an overall trade deficit with the EU and just how that position could be worse. They might also try to explain why Billions are poured into those previously communist countries, now suffering from decayed infrastructure, and unashamedly joining the EU for what they can get out of it (and us) Apart from that I think that the results of the election yielding only 1 seat for UKIP despite some 5 million votes are the best advert for PR. yet.

 

Good evening katertaif.
I'm pretty sure you are right that the opportunity for a UK in/out referendum will fail to materialise. Our elected leaders are, after all politicians and have demonstrated their outstanding ability and aptitude for telling lies, deception and good old fashioned theft when filling out their expense claim forms and apparently continue to do so. So to merely, as you succinctly put it 'cobble up some kind of rigmarole,' would be child's play to artisans of their calibre.

There is one worrying point though, we do not have the vast industrial base here that we possessed when we entered the Common Market. Consecutive governments since Thatcher have allowed/encouraged our engineering, hosiery, footwear and steel industries to move their facilities abroad or sell them off to foreign investors.

Many large 'British' firms advertise in the labour markets of Europe rather than here in the UK. Our retiring tradesmen are not replaced by British trained workers, many apprenticeship schemes here in the UK were gradually phased out, again by consecutive governments. (They are all as bad as each other despite New Labour being funded by the unions).

We have no coal of our own, our 'limitless' supply of North sea oil and gas was given away at knock down prices, no doubt with some excellent backscratching facilities provided for our 'Honourable Members'. The same is now happening in the NHS, fewer Medical and Nursing students are being trained. Staff are now being brought in with a, 'great saving on training fees' from abroad.

Our elected leaders have made our country reliant on an external workforce for almost all facets of our nation's needs.

I agree with your veiws on PR, but had we have had PR in previous elections the LibDems would been all over us like a rash... I have enough allergies without the threat of suffrance of the Cleggs of this world.

Sorry, rant over.

A rash of Clegg's does not bear thinking about Malena  He is one of the most two faced, double dealing, so called  politician of our time. He was no good at it either. That is why his  party are obliterated.  He still hangs on to that seat of his though, for the next five years anyway. God knows why,  I would have loved to have seen him lose that.  It would have been the icing on the cake.

Some countries that have PR have many problems with it because nothing gets done.  I agree with it in theory but in practice it does not seem to work

malena stool wrote:

katertaif wrote:

malena stool wrote:Good morning katertaif,
Try as I might, I couldn't drum up the spirit to sit through the night watching and listening to the often times biased pundits talk me through who was going to take the keys to No.10... I knew that I'd be among the millions paying their rates whoever's name was on the rentbook..

One good point is the glove puppet Miliband's dream of a Labour government never came to fruition, also the SNP have all but destroyed the Scottish Labour movement. I see he has done the world a favour and stepped down from the position as leader of the Party. perhaps we'll get someone taking over who's rear end doesn't fit the hand of the TU movement.... (If I'm allowed to say that).

I would never have said this back when John Smith was the Labour leader, but had he not died Blair and his ilk could never have destroyed the true meaning of the Labour movement and created his 'New Labour'. How many millions have died and are still set to die fighting or terrorised as a result of Blair's arrogance, stupidity and duplicity?

On the plus side, perhaps even with a small majority Cameron will be able to push through policies which Clegg and his self gratifying cronies would have stifled. Hopefully though, he will abide by his promises to the electorate and give us the referendum on continued EU membership....

Good evening old son. I am still very sceptical about this apparently promised referendum. For two reasons. I believe Cameron chose his words extremely carefully. Following successful renegotiation of our relationship with the budding United States of Europe, we would be offered an in out choice. Angela Merkel standing next to Cameron appeared to pour cold water on that by saying Europe would in effect not compromise with us at all. Bearing in mind that with the East European States and the Balkan states, we are vastly outnumbered in any vote. Now if there are no "successful" renegotiations the overwhelming likelihood is that we would vote to get out. Cameron doesn't want that and I don't think we would stand for a rerun as the Irish did some time ago so I fear they would cobble up some kind of rigmarole designed to fool us into thinking we had won something when we hadn't , so it would be worth staying in. That in itself would be fraudulent.

The second reason is that in order to make a rational, informed choice we would need a period of rational informed Frank, open, and honest debate on the matter. That is something I do not believe we would get from the BBC, or indeed the Trade Unions, and at least some companies, with vested interests. For example we are told we would lose out in  trade. Why would that be? I don't want to be constantly told we would lose trade, I want it explained. While they are at it they might try to explain why it is that we have an overall trade deficit with the EU and just how that position could be worse. They might also try to explain why Billions are poured into those previously communist countries, now suffering from decayed infrastructure, and unashamedly joining the EU for what they can get out of it (and us) Apart from that I think that the results of the election yielding only 1 seat for UKIP despite some 5 million votes are the best advert for PR. yet.

 

Good evening katertaif.
I'm pretty sure you are right that the opportunity for a UK in/out referendum will fail to materialise. Our elected leaders are, after all politicians and have  demonstrated their outstanding ability and aptitude for telling lies, deception and good old fashioned theft when filling out their expense claim forms and apparently continue to do so. So to merely, as you succinctly put it 'cobble up some kind of rigmarole,' would be child's play to artisans of their calibre.

There is one worrying point though, we do not have the vast industrial base here that we possessed when we entered the Common Market. Consecutive governments since Thatcher have allowed/encouraged our engineering, hosiery, footwear and steel industries to move their facilities abroad or sell them off to foreign investors.

Many large 'British' firms advertise in the labour markets of Europe rather than here in the UK. Our retiring tradesmen are not replaced by British trained workers, many apprenticeship schemes here in the UK were gradually phased out, again by consecutive governments. (They are all as bad as each other despite New Labour being funded by the unions).

We have no coal of our own, our 'limitless' supply of North sea oil and gas was given away at knock down prices, no doubt with some excellent backscratching facilities provided for our 'Honourable Members'. The same is now happening in the NHS, fewer Medical and Nursing students are being trained. Staff are now being brought in with a, 'great saving on training fees' from abroad.

Our elected leaders have made our country reliant on an external workforce for almost all facets of our nation's needs.

I agree with your veiws on PR, but had we have had PR in previous elections the LibDems would been all over us like a rash... I have enough allergies without the threat of suffrance of the Cleggs of this world.

Sorry, rant over.

Good evening Malena stool

I take your point anent our losing much of our industrial base, and I fully agree that various governments have played a very murky hand in it. the unions, and the sheep that followed them must also take their share of the blame. Take Shipbuilding, It became impossible to have a ship completed on time on price in this country. The demurrage on such a large shopping basket per diem meant that it wasn't many days delay before the price had doubled, or even trebled so the ship owners went elsewhere. Orders we will never get back. So our mass shipbuilding industry went by the board.

I well remember a colleague who felt so strongly that British Leyland should have the increase "Red Robbo" was demanding that he took leave of absence and stood on a picket line with his union colleagues. I asked him, why was it then that he himself drove a Volkswagen. Better built and cheaper was the reply yet he had helped drive our mass car market into extinction.

No cars no ships, who needs steel? so BSC went under as well. the rump of all those industries remain of course but almost all are foreign owned, and the plug can be pulled at any time.

As you so rightly say a lot of the rest is down to short sighted governments following "push pull" politics each throw of the dice reducing our ability to compete a little more. I worked in training for some years. That is why I went abroad so much. They set great store by training their nationals so that they wouldn't have to import skills they didn't have. In Britain's case most companies - almost all talked a great training programme, but when savings had to be made, training was the first to lose out. They also set great store by our N.V.Q. system, so mutilated here, and British qualifications. I spent a full 6 months liaising with the British Council in Hong Kong getting Chinese nationals through the exam for the then 16th edition of the IEE wiring regs.

Yes we have lost out and we may never get the work back but it wasn't only the governments. Scargill for example was very fond of telling us we had some of the greatest reserves of deep coal deposits in the world. He somehow failed to explain that the danger level increases dramatically the deeper you go and I have worked underground so I know. he also omitted to mention that these vast deposits were so contaminated with Sulphur as to be useless.

A bit like the LIb. Dems.

fuzeta wrote:A rash of Clegg's does not bear thinking about Malena  He is one of the most two faced, double dealing, so called  politician of our time. He was no good at it either. That is why his  party are obliterated.  He still hangs on to that seat of his though, for the next five years anyway. God knows why,  I would have loved to have seen him lose that.  It would have been the icing on the cake.

Some countries that have PR have many problems with it because nothing gets done.  I agree with it in theory but in practice it does not seem to work

Good evening fuzeta

Two faced and double dealing? don't beat about the bush just come out and say what you mean.

I take Malena's point. PR now would have the Lib. Dems back as a fighting force, and that is the last thing this country needs. Of course we don't need the comfortable two party system either. That has brought the country to it's knees with the Lib. Dems proving why they have been the voice crying in the wilderness for a century. We do need a shake up and a massive one at that. I wish I knew the answers fuzeta, I really do.

A good post katertaif, we ourselves are as much to blame as any of the governments, if not more. We became very greedy and had no sense or foresight to what we were doing to our own industry. Not whilst the unions were behind our every move. I was friends with car workers who loved the night shifts as they had beds for the night and took it in turns. Clocked each other in. Car parts thrown over the fence to sell. No one dare say a word to them else the unions would have them out on strike. I knew someone that worked at Servis I think it was. God knows how many washing machines got a bang in the side and had to be taken away as scrap. Only to end up in someone's kitchen. I could go on.

We had it made but we did not know when we were well off, until they killed the goose. We cannot keep blaming governments.

katertaif wrote:

fuzeta wrote:A rash of Clegg's does not bear thinking about Malena  He is one of the most two faced, double dealing, so called  politician of our time. He was no good at it either. That is why his  party are obliterated.  He still hangs on to that seat of his though, for the next five years anyway. God knows why,  I would have loved to have seen him lose that.  It would have been the icing on the cake.

Some countries that have PR have many problems with it because nothing gets done.  I agree with it in theory but in practice it does not seem to work

Good evening fuzeta

Two faced and double dealing? don't beat about the bush just come out and say what you mean.

I take Malena's point. PR now would have the Lib. Dems back as a fighting force, and that is the last thing this country needs. Of course we don't need the comfortable two party system either. That has brought the country to it's knees with the Lib. Dems proving why they have been the voice crying in the wilderness for a century. We do need a shake up and a massive one at that. I wish I knew the answers fuzeta, I really do.

well katertaif I was actually being quite restrained, I could have called him many other things

THERE HAVE BEEN ALLEGATIONS OF ELECTORAL FRAUD IN THANET SOUTH.

Badboy wrote:THERE HAVE BEEN ALLEGATIONS OF ELECTORAL FRAUD IN THANET SOUTH.

Sour Grapes.

Only suprise was Al Murrey didnt get more.