Greece will not default

Despite all the months of talking, and the name calling, and the Greek elections voting in an apparently intransigent government, I believe Greece will get it's money. It's beyond politics, and always was. There would be too much egg on too many faces to allow Greece to default and leave the Eurozone, despite the fact that they do most of their business with the Soviet Bloc anyway.

The logic of it all is in any case completely ridiculous. Greece needs to pay back 1.6 billion Euros by the end of the month. but they haven't got it, so we have to lend it to them (again) so they can pay what they owe. try telling your bank manager that, and I know what he will say. Still, they are latching on to any thin excuse which will enable the EU to give Greece this money, and save face. They have already had huge slices of it written off, and I expect there will be more. Greece knows they are going to get it, and so do our intrepid leaders. Only the excuse is now needed.

So what have they all been conflabbing about all these months at great expense to the respective taxpayers?

HERS'S A THOUGHT,MAYBE THERE SHOULD INCREASE VAT ON LUXURY GOODS,ESPECIALLY YACHTS,MAKE THE RICH PAY MORE.
MAKE PAYING TAXES A SOCIAL OBLIGATION.
WHAT IS NEEDED IS AN ECONOMIC BOOM SO THEY CAN PAY IT BACK.

Badboy wrote:HERS'S A THOUGHT,MAYBE THERE SHOULD INCREASE VAT ON LUXURY GOODS,ESPECIALLY YACHTS,MAKE THE RICH PAY MORE.
MAKE PAYING TAXES A SOCIAL OBLIGATION.
WHAT IS NEEDED IS AN ECONOMIC BOOM SO THEY CAN PAY IT BACK.

Good afternoon my friend

I don't believe they ever had any intention of paying it back. Greece joined for the same reason as several other countries did. for what they could get out of it. Let's say for the sake of discussion I owe the bank say £50,000. I'm due to pay back a slice of it at the end of this month. I go to my bank manager and tell him I have no money. and he will have to lend me a further £5,000 so I can pay him the £5,000 I owe him. I think we both know what the manager would tell me. yet that is exactly what Greece is doing.

The bank manager might also point out that as I own my own company, I am paying myself more than the company can afford. perhaps I run a jaguar, when a lesser car would do. again that is what Greece is doing.

Large chunks of the money they have been "loaned" have already been written off. They want even more written off. they want the money "given" to them not "loaned". As I ay, I believe that is why they joined in the first place. It amounts to legalised robbery

Badboy wrote:HERS'S A THOUGHT,MAYBE THERE SHOULD INCREASE VAT ON LUXURY GOODS,ESPECIALLY YACHTS,MAKE THE RICH PAY MORE.
MAKE PAYING TAXES A SOCIAL OBLIGATION.
WHAT IS NEEDED IS AN ECONOMIC BOOM SO THEY CAN PAY IT BACK.

Hello Badboy, well I do not think the Greeks look at taxes as a social obligation and I do not think they every will. I think most of us knew they would not default. The powers that be in the Eurozone would not let them, Tsipras knew they would not let them, so he played the game. They all did the dance that was expected, cobbled together a so called solution. All a lot of smoke and mirrors, who knows what they really agreed but a show had to be put on. Whether Tsipras will carry out all these austerity measure I doubt very much and the big boys in the Eurozone probably know he won't. This common currency, which has never been viable imo, seems to have to be protected no matter what. All that will happen is Greece will get into an even worse situation and next time it will be twice as bad.

As others said they should never have joined, they had an alternative economy and it worked. Now because they thought they were going to get something for nothing they are right in the mire. Mind you a lot of those countries that have joined recently have the same thinking and will probably end up in the same mess.

When those 2 billion Euros were placed in the Greek banks on Friday, we knew they were remaining in the net. I know it is of their own making but I feel truly sorry that Greece has come to this. I still have a love for the place. I always enjoy being in Greece.

Well I never thought it would happen but it is looking a close call now. I really do think that the best thing for Greece would be to go back to the Drachma, always thought it. It will be tremendously difficult time for them but things can only get worse if they stay with the Euro. Control over their own economy is the best thing imo. I have put up a link to a good article on the whole mess. it is a bit long but worth reading.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/28/greece-crisis-eurozone-sarajevo-moment?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

fuzeta wrote:Well I never thought it would happen but it is looking a close call now.  I really do think that the best thing for Greece would be to go back to the Drachma, always thought it.  It will be tremendously difficult time for them but things can only get worse if they stay with the Euro.  Control over their own economy is the best thing imo.   I have put  up a link to a good article on the whole mess.  it is a bit long but worth reading.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/28/greece-crisis-eurozone-sarajevo-moment?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Pound to a Euro a way will be found to keep them in. Until I see their exit with my own eyes I will not believe it

Angelina wrote:

fuzeta wrote:Well I never thought it would happen but it is looking a close call now.  I really do think that the best thing for Greece would be to go back to the Drachma, always thought it.  It will be tremendously difficult time for them but things can only get worse if they stay with the Euro.  Control over their own economy is the best thing imo.   I have put  up a link to a good article on the whole mess.  it is a bit long but worth reading.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/28/greece-crisis-eurozone-sarajevo-moment?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

Pound to a Euro a way will be found to keep them in.    Until I see their exit with my own eyes I will not believe it

Fuzeta's argument is compelling and makes an excellent case for this new buzzword "Grexit" However, we have to bear in mind that Greece cooked the books to get into the European community, and then cooked them some more to get into the Eurozone, and everyone knew it. It is looking very bad but it would be bad for the rest of Europe and particularly Ms Merkel. They were all so keen to expand their bubble, they had to have Greece in at any price. To have them crash out now would put a great deal of egg on a great many faces. Like you Angelina I'll believe it when it happens.

They will come up with a great deal of nonsense, and probably wipe yet another tranche of Greece's debt off. After all, that's all Greece came in for. The whole edifice is so wasteful and full of corruption anyway that whatever economic miracle they pull off it will just be a drop in the ocean.

I feel the same as you Angelina and Katertaif, believe it when I see it. It is just a very close call now. In the Guardian article it writes that the powers that be did not expect Tsipras to hold out like he has. I always thought that he would but I expected Merkel and co to have made sure they stayed sooner than this.

THEY ARE SAYING IF GREECE GOES,ITALY,PORTUGAL AND SPAIN WILL BE NEXT.

fuzeta wrote:I feel the same as you Angelina and Katertaif, believe it when I see it.  It is just a very close call now.   In the Guardian article it writes that the powers that be did not expect Tsipras to hold out like he has.    I always thought that he would but I expected Merkel and co to  have made sure they stayed sooner than this.

Oh yes, 'the powers that be' are used to cowards like the politics in Portugal. They don't know how to deal with people with balls.

fuzeta wrote:I feel the same as you Angelina and Katertaif, believe it when I see it.  It is just a very close call now.   In the Guardian article it writes that the powers that be did not expect Tsipras to hold out like he has.    I always thought that he would but I expected Merkel and co to  have made sure they stayed sooner than this.

Absolutely spot on fuzeta. You are 100% correct, and all things being equal you would be right about Greece leaving. The problem being Portugal, Italy, Spain, Eire, Roumania, Bulgaria, etc, If Greece goes that leaves us all on shaky ground. Not only those who joined for what was in it for them, but even the likes of us, apparently borrowing billions every month. I realise this side of it is only a paper exercise, yet sooner or later we have to get on track as well. Meanwhile lots and lots of hard cash as against a paper exercise has been spent or squandered if you will on building up the infrastructure of other countries to render them on a par with the rest of the wonderful Common Market? European Community, soon to be the United States of Europe. Cameron was even championing Turkey to join. I don't know if he still is, but talk about a poisoned chalice!!!!

Tspiras and his Syriza party are playing brinkmanship they have nothing else to play with, certainly not money. I still think a form of words will be found words which are in essence meaningless, but will allow the continued flow of money, with perhaps a few small tokens of austerity thrown to make it look good. if I were a gambling man (my government being thankful that I am not) I would place a small bet on the date of this apparently cobbled up referendum having been chosen some time ago.

Badboy wrote:THEY ARE SAYING IF GREECE GOES,ITALY,PORTUGAL AND SPAIN WILL BE NEXT.

l Good evening old son. You have hit the nail squarely on the head as usual. All those countries (and some others) who did not really qualify for the new style common market will find that things have changed fundamentally. I have no doubt there will be a scramble to "rearrange" things. It all depends now on who emerges victorious between Tspiras, Merkel and Hollande.

There is the small factor that Tspiras approached Putin for help and that Greece; far from doing most of it's business with the EU prefers to deal wit Putin and Mother Russia. That is a factor we have no knowledge of, or control over. and in the scheme of things $1.6 Billion is not an awful amount of money. (Unless I had it) There may be a twist or two in the tail yet.

Badboy wrote:THEY ARE SAYING IF GREECE GOES,ITALY,PORTUGAL AND SPAIN WILL BE NEXT.

Good morning Badboy.

Well today's the day - or is it? Now Tspiras is apparently threatening to sue the rest of Europe. Apart from this not making for very amicable relations My understanding is that the European Courts take forever before even hearing a case. What that means in terms of Greek finances I don't know. Do they get some sort of "drip feed" until the case is decided? or do they get the lot which would be utterly impossible to pay back/ I think this is the idea all along. Settle out of court by wiping out another huge slice of the debt.

I think the latest brainwave of telling Brits, and presumably everyone else as well. to carry £thousands with them to cater for all emergencies could very well mean a good slice of that money ending up in A. & E. I for one will not be going there in the present climate. Certainly not flaunting huge wads of cash about. (I should be so lucky)

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/29/joseph-stiglitz-how-i-would-vote-in-the-greek-referendum?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

I think this is another good article from the Guardian, I am finding them excellent in reporting on this crises. It is about Power and Democracy. Also about the last austerity measures imposed on Greece sent them backwards instead of forwards

In my own opinion there is no democracy within the EU, It is all about power. I believe that the crises situations we have been seeing lately shows that they are a shambles. They are making a mess of everything that comes their way. Countries should not be ruled by power mad people in Brussels on huge salaries. The people of these countries have no say about anything. We vote governments in because we think they are the best thing for us and they just get overruled by Brussels.
Every country is different and long may it remain so, what a boring old world it would be if we were all the same, we will all be clones soon. We should be allowed to make our own laws and rules which would be suitable for our own countries. This is the biggest problem with the EU, what works for one does not work for another. We have to follow rules that are detrimental to us, if we protest it gets us nowhere. Everyone was jogging along fine and then came the EU

As for the Euro, I cannot believe what madness possessed them to think that a single currency would work for all countries, all with a different economy and way of life.

fuzeta wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/29/joseph-stiglitz-how-i-would-vote-in-the-greek-referendum?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

I think this is another good article from the Guardian, I am finding them excellent in reporting on this crises. It is about Power and Democracy. Also about the last austerity measures imposed on Greece sent them backwards instead of forwards

In my own opinion there is no democracy within the EU, It is all about power. I believe that the crises situations we have been seeing lately shows that they are a shambles. They are making a mess of everything that comes their way.  Countries should not  be ruled by power mad people in Brussels on huge salaries. The people of these countries have no say about anything.   We vote governments in because we think they are the best thing for us and they just get overruled by Brussels.
Every country is different and long may it remain so, what a boring old world it would be if we were all the same, we will all be clones soon.  We should be allowed to make our own laws and rules which would be suitable for our own countries.  This is the biggest problem with the EU, what works for one does not work for another.  We have to follow rules that are detrimental to us, if we protest it gets us nowhere.  Everyone was jogging along fine and then came the EU

As for the Euro, I cannot believe what madness possessed them to think that a single currency would work for all countries, all with a different economy and way of life.

Absolutely Fuzeta!! The powers that be were, and are, far more interested in their own political agenda The damage that they may be doing is unimportant. You just cannot take a dozen or more countries with different cultures different outlooks, and with their own histories of their new found colleagues; and weld them into some sort of hegemony within a generation. I don't say it cannot be done at all but Festina lente in this case is very apt. (Make haste slowly)

THINGS ARE CHAOTIC WITH EVERYONE ESPECIALLY PENSIONER RESTRICTED TO £60 A WEEK,SOME BUSINESSES HAVE NO CUSTOMER,CAN'T PAY SUPPLIERS,STOCK RUNNING OUT.
ONLY TOURIST CAN DRAW OUT UNLIMITED AMOUNTS,AMOUNT OF CASH IN BANKS GOING TO DRY UP.

IMF HAS SAID GREECE NEEDS 60BILLION EUROS TO SEE OUT NEXT 3 YEARS AS WELL AS DEBT RELIEF.

SOMEONE HAS SUGGESTED THAT IF GREEK TOURIST BOARD WAS TO OFFER FREE FLIGHTS,TOURIST WOULD FLOCK TO GREECE SPENDING MONEY.

Badboy wrote:SOMEONE HAS SUGGESTED THAT IF GREEK TOURIST BOARD WAS TO OFFER FREE FLIGHTS,TOURIST WOULD FLOCK TO GREECE SPENDING MONEY.

Good morning old son

I think that while that may have been true before Greece started having money showered on it, it may not be enough now. Yes Greece was heavily dependent on tourism and to an extent still is, but the injections of cash have left the average Greek citizen and especially pensioners wanting more. None of them want to go back to tightening their belts so to speak. Whatever they say tomorrow Yes or no, they essentially mean the same thing gimme!!!

I suppose we would feel the same in that position (we always seem to be the one's paying for it.) Surely though, there must be someone in the Greek government who realises they just cant go on forever. The IMF was warned some time ago, that the debt level in Greece was unsustainable, the position is of course worse now and the longer they sit and shout at each other, the worse it will get.

I believe the Greeks are working towards getting the debt cancelled altogether (They're already claiming it was given illegally) and then they can start borrowing again. All that will do is get the others who joined for what they could get demanding the same treatment. then when their economies have been repaired, and we are on our uppers, I wonder how much help we will get from them.

GREECE HAS BEEN DECLARED IN DEFAULT AND THE EUROEAN LOAN TO BE REPAYED 20 JULY MAY HAVE TO BE REPAYED EARLY.
GREECE'S FOREIGN HAS ACCUSED CREDITORS OF TERRORISM.
MANY PEOPLE TOMORROW MAY VOTE YES TO CREDITORS.

Badboy wrote:THINGS ARE CHAOTIC WITH EVERYONE ESPECIALLY PENSIONER RESTRICTED TO £60 A WEEK,SOME BUSINESSES HAVE NO CUSTOMER,CAN'T PAY SUPPLIERS,STOCK RUNNING OUT.
ONLY TOURIST CAN DRAW OUT UNLIMITED AMOUNTS,AMOUNT OF CASH IN BANKS GOING TO DRY UP.

In other words old son, they want to "borrow" ever more money from the terrorists of the IMF while refusing to pay back what they already owe, with a large slice of what they owe being forgiven and a 20 year grace period for the rest.

Good game, good game.

FUEL AND FOOD ARE IN SHORT SUPPLY AS GREECE GOES TO VOTE.

Badboy wrote:FUEL AND FOOD ARE IN SHORT SUPPLY AS GREECE GOES TO VOTE.

It seems that some Greeks believe (or pretend to) that a "no" vote is going to make the creditors change their minds and put further offers on the table.   I doubt it somehow but.........

ETA...I have a feeling that ordinary people are being duped into playing some sort of brinkmanship without them knowing it

BANKS EXPEDCTED TO RUN OUT OF MONEY BY TOMORROW.

We will see! I do think that Brussels is more scared of them leaving than the Greeks are of doing so.  I remember when we lived there no alcohol could be sold on election days and that applied to the tourists as well.  Mind you they sometimes managed to get round it.