Greece will not default

Lioned wrote:There is no reason why Greece cannot sustain itself if it leaves the Euro.Infact the Euro has worked very much against it,as it has with other countries
Greece has one of the largest merchant Navy's in the World for shipping goods now mainly from Asia.Its tourist industry is well known and would improve substantially with the return of the Drachma.
They are best to get out of the Euro as would be Spain and Italy and France and Portugal.

fully agree. the euro has been a disaster not that you'll get any of those countries that birthed it to agree.

SOME OF THE EU THINKS GREECE'S PROPOSALS DON'T GO FAR ENOUGH.

Badboy wrote:SOME OF THE EU THINKS GREECE'S PROPOSALS DON'T GO FAR ENOUGH.

Yes, until there are people in Greece who actually still own a house, some of the EU will keep thinking that. Makes sense. Austerity has resulted so well up untill now so why not keep doing it?

I AM NOT SURE,BUT IT SEEMS TALKS HAVE COLLAPSED,WHAT NOW?

Badboy wrote:I AM NOT SURE,BUT IT SEEMS TALKS HAVE COLLAPSED,WHAT NOW?

Good morning Badboy

There is no what now and I don't believe there ever was. This morning they are full of a historic agreement which when they started taking questions, admitted there was much fine detail still to be worked on. They are going to keep Greece in the Eurozone, and they are going to keep the Euro as Greeks currency. There is no plan B, and was never allowed to be. The rest is a form of words largely down to the intransigence of Tspiras and his Syriza paty. Remember this is an organisation who from it's conception to the all encompassing presence it has become, has never had a reputable auditor sign off it's own books, such is the wastage Year on year.

Of course what happens when it dawns on the Greek populace that the government they elected on an anti austerity ticket has agreed to several austerity measures is another story.

They will not like it, and to a degree, I don't blame them. As usual, they (like the rest of us) have been and are still being led by a bunch with I believe have little idea. Nor am I saying I have, I haven't. If it was left to those who are sometimes referred to as the men in Grey suits . Things might get put right. So I believe that Greece will stay in the Eurozone, and the Euro zone, but there is a bit more mileage in it yet.

Good morning Katertaif, well talk about selling you soul to the devil, banks and all. Not that they had a lot of choice. So once again a German Chancellor rules Greece.  Must bring a sense of deja vu to the older people of Greece. What an outrage.

50BILLION EUROS OR IS IT STATE OWNED ASSETS WORTH THAT TO BE PUT IN A TRUST FUND TO BE A GUARTANTEE.
MANY RICH VILLA OWNERS ARE TRYING TO SELL THEIR VILLAS AT HALF PRICE.

Well Badboy maybe some of the leaders of the rest of the Eurozone will buy a few!   They say "it's an ill wind that blows no one any good"

I am in a very sad mood tonight Badboy after what has happened to Greece.  What I want to know is, why are the austerity measures more severe because the Greek people voted NO last Sunday?   Only vindictiveness  can be the reason, no other.   They have taken over Greece and got rid of Tsipras at the same time.  They made sure that the Greek people would have him out at the first opportunity.   What a move that was, one that could only be plotted by a dictatorship.  Shame on the lot of them.

PERHAPS SLIGHTY OFF TOPIC ,IT WAS AN ANCIENT GREEK WHO NOTICED THAT MONEY TENDS TO FLOW FROM THE POOR TO THE RICH,DON'T KNOW NAME OFFHAND.
INVENTION OF MONEY WAS POSSIBLY BIG MISTAKE AS WELL AS THE INVENTION OF DEBT BY FRANCE BACK IN 1700S BY A MURDERER.

fuzeta wrote:Well Badboy maybe some of the leaders of the rest of the Eurozone will buy a few!   They say "it's an ill wind that blows no one any good"

I am in a very sad mood tonight Badboy after what has happened to Greece.  What I want to know is, why are the austerity measures more severe because the Greek people voted NO last Sunday?   Only vindictiveness  can be the reason, no other.   They have taken over Greece and got rid of Tsipras at the same time.  They made sure that the Greek people would have him out at the first opportunity.   What a move that was, one that could only be plotted by a dictatorship.  Shame on the lot of them.

And example had to be made of Greece. 'Do not dare to defy us, do not dare to do different from what you're told and do not dare to vote against our wishes otherwise we will crush you.' The fact that Europeans in general don't see the reality of what is happening and therefore allow 'our leaders' to behave like they did is what I truly find the most scary.

GREEK GOVERNMENT/PARLIAMENT MUST APPROVE MEASURES BY WEDNESDAY OTHERWISE ALL BETS ARE OFF.
PRICES OF GREEK HOLIDAYS HAVE DROPPED 70%,ONE HOLIDAY COMPANY EVEN SHOWED VIDEO OF SUPERMARKET SHELVES FULL OF PRODUCT TO PERSUADE POTENTIAL HOLIDAY MAKERS THAT EVERYTHING IS OK.
GERMAN HOLIDAY MAKERS HAVE CANCALLED BOOKINGS.

Hallo fuzeta and all speaking here today I have to say I totally agree with how you feel re Greece, sad is the word ,and this is just what I always felt worried about ,once in Euro zone ,your country is no longer under your own people and yes at no time has the Eurozone had its books signed off ,how can they pick and choose what to do for others ? joyce1938

Hello Joyce, yes it is all very sad and a shock at how the leaders of some of the Eurozone behaved. They should be careful, could be their turn next.

If only Greece could have had some sort of contingency plan to go back to the drachma, they left everything too late. Plus of course a plan needs money and they did not have any. Why do these countries want to cling on to the Euro at all costs? I don't know. Perhaps it is because they are in too deep and cannot afford to get out of it.

Greece governments made a lot of bad mistakes when they changed to the euro, splashing money about like no tomorrow. Now they are paying for it and my goodness the price is high, too high. They seem to be taking pleasure in their suffering and humiliation.
As I have said before they had a sort of cash economy that worked for them with the drachma. Payment of tax was avoided whenever possible. They say it is easier to avoid paying tax in Greece than to pay it. This I believe is true because their massive amounts of complicated paperwork would rival Italy.

I believe that Merkel and some others actually wanted them out of the Eurozone, France wanted them to stay and if they had left it would have caused a split between France and Germany. What would have been kinder maybe was to help them go back to the drachma or some other solution. Not to do what they have done to them. Mind you it has not been passed by their parliament yet.

IT IS BEING SAID THAT A LOT OF SYRIZA MPS ARE AGAINST THE DEAL,MIGHT PASS THROUGH PARLIAMENT,IF IT DOESN'T CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

ONE PROBLEM WITH GREECE MAY BE LACK OF EXPORTS,IRELAND AND PORTUGAL HAVE BOUNCED BACK FROM THEIR AUSTERITY PACKAGE BECAUSE OF EXPORTS.

Badboy wrote:IT IS BEING SAID THAT A LOT OF SYRIZA MPS ARE AGAINST THE DEAL,MIGHT PASS THROUGH PARLIAMENT,IF IT DOESN'T CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

ONE PROBLEM WITH GREECE MAY BE LACK OF EXPORTS,IRELAND AND PORTUGAL HAVE BOUNCED BACK FROM THEIR AUSTERITY PACKAGE BECAUSE OF EXPORTS.

I speak only for my country. We haven't bounced back from anything. That's what they want people to believe. On paper, some numbers can look better, it's true. But what that meant for the people cannot be explained. It's heartbreaking.

Claudia79 wrote:

Badboy wrote:IT IS BEING SAID THAT A LOT OF SYRIZA MPS ARE AGAINST THE DEAL,MIGHT PASS THROUGH PARLIAMENT,IF IT DOESN'T CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

ONE PROBLEM WITH GREECE MAY BE LACK OF EXPORTS,IRELAND AND PORTUGAL HAVE BOUNCED BACK FROM THEIR AUSTERITY PACKAGE BECAUSE OF EXPORTS.

I speak only for my country. We haven't bounced back from anything. That's what they want people to believe. On paper, some numbers can look better, it's true. But what that meant for the people cannot be explained. It's heartbreaking.

SORRY TO HEAR THAT,CLAUDIA.

Badboy wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Badboy wrote:IT IS BEING SAID THAT A LOT OF SYRIZA MPS ARE AGAINST THE DEAL,MIGHT PASS THROUGH PARLIAMENT,IF IT DOESN'T CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

ONE PROBLEM WITH GREECE MAY BE LACK OF EXPORTS,IRELAND AND PORTUGAL HAVE BOUNCED BACK FROM THEIR AUSTERITY PACKAGE BECAUSE OF EXPORTS.

I speak only for my country. We haven't bounced back from anything. That's what they want people to believe. On paper, some numbers can look better, it's true. But what that meant for the people cannot be explained. It's heartbreaking.

SORRY TO HEAR THAT,CLAUDIA.

I'm sorry too, Badboy.

Reading the Guardian again, a paper I do not read often but may read more in the future on certain issues.  I am finding it sensitive to what is really happening to Greece and I am with them on that.

They are saying that Tsipras was mentally waterboarded.  Myself I can only imagine what it must have been like for him being bombarded all through the night with absolutely no one on his side.  He must have been exhausted.  This I find an infringement of human rights.  Something the EU shouts about all the time but obviously does not apply to it's leaders. Apparently  Hollande sent some advisers from France to help Tsipras put together something that was thought suitable for the negotiations, something that could be worked on.  Seems it was immediately torn up, so to speak.  Maybe France was not the best choice for this task.

I just wish the Greeks would refuse this terrible package they have been given but how can they? They are desperate. Oh please can't something be done about this, how can the rest of the Eurozone watch this happening?  Further down the line they will all be in the same boat,  then what? Will Merkel and co pick them off one by one?  Will they all be ruled by Germany?  This currency does not work, they should all get out now whilst they have the means to do so.  Will they look at what has happened to Greece and learn the lesson?  I doubt it.  I wish they would before it is to late.  I can hardly bear to look at that Merkel woman.

IMF HAS SAID GREECE'S DEBT IS UNPAYABLE.

Badboy wrote:IMF HAS SAID GREECE'S DEBT IS UNPAYABLE.

It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Anyone saying the Greeks don't want to pay have no idea what they are talking about. It's not payable. If they get this 3r 'loan', it will only be to inject money in banks and to pay debts and the corresponding interest. The Greek people, those in real need, won't see a Euro of it. And the only reason the situation isn't as bad in Portugal is because we have lower interest rates since the 'markets' were focused on asphyxiating the Greeks. If by any chance Greece leaves the Euro, what is being done to the Greeks will probably happen to Portugal. And then probably Spain, and possibly Italy. And...

Hallo Claudia,y sad to see thia with Greece ,and I have visited Portugal a lot over 8 years to Tavera eastern Portugal . I have noticed the poorness of lots people there ,over about 4 years ,when all ready it was tight and collections from outside the supermarket ,for th ecountry people and children I mean foods . now so many shops closed too and property very slow to sell. I like the people and am sad to see them in low wages etc. and possably fewer visitors for a lot of the year . so I just hope there will be a turnaround soon . joyce1938

Badboy wrote:IMF HAS SAID GREECE'S DEBT IS UNPAYABLE.

I have never blamed the Greek people themselves for anything. They have been badly led, and badly let down, not only by their own politicians, but by Europe as a whole. None of this would have been necessary if people who actually knew what they were talking rather than so called heads of state made such decisions.

Now it seems that the deal that was reached only yesterday is no good, massive amounts of help seem still to be necessary. I still don't see why we have to keep shelling out, Greece should not have been allowed to circumvent the conditions necessary for membership, or for adopting the Euro. The fact is they were, and it isn't the politicians who are now paying for it. It's the people, the man in the street. The Greeks, Germans, and us. Our politicians have proved themselves right across the board to be as inept a bunch as you could get. Not fit for purpose.

Portugal I understand was in a similar position not so long ago, but today, from everything I have seen Portugal is a success story. If this is true, what has Portugal done right, that Greece should be doing. Should our fearless leaders not be looking into that?

Tspiras and his Syriza party seem to have given way on virtually everything the EU wanted. Now the EU seems to want more. I don't pretend to understand the economics of it. It seems though glaringly obvious that our intrepid leaders don't either, and in the meantime it means more misery for the man in the street in Greece.

From what I can see they wouldn't be any worse off if they went back to the Drachma. Obviously they would face years of hardship but could it be any worse than the hardship this deal will cause them?

Let them go it alone and re-build their economy. They would be able to bring in their own laws, set their own taxes and interest rates. With the low prices they would have to have tourists would come back to bag a bargain. At the moment tourists are worried about lack of food, lack of available money( it's not really safe to take a lot of cash and you aren't covered by your travel insurance for much)- and the concern about being taken ill and having to go into a local hospital.

Eventually they could turn things around. Stay with the Euro and they will never get back on their feet.

Absolutely Angelina but they need some cash to do that.  Where are they going to get the help they need? Not from the Eurozone that is for sure. Bar Stewards that they are.

IMF HAS SAID THAT DEBTS EQUAL 200% OF GREECE'S GDP(IF LATEST LOAN GOES AHEAD) WHICH IS UNSUSTAINABLE,CONTRADICTING AN EARLIER REPORT FOR THE EU.
IMF MAY NOT PROVIDE FUNDS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALLOWED UNDER THEIR RULES TO LOAN TO COUNTRIES WHERE DEBTS ARE UNSUSTAINABLE.
IF GREECE GETS LOAN,GREECE WILL OWE £330BILLION.
BRITAIN IS EXPECTED TO CHIP IN ALMOST £1BILLION.