Greece will not default

fuzeta wrote:Absolutely Angelina but they need some cash to do that.  Where are they going to get the help they need? Not from the Eurozone that is for sure. Bar Stewards that they are.

No idea. They are well and truly up the creek without a paddle

joyce1938 wrote:Hallo  Claudia,y sad to see thia with Greece ,and I have visited Portugal a lot over 8 years to Tavera eastern Portugal . I have noticed the poorness of lots people there ,over about 4 years ,when all ready it was tight and collections from outside the supermarket ,for th ecountry people and children  I mean foods . now so many shops closed too and property very slow to sell. I like the people and am sad to see them in low wages etc. and possably fewer visitors for a lot of the year . so I just hope there will be a turnaround soon . joyce1938

Those saying Portugal is a successful case have no idea what they are talking about. There is nothing successful about having more and more people live with 500€ (the minimum wage). There is nothing successful about seeing businesses around for many decades go out of business. There is nothing successful about seeing half million people leaving the country in the last 4 years. And there is certainly nothing successful about going from marginal numbers of homeless people to having thousands. I have no idea how many years it will take my country to recover from what has happened assuming it ever will.

Angelina wrote:From what I can see they wouldn't be any worse off if they went back to the Drachma.   Obviously they would face years of hardship but could it be any worse than the hardship this deal will cause them?

Let them go it alone and re-build their economy.    They would be able to bring in their own laws, set their own taxes and interest rates.    With the low prices they would have to have tourists would come back to bag a bargain.  At the moment tourists are worried about lack of food, lack of available money( it's not really safe to take a lot of cash and you aren't covered by your travel insurance for much)- and the concern about being taken ill and having to go into a local hospital.  

Eventually they could turn things around.   Stay with the Euro and they will never get back on their feet.

Hi Angelina

I think you are right. Their only real chance to rebuild their economy is to go back to how they were. Tourism was a major part of their economy as you say. It could be again.

I believe the overriding mistake is to try to weld so many different cultures customs, and traditions into one, especially in so short a time. The United States of Europe is the ultimate dream for the Eurocrats. Nature took several thousand years to fashion Europe as it is today. The buffoons in Brussels think they can undo that in a matter of less than a century. Good game good game.

THE REFORM BILL HAS PASSED THE PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE STAGE AND I THINK HAS BEEN PASSED BY GREEK PARLIAMENT,ALTHOUGH 30 SYRIZA MPS SAID THEY WERE AGAINST.
DEPUTY FINANCE MINISTER HAS RESIGNED.
SOME THINK PM WILL RESIGN AS WELL.
SOME SEE THIS AS A COUP BY EU ON TWITTER.

Two quotes from a newspaper yesterday that sums it up.

" If Greece is in a hole, the rest of the Eurozone will hand them a spade and tell them to keep digging"

" Analysis -
Condemned to debtors' prison, barely a chink of light filtering through its bars"

GUARDIAN,I PRESUME?

Badboy wrote:GUARDIAN,I PRESUME?

Yes you are right Badboy. I am at the moment watching the live updates on the Guardian page and I want to cry at what is happening.

EU WILL PROVIDE 7BILLION EUROS,GREEK BANKS TO RECEIVE 100BILLION EUROS INJECTION.
IF SOME GREEK BANKS COLLAPSED,OTHER EURO BANKS COULD BE AFFECTED.
MOODY'S HAS SAID GREECE'S DEBT IS UNSUSTAINABLE.

Badboy wrote:EU WILL PROVIDE 7BILLION EUROS,GREEK BANKS TO RECEIVE 100BILLION EUROS INJECTION.
IF  SOME GREEK BANKS COLLAPSED,OTHER EURO  BANKS COULD BE AFFECTED.
MOODY'S HAS SAID GREECE'S DEBT IS UNSUSTAINABLE.

Not sure about your figures but Greece has never been in a position to repay the 'alleged' debt.Never will.Their economy is heavily dependent on service industries,as i think you may have mentioned earlier.

The Euro is doomed to failure eventually as the productive/manufacturing countries cannot support those 'unproductive' countries indefinitely.
Simple economics.

It can only work as a European 'State' with a number of poor gheto's.Which ultimately is probably what the power mongers envisage.

GREECE'S MAIN INDUSTRY APPEARS TO BE TOURISM.

SOME RICH GREEKS THINKING THEIR SAVINGS MIGHT BE SEIZED LIKE IN CYPRUS HAVE GONE ON A SPENDING SPREE,ONE PERSON EVEN TRIED TO BUY £1MILLION WORTH OF JEWELLRY,ONLY TO BE TOLD THE SHOP COULDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THE BANKS HAD PROBLEMS,VAT RECEIPTS HAVE INCREASED.

Badboy wrote:SOME RICH GREEKS THINKING THEIR SAVINGS MIGHT BE SEIZED LIKE IN CYPRUS HAVE GONE ON A SPENDING SPREE,ONE PERSON EVEN TRIED TO BUY £1MILLION WORTH OF JEWELLRY,ONLY TO BE TOLD THE SHOP COULDN'T DO THAT BECAUSE THE BANKS HAD PROBLEMS,VAT RECEIPTS HAVE INCREASED.

Good evening Badboy

I must admit to being highly confused. One minute after marathon talks, we have reached a deal. Ah but wait, this now needs to be ratified by another 19 member states. These talks could go on all summer we are told. meanwhile how is Greece holding on? The banks are literally empty and no two of their MP's can agree. How is the Greek man in the street managing would be my question. Yes the Greek debt is unsustainable. they cannot pay back what the have not got. The rest of the EU knew that when they allowed Greece to "cook the books",

That doesn't alter that each new deal seems to lead to an fresh round of collective bargaining on a new aspect of the new deal and meanwhile the Greek people are suffering. Greece is not going to be allowed to default because too many people will have too much egg on their faces. So rather than trying to beat the Greeks into the ground and selling off their national assets which I'd never heard of before, why cant these so called economists tackle it from the other standpoint. Greece owes a great deal of money which it cannot repay. the politicians arranged that. Sooner or later they will come to some sort of equitable deal which will at least alleviate the suffering of the Greek people

Why not take these steps that we all know must be taken eventually NOW, and save everyone a great deal of time wasting. While we are at it can those politicians who were instrumental in this debacle either resign or be kicked out, They are not fit for purpose.

FORMER GREEK FINANCE MINISTER SAYS AUSTERITY TERMS WILL FAIL.
SOME TOURISTS ARE COMPLAINING THAT SOME ESTABLISHMENTS ARE NOT GIVING OUT RECEIPTS IN ORDER TO AVOID PAYING TAXES.

Badboy wrote:FORMER GREEK FINANCE  MINISTER SAYS AUSTERITY TERMS WILL FAIL.
SOME TOURISTS ARE COMPLAINING THAT SOME ESTABLISHMENTS ARE NOT GIVING OUT RECEIPTS IN ORDER TO AVOID PAYING TAXES.

Good afternoon old son

Yes, the former finance Minister is probably quite right. By the time they get their fingers out, the debt will be that much greater. Well it's unpayable now, so I suppose any more is irrelevant.

As for business not giving out receipts, I can see the short term advantage for them, but it's all adding to the problem, which is Greece hasn't got any money and various foreign ministers are still talking about it without doing anything constructive. Meanwhile the people are getting more and more frustrated.

I LOOKED UP GREEK ENTERPRISE ON YAHOO!
THERE ARE VARIOUS ORGANISATION LIKE INVESTINGREECE ETC, TAX RELIEF FOR ENTERPRISE IS AT LEAST A MILLION EUROS,EU GRANTS ARE AVAIBLE FOR TOURISM.
SOME ENTERPRISE HAVE LOST MONEY,WHERAS SOME ARE MAKING MONEY.
TOURISM SECTOR IS UP COMPARED TO LAST YEAR,LOTS OF CANCELLATIONS DUE TO EURO CRISIS.

SOME FRENCH TOURISTS REFUSED TO PAY ENTRY FEES BECAUSE FRANCE HAS LOANED MONEY TO GREECE,SILLY.

Badboy wrote:I LOOKED UP GREEK ENTERPRISE ON YAHOO!
THERE ARE VARIOUS ORGANISATION LIKE INVESTINGREECE ETC, TAX RELIEF FOR ENTERPRISE IS AT LEAST A MILLION EUROS,EU GRANTS ARE AVAIBLE FOR TOURISM.
SOME ENTERPRISE HAVE LOST MONEY,WHERAS SOME ARE MAKING MONEY.
TOURISM SECTOR IS UP COMPARED TO LAST YEAR,LOTS OF CANCELLATIONS DUE TO EURO  CRISIS.

SOME FRENCH TOURISTS  REFUSED TO PAY ENTRY FEES BECAUSE FRANCE  HAS LOANED MONEY TO GREECE,SILLY.

How many French tourists refused to pay 'entry fees' and what is that exactly ?

IT WAS AN ENTRY FEE TO THE ACROPOLIS,I THINK

Badboy wrote:IT WAS AN ENTRY FEE TO THE ACROPOLIS,I THINK

Ah right so did the police send them away then ?

DON'T KNOW

Sounds very silly ! Did the French tourist pay for their mousaka at lunchtime or ask for it for free maybe.

Badboy wrote:I LOOKED UP GREEK ENTERPRISE ON YAHOO!
THERE ARE VARIOUS ORGANISATION LIKE INVESTINGREECE ETC, TAX RELIEF FOR ENTERPRISE IS AT LEAST A MILLION EUROS,EU GRANTS ARE AVAIBLE FOR TOURISM.
SOME ENTERPRISE HAVE LOST MONEY,WHERAS SOME ARE MAKING MONEY.
TOURISM SECTOR IS UP COMPARED TO LAST YEAR,LOTS OF CANCELLATIONS DUE TO EURO  CRISIS.

SOME FRENCH TOURISTS  REFUSED TO PAY ENTRY FEES BECAUSE FRANCE  HAS LOANED MONEY TO GREECE,SILLY.

Hello Badboy I think this is what you are referring to, it happened in Rhodes http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07/19/french-tourists-deny-to-pay-ticket-at-greek-archaeological-site-because-france-offered-loans-to-greece/

fuzeta wrote:

Badboy wrote:I LOOKED UP GREEK ENTERPRISE ON YAHOO!
THERE ARE VARIOUS ORGANISATION LIKE INVESTINGREECE ETC, TAX RELIEF FOR ENTERPRISE IS AT LEAST A MILLION EUROS,EU GRANTS ARE AVAIBLE FOR TOURISM.
SOME ENTERPRISE HAVE LOST MONEY,WHERAS SOME ARE MAKING MONEY.
TOURISM SECTOR IS UP COMPARED TO LAST YEAR,LOTS OF CANCELLATIONS DUE TO EURO  CRISIS.

SOME FRENCH TOURISTS  REFUSED TO PAY ENTRY FEES BECAUSE FRANCE  HAS LOANED MONEY TO GREECE,SILLY.

Hello Badboy I think this is what you are referring to, it happened in Rhodes http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/07/19/french-tourists-deny-to-pay-ticket-at-greek-archaeological-site-because-france-offered-loans-to-greece/

THANK YOU ,FUZETA FOR THAT,I SHOULD HAVE READ ARTICLE,ONLY PROBLEM WITH SEEING HEADLINES AND DRAWING HALF A DOZEN CONCLUSIONS WITHOUT READING THE ARTICLE.

GREECE HAS PAID OFF IMF LOANS PLUS ANOTHER TO ECB AND GREECE CENTRAL BANK.

Badboy wrote:GREECE HAS PAID OFF  IMF LOANS PLUS ANOTHER TO ECB AND GREECE CENTRAL BANK.

I saw that Badboy, it means that they have now not defaulted.

GREECE HAS RELAXED OVERSEAS PAYMENTS SO IMORTS CAN HAPPEN.
THE UNCERTAINLY OVER THE REFERENDUM COST GREEK ECONOMY 3BILLION EUROS.