Case Files discussions

Ambersuz wrote:granny its easy....you right click anywhere on the photo....in this case it is 2 photos (split)....

so to start.........right click on photos (box comes up) then click properties (right at the bottom) then another boz comes up........then highlight the location of the photo (ends in jpg) ....then click copy...

then paste it anywhere you like....to copy it into a page here....you have to paste it within the *image* link above....

The image link btw is the one that is next to the 2 photos mounted...run your mouse over them and you'll see the *image* link....

This is getting to be my daily "Thanks Amber" routine, seriously, thanks I am so busy looking I have never noticed the properties bit at the bottom of the list.
I've written your instructions out for future ref.

http://the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=24274&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

on the 25th of september at 18:33, in regard to the "Morrocan" sighting, Bushra it turned out to be.

Caplin claims to have spoken to a Spanish lawyer called Navarro.

He explains how the photo's were taken to the British Consulate, then for reasons that are not clear the Media got hold of the story.

The full details are in Apensos 13-volume XIII-apenso V.

Seguimondo Navarro's email is included.

S. Navarro-Jimenez, the spanish lawyer, who that name again, had been with his cleint, the photographer to the British Consul, given them some copies of the photo's then said photo's ended up in the media, the rest is history.

The contact at the consulate was Antonio Gavala.

So the pictures only ended up in the press AFTER they had been handed over to sources close to the McCanns



Then on 2nd page;

Laffin Assassin

I was browsing on Sky Discussions and don"t know whether you realise some of the stuff you are posting is being pasted on that Forum .

Thats True Stepper

I dont get this

Jennifer wrote: I dont get this

Basically it means it was spun out to the press.....

From the 3A's:

On the day the 'breakfast comment' was leaked there was also, on Sun front page, an apparent retraction from JT about bundleman.

The Mc's were in Brussells that day and I recall thinking to myself that the 'breakfast' comment was leaked out (maybe by the McC's) to overshadow the (possible) comments made by JT in the interviews.

Initially I thought the comment was contrived but now we know it was described to the police, I believe that Maddie's comment could have been made May 2 after Mrs Fenn's statement about the crying from 10:30pm - 11:45pm...and they just described the 'truth' transferring it to another day.

Used as another 'trade-off' of suggesting Maddie was alive on May 3.

Did they 'release it ' to the press while they were in Brussels to overshadow JT's comment?

Do I understand correctly that the 'Rogatory' interviews are not on the DVD?

Could it be that JT really DID withdraw her statement about bundleman, therefore taking away the only 'evidence' of an abduction.

Why did this information seem to 'die'?...

Did I miss something and it was confirmed to be not true or did the Mc's manage successfully to overshadow such a monumental (relative to the case) change in statements?

Once again, the Sun deleted it off their front page, despite the 'Wow' factor of the headlines.

I saved it in Madeleine Group.

http://groups.msn.com/madeleinemccann/latestnews.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=717&LastModified=4675668579796968191

Wow! Key Maddie witness U-turn - The Sun 12/4

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/article1035096.ece

THE most significant witness in the hunt for Maddie McCann has withdrawn her statement according to Portuguese newspaper reports.

Jane Tanner, 37, who said she saw the man who took Maddie on the night of her disappearance has withdrawn her statement, 24 Horas claims.

She has told Portuguese authorities she can no longer be sure the man she saw was carrying Madeleine.

Jane, one of the so-called Tapas Nine, had given detectives a detailed description of a man she saw, close to the ground floor corner apartment where the McCanns were staying on the night of her disappearance.

Based on her account, the McCanns produced an artist's impression of the man, in the hope that it might jog the memory of other holidaymakers.

The information was also used by police and private detectives employed by the McCann's in the search for Maddie.

The leaked story will be a massive blow to Kate and Gerry McCann as they try to renew the search for their daughter nearly a year after her disappearance.

The pair were already considering pulling out of plans to return to Portugal to help police reconstruct the events around their daughter Madeleine's disappearance amid a furious row over leaked interviews.

The McCanns believe transcripts of statements they gave to detectives in the hours after their daughter went missing on May 3 last year were deliberately slipped to the media by the Portuguese authorities.

The excerpts include the disclosure that Madeleine and her brother Sean apparently woke up crying the night before the three-year-old's disappearance, but her parents did not hear her as they were in a nearby restaurant.

The interviews disclosed that Madeleine asked Kate, 39, at breakfast on May 3: "Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"

The couple are demanding a full internal investigation from the Portuguese Ministry of Justice into whether the detail was deliberately passed to a Spanish journalist to "smear" them on the day they launched a campaign in Brussels for a new Europe-wide child alert system.

An artist's impression of the man Kate and Gerry McCann believe abducted their daughter

Their local MP Stephen Dorrell has pledged to raise the matter with the Foreign Office and it is understood the McCanns' Portuguese lawyers will be protesting to the relevant authorities there.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell called for the Portuguese government to "get a grip" of the leaks.

Although discussions about a possible return to Portugal to help police piece together the events of that night are still ongoing, the mood of co-operation has soured markedly.

"All this nonsense over the last 24 or 36 hours does not in any way endear them to the idea of going back," Mr Mitchell said.

It emerged yesterday that Paulo Rebelo, the detective leading the case, has already flown back to Portugal from the UK - a day earlier than expected.

Mr Mitchell said he hoped this meant Mr Rebelo had gone back "to crack some skulls".

His team of Portuguese police has been in the UK all week sitting in on interviews with the McCanns' friends who were dining with them at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.


Last edited by HiDeHo on Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:08 am

Ambersuz wrote:Wow! Key Maddie witness U-turn - The Sun 12/4

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/article1035096.ece

THE most significant witness in the hunt for Maddie McCann has withdrawn her statement according to Portuguese newspaper reports.

Jane Tanner, 37, who said she saw the man who took Maddie on the night of her disappearance has withdrawn her statement, 24 Horas claims.

She has told Portuguese authorities she can no longer be sure the man she saw was carrying Madeleine.

Jane, one of the so-called Tapas Nine, had given detectives a detailed description of a man she saw, close to the ground floor corner apartment where the McCanns were staying on the night of her disappearance.

Based on her account, the McCanns produced an artist's impression of the man, in the hope that it might jog the memory of other holidaymakers.

The information was also used by police and private detectives employed by the McCann's in the search for Maddie.

The leaked story will be a massive blow to Kate and Gerry McCann as they try to renew the search for their daughter nearly a year after her disappearance.

The pair were already considering pulling out of plans to return to Portugal to help police reconstruct the events around their daughter Madeleine's disappearance amid a furious row over leaked interviews.

The McCanns believe transcripts of statements they gave to detectives in the hours after their daughter went missing on May 3 last year were deliberately slipped to the media by the Portuguese authorities.

The excerpts include the disclosure that Madeleine and her brother Sean apparently woke up crying the night before the three-year-old's disappearance, but her parents did not hear her as they were in a nearby restaurant.

The interviews disclosed that Madeleine asked Kate, 39, at breakfast on May 3: "Mummy, why didn't you come when we were crying last night?"

The couple are demanding a full internal investigation from the Portuguese Ministry of Justice into whether the detail was deliberately passed to a Spanish journalist to "smear" them on the day they launched a campaign in Brussels for a new Europe-wide child alert system.

An artist's impression of the man Kate and Gerry McCann believe abducted their daughter

Their local MP Stephen Dorrell has pledged to raise the matter with the Foreign Office and it is understood the McCanns' Portuguese lawyers will be protesting to the relevant authorities there.

Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell called for the Portuguese government to "get a grip" of the leaks.

Although discussions about a possible return to Portugal to help police piece together the events of that night are still ongoing, the mood of co-operation has soured markedly.

"All this nonsense over the last 24 or 36 hours does not in any way endear them to the idea of going back," Mr Mitchell said.

It emerged yesterday that Paulo Rebelo, the detective leading the case, has already flown back to Portugal from the UK - a day earlier than expected.

Mr Mitchell said he hoped this meant Mr Rebelo had gone back "to crack some skulls".

His team of Portuguese police has been in the UK all week sitting in on interviews with the McCanns' friends who were dining with them at the time of Madeleine's disappearance.


Last edited by HiDeHo on Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:08 am

This is good!

Every time i read about how Madeleine cried the night before i get really upset..how lonely and unwanted must she have felt.Heartbreaking

lubelle wrote:Every time i read about how Madeleine cried the night before i get really upset..how lonely and unwanted must she have felt.Heartbreaking

Its obvious they never cared for her or her brother and sister

Translation
DVD Rogatory Letters 3rd volume
Martin Grime

Dated May 14 2008

I am a retired police offer, previously at the service of the South Yorkshire police. Between August 1-8, 2007, and while working for the South Yorkshire police, I collaborated with the Judicial Police, Portugal, as regards their Operations Task Force.
On the 17th of August 2007, I completed a report for the Head of Investigations of the Judicial Police, which was submitted by the Leicestershire Police. This report is exhibited as MG/1 and identified by the label bearing my signature. The Judicial Police is in possession of the originals of the search reports and the videos showing all searches performed and the reaction of the dogs. In addition to the report, Sam Harkeness of the Progresso Nacional Police Agency sent me by email several written questions sent by the Judicial Police together with a request for a written deposition. This deposition was submitted without me having seen or having knowledge of the final report from the forensic agency responsible for analyzing the evidence submitted in this case.

Questions and Answers:

“Could you explain the methodology regarding the performance of the dogs bearing in mind the searches that were performed?”
Please refer to my original report included in the summary (MG/1).

“Could you provide a detailed summary of the orientation capacity of the dogs, as well as an interpretation of the indications provided by them in the specific cases?”
Please refer to my original report included in the summary (MG/1).
The interpretation of any alert is given when the dogs recognize a specific odour as a result of a response to the behaviour for which they were trained. This response must then be submitted to a forensic examination in order to draw conclusions.

“In order to establish the accuracy of the dogs’ performance with respect to the alerts given when recognizing blood and a body, to what extent are these indications viable in this particular case?”
The dogs’ alerts are to be considered as an area of interest or possible testing. When specific and reliable this can only be measured for confirmation. In this case in particular, where the dogs alerted there was confirmation by positive results from the forensic examinations. It is the investigators’ responsibility to apply the results of the forensic analysis to the suspects, witnesses and crime scenes.

“Based upon the dogs’ behaviour, is it possible to distinguish between a strong signal and a weak signal”.
The dogs’ passive CSI alert provides an indication as per their training and does not vary. They only give an alert when they are “positive” that the target of the odour is present and immediately accessible. If they had any doubts they would not give an alert. EVRD gives an alert by means of a vocal bark. The variations in the vocal alert can be explained by many reasons such as “thirst” or “lack of air due to effort”. Every alert can be subject to interpretation, it has to be confirmed. The signals of an alert are only just that. Once the alert has been given by the dog, it is up to the investigator/forensic scientist to locate, identify and scientifically provide the evidence of DNA, etc.

“Can you confirm if the signal given regarding the stuffed toy corresponds to a concrete alert of detection of a cadaver, or a mere trick played by the dog?”
The dogs were not taught any “tricks”. EVRD “signalled” the toy, which at my request was retained by the Judicial Police for future forensic analysis. I have no knowledge of the results of any forensic analysis on the toy.

“With respect to the cadaver odour on Kate’s clothes, could it be undoubtedly affirmed that those clothes had been in contact with a cadaver?
OR
Could the alert have been given because the clothes had been in contact with other items of clothing, surfaces or objects that could previously have touched a cadaver, thereby allowing the odour to be transferred?”
There is always a possibility of contamination of odours by transferral. EVRD does not make a distinction; he responds with a certain behaviour for which he was trained when he recognizes an odour. He does not identify the reasons for the presence of the odour nor does he identify suspects. Forensic confirmation and specialized investigation methods will determine the reasons and the suspicions. In order to undoubtedly affirm there must be a confirmation of the alert signals made by the dog.

“The dog EVRD also alerts to blood from a live human being or only from a cadaver?
The dog EVRD is trained using whole and disintegrated material, blood, bone tissue, teeth, etc. and decomposed cross-contaminants. The dog will recognize all or parts of a human cadaver. He is not trained for “live” human odours; no trained dog will recognize the smell of “fresh blood”. They find, however, and give the alert for dried blood from a live human being.

“Taking into account the signals of CSI, could the dog alert to other biological fluids?”
The dog that alerts to human blood is trained exclusively for this purpose, and includes its components, plasma, red cells, white cells and platelets. Given the nature of the training, the dog will not alert to urine, saliva, semen sweat, nasal secretion, vaginal secretion or human skin unless these are mixed with blood. The components of blood are approximately:
Red cells 40-50%
Plasma 55% (of which 95% is water)
White cells
Platelets
DNA can only be removed from white cells.
This would suggest that, of the samples signalled by the dog looking for human blood, approximately 5% are available for DNA tests.

“Is there any chance, however remote, of any confusion”
The dogs do not get confused. They transmit a behavioural response inspired by the recognition of the odour for which they were trained.

“How long does a cadaver have to be in contact with a surface or an object for the odour to be detected?”
Cross-contamination is immediate.

“How long can a trace of blood remain at a scene and be detected by the CSI dog”?
During both training and operations, the CSI dog correctly located and signalled the presence of blood from 1960. This is not at all surprising. If enough blood is present so that the dog can recognize its odor, he will locate it and alert to its presence. There is no time restriction as regards the recognition of the odour by the dog. Blood, however, is subject to deterioration such as time and other natural processes such as dilution due to rain and other reactive chemical agents.

“Can the dog mix up traces of human odours with others that are non-human?”
I cannot comment on what the dogs think. However, from a forensic point of view and from confirmations of scientific testimonies, the dogs appear to be extremely exact. But, forensic confirmation is required in all cases so as to be included as proof. The CSI dog is trained using only human blood. And using a wide spectrum of donors to ensure that the dog does not individualize them.
EVRD used to be trained using swine (pigs) as their odour is the closest to that of humans. But most of the time, however, the dog was trained using the odour of a human cadaver. Operationally, the dog has ignored large amounts of animal remains/bones when locating human decomposition.

“Based upon your experience with the dogs, can you specify whether the positive signals given by them have always matched the scientific results?”
I cannot. In this case, for example, not all the alert signals have been investigated by the appropriate agencies in order to provide forensic comparations, in spite of indications to the contrary. It also should be taken into account that the procedures for forensic testing are still less discriminating than the system of dogs’ smell.
During training, the dogs are barely rewarded for positive alert signals regarding targets of known substances.

“At any time, did Gerald McCann address, either in Portugal or the United Kingdom, the performance of the dogs in this case?”
I never met nor spoken to Gerald McCann. However I do know that he addressed my head supervisor at the time, the South Yorkshire Head of Police, or Mr. Meredith Hughes.

This deposition was made by me and is true according to my understanding.

I think the man well and truly knows his stuff

Jennifer wrote:I think the man well and truly knows his stuff

I agree and I dont think you can train both dogs to do exactly as you ask

I never met nor spoken to Gerald McCann. However I do know that he addressed my head supervisor at the time, the South Yorkshire Head of Police, or Mr. Meredith Hughes.



I wonder why he wanted to speak to him then.

Eddie and Keela Report
Inspection of the apartments.

Date: July 31st 2007 - 8pm. Report:

Participants:

PJ: Tavares A. & Ricardo P. Inspectors
UK: Mark Harrison, Martin Grime (UK Forensic Canine P SM Expert),
Eddie & Keela (English Springers)
Silvia B. Manager of the Ocean Club complex.

On that date, inspections were conducted in the apartments occupied by members of the McCann family as well as the group who were with them at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance. It was only on that date that the apartment, identified as that of the parents, was empty allowing further investigation which was authorised by the respective occupants. Thus, at the appointed time, the search with the dogs began, covering the following apartments:

5A:

From 8.30pm to 9.20pm, the dogs go through.
8.20pm: The cadaver dog, "marks," the couple's wardrobe area in the bedroom.
8.22pm: The cadaver dog, "marks" an area behind the sofa in the sitting room near the window overlooking the road.
From 8.47pm to 9.20pm, the blood detecting dog goes through.
8.10 (should it be 9.10?) The dog, "marks" an area of floor behind the sofa in the sitting room, near the window overlooking the road.

5B: 9.24 to 9.27pm: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5D: 9.29 to 9.34pm: The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

5H : 9.35 to 9.38pm : The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

4G : 9.42 to 9.45pm : The cadaver dog did not alert on anything.

Garden belonging to apartment 5A (with access via the balcony and the steps):

9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window.

Date: 01 août 2007 - 06h00

Inspection of the surrounding areas.

Date: August 1st - 6am

After evaluation of the area surrounding the Ocean Club tourist village, based in Praia da Luz, taking account of the characteristic topography of the ground and the distance from where the small child Madeleine McCann disappeared, an inspection was carried out with the help of dogs specialised in the detection of cadaver odour, in various places, such as described:

1 - At 6.40am, an area between the "Piteira" road and the "Oliveira" road, was inspected. At 7.15am the inspection was completed with nothing being detected by the dogs.

2 - At 7.25am, an area adjacent to the "BEIJAFLOR" property on the "Figueira," road, defined by the "Ramalhete" road. An inspection of the whole area was made and nothing abnormal was noted. The inspection was completed at 7.45am.

3 - At 7.55am, an area between the "Casa Azul" residence on the "Figueira" road and the "Casa Pandora" residence as well as a dirt road on the left of the "Figueira" road was inspected by the dogs without anything abnormal being noted. The inspection ended at 8.05am.

4 - At 8.20am, an area between the residences "Casa Pandora" on the "Figueira" road, "Quinta Mimosa" and "Casa Ladeira" without anything abnormal being noted. The inspection ended at 8.40am.

A photographic report of the places inspected is attached.

Initial conclusion.

To the coordinator of the criminal investigation.

Faced with new elements revealed by the dog handling unit's search, attached to the report, and on the basis of Mark Harrison's report, there is every reason to believe that the small child Madeleine McCann died in apartment 5A where she was spending her holiday with her parents at the Ocean Club in Praia da Luz. Following the markings by the cadaver odour detecting dogs and traces of human blood inside the apartment from which the child disappeared, we have done further extensive research, revealing that there was never a death, or a body, notified in this same apartment before. In this report, several places were marked, signalling the presence of cadaver odour and human blood. In addition, we can observe that a cadaver odour was detected in the garden adjacent to apartment 5A. Nothing was detected in the other residences.

It follows from this investigation that there are indications, in practice and in the facts, of the crime of murder such as defined in ArticleQI310 of the Penal Code.

So as to go further with this lead, of which certain results may reveal new evidence, we request authorisation to carry out further inspections, within the legal framework, in two distinct places:

1 - Rue des Fleurs no...The McCann family's current residence in Portugal.
2 - Rented vehicle Renault Scenic, registration ...DA - 27.

We suggest that this inspection is entrusted to the PJ and ask the Public Prosecutor for a 20 day mandate. Thus, we consider that there are indications that consolidate strong suspicions according to which, there are elements of evidence of a crime, inside the vehicle used by the McCann's and, moreover, likely to reveal important details of fundamental importance for the investigation.

Villa rue des Fleurs.


Report:

August 2nd 2007 -6.14pm - 27 Rue das Floras- Praia Da Luz - Lagos

Participants:

PJ: Ricardo P & J. Carlos P., inspectors.
UK: Mark Harrison, Martin Grime & Eddie.

On that date, within the context of a residential search, carried out at the McCann couple's current residence, an inspection by a dog handling team was made. Thus, at the time indicated at the beginning of the report, all areas of the property were inspected and the following results obtained:

6.36pm - The dog Eddie, who detects cadaver odours, "marked" the area of a cupboard in the living room. On checking, the dog was indicating a pink soft toy belonging to Madeleine McCann.
The clothes.


Date: August 2nd 2007 - 11.20pm

On that date, following the home visit made to the McCann's' current residence, on the Rue des Fleurs, various items of clothing were laid out in an appropriate place for this purpose, to carry out an inspection by the dog handling unit.

The collected items of clothing were set out individually with the agreement and under the directions provided by the British technicians, the dogs having previously covered the space where the clothing was laid out.

1 - 11.20pm: Prior reconnaissance of the place by the two canine units to guarantee that the space was clear of all odours being sought. The reconnaissance was completed at 11.30pm without anything being signalled by the dogs.

2 - 11.30pm: An initial inspection by the human blood detecting dog, began with the clothing packed in the box bearing the notation: "Living room." At 11.40pm, the inspection was completed without the dog showing anything abnormal.

11.41: The canine human remains recovery dog started its inspection and "marked" various clothes. The inspection was completed at 11.52pm. The clothes were returned to their box for later use.

From 12.02am until 1.30am, (03/08/07) all the other boxes, containing clothing from the twins' bedroom, from the friends' bedroom, from the bedroom of the couple labelled 1 & 2, as well as the empty luggage, was inspected by the two dogs without conclusive results.

Apartment 5A - OCEAN CLUB

As joinder to the procedure. It is made known and according to superior orders that today at 8pm, specialists from LPC (Police forensics lab) Fernando V. and Lino R., after having seen the recorded images resulting from the inspection by the dog handling unit on 31/07/07 in apartment 5A, duly mandated, proceeded with the collection of whole floor tiles where the dogs used in the inspection indicated the possible existence of traces of human blood as well as the presence of a body in the apartment. The tiles were lifted so as to preserve possible samples to be analysed by the appropriate laboratory. This entire action was filmed in order to illustrate the way in which the lifting was accomplished and with what tools so that the experts had a better idea of the work.

Robert Murat/Casa Liliana

Report:

August 4th and 5th 2007.

Casa Liliana, residence of the suspect Robert Murat, situated on "Ramalhete" road - Praia da Luz - Lagos.

Participants:

PJ: Tavares A., chief inspector, J. Carlos P., Ricardo P, inspectors
UK: Mark Harrison, Martin Grime and Eddie.

On that date, within the context of residential visits, which were carried out at the home of the suspect ROBERT MURAT, an inspection by the dog handling unit was made in the gardens and inside the residence of the accused.

August 4th 2007 - 7.28pm: Start of the inspection of the gardens of the residence. Eddie, human remains recovery dog, covered the whole perimeter outside the dwelling and nothing abnormal was signalled.

August 5th 2007 - 3.22pm: The same dog inspected all rooms of the residence and nothing in particular was signalled.

RUSSELL O'BRIEN

To the coordinator of the criminal investigation.

In the context of the investigation, we have collected information concerning a vehicle used by RUSSELL O'BRIEN, friend and member of the group who spent their holiday with the McCann family in the Algarve . At the time of the request for vehicles considered important to the procedures that follow, we were not aware of the identification details of this vehicle. Meantime, our investigation has led us to establish that it may be a vehicle of the "Opel" range, a "Corsa" model, registration....AG - 62. At the present time, we do not have a mandate to search for and seize the vehicle to allow us to add the vehicle to the planned inspections. As a consequence, we request such a legal mandate in order to be able to realize the planned inspections.

Samples sent to the lab.

Between 3pm on August 4th 2007 and 6.30am on August 5th 2007, the following samples were recovered in the living room of apartment 5A at the OCEAN CLUB where a murder probably took place.

Samples 1A to 3B: recovered on the floor.
Samples 4A to 13B: recovered on the wall.
Samples 14A to 15B: recovered behind the sofa.
Sample 16A: recovered from the blue curtain.
Samples 16B: recovered from the white curtain behind the blue curtain.

All of these elements have been handed over to the Birmingham Forensic Science Services. (FSS)

Samples recovered in the car.

Between August 6th at 9.30pm and August 7th at 4am, the following samples were recovered in the grey Renault Scenic car.

From the driver's side:

1A: Hair
1B: Fibre and hairs
1C: Fibres and hairs
1D: Fingernail

Front passenger side:

2A: Hair
2B: Hair
2C: Fibres and hairs
2D: Fibres and hairs
2E: Fingernail

Between the seats:

3A: Hair

Back seat:

4A: Hair
4B: Fibres and hairs
4C: Fibres and hairs

Centre seat:

5A: Hair
5B: Fibres and hairs
5C: Fibres and hairs

Right-hand seat:

6A: Hair
6B: Fibres and hairs
6C: Fibres and hairs

Luggage compartment (rear boot)

7A: Hair
7B: Fibres and hairs
7C: Fibres

8A: Hair
8B: Fibres and hairs
8C: Fibres and hairs

9, 10 and 11: Hair

12: Car key

13: Control samples of seat fabric

All of these were handed over to Birmingham FSS for analyses.

It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Dogwood wrote:It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Regardless of forensics, the chances of the dogs being wrong in seven paired locations out of an infinity of locations is truly astronomical. Mindbogglingly astronomical.

Taking the circumstances into account for those particular locations I think it's pretty certain that Madeleine is dead and her dead body was in 5A and with the McCanns at some point.

Found this on my 'travels' and think it pretty much sums things up.

Fern wrote:

Dogwood wrote:It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Regardless of forensics, the chances of the dogs being wrong in seven paired locations out of an infinity of locations is truly astronomical. Mindbogglingly astronomical.

Taking the circumstances into account for those particular locations I think it's pretty certain that Madeleine is dead and her dead body was in 5A and with the McCanns at some point.

Found this on my 'travels' and think it pretty much sums things up.

Thats what has made my mind up totally...ok one dog can get it wrong but 2 of them?

NO WAY!

Ambersuz wrote:

Fern wrote:

Dogwood wrote:It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Regardless of forensics, the chances of the dogs being wrong in seven paired locations out of an infinity of locations is truly astronomical. Mindbogglingly astronomical.

Taking the circumstances into account for those particular locations I think it's pretty certain that Madeleine is dead and her dead body was in 5A and with the McCanns at some point.

Found this on my 'travels' and think it pretty much sums things up.

Thats what has made my mind up totally...ok one dog can get it wrong but 2 of them?

NO WAY!

Same here Amber, seeing them in action on the video clearly indicating scents etc was pretty convincing.

Fern wrote:

Ambersuz wrote:

Fern wrote:

Dogwood wrote:It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Regardless of forensics, the chances of the dogs being wrong in seven paired locations out of an infinity of locations is truly astronomical. Mindbogglingly astronomical.

Taking the circumstances into account for those particular locations I think it's pretty certain that Madeleine is dead and her dead body was in 5A and with the McCanns at some point.

Found this on my 'travels' and think it pretty much sums things up.

Thats what has made my mind up totally...ok one dog can get it wrong but 2 of them?

NO WAY!

Same here Amber, seeing them in action on the video clearly indicating scents etc was pretty convincing.

Same here to Fern.No way would 2 dogs make a mistake. When i seen the video of them dogs, it changed my mind for good.

laurie wrote:

Fern wrote:

Ambersuz wrote:

Fern wrote:

Dogwood wrote:It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Regardless of forensics, the chances of the dogs being wrong in seven paired locations out of an infinity of locations is truly astronomical. Mindbogglingly astronomical.

Taking the circumstances into account for those particular locations I think it's pretty certain that Madeleine is dead and her dead body was in 5A and with the McCanns at some point.

Found this on my 'travels' and think it pretty much sums things up.

Thats what has made my mind up totally...ok one dog can get it wrong but 2 of them?

NO WAY!

Same here Amber, seeing them in action on the video clearly indicating scents etc was pretty convincing.

Same here to Fern.No way would 2 dogs make a mistake. When i seen the video of them dogs, it changed my mind for good.

Few things really, firstly the handler couldn't have known where the 'scent' was so impossible to have made Eddie sniff there in the first place, secondly its not as if Eddie walked out of the apartment and had a quick word with Keela where to give an indication and thirdly the areas indicated by Keela did infact lead to a collection of DNA.

Fern wrote:

laurie wrote:

Fern wrote:

Ambersuz wrote:

Fern wrote:

Dogwood wrote:It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Regardless of forensics, the chances of the dogs being wrong in seven paired locations out of an infinity of locations is truly astronomical. Mindbogglingly astronomical.

Taking the circumstances into account for those particular locations I think it's pretty certain that Madeleine is dead and her dead body was in 5A and with the McCanns at some point.

Found this on my 'travels' and think it pretty much sums things up.

Thats what has made my mind up totally...ok one dog can get it wrong but 2 of them?

NO WAY!

Same here Amber, seeing them in action on the video clearly indicating scents etc was pretty convincing.

Same here to Fern.No way would 2 dogs make a mistake. When i seen the video of them dogs, it changed my mind for good.

Few things really, firstly the handler couldn't have known where the 'scent' was so impossible to have made Eddie sniff there in the first place, secondly its not as if Eddie walked out of the apartment and had a quick word with Keela where to give an indication and thirdly the areas indicated by Keela did infact lead to a collection of DNA.

maybe phil was wrong and the dogs can talk

StGerald wrote:

Fern wrote:

laurie wrote:

Fern wrote:

Ambersuz wrote:

Fern wrote:

Dogwood wrote:It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Regardless of forensics, the chances of the dogs being wrong in seven paired locations out of an infinity of locations is truly astronomical. Mindbogglingly astronomical.

Taking the circumstances into account for those particular locations I think it's pretty certain that Madeleine is dead and her dead body was in 5A and with the McCanns at some point.

Found this on my 'travels' and think it pretty much sums things up.

Thats what has made my mind up totally...ok one dog can get it wrong but 2 of them?

NO WAY!

Same here Amber, seeing them in action on the video clearly indicating scents etc was pretty convincing.

Same here to Fern.No way would 2 dogs make a mistake. When i seen the video of them dogs, it changed my mind for good.

Few things really, firstly the handler couldn't have known where the 'scent' was so impossible to have made Eddie sniff there in the first place, secondly its not as if Eddie walked out of the apartment and had a quick word with Keela where to give an indication and thirdly the areas indicated by Keela did infact lead to a collection of DNA.

maybe phil was wrong and the dogs can talk

Hiya St G,

Don't you start giving them ideas, heck thinking of it I don't think I've had to argue that excuse yet

Fern wrote:

Dogwood wrote:It cannot be a coincidence that the dogs didnt find in any of the apartments except for 5A and in the macs car.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Regardless of forensics, the chances of the dogs being wrong in seven paired locations out of an infinity of locations is truly astronomical. Mindbogglingly astronomical.

Taking the circumstances into account for those particular locations I think it's pretty certain that Madeleine is dead and her dead body was in 5A and with the McCanns at some point.

Found this on my 'travels' and think it pretty much sums things up.

Two dogs.
Seven locations indicated.
By both dogs.
And no other places.

Enough said.

that looks like the police are reading forums to see what info they can find.

Good work 3A's