Case Files discussions

Hmmmmm so the police do know Maddie isnt alive anymore!! Or am I confused?

Ambersuz wrote:Hmmmmm so the police do know Maddie isnt alive anymore!! Or am I confused?

Its looks like the police where looking in those tunnels and someone from the 3 Arguidos then came up with that theory but i'm not 100% sure either.

From Matthew Oldfield's statement:

4078 "The first one was, when did you last see Madeleine?”


Reply "Err I’m not quite sure when I last saw her because it depending on whether we had lunch together as a group in David and Fiona’s, which err we may have done on the last day because it got more common as we went through the week but it was more common for the six in terms of the, David, Fiona, already in the apartment of course with Dianne and err Russ and Jane and Grace and Rachael and I to go up there and have lunch as a group than it was to have err the full complete group there at lunch time. Err but it would seem now, it probably wasn’t until the day previously because we’d seen them in the evening after their usual tea so I think on that day, on the final, on the Thursday when we came back up from tennis I’m not sure that Kate and the children err were there outside the tennis court when we arrived because we arrived late and it would have been about bedtime so I can’t specifically recall whether I saw Madeleine at that point, but we sort of arrived, err it wasn’t sort of big groups who were doing the usual sort of chasing games, they may have gone earlier because everybody else of course was still down with our wives, down in the err down at the restaurant on the beach so it would have been quite sort of the same sort of playgroup and they may have, I think they went back and they were gone by the time I got to the tennis courts.”

err err err...the man has the brains of a :Goat:

No disrespect to Paulas goats!

Not one to inspire confidence in the medical profession is he ?

Ambersuz wrote:err err err...the man has the brains of a :Goat:

No disrespect to Paulas goats!

i am very offended with that comparison!

and my goats will not give milk in the next 5 days because of that

MEEEEEEEEEE :Goat:

IS THIS THE ONE THEN RUSSELL, YOU KNOW, JUST TO TRY AND JOG YOUR MEMORY?



Simple enough question, to which the answer should have just been no.

Who is "we"?

"whoever" had one in "our"..."I" didn't "we" erm "we"..."my" searches.."we" got hold of erm Kate's camera..."we" went through those er

If there is one thing this tells me this man has a clear picture in his head of someone else being involved in this process (if it even took place) but he does not want to mention that person and the second question again was so clear and simple, who gave it to you? but he just does not answer, does he!

This is a man who has rambled on to the police for countless hours on two solid days about mind numbing detail and trivia but when he is asked the serious questions, when did you last see Madeleine erm ll months on I cannot really be certain she might have been but I am not sure e.g. at the creche on the afternoon...; and what kind of picture was it erm I have seen so many pictures of her, you know (do forgive me Russell and Dave but from reading you actually I don't) the vital details about little Maddie this is where his memory completely leaves him. Very strange that Russell! So anyway what he is tellling us here, highly incredible though it may seem, is that he or we actually went through Kate's camera, within two hours looking for a picture of Maddie on that holiday but they were just not good enough of her, but, as luck would have it, there was one on there, several weeks old, with slightly longer hair. All within the space of two hours he managed to get a printer and even print it out on normal photograph size paper 6" x 4" and give it to the police. A4 copies of those appearing the next morning which is a lot more believable because it is very easy to just copy a photo, even off a photocopying machine onto normal size paper which is of course A4. What I just find simply incredible is that Kate apparently had a pic of Maddie several weeks old that was just great on her camera, but not one of that actual holiday and Russell (we that is) managed to get it printed up just like a proper little picture. The thing is Russell if you had a printer and you wanted to find Maddie why did you go to all the trouble to just print out normal 6 x 4s?

I know you hate the media I read that but I promise you this much, every few days, I am going to take a piece of your quite incredible statements to the Police (and there are loads) and write a little bit about it, but just to be completely fair, I am going to publish what you said as well, is that OK? I am not the media as such, I am just an ordinary woman who wants justice for a little girl, who you simply cannot remember, apparently, the slightest little detail about, so please bear with me.

Viv x

Second day of grilling at Leicester Police on 10.4.08:

00.18.35 1578 “Did you have any photo of Madeleine in your possession”?
Reply “Erm we got a photo of Madeleine later on but this is two hours later, erm”.
1578 “So who gave it to you”?
Reply “Okay well certain, I’m not quite sure what the, the initial, the question made it sound like whoever had one in our possession anyway, I didn’t, erm we got a, we erm, after a portion of my searches, we got hold of erm Kate’s camera, err looked through the digital cam to try and find a picture of Madeleine reasonably recently, reasonably face on and, and with her being the main, the main character on the photograph, erm clearly that that was going through, there were quite a few pictures that were not ideal, so we, we went through those, err and then printed that off, erm all of this taking a reasonable amount of time to try and get hold of equipment and have offices opened and etc., etc”.
1578 “Okay. What kind of photo was it”?
Reply “The, it was a, it was a photo of err, it was the one that was being circulated in the, in the days immediately afterwards, I’ve seen so many photographs of her, of Madeleine since, I think it was a photograph that had been taken of her and a relatively number of weeks before and I think with a slightly different, slightly longer hair, erm but it was, it was a fa, it was a fa, it was a relatively full on sort of face on photograph, err and it was printed on a standard size erm four by six err inch, as you know, using the equipment that the people had and we ran off a number of copies of this, erm and several I think were given to the, the GNR”.
00.20.21 1578 “I was going to ask you the next question”.
Reply “Sorry”.
1578 “Was, who did you give the photo to”?
Reply “Yeah well I think the ones that I had, I took, you know cos obviously they were printing out, you know they were slow you know, we really wanted to get them to the Police fairly quickly, so I took the first couple of copies and took those round to, I think the GNR staff, I presume they were the origin, you know original uniformed Officers, it wasn’t the PJ, it was well before the PJ arrived, erm there were other copies printed off which I don’t know where they got to but I know that Mark WARNER, somebody in Mark WARNER made a poster, or at least an A4 err saying that there’d been, you know, there’d been a, err an abduction and that Madeleine was missing and that was circulated around the next morning, so somebody had, had, had that photograph and used it for that poster but I took, I don’t know two or three copies maybe and gave them to the Police. I actually think ultimately there may have been more copies printed off and somebody else gave even more copies to them as well, err and I think some of the other copies were shown, were just shown to people around who were going on the searches but erm personally”.
1578 “The copies that you had, you only gave to the Police”?
Reply “I gave it to the Police, just to the Police”.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/A-J-CAMERON.htm

As I cited previously, I have know Madeleine her whole life and saw her on many occasions. I always found her a very smart little girl and careful with strangers. I also saw when she woke after a nap and after a night of sleep. She would occasionally appear irritated as she would when her parents were not present. For this reason, I believe that Madeleine had been awakened by a stranger she would certainly have screamed or cried out. I do not believe that there is any possibility that she would have let a stranger take her without protest.

Mummy, where were you when Sean and me were crying......and then she moved on.

An "irritated" Madeleine, after bawling for an hour and a half. I'm wavering to the crying night again. Whatever happened , where is she?

"For this reason, I believe that Madeleine had been awakened by a stranger she would certainly have screamed or cried out."

Well Sandy - if it wasn't a stranger, it must have been someone she knew ...

http://www.the3arguidos.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=28211

Her grandad said she could have been given some calpol. Does this mean her parents gave it because I cannot see how an abductor would force her to take it without her screaming the whole holiday camp down.

MsTaken wrote:Her grandad said she could have been given some calpol. Does this mean her parents gave it because I cannot see how an abductor would force her to take it without her screaming the whole holiday camp down.

Didn't Mrs. Healy also say that the abductor must have sedated Madeleine in order to be able to abduct her? Mind you, that explanation is at odds with the reconstruction which a ?university professor undertook which showed that there was only something like 6 minutes between the group trotting back and forth doing their checking for an abductor to get in and out of the apartment.

Talk about digging a hole for themselves.

justagrannynow wrote:

MsTaken wrote:Her grandad said she could have been given some calpol. Does this mean her parents gave it because I cannot see how an abductor would force her to take it without her screaming the whole holiday camp down.

Didn't Mrs. Healy also say that the abductor must have sedated Madeleine in order to be able to abduct her? Mind you, that explanation is at odds with the reconstruction which a ?university professor undertook which showed that there was only something like 6 minutes between the group trotting back and forth doing their checking for an abductor to get in and out of the apartment.

Talk about digging a hole for themselves.

It was granny McCann who made the remark about her screaming the place down if a stranger tried to take her. I think Gerry should gag his whole family.

How long would it take to arrive unnoticed, administer a sedative, wait for it to work, remove any traces of ones self in the apartment, gently lift a child from her bed without disturbing the bedclothes, escape through a window and disappear into the night?

justagrannynow wrote:How long would it take to arrive unnoticed, administer a sedative, wait for it to work, remove any traces of ones self in the apartment, gently lift a child from her bed without disturbing the bedclothes, escape through a window and disappear into the night?

You most certainly couldn't act alone, and if you had an accomplice and had to go to all of that trouble why not take more than one child?

justagrannynow wrote:How long would it take to arrive unnoticed, administer a sedative, wait for it to work, remove any traces of ones self in the apartment, gently lift a child from her bed without disturbing the bedclothes, escape through a window and disappear into the night?

And he didnt leave one fingerprint eithr.

Calpol would not have rendered her unconscious. She would have had to have had at least half a bottle and even then she would have vomited first.

There is no way that she was taken out of that apartment by a stranger.

eddie wrote:Calpol would not have rendered her unconscious. She would have had to have had at least half a bottle and even then she would have vomited first.

There is no way that she was taken out of that apartment by a stranger.

Plus that makes an awful mess if a child dosnt open wide when they are spoon fed it. There wasnt any stickyness on the sheets as a far as I remember.

Jacqui67 wrote:

eddie wrote:Calpol would not have rendered her unconscious. She would have had to have had at least half a bottle and even then she would have vomited first.

There is no way that she was taken out of that apartment by a stranger.

Plus that makes an awful mess if a child dosnt open wide when they are spoon fed it. There wasnt any stickyness on the sheets as a far as I remember.

I think a stringer medication was used Jacqui, and most medicines take at least 20 minutes to work. There is no way an abductor is going to wait 20 minutes...

00:53:53 Reply "I think the only thing that probably became apparent about the Millennium where we ate was that that was a distance away from where we were staying and in terms of you know the logistics of getting from where we were to there with the small children and you know the pushchairs when some of them were perhaps a little bit old to go in the pushchair and wanted to walk, which it was just a little bit too far for them to walk. There was the, you know, the main, there’s a main road that you had to cross over which, well it wasn’t busy busy but you know, so that was, you know if there’s any discussion I’d have said that was probably the most you know err that might have been said that night.”
1485 "Yeah.”

Reply "One into the other, whether you know we were at the Millennium but I seem to remember that we would generally go to the Millennium. There was one morning I can recollect that err you know that Kate and Gerry were walking back and found it difficult because Sean and Amelie were, as I say, in the age where they wanted to walk but it was difficult to get them and I think they were, you know generally thinking that the Millennium for breakfast wasn’t probably a particularly a good idea, which you know I think more often than not we generally ate at the Millennium,


Would these be the pushchairs they didn't have ? Oh dear Kate.

justagrannynow wrote:00:53:53 Reply "I think the only thing that probably became apparent about the Millennium where we ate was that that was a distance away from where we were staying and in terms of you know the logistics of getting from where we were to there with the small children and you know the pushchairs when some of them were perhaps a little bit old to go in the pushchair and wanted to walk, which it was just a little bit too far for them to walk. There was the, you know, the main, there’s a main road that you had to cross over which, well it wasn’t busy busy but you know, so that was, you know if there’s any discussion I’d have said that was probably the most you know err that might have been said that night.”
1485 "Yeah.”

Reply "One into the other, whether you know we were at the Millennium but I seem to remember that we would generally go to the Millennium. There was one morning I can recollect that err you know that Kate and Gerry were walking back and found it difficult because Sean and Amelie were, as I say, in the age where they wanted to walk but it was difficult to get them and I think they were, you know generally thinking that the Millennium for breakfast wasn’t probably a particularly a good idea, which you know I think more often than not we generally ate at the Millennium,


Would these be the pushchairs they didn't have ? Oh dear Kate.

Its one excuse after another with this lot, and worse, one LIE after another!

I'd love to be able to :squash: the truth outta them!

justagrannynow wrote:00:53:53 Reply "I think the only thing that probably became apparent about the Millennium where we ate was that that was a distance away from where we were staying and in terms of you know the logistics of getting from where we were to there with the small children and you know the pushchairs when some of them were perhaps a little bit old to go in the pushchair and wanted to walk, which it was just a little bit too far for them to walk. There was the, you know, the main, there’s a main road that you had to cross over which, well it wasn’t busy busy but you know, so that was, you know if there’s any discussion I’d have said that was probably the most you know err that might have been said that night.”
1485 "Yeah.”

Reply "One into the other, whether you know we were at the Millennium but I seem to remember that we would generally go to the Millennium. There was one morning I can recollect that err you know that Kate and Gerry were walking back and found it difficult because Sean and Amelie were, as I say, in the age where they wanted to walk but it was difficult to get them and I think they were, you know generally thinking that the Millennium for breakfast wasn’t probably a particularly a good idea, which you know I think more often than not we generally ate at the Millennium,


Would these be the pushchairs they didn't have ? Oh dear Kate.

But wasnt it proved that they did have pushchairs?

Yes Dogwood, on the McCann Lies thread there are photographs of Kate and Gerry with pushchairs. This statement by David Payne just confirms again that Kate was lying when she said they would have taken the children with them to the Millenium Restaurant if they had had a buggy.

justagrannynow wrote:Yes Dogwood, on the McCann Lies thread there are photographs of Kate and Gerry with pushchairs. This statement by David Payne just confirms again that Kate was lying when she said they would have taken the children with them to the Millenium Restaurant if they had had a buggy.

Blame it on everything and anyone else, bar themselves.
"We didn't take the kids cos of no buggy, no babysitting service etc. blah blah blah". Have they EVER taken ONE OUNCE of responsibility at all, in this whole sorry saga? Seriously?

Have just posted this on the 3As under topic David Payne again. It is a bit too early in the morning to be typing it twice so apologies for the copy and paste xx


Reading the Rogatory inteview of David Payne there are several statements which leave me bewildered, reference to the pushchairs which Kate said they didn't have, photographs printed on the printer in the reception area on paper of a different size, to name just two, but there is this:-

Dianne had err had said, Fiona had asked Dianne to stay at the table, at the Tapas just in case err you know Madeleine wandered by or you know and thought that was the best place

Now, I can't find a source, but I am sure I read somewhere that the entrance door to the MW complex was opened with a swipe card. If that is so, how was Madeleine expected to get to the Tapas bar? Even if there was free acces to that area, why should Fiona think Madeleine would come there ? Is he suggesting that before the McCanns left the children for the night, the scenario went something like,
Kate. " Right Maddie, errm, we are off We have left the patio door open, so if you want anything, err, just let yourself out, down the steps and along the road, errm, you'll find us in the Tapas bar, errm, right then, tarra "

Kate has been emphatic from day 1 that Madeleine could not have left the apartment of her own volition, so what on earth are we to make of this?
This is the man who took it upon himself to refer to the pact and, in effect, told the media it was none of their business.
This is the man who rebuffed offers from a social worker to help an hysterical Kate. A social worker who thought David Payne rang a bell in her memory.
This is the man whose behaviour was the subject of an 8 page statement made to Leicestershire police by two friends of his.
Now we have a police interview which does nothing more than raise yet more questions. No wonder Kate and Gerry have steered clear of the limelight since the lifting of their arguido status and the release of the PJ files. Do they and their holiday companions really expect that these questions will just go away?

STMT SILVA BATISTA, GERRY GOT ON KNEES AS GNR ARRIVED..


Gerry's fund raising Director of Finances, John McCann who promptly gave up his own job to take on the role. Similar personalities, these two brothers, so it would appear! The more studious Michael Wright another major family member and Fund Raiser stands by..observing the gesticulating spectacle





Volume II

Pages 355 - 356

Silvia Maria Correia Ramos Batista

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 11H20
Maintenance Services Director
Portuguese

(Intro deleted)
She is aware of the events that occurred in the Ocean Club resort, having had knowledge of the girl's disappearance, by 22H.30 on 03/05/2007, through
a telephone call from the administrator George Robin Crosland .
She immediately went to the Ocean Club resort where later arrived the GNR. A search started immediately throughout the village. Many residents and employees of OC participated.
On the 03/05/2007 she started working by 09H30, having entered the Ocean
Club through the area of the Club, having walked through the swimming pool area and later having checked the other swimming pools.

During the day 03/05/2007 she did not detect anything unusual or different.
No strange situation was reported to her.
After the events and in conversation with other employees and heads of the Ocean Club, nothing was reported or commented concerning odd situations, such as the presence of strangers close to the resort.
She states that the Ocean Club Resort has no system of video surveillance.
Ratifies and will sign. ..........................


She's here as a witness. She is responsible for maintenance in the Ocean Club Resort located in Praia da Luz - Lagos. Because of her profession she knows many people of the English community, who live in Praia da Luz.
She knows the Morat (sic !) family, who has been there for about 30 years. In particular Mr. Morat and his wife (error mother) Jenny. Mr. Morat was linked to building business and development of tourism enterprises, in Salema in her opinion. Mr. Morat died some years ago.
The Morat live in a house named "casa Liliana", near the Ocean Club.
Asked, she said not to remember whether the Morats have any child.
Asked, she said that on the night when Madeleine McCain (sic...) disappeared (03-05-2007), she was called by her boss, at about at 22:30. As she lives in Lagos she arrived shortly after at the resort. Close to the apartment A-5 of the OC there were already about 60 people to look for the girl.

RE ROBERT MURAT
She remembers, although she is not absolutely certain, given the time already elapsed, that an individual of about 1,70m, short light brown hair, with thin framed and light brown glasses, wanted from the start to help finding the child Madeleine McCann.
She doesn't remember at what time she saw him.
She doesn't remember how he was dressed up.
She doesn't remember who was with him, whether he came walking or in some vehicle. That same individual, she was told later, is the son of Morat, his first name is ROBERT.(So it would appear this is very unfortunate, it was not Murat but she was later told that it was, it would be interesting to know who by, David Payne looks just like him)


Robert speaks fluently English and Portuguese. He helped the GNR of Lagos and later the PJ, translating the testimony of some British persons.
She admits as possible that Paul and June of the bar "Duke of Holland" and Mr. Byron of the firm JNB (management of properties in PDL) should be able to confirm if Robert Murat was there when Madeleine disappeared, and eventually other details.

She states that she spoke for the first time with Robert on Saturday (05-05-2007) or Sunday (06-05-2007) or may be on Monday (07-05-2007), during the breaks between the interviews in which he participated as a translator.
She describes him as a very sympathetic and direct guy. RM was very communicative and extrovert during the conversations they had together. He didn't mention any personal subject.
She ratified and will sign...............................

RE DISAPPEARANCE OF MADELEINE
THIRD PAGE BATISTA
She made already statements concerning this process several times and remembers what she stated earlier, repeating here what the content of previous statements.
She is here because, with the passage of time since Madeleine disappeared she has remembered a few details on the testified facts that she believes may be somehow of interest to the investigation.
As she said earlier she was alerted about the disappearance of Madeleine between 22.30 and 23:00. She was at home and was informed of the event via a telephone call.
She drove immediately to the Ocean Club where she arrived a few minutes before elements of the GNR popped in.
After she arrived she went immediately to the apartment A5 where she found several people inside the apartment and outside of it. (CLEARLY DAMAGING ANY FORENSIC EVIDENCE)

She entered in the flat but soon left without having spoken with anyone, because she was informed that elements of the GNR were in the principal reception. She went there to meet them.
When she came close to the elements of the GNR she found that behind her was
Gerry, Madeleine's father, accompanied by another man whose identity she doesn't remember. Then Geny kneeled down, hit the floor with both hands, positioning himself as if he were a praying Arab, and screamed twice of anger, what he said being impossible to understand. Then Gerry stand up and accompanied her (the witness) and the other man in the car of the GNR to the apartment A5. SO IT WOULD APPEAR GERRY PUT ON A FIT OF HISTRIONICS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE GNR

She entered the apartment and asked for the passports of all elements of the family, and also photographs of the missing girl. She went with Gerry to the GNR car to hand over the requested documents. SO IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH PHOTOGRAPHS OF MADDIE WERE IMMEDIATELY HANDED OVER, HOW COME HE HAD THOSE?

She mentions she did this, as well as other tasks, at the request of the GNR Commandant, because she could translate their questions and the missing girl's family's answers.
She remembers Gerry gave the Commandant of several photographs of the missing girl. They were postcard-like pictures, taking into account their size and shape and seemed all the same to her.


She understood also that since the very beginning either Gerry or the others insisted on stating that Madeleine had been snatched, all using the word "abducted" instead of missing, and all showing much interest in informing the press of the situation.

She also recalls entering in the room where Madeleine should be sleeping and remembers now that the door was closed. The room was dark. The blinds were down, some light entering through their holes. The windows were closed and the curtains slightly open. Gerry, who followed her and the elements of the GNR, said he did close the window because of the babies sleeping in the room, a fact she confirms.
Gerry said that when he discovered the disappearance of Madeleine he noticed that the window and the blinds were open and the curtains fluttering.
She recalls that the beds which were in the middle of the room and used by the babies
were aligned and therefore found it strange that someone had taken Madeleine from the bed where she would be sleeping and had gone to the window because there was no space to pass.
She opened the wardrobes of that room in order to confirm that Madeleine wasn't eventually hiding there.
Then everyone left the room and someone shut the door. She remained for some time in the living room, near the GNR elements, Gerry and other elements of the group
who got in and out and spoke on their cellular phones.

She observed that none of the elements of the group including the father and mother of the child was concerned with looking for her.

The mother was sitting on the bed of her room, the father was with her (the witness) and the elements of the GNR, and other elements of the group got in and out
and spoke on the phone, anxious, in her opinion, to tell the press what happened.

She thought that the child's mother was devastated, the father was worried and
also asked to notify the press and to get dogs to search.
About the others she only remembers that Fiona and her husband, Payne, were hysterical with the situation.


At a certain time, after the arrival of the PJ elements, the parents removed the twins from the beds in which they were still sleeping and took them to the first floor flat.

At the request of Kate she (the witness) to remove their puppets (CUDDLECATS??) drink and a blanket that she took to the first floor flat. Only the mattresses remained.

She wanted to mention that around 3h00 Madeleine's parents asked for a priest to be present. They didn't explain why they wanted a priest but she (the witness) was amazed, because there were no indications that the little girl was dead and only in these circumstances is usually asked the presence of a priest. ONE CAN SERIOUSLY UNDERSTAND GONCALO AMARAL'S THINKING HERE!



At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child. JANE TANNER I PRESUME INTERESTINGLY NO TIME GIVEN, I BELIEVE IF SHE SAW THIS AT ALL IT WAS MUCH LATER THAN 9/15 WHEN SHE WENT TO "RELIEVE" RUSSELL HER PARTNER (IF THAT IS EVEN TRUE) AS SHE SO CHARMINGLY PUTS IT AS WE HAVE SEEN FROM THE STATEMENT OF WAITERS THE WOMEN DID NOT DO CHECKS ON THE CHILDREN THE ONLY PERSON THEY RECALL GETTING UP AND THEN COMING BACK SCREAMING WAS KATE MCCANN


This situation surprised her because she (the witness) was convinced that when the lady saw the man, the lady was in a place from where she had no angle of vision for the place where she saw the man.

She doesn't know exactly what was the position of the lady when she saw the man, but she knows that the lady said she saw the man in the street in front of the Madeleine's bedroom window, walking in the direction of the street that then leads to the Baptista supermarket.


Asked about the way the members of the group were dressed up in that night, she only remembers that Fiona was wearing a green blouse, that Geny was wearing a dark shirt
and the husband of Fiona wearing clear pants, beige she thins.
And more she did not say. Read the self as the thought, ratified and will sign.
Posted by viv at 01:03 78 comments Links to this post

Gerry's 'histrionics', it has been suggested, bore an uncanny resemblance to the officially-approved signal given by Freemasons to other Freemasons if they are in extreme distress. I think this is a very possible explanation for his extreme reaction

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