Case Files discussions
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Re: Case Files discussions
pm Fri 13 Feb - 7:54
Tony Bennett wrote:Gerry's 'histrionics', it has been suggested, bore an uncanny resemblance to the officially-approved signal given by Freemasons to other Freemasons if they are in extreme distress. I think this is a very possible explanation for his extreme reaction
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i have another: contaminate the clothes because of the dogs (he didn´t knew what GNR dog´s could smell)
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Re: Case Files discussions
pm Fri 13 Feb - 7:55
justagrannynow wrote:It is certainly very strange behaviour.
yes, mainly for a person that after show the world that is cold and without emotions!
beg...to a PT person...?????????
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Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Fri 13 Feb - 9:25
justagrannynow wrote:It is certainly very strange behaviour.
Blinking wierdo if you ask me
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Tapas 9 - checking the children
pm Mon 11 May - 20:35
Statements May 4th, 2007:
Kate McCann:
As usual, every half hour, and given that the building is very close, the interviewee and her husband went to make sure the children were OK.
Gerry McCann:
As usual, every half hour and considering that the restaurant was close to the apartment, the interviewee or his wife went to check if the children were OK.
Rachael Oldfield:
After placing their orders, at around 9.15pm, Gerry McCann went to check, only his apartment. He was held up for nearly 10 minutes because, he said, he had been chatting with Jez about tennis. Today there was a tournament which they both had to compete in. During Gerry's absence, the waiters started to bring the food. Jane was also absent to check her apartment. Gerry returned shortly after Jane.
Matthew Oldfield:
That during the meal, it was usual that every 15 minutes (as on all nights) one of the adults went to the apartments to check if the children were sleeping. That normally this checking was done inside the apartments (Visual checking), but that, to be honest, sometimes this checking was only done from the outside, near the bedroom windows (Auditory checking).
Russell O'Brien:
While they were eating, it was normal that every 15 minutes, one person from each apartment went to make sure the children were ok.
Jane Tanner:
Usually, every 15 minutes one person from each apartment went to the respective rooms to make sure everything was OK.
Diane Webster:
However, she reported that Kate and Gerald as well as other couples went a few times, on a regular basis, to make sure their children were OK.
Fiona Payne:
The interviewee states that Kate and Gerry, as well as other couples, went to the club a few times, at regular intervals, to make sure the children were ok.
David Payne:
In answer to our question, the interviewee states that during all the meals, he never went to his apartment or to any of the group's apartments, because he has an, "intercom," and the signal carries from the apartment to the restaurant. The other members of the group went, randomly, every 20 minutes, to their apartments to make sure their respective children were asleep.
Gerry McCann, statement May 10th, 2007:
On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007, as well as he and his wife, he thinks that David Payne also went to his apartment to confirm that his children were well, not having reported to him any abnormal situation with the children. On this day he and KATE had already left the rear door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their colleagues to check on the children.
Russell O'Brien, rogatory interview April 2008:
I actually went into Kate and Gerry’s room, erm, on the Sunday and Matt’s room on the Sunday (...)
On Sunday I recall I checked Kate and Gerry’s apartment as well as Rachael and Matt’s’, that’s true. Erm, I’m not sure about taking their keys, I think I, I think I definitely took Matt and Rachael’s keys, but I entered Gerry’s flat through the patio door”.
(...) “This was just the Wednesday. This is when we stayed, you know, after the meal we stayed in the bar area for a, you know, for a cocktail or something and then, erm, so we were out for a little longer than any of, any of the other nights. And on the, but the way it’s written there it says that I checked the McCann’s apartment, but I think by this part of the week, certainly on my, from my, my own, when I went back I generally went into our apartment and then we’d just have a listen at the shutters on the others”.
Rachael Oldfield, rogatory interview April 2008
1578 “So there was this rigorous checking procedure”?
Reply “Yes, yeah every night”.
1578 “Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday evening”?
Reply “Mmm yeah”.
1578 “And of course Thursday evening”?
Reply “Mmm yeah”.
1578 “So on, on a normal evening”.
Reply “Mmm”.
1578 “How many times would, would yourself and, and Matthew have gone to check on Grace”?
Reply “Erm I suppose, we’d sit at the table about eight thirty, so erm we probably went about two or three times each during the course of the meal, erm yeah, well Sunday night Matt wasn’t there but he was in the apartment with Grace so I didn’t check, Monday night we were both at the table, erm and we just took turns”.
1578 “And did you wear watches”?
Reply “Yes”.
(...)
until the Thursday, we only checked on her own children,
(...)
I mean you know, that, and that was different to the other nights cos you know, we hadn’t done that before you know, that hadn’t been part of the routine, sort of listening, even listening at other people’s windows,
(...)
“And on the Thursday night you know it worked slightly differently and there was much more movement and much more checking than there had been on other nights for some strange reason, I mean not for anything particular but just that’s the way it happened, erm yeah and erm up until that night, each family had only checked on their own children, erm whereas on the Thursday, you know Matt, Matt when and checked on Sean, Amelie and Madeleine, erm you know and that hadn’t happened before”.
Matthew Oldfield, rogatory interview April 2008
“So, erm, back to the table, erm, we have, oh, back to the table, Gerry got up to go and, to go and check on his kids, I mean, and I’d come back and said, you know, I didn’t hear any noise when I listened outside your room, so I thought it was a little bit odd that, you know, not kind of a wounded pride that he sort of didn’t trust me, but, erm, I just thought, oh, you know, I’ve just checked you don’t really need to check and sort of, you know, sort of go back, but, erm, he sort of got up and went back to check on, erm, on his kids.
(...)
4078 “Was that the first time that you had taken it upon yourself to check on somebody else’s child?”
Reply “Yeah, I’d not done it before, it was only because, you know, I was there and I was, and it may not have happened if I’d actually gone in and checked on Grace through the room, you know, I might not have just been next to their shutter in terms of to actually have a listen, you know, I was just there, it was only like four steps further. But, no, I didn’t, even though we now knew each other for the week and I felt a bit more comfortable about their kids knowing me, as I said before, erm, I wouldn’t normally sort of impose that sort of check on somebody else unless they’d, erm, unless they’d suggested it. It’d be almost like a step, not a step too far, but, erm, it’s not really our place to, you know, to do that”.
(...)
And there was me and Russell as well, so, erm, you know, it seemed, at the time, a very reasonable thing to do, even though it was the first time that we’d certainly done it. Also, having somebody else there with me, it sort of felt sort of more, more sort of natural and normal.
(...)
It would have been around that sort of time and the reason I think thirty minutes is because I, I don’t know whether this is memory now or whether it’s since we’ve been talking about it, Gerry said or Kate said, it’s about thirty minutes since the last check, we ought to go, so that’s why I think it’s thirty minutes, erm, because I think that main course would have taken a bit longer because, you know, Russell came back and we started chatting, you know, how’s Evie and all that sort of thing, erm, so, I think he was still eating at the time, so we waited until he’d finished before we went”.
Fiona Payne, rogatory interview April 2008
I think, on the whole, I wasn’t really aware of people cross checking each other’s children, although on the night and previous nights there would have been the odd occasion where somebody was, was, was going and saying ‘Oh I’ve listened in at your door and your kids are fine’ or ‘I’ve checked on yours and they’re fine’, so there was a bit of that going on, but, on the whole, people checked their own children. Erm, and, again, on the actual night Madeleine was taken, that was, was very much different, I think, to, to previous nights, in that, there was probably more cross checking that night”.
(...)
but I’d say on, on the first few nights it all seemed, erm, fairly well spaced, you know, like people going together, that was just a feeling, a general feeling that I’m giving you. Erm, whereas, again, that differed on the Thursday night, in that, it seemed more, erm, out of, people were more out of synch.
David Payne, rogatory interview April 2008
1485 "Did you actually offer to check any of the children? I know you say that you didn’t have to check yours.”
Reply "Yeah, no I never, I never did offer to check.
By Kazlux
Kate McCann:
As usual, every half hour, and given that the building is very close, the interviewee and her husband went to make sure the children were OK.
Gerry McCann:
As usual, every half hour and considering that the restaurant was close to the apartment, the interviewee or his wife went to check if the children were OK.
Rachael Oldfield:
After placing their orders, at around 9.15pm, Gerry McCann went to check, only his apartment. He was held up for nearly 10 minutes because, he said, he had been chatting with Jez about tennis. Today there was a tournament which they both had to compete in. During Gerry's absence, the waiters started to bring the food. Jane was also absent to check her apartment. Gerry returned shortly after Jane.
Matthew Oldfield:
That during the meal, it was usual that every 15 minutes (as on all nights) one of the adults went to the apartments to check if the children were sleeping. That normally this checking was done inside the apartments (Visual checking), but that, to be honest, sometimes this checking was only done from the outside, near the bedroom windows (Auditory checking).
Russell O'Brien:
While they were eating, it was normal that every 15 minutes, one person from each apartment went to make sure the children were ok.
Jane Tanner:
Usually, every 15 minutes one person from each apartment went to the respective rooms to make sure everything was OK.
Diane Webster:
However, she reported that Kate and Gerald as well as other couples went a few times, on a regular basis, to make sure their children were OK.
Fiona Payne:
The interviewee states that Kate and Gerry, as well as other couples, went to the club a few times, at regular intervals, to make sure the children were ok.
David Payne:
In answer to our question, the interviewee states that during all the meals, he never went to his apartment or to any of the group's apartments, because he has an, "intercom," and the signal carries from the apartment to the restaurant. The other members of the group went, randomly, every 20 minutes, to their apartments to make sure their respective children were asleep.
Gerry McCann, statement May 10th, 2007:
On Wednesday night, 2 May 2007, as well as he and his wife, he thinks that David Payne also went to his apartment to confirm that his children were well, not having reported to him any abnormal situation with the children. On this day he and KATE had already left the rear door closed, but not locked, to allow entrance by their colleagues to check on the children.
Russell O'Brien, rogatory interview April 2008:
I actually went into Kate and Gerry’s room, erm, on the Sunday and Matt’s room on the Sunday (...)
On Sunday I recall I checked Kate and Gerry’s apartment as well as Rachael and Matt’s’, that’s true. Erm, I’m not sure about taking their keys, I think I, I think I definitely took Matt and Rachael’s keys, but I entered Gerry’s flat through the patio door”.
(...) “This was just the Wednesday. This is when we stayed, you know, after the meal we stayed in the bar area for a, you know, for a cocktail or something and then, erm, so we were out for a little longer than any of, any of the other nights. And on the, but the way it’s written there it says that I checked the McCann’s apartment, but I think by this part of the week, certainly on my, from my, my own, when I went back I generally went into our apartment and then we’d just have a listen at the shutters on the others”.
Rachael Oldfield, rogatory interview April 2008
1578 “So there was this rigorous checking procedure”?
Reply “Yes, yeah every night”.
1578 “Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday evening”?
Reply “Mmm yeah”.
1578 “And of course Thursday evening”?
Reply “Mmm yeah”.
1578 “So on, on a normal evening”.
Reply “Mmm”.
1578 “How many times would, would yourself and, and Matthew have gone to check on Grace”?
Reply “Erm I suppose, we’d sit at the table about eight thirty, so erm we probably went about two or three times each during the course of the meal, erm yeah, well Sunday night Matt wasn’t there but he was in the apartment with Grace so I didn’t check, Monday night we were both at the table, erm and we just took turns”.
1578 “And did you wear watches”?
Reply “Yes”.
(...)
until the Thursday, we only checked on her own children,
(...)
I mean you know, that, and that was different to the other nights cos you know, we hadn’t done that before you know, that hadn’t been part of the routine, sort of listening, even listening at other people’s windows,
(...)
“And on the Thursday night you know it worked slightly differently and there was much more movement and much more checking than there had been on other nights for some strange reason, I mean not for anything particular but just that’s the way it happened, erm yeah and erm up until that night, each family had only checked on their own children, erm whereas on the Thursday, you know Matt, Matt when and checked on Sean, Amelie and Madeleine, erm you know and that hadn’t happened before”.
Matthew Oldfield, rogatory interview April 2008
“So, erm, back to the table, erm, we have, oh, back to the table, Gerry got up to go and, to go and check on his kids, I mean, and I’d come back and said, you know, I didn’t hear any noise when I listened outside your room, so I thought it was a little bit odd that, you know, not kind of a wounded pride that he sort of didn’t trust me, but, erm, I just thought, oh, you know, I’ve just checked you don’t really need to check and sort of, you know, sort of go back, but, erm, he sort of got up and went back to check on, erm, on his kids.
(...)
4078 “Was that the first time that you had taken it upon yourself to check on somebody else’s child?”
Reply “Yeah, I’d not done it before, it was only because, you know, I was there and I was, and it may not have happened if I’d actually gone in and checked on Grace through the room, you know, I might not have just been next to their shutter in terms of to actually have a listen, you know, I was just there, it was only like four steps further. But, no, I didn’t, even though we now knew each other for the week and I felt a bit more comfortable about their kids knowing me, as I said before, erm, I wouldn’t normally sort of impose that sort of check on somebody else unless they’d, erm, unless they’d suggested it. It’d be almost like a step, not a step too far, but, erm, it’s not really our place to, you know, to do that”.
(...)
And there was me and Russell as well, so, erm, you know, it seemed, at the time, a very reasonable thing to do, even though it was the first time that we’d certainly done it. Also, having somebody else there with me, it sort of felt sort of more, more sort of natural and normal.
(...)
It would have been around that sort of time and the reason I think thirty minutes is because I, I don’t know whether this is memory now or whether it’s since we’ve been talking about it, Gerry said or Kate said, it’s about thirty minutes since the last check, we ought to go, so that’s why I think it’s thirty minutes, erm, because I think that main course would have taken a bit longer because, you know, Russell came back and we started chatting, you know, how’s Evie and all that sort of thing, erm, so, I think he was still eating at the time, so we waited until he’d finished before we went”.
Fiona Payne, rogatory interview April 2008
I think, on the whole, I wasn’t really aware of people cross checking each other’s children, although on the night and previous nights there would have been the odd occasion where somebody was, was, was going and saying ‘Oh I’ve listened in at your door and your kids are fine’ or ‘I’ve checked on yours and they’re fine’, so there was a bit of that going on, but, on the whole, people checked their own children. Erm, and, again, on the actual night Madeleine was taken, that was, was very much different, I think, to, to previous nights, in that, there was probably more cross checking that night”.
(...)
but I’d say on, on the first few nights it all seemed, erm, fairly well spaced, you know, like people going together, that was just a feeling, a general feeling that I’m giving you. Erm, whereas, again, that differed on the Thursday night, in that, it seemed more, erm, out of, people were more out of synch.
David Payne, rogatory interview April 2008
1485 "Did you actually offer to check any of the children? I know you say that you didn’t have to check yours.”
Reply "Yeah, no I never, I never did offer to check.
By Kazlux
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Re: Case Files discussions
Susan Tue 12 May - 20:16
Have I missed it but where in all of this do King Gerry and Queen Kate move their asses and go check on any other children?
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Re: Case Files discussions
Susan Tue 12 May - 20:22
1578 “And did you wear watches”?
Reply “Yes”.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article809852.ece
A source said: “It sounded like they were concerned about timeline inconsistencies. But if you have nine people not wearing watches, it would be suspicious if their times matched exactly.”
Reply “Yes”.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article809852.ece
A source said: “It sounded like they were concerned about timeline inconsistencies. But if you have nine people not wearing watches, it would be suspicious if their times matched exactly.”
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Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Wed 13 May - 9:18
If we, the general public are picking up on all these descrepencies why on earth are the police not seeing it! It's clear that people are lying.......why are they getting away with this?
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Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Wed 13 May - 9:22
Wasn't Matthew Oldfield the one who went back for the Cutting Edge thingy and read the book titles during his check on the McCann children.
Apart from reading them in the dark, is he now saying he read them through the apartment walls?????
Apart from reading them in the dark, is he now saying he read them through the apartment walls?????
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Index of Official Files & Statements & other interesting info.......
pm Wed 27 May - 18:53
Index of Official Files & Statements
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/index-of-official-files-statements.html
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/index-of-official-files-statements.html
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Re: Case Files discussions
Susan Wed 27 May - 18:58
Thats excellent Paula!!Look at this:
Kate and Gerry 'Secret' Accounts: A Matter of Non-Reciprocity
The British authorities received two requests to provide financial information about the parents of Madeleine but the answers never arrived to the PJ
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Re: Case Files discussions
Susan Wed 27 May - 19:22
David wrote:David Payne has 7 credit cards!!!!!!! 2 Loans!!!
Hmmm well that is odd but his wife seems to be the one who isnt good at repaying back....
But can you believe the Mccanns didnt have a bank account? Does Gerry get his wages in cash? Do they pay their mortgage in cash?
What was he doing at the cash machine where his wallet got stolen at? Was he looking to see if he could rob it?
I think they are liars! But I always did
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Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Wed 27 May - 19:29
I'll have to read this tomorrow.
Off to watch the footie match now
Off to watch the footie match now
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Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Wed 27 May - 20:49
Ambersuz wrote:David wrote:David Payne has 7 credit cards!!!!!!! 2 Loans!!!
Hmmm well that is odd but his wife seems to be the one who isnt good at repaying back....
But can you believe the Mccanns didnt have a bank account? Does Gerry get his wages in cash? Do they pay their mortgage in cash?
What was he doing at the cash machine where his wallet got stolen at? Was he looking to see if he could rob it?
I think they are liars! But I always did
Are you seriously telling me they have NO bank accounts???? That is not possible!
Guest- Guest
Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Thu 28 May - 6:18
Ambersuz wrote:David wrote:David Payne has 7 credit cards!!!!!!! 2 Loans!!!
Hmmm well that is odd but his wife seems to be the one who isnt good at repaying back....
But can you believe the Mccanns didnt have a bank account? Does Gerry get his wages in cash? Do they pay their mortgage in cash?
What was he doing at the cash machine where his wallet got stolen at? Was he looking to see if he could rob it?
I think they are liars! But I always did
The police are lying about the bank accounts.
Guest- Guest
Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Thu 28 May - 6:32
I thought at first that the Paynes had 7 cards between them with Fiona having a card on her husbands account, but if he pays his off on time and she doesn't, they must have 14 cards between them. That is incredible.
There is no way the McCanns have no bank accounts or credit cards. As someone who has attempted to make an hotel reservation I can confirm that they will only accept a credit card.
I feel so sorry for the PJ who struggled so hard against all this opposition.
There is no way the McCanns have no bank accounts or credit cards. As someone who has attempted to make an hotel reservation I can confirm that they will only accept a credit card.
I feel so sorry for the PJ who struggled so hard against all this opposition.
Guest- Guest
Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Thu 28 May - 6:36
justagrannynow wrote:I thought at first that the Paynes had 7 cards between them with Fiona having a card on her husbands account, but if he pays his off on time and she doesn't, they must have 14 cards between them. That is incredible.
There is no way the McCanns have no bank accounts or credit cards. As someone who has attempted to make an hotel reservation I can confirm that they will only accept a credit card.
I feel so sorry for the PJ who struggled so hard against all this opposition.
Payne could have booked the holiday on one of his credit cards but even so why does anyone need 7 cards? That in itself sounds dodgy.
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Re: Case Files discussions
Pabby Thu 28 May - 17:55
It says on that statement that records of bank accounts are not automatically kept. They're only recorded if they are credit checked. If the Mc's don't have any credit cards then they won't have a record of a bank account if you see what I mean. It doesn't mean they haven't got bank accounts at all.
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Re: Case Files discussions
Susan Tue 2 Jun - 20:21
Pabby wrote:It says on that statement that records of bank accounts are not automatically kept. They're only recorded if they are credit checked. If the Mc's don't have any credit cards then they won't have a record of a bank account if you see what I mean. It doesn't mean they haven't got bank accounts at all.
Whether he has a credit or debit card he must have a bank account....
"The thief struck soon after Gerry, 39, arrived in the UK on Tuesday for a meeting with lawyers, after he withdrew money from a cash machine at London’s Waterloo. The pickpocket snatched the black leather wallet containing £100 from his back pocket"
Thursday June 21,2007
By Padraic Flanagan in Praia da Luz
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/2jun7/21-06-07-Express-Transcript1.htm
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Re: Case Files discussions
Pabby Wed 3 Jun - 18:26
Ambersuz wrote:Pabby wrote:It says on that statement that records of bank accounts are not automatically kept. They're only recorded if they are credit checked. If the Mc's don't have any credit cards then they won't have a record of a bank account if you see what I mean. It doesn't mean they haven't got bank accounts at all.
Whether he has a credit or debit card he must have a bank account....
"The thief struck soon after Gerry, 39, arrived in the UK on Tuesday for a meeting with lawyers, after he withdrew money from a cash machine at London’s Waterloo. The pickpocket snatched the black leather wallet containing £100 from his back pocket"
Thursday June 21,2007
By Padraic Flanagan in Praia da Luz
http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/2jun7/21-06-07-Express-Transcript1.htm
That's what I was saying Amber.
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Re: Case Files discussions
Christine Thu 6 Aug - 11:30
Sorry for this late reaction, but as I was going through all the posts I found this one very intresting.
It puzzles me that every 15 minutes somebody was checking the children, without watches .... If that is true, it's a miracle that they didn't run each other over with these checkings...... And indeed Amber, why didn't King Gerry and Queen Kate do the checking on the other children as well, but only on their own?
And as Kate states, their regular checkings only left a very small window of opportunity for the abductor. They had to say it was every 15 minutes because they didn't want to be accused of child neglect, but of course that reduced the window of opportunity.... I guess they had to make a choice as to what was the most important.
It puzzles me that every 15 minutes somebody was checking the children, without watches .... If that is true, it's a miracle that they didn't run each other over with these checkings...... And indeed Amber, why didn't King Gerry and Queen Kate do the checking on the other children as well, but only on their own?
And as Kate states, their regular checkings only left a very small window of opportunity for the abductor. They had to say it was every 15 minutes because they didn't want to be accused of child neglect, but of course that reduced the window of opportunity.... I guess they had to make a choice as to what was the most important.
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Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Thu 6 Aug - 11:45
Hi Christine.
According to their statements, when Matthew Oldfield offered to do Kates check for her, he offered to check on Madeleine. Why only Madeleine? Why not " the children", particularly as he states that he didn't see Madeleine when he checked because of the bedroom door. He only saw the twins.
According to their statements, when Matthew Oldfield offered to do Kates check for her, he offered to check on Madeleine. Why only Madeleine? Why not " the children", particularly as he states that he didn't see Madeleine when he checked because of the bedroom door. He only saw the twins.
Last edited by justagrannynow on Thu 6 Aug - 11:56; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Case Files discussions
Christine Thu 6 Aug - 11:54
justagrannynow wrote:Hi Christine.
According to their statements, when Matthew Oldfield offered to do Kates check for her, he offered to check on Madeleine. Why only Madeleine? Why not " the children"? Particularly as he says he only saw the twins, couldn't see Madeleine because of the bedroom door.
I can only think of one reason he would check only on Madeleine..... because Kate talked to the group about Maddies remark that morning : why didn't you come when we were crying last night....
Of course, if Matthew told them he saw Madeleine and she was fine, the abductor theory wouldn't stand anymore. If he would have said he didn't see her, he should have raised the alarm right away.... I think everything had to be geared around the 10 o'clock missing, and they probably didn't have time to get their story straight into the details...
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Re: Case Files discussions
Guest Thu 6 Aug - 13:29
Christine wrote:Sorry for this late reaction, but as I was going through all the posts I found this one very intresting.
It puzzles me that every 15 minutes somebody was checking the children, without watches .... If that is true, it's a miracle that they didn't run each other over with these checkings...... And indeed Amber, why didn't King Gerry and Queen Kate do the checking on the other children as well, but only on their own?
And as Kate states, their regular checkings only left a very small window of opportunity for the abductor. They had to say it was every 15 minutes because they didn't want to be accused of child neglect, but of course that reduced the window of opportunity.... I guess they had to make a choice as to what was the most important.
Their reputation obviously meant more to them than saying they left their children wide open for someone to come along and take them. They also cared nothing about other harm that could befall their children in that apartment.
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