Case Files discussions

Christine wrote:I found this on drugging children :
Drug Reactions
It is possible for your child to have a reaction to any medication that he takes, including over the counter medicines. To help prevent drug reactions, you should not medicate your child unnecessarily (especially overusing antibiotics for viral illnesses).
Adverse reactions or side effects to taking medications can include allergic reactions, with hives, wheezing, and or difficulty swallowing (activate your emergency services immediately), or your child may have a non-allergic reaction, including vomiting, irritability, lethargy, or diarrhea. Consult your doctor if you think that your child is having a drug reaction.

Wasn't O'Brian child vomiting? Didn't the Oldfield children have diarrhea every morning? Makes me wonder if they al drugged their children.

Hi Christine, hope you're well

I think the children that were ill on this holiday had nothing to do with drugs or the case about maddie.
I do however, think that the Mcs gave something stronger to Maddie as she had woken up cryign the night before. I think she had a bad reaction and possibly a heartattck/airwaves closed....They would not have wanted to call emergency services after her death as they knew an autopsy would reveal drugs in her system which children are not supposed to take.

viv wrote:It seems rather odd that Mr Smith says he saw Gerry just before ten, Russell gets back to the dining table just before ten, and Kate supposedly raises the alarm at 10. Too many coincidences for me. In real life without any pre planning you do not get such immaculate coincidences of time. Given I feel Gerry is quite a control freak, I think he would have wanted things to go off like clockwork. Just to dissuade us a little from that idea, he gets his paid mouthpiece who now seems to have fell out of favour to tell us they had no mobiles and watches. That makes it even more extraordinary I never did see Gerry without a watch on, and I saw him even standing in the sea with his trusty mobile

With these reports of different search times its almost as if there were two searches going on ,but why was one to distract ,was it to confuse.Don't know like a majician your watching one hand whats the other doing.

Viv, IMO Gerry tried to get Maddie out of the apartment when he bumped in to Jeremy Wilkins. He put Maddie in the bushes (hence the dogs cadaver smell), talked to Wilkins, and took Maddie back in the apartment when Wilkins was out of sight. I think the original plan was to get rid of the body around 9. Plans had to be changed then, but Jane Tanner didn't know that. Maybe that's when the first search started, but was quickly silenced.

Hi Christine

Do you remember those pictures of Rebelo and his men at the rear of the patio area, trying the patio door to see if it would open from the outside and a fairly hefty one jumping up and down on the boards of the patio area. I read the police were particularly interested in a service void underneath that area.

If Maddie did die in the apartment, perhaps by the act of Kate or Gerry in the period around 6 to 7.30 (given there are so many tall stories around that time including Payne supposedly seeing Maddie but later retracting that) it does seem possible that the body would have been placed behind the sofa which is right by the exit patio door to the rear patio area. Of course there is another patio door to that patio in Kate and Gerry's room also. It also seems possible, as you say, that Gerry was wanting to remove the body earlier in the evening. I remember Claudia confirming a long time ago, that 9 was the time when it went very dark. It also seems possible that Gerry would have noted the service area underneath the patio as a place to put the body. It is certainly possible that was what he was about and put it there when he saw Wilkins. I always found Gerry's comment, he had never noted anyone in the area at night before, very telling. Shucks just when I really do not need to see anyone.

I have read quite a lot about the dogs etc. Scent forms cones and pools in certain areas according to wind direction etc. If Maddie was placed under the patio it is possible the scent moved and was caught by the foliage. This is why the dogs sniff the air, they are picking up the scent but trying to locate where it comes from, sometimes they cannot precisely locate the source if the body is no longer there. That seemed to be what was suggested at the scenting in the bedroom, Grime was saying the definite hit was in the living room behind the sofa. But I think we cannot escape the fact that when you read the final reports of the PJ etc, they are seriously calling into question the markings of the dogs and asking could Eddie just be alerting to putrefying blood. It was certainly accepted in Sept 07 the police had insufficient evidence to actually prosecute the McCanns and that is why I am happy to keep an open mind and look at other options as to what may have happened.

A bad reaction to drugs given when they were preparing her for bed, is one of those irresistible possibilities. And of course, post mortem, no way!

viv wrote:Viv, IMO Gerry tried to get Maddie out of the apartment when he bumped in to Jeremy Wilkins. He put Maddie in the bushes (hence the dogs cadaver smell), talked to Wilkins, and took Maddie back in the apartment when Wilkins was out of sight. I think the original plan was to get rid of the body around 9. Plans had to be changed then, but Jane Tanner didn't know that. Maybe that's when the first search started, but was quickly silenced.

Hi Christine

Do you remember those pictures of Rebelo and his men at the rear of the patio area, trying the patio door to see if it would open from the outside and a fairly hefty one jumping up and down on the boards of the patio area. I read the police were particularly interested in a service void underneath that area.

If Maddie did die in the apartment, perhaps by the act of Kate or Gerry in the period around 6 to 7.30 (given there are so many tall stories around that time including Payne supposedly seeing Maddie but later retracting that) it does seem possible that the body would have been placed behind the sofa which is right by the exit patio door to the rear patio area. Of course there is another patio door to that patio in Kate and Gerry's room also. It also seems possible, as you say, that Gerry was wanting to remove the body earlier in the evening. I remember Claudia confirming a long time ago, that 9 was the time when it went very dark. It also seems possible that Gerry would have noted the service area underneath the patio as a place to put the body. It is certainly possible that was what he was about and put it there when he saw Wilkins. I always found Gerry's comment, he had never noted anyone in the area at night before, very telling. Shucks just when I really do not need to see anyone.

I have read quite a lot about the dogs etc. Scent forms cones and pools in certain areas according to wind direction etc. If Maddie was placed under the patio it is possible the scent moved and was caught by the foliage. This is why the dogs sniff the air, they are picking up the scent but trying to locate where it comes from, sometimes they cannot precisely locate the source if the body is no longer there. That seemed to be what was suggested at the scenting in the bedroom, Grime was saying the definite hit was in the living room behind the sofa. But I think we cannot escape the fact that when you read the final reports of the PJ etc, they are seriously calling into question the markings of the dogs and asking could Eddie just be alerting to putrefying blood. It was certainly accepted in Sept 07 the police had insufficient evidence to actually prosecute the McCanns and that is why I am happy to keep an open mind and look at other options as to what may have happened.

I was thinking on similar lines.

Laffin Assasin wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1563090/Madeleine-McCann-died-from-overdose.html

still there, not retracted , not sued upon !!!!!!

The McCanns are simply not prepared to challenge such a damning report in what is undoubtedly one of our most reputable papers. That does speak volumes and lends a lot of credence to the suggestion that report is correct and the McCanns would not wish to argue the toss in court. Having said that, newspapers nearly always just give in, regardless of the rights and wrongs, due to the astronomical costs in UK. I hope this is something the Select Committee will deal with, because those draconian threats of costs are clearly the way Carter McFuck like to do business for their erm illustrious money grabbing liars, erm yes clients.

halfamo wrote: I'm wondering where Gerry was heading when he bumped into Wilkins.I keep going back to reports that the alarm was raised before 10pm ,was'nt there a report that says Gerry was seen in the pool area searching before 10pm.What if he was'nt on his way back to the Tapas.

https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/general-mccann-questions-and-chat-f55/when-was-the-alarm-raised-t5689.htm?highlight=when+was+the+alarm+raised

Jeronimo Rodrigues Salcedas, a Barman at the Tapas Bar, said in his statement of the 6th May 2007 that he noticed Diane Webster sitting alone around 10.20 to 10.30pm. He also saw Gerry McCann searching the bushes around the pool area. Unusually amongst the Ocean Complex staff, this witness was interviewed a second time on the 23rd April 2008 by Leicestershire police. On this occasion he placed the time when Gerry was searching around the pool area between 21.30 and 22.00hrs.

Helder Luis, Receptionist on duty 3rd May was told about 9.30pm that a child had disappeared.
Stephen Carpeneter and his wife left the Tapas Bar around 9.15-9.30 to walk back to their apartment. On the way his wife heard someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine"
Chef Arlindo Peleja was on duty in the Tapas Restaurant. Around 21.20hrs he heard a "clamour" and was told a child had disappeared.
Finally there is the Smith family who left Kellys Bar at 9.55pm-10pm and saw a man later identified as Gerry carrying a child in the direction of the beach.

The complete statements are in the Statements section.

Thanks Justagran

Clearly Leicester Police are especially interested to know exactly what Gerry McCann was doing that night and at what time. He quite obviously was the one who removed little Madeleine.

I have always felt that Russell sitting back down at the table that night was a signal to Kate and that Gerry was not at the table at that time, he was just returning from getting rid of Madeleine. He was then merged into the search for Madeleine with a deliberate big confusing rush around created to cloud the impression of witnesses as to who was where and at what time. He prides himself on being a fit jogger, I wish him a coronary.

Dimsie wrote:The drugging thing is of interest, definitely. Fiona Payne said in her rogatory interview:

'she(Kate) kept putting her hands on the twins to check they were breathing,'

So why would Kate do that? If anyone thought their children could have been sedated by an intruder they'd hardly wait to see if they'd stop breathing, would they? That would be foolhardy in the extreme. They'd be off to hospital asap to have the children checked out properly and where equipment would be available if needed.

So, why didn't Kate do so? What was she waiting for - a twin to stop breathing?

No, makes no sense, this idea of suspecting the twins were drugged by an intruder.

Could it be that they had drugged all three and lost one because of it? Was Kate McCann fearful that they might lose one or both of the twins in the same way... Through overdosing?

Drugs are commonly used on abused children! Well known fact and they (drugs) could have been used on those kids. Madeleine may have seen or heard too much and she also may have been abused too and that is why she was crying. It will all come out. The Mcs and their accomplices will let slip. One good thing about all this media stuff is that somewhere along the line someone is going to ask a question they were not expecting.

I could never understand why the Mccanns refused to have the twins tested for drugs, surely in such a case not only would you not refuse you would absolutely insist on having them tested. I sure as hell would want to know if my children had any kind of drug used on them.

Absolutely mara. Any other parents would do anything possible to find out what happened. This would include drug testing and any other testing in the apartment, straight away. It is a wonder the twins have not been removed from that couple too. No wonder clothing or other items were removed from the apartment before the alarm was raised. If Madeleine died of a drug overdose there must have been great panic. She could have been injured too.

Sorry to interupt someone has just twitted mccanns spotted at glasgow airport? Dont know how true it is

I can't help but think that Sean was a witness to what happened - and although he will by now have been convinced it never happened -The McCanns must always be wary wondering 'if' he will ever have memory re-call.............. all JMHO

Statement by: Stephen Markley

Occupation: Police Officer

This statement (composed of 2 pages and signed by me) is true and in accordance with my understanding.

Date: 25th April 2008
Signature____________________________________________________


I am police officer Markley of the Leicestershire Police currently working in the criminal unit.

In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of family communication officer.

According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:

Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described tothe Portuguese investigators?

My reply to the question was: No.

However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.

One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine’s revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.

They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.

This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.


This is very damning to the McCanns, straight away they are wanting to get in the fact that knew the police would have found evidence of them previously leaving the children and wanting to use it to their favour to suggest a stranger abduction, but they are clearly lying about the night in question, to bring it more proximate to Maddie actually going missing. As we now know, the suggestion being mooted is utterly far fetched, he was in there doing a dummy run.

Kate and Gerry have always made it pretty obvious that quite naturally enough, they are very concerned about evidence the police are obtaining against them. So, they want to know, have the police turned up any evidence of Maddie being drugged. This is just two nights later, their guilty consciences about drugging their chldren and what the police may found out is causing them to operate a high risk strategy (G McCann)

I think Gerry was supposed to have messed with and sorted the shutters so that they could claim that an abductor had broken in. What went wrong was Jez Wilkins stopping for a chat. Gerry possibly didn't get a chance to let Kate know that this part of the plan hadn't been carried out, possibly because they weren't sitting next to each other in the Tapas, or possibly because they weren't communicating very well after Kate's feeling that he had ignored her on another evening. So, Kate goes ahead with her raising of the alarm, and opens the window from the inside later, hence her fingerprints on the window. I think someone was supposed to make those shutters look like they'd been jemmied, but it didn't happen.

Statement by: Stephen Markley

Occupation: Police Officer

This statement (composed of 2 pages and signed by me) is true and in accordance with my understanding.

Date: 25th April 2008
Signature____________________________________________________


I am police officer Markley of the Leicestershire Police currently working in the criminal unit.

In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of family communication officer.

According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:

Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described tothe Portuguese investigators?

My reply to the question was: No.

However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.

One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine’s revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.

They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.

This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.

laci wrote:Sorry to interupt someone has just twitted mccanns spotted at glasgow airport? Dont know how true it is

Has anyone confirmed this, or have you got a link ?

Can some one check what flights were available at the time this was posted ?

Laffin Assasin wrote:

laci wrote:Sorry to interupt someone has just twitted mccanns spotted at glasgow airport? Dont know how true it is

Has anyone confirmed this, or have you got a link ?

Can some one check what flights were available at the time this was posted ?

Captured at 8am -> tweeted 7pm 1st Nov

Chartered flights include Antalya, Arrecife, Faro, Arrecife, Monastir, Rovaniemi, Sharm el Sheikh, Tenerife. Turin

Scheduled more problematic - does not fly to East Midlands; Faro departs 17.45; Dublin 15.25; Manchester 18.35 and others........

If this prooves to be accurate then Faro seems the most likely destination ,so do any Portuguese have contacts the airport over there to check it out when the plane lands ??

Could they have been flying TO Glasgow?

[quote="halfamo"]I'm not sure where i'm going with this just thinking aloud ,but maybe something went wrong ,best laid plans etc.Because in one sense there is a plan,then you have contradictions in their and the T7 statements.I think something went bums up but what i have no idea. AA[/quote]

Halfamo, I too have always believed your theory of a plan that went wrong.
I am certain that I read somewhere that someone within the Tapas area on the night made a comment something like.
" It was not suppose to happen like that"

I stand to be corrected, but I think one of the waiters claims to have heard it

jjp wrote:Could they have been flying TO Glasgow?

Could this have been the private trip to PDL?

Excellent point there viv!

Christine wrote:

viv wrote:It seems rather odd that Mr Smith says he saw Gerry just before ten, Russell gets back to the dining table just before ten, and Kate supposedly raises the alarm at 10. Too many coincidences for me. In real life without any pre planning you do not get such immaculate coincidences of time. Given I feel Gerry is quite a control freak, I think he would have wanted things to go off like clockwork. Just to dissuade us a little from that idea, he gets his paid mouthpiece who now seems to have fell out of favour to tell us they had no mobiles and watches. That makes it even more extraordinary I never did see Gerry without a watch on, and I saw him even standing in the sea with his trusty mobile

Viv, IMO Gerry tried to get Maddie out of the apartment when he bumped in to Jeremy Wilkins. He put Maddie in the bushes (hence the dogs cadaver smell), talked to Wilkins, and took Maddie back in the apartment when Wilkins was out of sight. I think the original plan was to get rid of the body around 9. Plans had to be changed then, but Jane Tanner didn't know that. Maybe that's when the first search started, but was quickly silenced.

Interesting thread

Just thought I'd throw this in here as you've made reference to the EVRD dog detecting something in the garden area / flower bed .

With respect to the garden area of apartment 5A, tourist resort "OCEAN CLUB", Praia da Luz, Lagos:

- 1 labelled envelope with delivery note n' 420D/2007-CR/L:
Vestigio:
Vg25 - "Sundry head-hair" - 11 hairs.

1 Garden Ocean(Vg25

The GBSF were responsible for the analysis of hair samples .

The sample / evidence - ( 1 labelled envelope with delivery note n° 420D/2007-CR/L: ) ref. Vg25 , 11 hairs , found in the garden area of Apt5A appear to have disappeared just like Madeleine !!! There is no other reference to this sample that I can find in the files.
They also took samples of the bush / shrubbery for analysis .