Re: Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais

**T4two** Tue 1 Dec - 17:10

Claudia79

Which is exactly why I suggested that anyone not satisfied with any translations would do them themselves, starting 2 and half years ago.
There are two reasons why I haven't done many translations about this case. The first one is that when I translate I expect to be paid. Very well paid, as a matter of fact. The second one is that I knew for sure that sooner or later I would be criticised by pros and even antis. Being well paid and being criticised is acceptable. Working for free and being criticised is a no no to me. As Amber has said before when people moaned about the way she dealt with issues in this forum, I have no intention of providing a service for free, sacrificing my life, my family and friends and be slagged off for it.
As a translator, in this field the word 'innacurate' is the kind of thing that could end up resulting in a PhD thesis.
Obviously just a personal opinion too. One which I am entitled too whether people agree with it or not.

Well said! Agree 100% including your policy of not engaging with 'Pros'.

**Claudia79** Tue 1 Dec - 17:24

T4two wrote:Claudia79
Which is exactly why I suggested that anyone not satisfied with any translations would do them themselves, starting 2 and half years ago.
There are two reasons why I haven't done many translations about this case. The first one is that when I translate I expect to be paid. Very well paid, as a matter of fact. The second one is that I knew for sure that sooner or later I would be criticised by pros and even antis. Being well paid and being criticised is acceptable. Working for free and being criticised is a no no to me. As Amber has said before when people moaned about the way she dealt with issues in this forum, I have no intention of providing a service for free, sacrificing my life, my family and friends and be slagged off for it.
As a translator, in this field the word 'innacurate' is the kind of thing that could end up resulting in a PhD thesis.
Obviously just a personal opinion too. One which I am entitled too whether people agree with it or not.

Well said! Agree 100% including your policy of not engaging with 'Pros'.

Thanks, T4two.
I've had enough time to see what the results of engaging with the 'pros' are so I choose not to. It's just a personal choice, nothing more.
As for the rest, I've done translations about this case for free too. But only when I felt they were absolutely necessary (when the book was published), when specific people related to this case asked me for help because they thought it was important and also translated some personal important correspondence (when asked, of course) for people who are not fluent in English or Portuguese and who needed to reply to important e-mails, for instance. But I would never be able to do the amount of work Joana and Astro do for free and sacrifice myself in that way. I'm not generous enough.

Guest Tue 1 Dec - 17:27

Claudia79 wrote:I would have translated it the exact same way. Inverted commas, footnote, parenthesis, whatever you want. Simply using the word owns without adding anything would imply that Mr Amaral owns the house which is fully paid and that there are no mortgages or payments to be made to the bank. That is how I would have translated it. If anyone paid me to do so, of course.

But that is what the article states - that he owns the house. So that is what the translation should clearly state.

Any comment about actual ownership should NOT be allowed to change the meaning of the original.

**Claudia79** Tue 1 Dec - 17:41

jjp wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I would have translated it the exact same way. Inverted commas, footnote, parenthesis, whatever you want. Simply using the word owns without adding anything would imply that Mr Amaral owns the house which is fully paid and that there are no mortgages or payments to be made to the bank. That is how I would have translated it. If anyone paid me to do so, of course.

But that is what the article states - that he owns the house. So that is what the translation should clearly state.

Any comment about actual ownership should NOT be allowed to change the meaning of the original.

In your opinion.
I was taught never to translate something I know to be wrong, false or misleading, without alerting to it (footnote, parenthesis, neon lights, whatever). And that is the way I have always done it and will continue to do so. I was also taught to always explain the meaning of certain things which I perceive as being hard for readers to understand (happens a lot with cultural aspects) instead of only translating it. Which is why translations contain translators' notes which don't exist in the original.
So no, I don't agree with you.
And now, I'm going to translate. And be paid for it which is always a good incentive. Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais - Page 2 25346

Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais - Page 2 25346

Guest Tue 1 Dec - 17:46

Claudia79 wrote:
jjp wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I would have translated it the exact same way. Inverted commas, footnote, parenthesis, whatever you want. Simply using the word owns without adding anything would imply that Mr Amaral owns the house which is fully paid and that there are no mortgages or payments to be made to the bank. That is how I would have translated it. If anyone paid me to do so, of course.

But that is what the article states - that he owns the house. So that is what the translation should clearly state.

Any comment about actual ownership should NOT be allowed to change the meaning of the original.

In your opinion.
I was taught never to translate something I know to be wrong, false or misleading, without alerting to it (footnote, parenthesis, neon lights, whatever). And that is the way I have always done it and will continue to do so. I was also taught to always explain the meaning of certain things which I perceive as being hard for readers to understand (happens a lot with cultural aspects) instead of only translating it. Which is why translations contain translators' notes which don't exist in the original.
So no, I don't agree with you.
And now, I'm going to translate. And be paid for it which is always a good incentive.

Oddly, you may think, I agree with you.

You should alert to the error in the original, if you believe that there is any such error. I have said repeatedly that such an alert should be made in a comment or in some other clear way.

That does not give the translator any right to change the text of the translation, though, without making it clear that there has been a change. Simply adding inverted commas does NOT indicate that there is an error, it conveys a completely different meaning to that which the author intended. That is NOT acceptable in the translation work that I do.

**T4two** Tue 1 Dec - 17:55

jjp wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I would have translated it the exact same way. Inverted commas, footnote, parenthesis, whatever you want. Simply using the word owns without adding anything would imply that Mr Amaral owns the house which is fully paid and that there are no mortgages or payments to be made to the bank. That is how I would have translated it. If anyone paid me to do so, of course.

But that is what the article states - that he owns the house. So that is what the translation should clearly state.

Any comment about actual ownership should NOT be allowed to change the meaning of the original.

jjp I can see exactly what you mean but what one should bear in mind is that the translator is working for nothing and it's a big job to do for nothing. Also the translators are not native speakers. If you bear this in mind then you'll no doubt agree that they're pretty good. I am a freelance translator for German into English and I do nothing else except German into English which is into my native language. If I was aked or volunteered to translate English into German I would not be able to do it perfectly even after more than 30 years because I am not a native speaker of German. If I did it and spent hours of my time doing it only to be criticised on a public forum at the end of it I think I'd be pretty p****d off about it too.

**kitti** Tue 1 Dec - 18:04

'Own' doesnt HAVE to mean you OWN something OUTRIGHT.

I OWN my flat but i HAVENT paid for it outright.

When i am asked a question whether i OWN or RENT a place......well i obviously OWN a place as i dont RENT a place.

I KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT ANYWAY lol Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais - Page 2 613255

Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais - Page 2 613255

**Claudia79** Tue 1 Dec - 18:11

jjp wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:
jjp wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I would have translated it the exact same way. Inverted commas, footnote, parenthesis, whatever you want. Simply using the word owns without adding anything would imply that Mr Amaral owns the house which is fully paid and that there are no mortgages or payments to be made to the bank. That is how I would have translated it. If anyone paid me to do so, of course.

But that is what the article states - that he owns the house. So that is what the translation should clearly state.

Any comment about actual ownership should NOT be allowed to change the meaning of the original.

In your opinion.
I was taught never to translate something I know to be wrong, false or misleading, without alerting to it (footnote, parenthesis, neon lights, whatever). And that is the way I have always done it and will continue to do so. I was also taught to always explain the meaning of certain things which I perceive as being hard for readers to understand (happens a lot with cultural aspects) instead of only translating it. Which is why translations contain translators' notes which don't exist in the original.
So no, I don't agree with you.
And now, I'm going to translate. And be paid for it which is always a good incentive.

Oddly, you may think, I agree with you.

You should alert to the error in the original, if you believe that there is any such error. I have said repeatedly that such an alert should be made in a comment or in some other clear way.

That does not give the translator any right to change the text of the translation, though, without making it clear that there has been a change. Simply adding inverted commas does NOT indicate that there is an error, it conveys a completely different meaning to that which the author intended. That is NOT acceptable in the translation work that I do.

But we're not talking about just inverted commas, are we? After that the information that comes between brackets explains very well why the word owns is placed between inverted commas. That is quite clear to me. If other people agree with me or not, it is their right. I am fully satisfied with the translation. Have no problems whatsoever with people who think they can do a better job, especially if they are professionals. And I'm pretty certain Joana and Astro would feel the same way, especially if it meant they could be alleviated from a bit of work.

**Claudia79** Tue 1 Dec - 18:11

T4two wrote:
jjp wrote:
Claudia79 wrote:I would have translated it the exact same way. Inverted commas, footnote, parenthesis, whatever you want. Simply using the word owns without adding anything would imply that Mr Amaral owns the house which is fully paid and that there are no mortgages or payments to be made to the bank. That is how I would have translated it. If anyone paid me to do so, of course.

But that is what the article states - that he owns the house. So that is what the translation should clearly state.

Any comment about actual ownership should NOT be allowed to change the meaning of the original.

jjp I can see exactly what you mean but what one should bear in mind is that the translator is working for nothing and it's a big job to do for nothing. Also the translators are not native speakers. If you bear this in mind then you'll no doubt agree that they're pretty good. I am a freelance translator for German into English and I do nothing else except German into English which is into my native language. If I was aked or volunteered to translate English into German I would not be able to do it perfectly even after more than 30 years because I am not a native speaker of German. If I did it and spent hours of my time doing it only to be criticised on a public forum at the end of it I think I'd be pretty p****d off about it too.

It goes beyond that, IMO.
What is being expected from these people who have been translating everything that is published about this case for the last two and a half years is not only that they do it quickly and for free but also that they do it like they are professionals. And now I ask: do people know if they are professionals? Do people now if before this whole sorry mess they earned their lives as translators? To be honest, I wouldn't just be pissed off. I would give them the finger. If I was generous enough to do what they have been doing for the last 2 and a half years, of course. Which I'm clearly not.

**T4two** Tue 1 Dec - 18:34

I think you can always have a question concerning a translation whether you are a paying customer or not but I do not think a public forum is the right place to air it. I don't think anyone would take exception to being asked to explain a point on which someone was not clear but this could be done with a private message for example. For my part I cannot praise the translators enough for the effort they have always been ready to put into this task and I have enjoyed reading their translations ever since this case began. Without their translations I wouldn't know even half of what I do now and certainly wouldn't have had the opportunity to read alternative views and interpretations of what has been happening; that is how important their work is for me and I'm certain that the majority of posters would agree.

MilkyWay Tue 1 Dec - 19:24

Well said T4two, without their selfless work many of us would be left with Antonella Lazzeri.

Guest Wed 2 Dec - 1:44

MilkyWay wrote:Well said T4two, without their selfless work many of us would be left with Antonella Lazzeri.

I can't put my finger on it, but you remind me of someone I've come across in the past. Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais - Page 2 306321

Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais - Page 2 306321

MilkyWay Wed 2 Dec - 11:39

Hi Laffin, who knows we might have crossed paths in our past lives, pleasantly surprised Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais - Page 2 83453

Madeleines parents seek to extort the sum of 1.2 million, JdN and Joana Morais - Page 2 83453

sans_souci Wed 2 Dec - 13:59

Getting back to one of the original questions for a moment, that of legal aid.

http://ec.europa.eu/civiljustice/legal_aid/legal_aid_por_en.htm#1. is interesting in that it provides a readable guide to the process.

Sections 3, 4, 7 and 15 are interesting with regard to non disclosure of assets.

**Alpine Aster** Wed 2 Dec - 19:56

weissnicht wrote:
Schnuffel wrote:No amount of money is of any consequence in the Kingdom Of Heaven when those that really seek to hide the Truth Of The Lie will ultimately have to answer & pay for their sins. Whoever seeks to hide the Truth Of The Lie may God have mercy on your wretched souls. Amen
For them is just McKingdom and nothing else exist.

Hi Weissnicht hope you are well, I miss McKingdom good to see you.

The King sat at his desk where the candle light flickered looking at the cold cobbled floor, the King thought to himself I will tell the World that the Queen and I, and the Pink Jester are going back to the fair land of Portugal for a private visit and the Queen want's to be where we last saw Matilda, the World believe's everything I say of course he thought in his deluded mind, but we are going to the Court really to pretend that we have suffered and to get more Guinea's, the Queen is high maintenance and the Castle need's to be paid for.
To be continued.......

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