Iraq.................

Panda wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1315410/us-strikes-isis-artillery-in-northern-iraq

It is harrowing to see the Reporting , all these people with only the clothes they are wearing , driven to climb up to Mountains, cases of fathers killing their children as an act of mercy. What a mess the Middle East is in and who can really do anything, the UN is just a talking shop.

Unfortunately Panda, you are quite right. The UN is a toothless tiger much like the League of Nations became. We all know how that turned out.

Remember all these terrorist groups don't care who they kill, or how many. If they are infidels they are destined for everlasting hell fire, but if you are one of the boys paradise is assured.

IS is probably the most vicious of them all, they were kicked out of al Queda for extremism, which is a bit of an oxymoron. Their leader al Baghdadi is in his own way quite cunning. he has declared his caliphate which many many Muslims want to see the return of. he has given himself the name of al Quraishi which links him with their prophet since he was of the Quraishi tribe. Even the "sermon" wearing the traditional black had significance in Islam.

Their own extreme violence seems to be working for them. Knowing how violent they are, and their love of killing, both the civilian and armed forces are melting away before them and they are taking over without a fight.

They have to be stopped, and unfortunately I can see only one way of doing it.

I can't see any way out katertaif, there are so many factions that the Western World simply can't keep pace with what is gong on . With hindsight it was a big mistake invading Iraq, Afghanistan is another example of the interference making matters worse. Truth to tell we will never understand the ways of the Middle East.

Panda wrote:I can't see any way out katertaif, there are so many factions that the Western World simply can't keep pace with what is gong on . With hindsight it was  a big mistake invading Iraq, Afghanistan is another example of the interference making matters worse. Truth to tell we will never understand the ways of the Middle East.

It isn't so much the Middle East we fail to understand. It's a medieval religion that is in itself founded on fear, and has steadfastly refused to modernise in any way.

A few hundred years ago what the adherents of these twisted versions of Islam are doing now, was quite normal for other religions. The Crusades, The Inquisition (not only the Spanish one) Christianity changed and adapted, partly because there was no choice in the matter, I agree but nevertheless modernised. Islam has not. Not in much of it's dogma, and these terrorists who disagree with mainstream Islam do so sometimes by the definition of a single verse in the Qur'an. They still retain the beliefs of the main stream, but carry the rest of it to the nth degree, which strangely always boils down to killing.

The penalty for apostasy is death
The penalty for being gay is death
The penalty for adultery is death

These and more were also the beliefs of other faiths. In Islam they still are.

Islam was originally spread at sword point, a conquered people were given three choices. Accept Islam, become a Dhimmi and pay the Jizya which amounts to protection money, or face death. That persisted right up to the gates of Vienna when Western superiority (in weaponry) turned the tide. remember Islam stifles invention it does not encourage it. Everything that is happening now is western technology bought with oil money. The status quo remained for some time. Now the oil enables them to buy western technology, from the rockets Hamas fires at Israel to Iran's nuclear weapons programme. This has been coming for a few decades now Panda and still many of our leaders refuse to accept what is staring them in the face.

The Middle East is a cauldron and for the 100 rich there are 1000 poor, but the rebels are not fighting for a better way of life for all are they, they are fighting for power for themselves and their religious beliefs. The problem is, there are so many splinter groups and ISIS expanding it's power.......who is going to stop them??? The West holds no sway over these terrorists , .they will bow to no one .

ISIS HAS SEIZED MOSUL DAM AND US HAS LAUNCHED SOME AIRSTRIKES.

Panda wrote:The Middle East is a cauldron and for the 100 rich there are 1000 poor, but the rebels are not fighting for a better way of life for all are they, they are fighting for power for themselves and their religious beliefs. The problem is, there are so many splinter groups and ISIS expanding it's power.......who is going to stop them??? The West holds no sway over these terrorists , .they will bow to no one .

Good afternoon panda

Yes they are fighting for power for themselves. The motivation that has caused most wars throughout human history. Religion, and good old "gimme" accounting for the rest.

As for who will stop them? personally I believe that ultimately we will have to. They are not going to stop of themselves are they? It is possible that some of the more moderate Islamic states could get together, but that is highly unlikely. The ones that could are fairly extreme themselves. The ones who are not are not strong enough.

That doesn't leave much in the way of alternatives. I believe, just as Hitler and his Nazis did there will be a land grab too far. There has to be. The alternative is what these extremists want, a Global caliphate. Then they can split, and fight among themselves just as they did when Mohammed died, as to who that Caliph will be. Already the so called al Nusra brigade are at loggerheads with IS over just that question.

Afternoon katerfait, I don't think Britain should get involved, for the hundreds of British Soldiers who died in iraq, what was achieved???? Look at Afghanistan , another huge loss of life. As I write , just announced that thousands of Yazidi Women and children are being kidnapped for sex.
The Woman discussing this is a member of an Iran Political organisation and says the US and Britain should go to Iraq and sort it out since they were the ones who created this mess. She is right, and what exactly has made thing better for Iraqis???

We did not create the mess in Iraq Panda it already was a mess.  Nothing can put it right because it is full of murdering, raping extremists the same as Afghanistan.  Even the Russians could do nothing with Afghanistan.   I for one think we should leave the lot alone.  If we go in again exactly the same thing will happen again.  There is nothing we can do. I am sick to death of the murdering b*****ds   All we can do is give some aid to the poor innocents.  I hope other countries do likewise.

I can remember having a discussion way back with a woman from Iraq and a lot of them wanted rid of Sadam. Unfortunately, what's taken his place (which was always obvious) is something worse.

The US, aided by the UK, helped create one hell of a mess because there was no plan for what would happen afterwards. There's nothing you can do for countries where religion allows you to murder someone of a different religion, all in the name of religion...if you see what I mean!  

Yes I know what you mean Angelina. Yes Sadam was a murdering tyrant but had some sort of control.  You are right getting rid of him made it worse but it was always terrible for the people living there, they have always had an awful life.

I have just seen the news and saw them dropping aid to those poor people on the mountain.  A little boy clung to the helicopter, he did not let go and they hauled him in.  The men inside the helicopter were crying because of the poor desperate people.   I was crying as well.  No doubt everyone was.    What kind of a religion is this that they can do this to innocent people?

IT IS BEING SAID ISIS HAS EXECUTED CHRISTIAN CHILDREN.
ISIS SAID TO BE IN GAZA.

Badboy wrote:IT IS BEING SAID ISIS HAS EXECUTED CHRISTIAN CHILDREN.
ISIS SAID TO BE IN GAZA.

Sadly, Badboy, that should come as a surprise to nobody. Yet there are STILL people who wish to deny the Israelis the right to defend themselves against these evil people. Suppose they do destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. Would they be satisfied with that? Would they hell, they'd be here next and none of you can say you weren't warned.

fuzeta wrote:We did not create the mess in Iraq Panda it already was a mess.  Nothing can put it right because it is full of murdering, raping extremists the same as Afghanistan.  Even the Russians could do nothing with Afghanistan.   I for one think we should leave the lot alone.  If we go in again exactly the same thing will happen again.  There is nothing we can do. I am sick to death  of the murdering b*****ds   All we can do is give some aid to the poor innocents.  I hope other countries do likewise.

I am sure Obama will not send troops in Fuzeta, the Americans would not tolerate it, neither would we if Cameron wanted to send anything more than food and water. I think our invasion of Iraq was intended to overthrow a Dictator but at least he had control over his Country. The World really is in chaos , it's like Armageddon and those poor people who fled up to the Mountain can only rely on aid for survival.

Badboy wrote:IT IS BEING SAID ISIS HAS EXECUTED CHRISTIAN CHILDREN.
ISIS SAID TO BE IN GAZA.

Women, children old men are all the same to terror groups like IS. Young women well that's a different matter. They don't care who they kill, or how many. It seems nothing can satisfy their blood lust.

from all accounts many thousands have already died, and hundreds of thousands displaced. Puts Israel's operations into perspective a little. At least they re defending themselves, and doing everything they can to minimise innocent casualties. IS are just killing for the sake of it.

After the first few, we seem to be hearing no more of so called British and Europeans in their ranks. At the very least they should not be allowed back into their respective countries

katertaif wrote:

Badboy wrote:IT IS BEING SAID ISIS HAS EXECUTED CHRISTIAN CHILDREN.
ISIS SAID TO BE IN GAZA.

Women, children old men are all the same to terror groups like IS. Young women well that's a different matter. They don't care who they kill, or how many. It seems nothing can satisfy their blood lust.

from all accounts many thousands have already died, and hundreds of thousands displaced. Puts Israel's operations into perspective a little. At least they re defending themselves, and doing everything they can to minimise innocent casualties. IS are just killing for the sake of it.

After the first few, we seem to be hearing no more of so called British and Europeans in their ranks. At the very least they should not be allowed back into their respective countries

Good afternoon katertaif.
I think I'm right in saying that the actions of IS are about on par for terror groups. The West Side Boys in Sierra Leone were of the same ilk and both the Hutus and Tutsis committed heinous crimes in Rwanda. They (IS) are little more than an armed mob and in reality the Iraqi army should have stopped them earlier in their campaign of murder and raping instead of running away.

Any IS members who reurn here to the UK claiming they are British should be tried in the Hague as war criminals and not given the protection of the UK government.

PERHAPS `CALIPH' IBRAHAM/BAGHDADI NEEDS A MISSILE TO PERMANETLY REMOVE HIM FROM THE SCENE.

Badboy wrote:ISIS SAID TO BE IN GAZA.

Yes, I read that a while ago.
This is exactly why Israel cannot open its boarders with Palestine. (sorry off topic)

wjk wrote:

Badboy wrote:ISIS SAID TO BE IN GAZA.

Yes, I read that a while ago.
This is exactly why Israel cannot open its boarders with Palestine. (sorry off topic)

wjk , The post I started was meant to be about ISIS and the way they came to power but for some reason it didn't work . They really are barbaric , killing and then putting the victims' head on a railing. Apparently they operated from Syria for a long time, now they are in Iraq, have a fortune in cash and recruiting everywhere. What happens next s anyone's guess , the World really is a mess.

ISIS MAKE HAMAS AND ALQAEDA LOOK LIKE MOTHER THERESA.

wjk wrote:

Badboy wrote:ISIS SAID TO BE IN GAZA.

Yes, I read that a while ago.
This is exactly why Israel cannot open its boarders with Palestine. (sorry off topic)

It's not off topic. It's all connected.

ISIS USING MENTALLY HANDICAPPED TO FIGHT.

KURDISH FORCE HAVE RECAPTURED TWO TOWNS FROM ISIS.

FILIPINOS ULTRAS ARE FIGHTING IN IRAQ,IT IS ALSO BEING SAID THAT DEFECTIONS FROM ALQAIDA ARE STRENGTHING ISIS.