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TRIAL OF VINCENT TABAK BEGINS 4/10/11

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Post  Krisy22 Mon 17 Oct - 13:58



This morning in court.




Vincent Tabak said he strangled Joanna Yeates for 20 seconds after she screamed when he put his arm around her, a court has been told.

Extracts from Tabak's defence statement were read out to a jury for the first time at Bristol Crown Court.

Tabak claimed he initially put his hand over her mouth to stop the screams, Nigel Lickley QC said.

Dutch engineer Tabak, 33, admits Miss Yeates's manslaughter, but denies her murder in Bristol last December.

Miss Yeates, from Ampfield in Hampshire, suffered 43 injuries at her flat in Clifton, Bristol, on 17 December.

Her body was found on a roadside verge on Christmas Day.

The court heard he applied no more than moderate force on a scale of one to three but did not intend death or serious injury and accepted his actions were unlawful.

Mr Lickley, prosecuting, asked pathologist Russell Delaney about Tabak's statement that he held Miss Yeates's throat "for about 20 seconds".

Dr Delaney replied: "That period of time would be sufficient to cause the signs of venous obstruction and would be long enough to result in her death."

Earlier, Dr Delaney told the court that Tabak may have used one hand to strangle her.

In reply to Vincent Tabak's QC William Clegg, he said he "cannot exclude the use of one hand".

Mr Clegg asked whether it would have been impossible for Miss Yeates to scream as her neck was being squeezed.

Blood found

"That would depend on the nature of the neck compression," Dr Delaney replied.

The lawyer asked again if her injuries were consistent with being strangled with one hand.

"Or two, yes," Dr Delaney said.

Blood found on Miss Yeates's pink T-shirt may have been deposited after her death, the pathologist added.


Tabak lived next door to Jo Yeates Mr Clegg asked Dr Delaney whether the fact that Miss Yeates's body was frozen could have affected the number of injuries on her body.

Mr Clegg said: "The effect of the formation of ice crystal artefacts in the body could result in the appearance of injury when, in fact, there was no injury before death?"

Dr Delaney replied: "In this case the injuries I have identified, in my opinion, occurred during death."

Pressed again by Mr Clegg, Dr Delaney accepted that "under some circumstances, yes", the formation of ice crystals in the body could appear after death occurred.

Mr Clegg also asked how a third post-mortem examination - which was carried out by defence expert witness Dr Nat Carey - noted a fractured thyroid horn in Miss Yeates's neck was not in Dr Delaney's report.

"No, because in my examination it did not appear to be broken," Dr Delaney told the jury, adding he was confident the break was not seen during the post-mortem examination.

Mr Clegg asked: "So it might be that either you missed it or you and Dr White managed to break it during your or his subsequent post-mortem?

"Are you able to confirm to this jury on oath that that thyroid horn was not broken when you conducted the first post-mortem?"

Dr Delaney replied: "It did not appear broken to me."

He explained that the fracture could have been there before death and became more pronounced during the post-mortem examinations or that it happened afterwards.

The case continues.
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Post  Panda Mon 17 Oct - 16:36

Not Born Yesterday wrote:I find it hard to read anything by Barbara Ellen since her comments about the McCanns.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/08/kate-mccann-ed-miliband-cheryl-cole

Apologies if it's been posted here before but I'm a newbie.

Appalling biased journalism, the so-called quality newspapers are no better than the tabloids.

Hi Not Born Yesterday, I agree with Barbara Ellen"s criticism about JO"s Flat on display to the public, it seems a new dpearture for Jurors to
visit the crime scene, but it should never have been released to the Press. As regards the McCanns, another blinkered pro-mcCann who
obviously has not read the PJ Files.
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Post  fred Mon 17 Oct - 17:10

Not Born Yesterday wrote:I find it hard to read anything by Barbara Ellen since her comments about the McCanns.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/08/kate-mccann-ed-miliband-cheryl-cole

Apologies if it's been posted here before but I'm a newbie.

Appalling biased journalism, the so-called quality newspapers are no better than the tabloids.

Not seen that before, but yes, i totally agree with you. She is sticking to Team Mccann rules and writing total bollox about something I would like to bet she hasn't read any of the PJ or GB police files?
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Post  Guest Mon 17 Oct - 17:30

I have a relative who is a freelance journalist and he can't believe how so many of his colleagues have come up with such biased stories. It's their responsibility to make as many enquiries as they can to ensure that their stories are balanced so that would definitely mean looking into the police files. Also, just their years of experience should tell them that there is a lot more to the story than meets the eye.

Lest anyone thinks that only female journalists come out with such garbage take a look at this. Have a sick bucket to hand.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1384977/Kate-McCanns-haunting-account-makes-me-rue-day-I-doubted-them.html

He had previously written an article in 2007 (no longer available) in which he had doubts about their story.

One wonders if he was sent on a refresher course to make sure he toed the party line in future!
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Post  Panda Mon 17 Oct - 17:54

Not Born Yesterday wrote:I have a relative who is a freelance journalist and he can't believe how so many of his colleagues have come up with such biased stories. It's their responsibility to make as many enquiries as they can to ensure that their stories are balanced so that would definitely mean looking into the police files. Also, just their years of experience should tell them that there is a lot more to the story than meets the eye.

Lest anyone thinks that only female journalists come out with such garbage take a look at this. Have a sick bucket to hand.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1384977/Kate-McCanns-haunting-account-makes-me-rue-day-I-doubted-them.html

He had previously written an article in 2007 (no longer available) in which he had doubts about their story.

One wonders if he was sent on a refresher course to make sure he toed the party line in future!

I think the British Press gave up a long time ago trying to do any investagitive Journalism, all their Owners care about is ever decreasing
Sales. After seeing the cost to the Express, no Editor wants to upset the McCanns , although it was rumoured that Tony Blair was willing
to give the O.K. to a deal the Express was involved in so long as Desmond did not contest the case.
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Post  Wintabells Tue 18 Oct - 1:03

Seems noteworthy that Jo was 'dreading' spending the weekend alone. I can't help but wonder if she had some kind of unease about being alone in that flat, hence her texts to various friends asking what they were up to that evening. 'Where are you this fine evening?' she texted Samuel Huscroft, 'Where art thou?' to Peter Lindsell and 'Matt, are you out tonight?' to her brother's friend. These were all sent, it seems, on her way home from the Ram. I don't know if it's significant that most of her texts were to men.... maybe she felt she needed to be protected from someone?

I wonder why Jo's boots would be in the middle of the hall floor - perhaps she was trying to put them on quickly and get out of there and was prevented from doing so?

It's a very strange scenario and I cannot begin to imagine how the people who heard the screams and ignored them must be feeling.
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Post  Panda Tue 18 Oct - 1:24

Surely if Jo didn"t like being on her own she could have gone to her Parents for the week-end? also, I do wonder why her boyfriend did not
take her with him to his Parents, living together is like being married, you get to know each others Families. We really know very little about Jo,
why phone Male Friends, why not Female? Did she invite Tabak in to the Flat? We might get an entirely different picture when Tabak gives evidence.

Don"t get me wrong, I am not excusing what Tabak did and his cold blooded actions afterwards.
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Post  Wintabells Tue 18 Oct - 2:21

I guess they couldn't leave the cat on his own for the weekend and perhaps couldn't take him with them if they both went away.

In this article, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2048622/Vincent-Tabak-trial-Pictures-Joanna-Yeates-drinking-night-died.html it's noted that Jo's last texts were somehow a bit out of character...

...Mr Lindsell said in his statement: 'I thought this was an odd comment because she was referring to my BBQ in April 2009. I cannot think why she would make that comment.'

...A statement from Matthew Wood, who was a school friend of Miss Yeates' older brother Chris, was also read out to the court.

.... Mr Wood said it was rare for him and Miss Yeates to contact each other by text message as they usually communicated by Facebook. However, at 8.26pm he received a text from her, which said: 'Matt, are you out tonight?'

I guess we'll maybe hear more over the coming days which may make sense of Jo's last movements, but these texts almost sound like she was trying to signal (subtly) that she needed help.
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Post  Panda Tue 18 Oct - 2:52

Hi Wintabells,

,If Jo was able to text, why not text the Police ? Tabak obviously did not know who she was texting, on any of those text messages Jo could have said, "Call Police". It doesn"t make sense actually, because she could have texted one of her workmates that she had been drinking with.

It sounds to me as if she was feeling lonely.....no text to the Boyfriend?
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Post  chrissie Tue 18 Oct - 9:35

Hi Panda, she sent the texts before she encountered Vincent Tabak. She may have been feeling lonely or uneasy for some reason but she would have had no reason to raise any alarm at that point.
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Post  Panda Tue 18 Oct - 9:49

chrissie wrote:Hi Panda, she sent the texts before she encountered Vincent Tabak. She may have been feeling lonely or uneasy for some reason but she would have had no reason to raise any alarm at that point.

Thanks chrissie, I thought she also had texted a girl friend asking her to go out, it must have been the call to the Guy. Tabak is certainly
not making the case for manslaughter is he! If you didn"t mean to kill someone, would you phone the Police and explain what happened or
do what Tabak did, put the body in the boot of his car and dump it miles away and act normally? I think the Murder charge will stick.
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Post  Wintabells Tue 18 Oct - 18:08

Tabak's statements to the police don't really make much sense. For all we know, he bumped into Jo on her journey home (whilst he was taking photographs of the snow) and she was just texting anyone she could think of to avoid chatting to him...or something.
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Post  Panda Tue 18 Oct - 18:18

Wintabells wrote:Tabak's statements to the police don't really make much sense. For all we know, he bumped into Jo on her journey home (whilst he was taking photographs of the snow) and she was just texting anyone she could think of to avoid chatting to him...or something.

I"m sure Jo would not have invited Tabak into her Flat if she was suspicious of him. Although she didn"t know him well she had had a few drinks,
bought a Bottle of Cider or Beer to drink at home and innocently invited him to have a drink and maybe share the Pizza.
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Post  wjk Tue 18 Oct - 22:44

Wintabells wrote:Tabak's statements to the police don't really make much sense. For all we know, he bumped into Jo on her journey home (whilst he was taking photographs of the snow) and she was just texting anyone she could think of to avoid chatting to him...or something.

This was one of my theories long ago, that they met on her way home. Maybe he tried to invite himself in? Pushed his way in?
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Post  Wintabells Wed 19 Oct - 1:37

Sometimes it can be very difficult being assertive. If it's the next door neighbour, he's polite and respectable, says he's feeling a bit down because his g/f's out for the night...let's have a beer and a chat... etc. It's quite hard to say 'erm...actually, no thanks, you could be a murderer'. If you're caught on the hop and you've already said something like, 'I'm just staying in tonight' it's really not that easy to get out of what's being offered as a social chit chat over a quick drink. There's the business of not wanting to cause offence....not wanting to seem rude or offish etc.

Imagining he was in her flat for quite a while and she couldn't think how to get rid of him, perhaps Jo was already at home when she texted those people in the hope they'd come round and then Tabak would leave? (although the description of events suggests she texted as she walked home). But if she was already in Tabak's company, she may have felt a bit dramatic texting someone with the request 'please come over NOW...I've got a bloke in my flat I can't get rid of'. And how would texting her b/f be any good? he was miles away and she may have worried he'd not understand how she'd got into this position in the first place. Women don't tend to call the police simply because they're being pestered, and if the guy is in the flat, there's the fear he'll become aggressive if he suspects this is going on. Calling the police is often the last thing people want to do.

I can easily imagine this scenario when I think about it. My next door neighbour (old bloke) locked himself out of his house one night and rang my bell. I've known this guy for over 20 years - he's a bit of a drunk and when he tried to explain the situation I was amazed when he said 'You'll just have to put me up'. And before I knew it, he was inside the front door. As it happens, I don't live alone, but if I did... and he was a maniac as well as a bit of a lush... well.... it could have been potentially a really dangerous situation.

Sorry for all this speculation, but Tabak's lack of plausible information leaves so many questions unanswered.

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Post  Guest Wed 19 Oct - 1:51

I wonder if he was the unnamed neighbour who, along with the landlord who was questioned by the police early on, helped Jo's boyfriend to get his car started before he left for the weekend. If he was, he knew that Jo would be on her own, his own partner was also away and possibly he engineered a meeting later that evening.

I don't think that the texts were suspicious; it sounds to me as if Jo just wanted some company other than the cat.

A very sad case indeed.
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Post  chrissie Wed 19 Oct - 13:09

So Tabak is to take the stand tomorrow morning. His defence have said she was lonely,invited him in having caught sight of him through the kitchen window. He went in took off his coat, had a chat, she offered him a drink, she was just being friendly, he misread her signals and went to kiss her then accidently killed her......................all in the space of 4 MINUTES. Yeah right............
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Post  Panda Wed 19 Oct - 14:50

Tabak Defence: Chance Led To Joanna's Killing

















2:33pm UK, Wednesday October 19, 2011


Isabel Webster, Sky News reporter



Vincent Tabak claims it was "pure chance" he killed Joanna Yeates
after she invited him into her flat for a drink and he "completely
misread the situation".






TRIAL OF VINCENT TABAK BEGINS 4/10/11 - Page 6 15901449
Vincent Tabak denies murdering Joanna Yeates




Outlining the case for the defence, William Clegg QC, said
Miss Yeates was "bored and lonely" on December 17 and came home to her
Clifton flat to bake mince pies.


When her neighbour Tabak set off for Asda, passing her kitchen window, she "beckoned for him to come in".


The landscape architect offered him a drink, which he declined and
after talking for around 10 minutes Tabak tried to kiss her, putting
"one hand on her back to draw her closer".


Mr Clegg told Bristol Crown Court he "completely misread the situation" and that "she screamed and he panicked".


:: Read our live blog from today's court proceedings here.




The jury heard that Tabak, who denies murder but admits manslaughter,
put a hand over her mouth to stifle her "piercing scream" and then,
apologising, he took his hand away.


As she started to scream again he put one hand back over mouth and
the other around her throat and in "less than a minute" Miss Yeates
"went limp" and was dead.


Mr Clegg said Tabak had committed a "dreadful crime" and that if Miss
Yeates had stayed at the pub for another drink she would still be
alive.


He said his client must "pay the price for what he had done" but the
jury was asked to remember that it was not something he had "planned or
wanted".


The court was then painted a picture of Tabak's actions after Miss
Yeates' death - and heard he had turned off her oven, removed the pizza
she had bought and took her body to his flat before placing it in a
bicycle bag and putting her in his boot.


After a brief trip to Asda he drove to Longwood Lane where an attempt was made to put her over the wall.


But Mr Tabak failed because Miss Yeates' dead body was "too heavy".






TRIAL OF VINCENT TABAK BEGINS 4/10/11 - Page 6 15866754
Joanna Yeates and her boyfriend Greg Reardon





Miss Yeates' snow-covered corpse was found on the lane by a couple on December 25.


Closing his speech Mr Clegg implored the jury to remember Tabak was
not being tried for what he did after Joanna Yeates' death, even though
it was "frankly disgusting".


Instead he urged them to consider only "the act that caused her
death" which, he said, was not "planned or pre-meditated" in any way.


Tabak is due to give evidence on Thursday.


Earlier the prosecution closed their case after hearing evidence from two further witnesses.


The jury heard how Tabak used the internet to follow the police
search and press coverage in the days after he killed Joanna Yeates.


The Dutch engineer used computers at home and at work, as well his
mobile phone, to look up "maximum sentence manslaughter, UK",
"forensics, Jo Bristol".









TRIAL OF VINCENT TABAK BEGINS 4/10/11 - Page 6 16088583





Tabak watched a time-lapse video of a body decomposing.


He also looked up the definitions of "sexual conduct" and "sexual
assault" and did Wikipedia searches on "murder" and "manslaughter" in UK
law.


On December 19 - before police knew Miss Yeates was missing - Tabak
looked at Google maps of Longwood Lane, Failand, where he dumped her
body on a snow-covered verge, the court heard.


The court was also told that six days after killing her, Tabak
researched the percentage of grey cars and how many Renault Megane's
there are in the UK - the colour and model of his own vehicle.


Expert internet analyst, Lyndsey Farmery, confirmed he had spent time
reading articles about high profile murder cases - including Anni
Dewani, Barry Rubery and Melanie Hall.


In Google searches, Tabak looked up pages about the pizza Miss Yeates
bought and also checked rubbish collections, the jury was told.


Nigel Lickley, QC for the prosecution, said that at some points Tabak
was doing "many hits on various websites" and that this was "hourly,
perhaps constant viewing".














































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Post  wjk Wed 19 Oct - 22:30

chrissie wrote:So Tabak is to take the stand tomorrow morning. His defence have said she was lonely,invited him in having caught sight of him through the kitchen window. He went in took off his coat, had a chat, she offered him a drink, she was just being friendly, he misread her signals and went to kiss her then accidently killed her......................all in the space of 4 MINUTES. Yeah right............

Exactly chrissie! Why was her stuff scattered all over, her earings found on the floor and in the bed! No way did it happen like he says. No way!! Looking forward to hearing it from his own mouth tomorrow!
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Post  chrissie Thu 20 Oct - 9:41

wjk - I can't wait for him to be cross-examined!
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Post  Panda Thu 20 Oct - 9:50

Do you think maybe he and Jo ended up on the Bed and she backed off which is when he got violent.I seem to remember that Tabak"s DNA was on her trousers........or have I got it wrong.LOL
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Post  wjk Thu 20 Oct - 10:57

Panda wrote:Do you think maybe he and Jo ended up on the Bed and she backed off which is when he got violent.I seem to remember that Tabak"s DNA was on her trousers........or have I got it wrong.LOL
Hi Panda, I remember his DNA on her breasts and I think it was her trousers too?
Why would she have one sock on if it went like he said? Is he saying she poured him a drink and had a chat stood there with one sock? I don't think so! And her injuries are not injuries got with trying to kiss her and then holding her throat for less than 20 secs! Something more went on there!

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Post  Panda Thu 20 Oct - 11:47

wjk wrote:
Panda wrote:Do you think maybe he and Jo ended up on the Bed and she backed off which is when he got violent.I seem to remember that Tabak"s DNA was on her trousers........or have I got it wrong.LOL
Hi Panda, I remember his DNA on her breasts and I think it was her trousers too?
Why would she have one sock on if it went like he said? Is he saying she poured him a drink and had a chat stood there with one sock? I don't think so! And her injuries are not injuries got with trying to kiss her and then holding her throat for less than 20 secs! Something more went on there!


Hi wjk, so we must assume that Jo was willing initially which maybe throws a different light on this. I seem to remember Tabak took one sock off ......to wipe off prints?
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Post  Panda Thu 20 Oct - 11:51

Sobbing Tabak Tells Jury How He Killed Yeates









Vincent Tabak, who is accused of murdering Joanna Yeates last December,
broke down in tears as he began giving evidence in his trial.











::
Follow the day's proceedings via our live blog, with tweets from the Sky News
team at Bristol Crown Court.


Tabak was called to the witness box at Bristol Crown Court by his defence
barrister, William Clegg QC.

He spoke slowly and clearly with a strong accent as he confirmed he was a
Dutch national.

Tabak answered questions about his background - where he grew up, what he
studied at university in Holland and when he arrived in the UK.

But he broke down in tears when asked about his girlfriend, who he met on an
internet dating website.


TRIAL OF VINCENT TABAK BEGINS 4/10/11 - Page 6 15901449
Tabak has admitted manslaughter but denies murdering Miss
Yeates



He regained his composure to give details about the night of December 17,
2010.

Tabak told the court he was invited in to Miss Yeates' flat after he walked
passed her window on his way to do some shopping at Asda.

After going inside, he said they spoke about their partners being away but he
soon "got the impression that she wanted to kiss me".

The Dutchman said he decided to make a pass at her and then leaned in to kiss
his neighbour.



TRIAL OF VINCENT TABAK BEGINS 4/10/11 - Page 6 16088583



"She started to scream quite loudly," Tabak said. "I panicked and put one of
my hands over her mouth. I said something like, I am sorry."

He said when he took his hand away she continued to scream, so he again
covered her mouth with one hand and put his other hand on her neck.

Tabak told the court he was "panicking" and just wanted to stop her
screaming.

After strangling her for less than a minute "she went limp, she fell to the
floor", he said.

"I still can't understand what happened."


TRIAL OF VINCENT TABAK BEGINS 4/10/11 - Page 6 15866477
Miss Yeates with her boyfriend Gregory Reardon



Explaining his movements after Miss Yeates' death, Tabak said he was "not
thinking straight" when he moved her body to his flat and then to the boot of
his car.

When asked why he went shopping at Asda with Miss Yeates' body in his car, he
said: "I panicked. I just picked the original plan and (went) there."

Miss Yeates's parents David and Teresa Yeates, their son Chris and her
boyfriend Greg Reardon were in court to hear Tabak's evidence.

Tabak has admitted manslaughter but denies murdering Miss Yeates.
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Post  Panda Thu 20 Oct - 12:05

Well , the evidence doesn"t tally with his Statement.!!
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