Syria warns West against intervention
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Syria Debate: Cameron Makes Case For ActionThe PM admits it is impossible to be certain the Assad regime was behind a chemical weapons attack but says he is convinced.5:16pm UK, Thursday 29 August 2013 PlayLiveWestminster
Live Stream: Commons Debates Syrian Crisis
Enlarge The Syrian regime has written to British MPs, urging them not to launch support a strike.
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Addressed to Commons Speaker John Bercow, it warns Britain "not to rush to reckless action".
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The administration urges MPs to "pause" and think before they support military action.
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The letter raises the pressure ahead of the Commons debate.
4 of 10
Many MPs are already deeply sceptical about action because of the Iraq War.
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6 of 10
7 of 10
8 of 10
9 of 10
10 of 10
PreviousNextGallery: Syria's Warning Letter To MPs
Enlarge EmailDavid Cameron has urged MPs to support his position on military action in Syria as he declared "this is not like Iraq".
The Prime Minister said the "abhorrent" chemical weapons attack in Damascus last week had caused "sickening human suffering" and could not be ignored.
But he stressed his plans should not be compared to the allied invasion of Iraq in 2003, which led to the downfall of Saddam Hussein.
Starting an emergency debate in the Commons, Mr Cameron admitted the earlier conflict had sparked "deep public cynicism" about military intervention.
However, he said: "This is not like Iraq, what we are seeing in Syria is fundamentally different. We are not invading a country. We are not searching for chemical or biological weapons."
Ed Miliband is demanding "compelling evidence" against the Assad regime
Ahead of an important vote by MPs that will test his authority, he warned "decades of painstaking work" would be undone if there was no international action.
"The global consensus against the use of chemical weapons will be fatally unravelled, a 100-year taboo would be breached," he warned.
The Prime Minister admitted there was no "one smoking piece of intelligence" that made it 100% certain the Assad regime was behind the atrocity.
But he said he had been convinced by the available evidence and told MPs it was now up to them to make the same judgement.
He warned Syrian leader Bashar Assad would conclude he could "use these weapons again and again and on a larger scale and with impunity" if the world stood by.
"In the end we can't know the mind of this brutal dictator, all we can do is make a judgment about whether it is better to act or not to act and make a judgment about whether he is responsible or not responsible," he said.
Despite efforts to secure a UN Security Council resolution, Mr Cameron argued this should not be the only basis for possible action.
Indicating Britain could ignore a veto by Russia or China, he said his test would be if there was "overwhelming opposition" at the UN.
Anti-war protesters outside Parliament during the debate
The debate came after Downing Street published its legal advice for action and a letter detailing the position of intelligence experts.
Government lawyers believe Britain could launch a targeted strike on humanitarian grounds without agreement at the UN.
And evidence from the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) found a chemical weapons did take place and it was "highly likely" the Assad regime was to blame.
MPs will vote tonight on the principle of military action, with any direct British involvement requiring a further Commons vote.
But the Prime Minister's hopes of a united political response have already been dashed after Labour vowed to oppose the Government motion.
Mr Cameron had already been forced to accept the need to give UN inspectors more time to report and MPs a further vote but this was still not enough to win round the Opposition.
It called the Government's new position "opaque" and tabled an alternative motion demanding "compelling evidence" the Assad regime was behind the atrocity.
Number 10 reacted furiously to Ed Miliband's positioning, accusing him of "playing politics" and attempting to divide the country.
But in the Commons, the Labour leader insisted "evidence should precede decision" and that the UN was not an "inconvenient sideshow" but essential to building a case.
He told the House he had not ruled out military intervention but said: "We need to be clear-eyed about the impact this would have."
UN inspectors investigating the attack this week
Calling for respect to be shown to the UN, he added: "I am very clear about the fact that we have to learn the lessons of Iraq."
A frustrated Number 10 argued that the evidence from the intelligence services and publicly available material, including YouTube videos, was clear.
"Are we seriously suggesting that rows of three-year-old children frothing at the mouth and dead were somehow made to act this out?" a senior source said.
"Experts who have looked at this video have said it is conclusive that something like sarin was used here. The idea that this was concocted in some way is ridiculous."
Former foreign secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind said it was impossible to have 100% proof the regime was involved but insisted the available evidence was strong.
The chemical weapon attack was in the same Damascus suburb where a sustained military attack by government forces was taking place, he pointed out.
And he warned MPs: "At this very moment, the Assad regime in Damascus is watching very carefully to see whether they will get away with what they have done.
"If there is no significant international response of any kind, then we can be absolutely certain that the forces within Damascus will be successful in saying we must continue to use these whenever there is a military rationale for doing so.
"There is no guarantee that a military strike against military targets will work, but there is every certainty that if we don't make that effort to punish and deter, then these actions will indeed continue."
UN weapons inspectors are due to finish their work on Friday and will report directly to secretary general Ban Ki-moon within 24 hours.
But their conclusions will not apportion blame - they will only set out the evidence on whether a chemical attack happened or not.
Before the debate in Britain, Syria's Parliament called on British MPs to avoid "reckless action", warning intervention could help terrorists and lead to the deaths of UK troops.
In a letter, it declared a strike would be "an aggressive and unprovoked act of war" and said: "We ask you not to bomb us but to work with us."
Assad also issued a fresh warning on Thursday that the country would "defend itself in the face of any aggression".
Six British RAF Typhoon jets have been sent to Cyprus as tensions mount, in what the Ministry of Defence called a "prudent and precautionary measure".
Meanwhile, reports suggested Russia - a key ally of Syria - is sending warships to the Mediterranean.
Live Stream: Commons Debates Syrian Crisis
Enlarge The Syrian regime has written to British MPs, urging them not to launch support a strike.
1 of 10
Addressed to Commons Speaker John Bercow, it warns Britain "not to rush to reckless action".
2 of 10
The administration urges MPs to "pause" and think before they support military action.
3 of 10
The letter raises the pressure ahead of the Commons debate.
4 of 10
Many MPs are already deeply sceptical about action because of the Iraq War.
5 of 10
6 of 10
7 of 10
8 of 10
9 of 10
10 of 10
PreviousNextGallery: Syria's Warning Letter To MPs
Enlarge EmailDavid Cameron has urged MPs to support his position on military action in Syria as he declared "this is not like Iraq".
The Prime Minister said the "abhorrent" chemical weapons attack in Damascus last week had caused "sickening human suffering" and could not be ignored.
But he stressed his plans should not be compared to the allied invasion of Iraq in 2003, which led to the downfall of Saddam Hussein.
Starting an emergency debate in the Commons, Mr Cameron admitted the earlier conflict had sparked "deep public cynicism" about military intervention.
However, he said: "This is not like Iraq, what we are seeing in Syria is fundamentally different. We are not invading a country. We are not searching for chemical or biological weapons."
Ed Miliband is demanding "compelling evidence" against the Assad regime
Ahead of an important vote by MPs that will test his authority, he warned "decades of painstaking work" would be undone if there was no international action.
"The global consensus against the use of chemical weapons will be fatally unravelled, a 100-year taboo would be breached," he warned.
The Prime Minister admitted there was no "one smoking piece of intelligence" that made it 100% certain the Assad regime was behind the atrocity.
But he said he had been convinced by the available evidence and told MPs it was now up to them to make the same judgement.
He warned Syrian leader Bashar Assad would conclude he could "use these weapons again and again and on a larger scale and with impunity" if the world stood by.
"In the end we can't know the mind of this brutal dictator, all we can do is make a judgment about whether it is better to act or not to act and make a judgment about whether he is responsible or not responsible," he said.
Despite efforts to secure a UN Security Council resolution, Mr Cameron argued this should not be the only basis for possible action.
Indicating Britain could ignore a veto by Russia or China, he said his test would be if there was "overwhelming opposition" at the UN.
Anti-war protesters outside Parliament during the debate
The debate came after Downing Street published its legal advice for action and a letter detailing the position of intelligence experts.
Government lawyers believe Britain could launch a targeted strike on humanitarian grounds without agreement at the UN.
And evidence from the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) found a chemical weapons did take place and it was "highly likely" the Assad regime was to blame.
MPs will vote tonight on the principle of military action, with any direct British involvement requiring a further Commons vote.
But the Prime Minister's hopes of a united political response have already been dashed after Labour vowed to oppose the Government motion.
Mr Cameron had already been forced to accept the need to give UN inspectors more time to report and MPs a further vote but this was still not enough to win round the Opposition.
It called the Government's new position "opaque" and tabled an alternative motion demanding "compelling evidence" the Assad regime was behind the atrocity.
Number 10 reacted furiously to Ed Miliband's positioning, accusing him of "playing politics" and attempting to divide the country.
But in the Commons, the Labour leader insisted "evidence should precede decision" and that the UN was not an "inconvenient sideshow" but essential to building a case.
He told the House he had not ruled out military intervention but said: "We need to be clear-eyed about the impact this would have."
UN inspectors investigating the attack this week
Calling for respect to be shown to the UN, he added: "I am very clear about the fact that we have to learn the lessons of Iraq."
A frustrated Number 10 argued that the evidence from the intelligence services and publicly available material, including YouTube videos, was clear.
"Are we seriously suggesting that rows of three-year-old children frothing at the mouth and dead were somehow made to act this out?" a senior source said.
"Experts who have looked at this video have said it is conclusive that something like sarin was used here. The idea that this was concocted in some way is ridiculous."
Former foreign secretary Sir Malcolm Rifkind said it was impossible to have 100% proof the regime was involved but insisted the available evidence was strong.
The chemical weapon attack was in the same Damascus suburb where a sustained military attack by government forces was taking place, he pointed out.
And he warned MPs: "At this very moment, the Assad regime in Damascus is watching very carefully to see whether they will get away with what they have done.
"If there is no significant international response of any kind, then we can be absolutely certain that the forces within Damascus will be successful in saying we must continue to use these whenever there is a military rationale for doing so.
"There is no guarantee that a military strike against military targets will work, but there is every certainty that if we don't make that effort to punish and deter, then these actions will indeed continue."
UN weapons inspectors are due to finish their work on Friday and will report directly to secretary general Ban Ki-moon within 24 hours.
But their conclusions will not apportion blame - they will only set out the evidence on whether a chemical attack happened or not.
Before the debate in Britain, Syria's Parliament called on British MPs to avoid "reckless action", warning intervention could help terrorists and lead to the deaths of UK troops.
In a letter, it declared a strike would be "an aggressive and unprovoked act of war" and said: "We ask you not to bomb us but to work with us."
Assad also issued a fresh warning on Thursday that the country would "defend itself in the face of any aggression".
Six British RAF Typhoon jets have been sent to Cyprus as tensions mount, in what the Ministry of Defence called a "prudent and precautionary measure".
Meanwhile, reports suggested Russia - a key ally of Syria - is sending warships to the Mediterranean.
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
AnnaEsse wrote:
Crikey AnnaEsse, that'll put the cat among the pigeons.Thanks. Obama is reluctant and if this is true there will definitely not be an invasion. You have to feel sorry for the Refugees and the injured, these are not Men committing these horrors, they are Monsters.
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Panda, there are videos, apparently, of rebels taking responsibility for chemical attacks. I haven't watched them, but they are said to be authentic.Panda wrote:Crikey AnnaEsse, that'll put the cat among the pigeons.Thanks. Obama is reluctant and if this is true there will definitely not be an invasion. You have to feel sorry for the Refugees and the injured, these are not Men committing these horrors, they are Monsters.AnnaEsse wrote:
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
The Middle East is like a melting pot AnnaEsse and if the U.S. and Britain are involved, how can the publice ever trust Politicains again.? Tony Blair I thought was a one off, but what if Cameron has endangered Britain over this. Are these videos on youtube do you know.? Trouble is, with so many factions it is hard to tell whos who. To think these Rebels can turn on their own is disgusting.
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Panda I'll have a look for those videos later. Got to go out now.Panda wrote:
The Middle East is like a melting pot AnnaEsse and if the U.S. and Britain are involved, how can the publice ever trust Politicains again.? Tony Blair I thought was a one off, but what if Cameron has endangered Britain over this. Are these videos on youtube do you know.? Trouble is, with so many factions it is hard to tell whos who. To think these Rebels can turn on their own is disgusting.
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Panda, I haven't found the videos, but I have found a report about a respected AP journalist interviewing rebels.
Rebels Admit Responsibility for Chemical Weapons Attack
Militants tell AP reporter they mishandled Saudi-supplied chemical weapons, causing accident
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
August 30, 2013
Syrian rebels in the Damascus suburb of Ghouta have admitted to Associated Press correspondent Dale Gavlak that they were responsible for last week’s chemical weapons incident which western powers have blamed on Bashar Al-Assad’s forces, revealing that the casualties were the result of an accident caused by rebels mishandling chemical weapons provided to them by Saudi Arabia.
“From numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families….many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the (deadly) gas attack,” writes Gavlak. (back up version here).
Rebels told Gavlak that they were not properly trained on how to handle the chemical weapons or even told what they were. It appears as though the weapons were initially supposed to be given to the Al-Qaeda offshoot Jabhat al-Nusra.
“We were very curious about these arms. And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions,” one militant named ‘J’ told Gavlak.
His claims are echoed by another female fighter named ‘K’, who told Gavlak, “They didn’t tell us what these arms were or how to use them. We didn’t know they were chemical weapons. We never imagined they were chemical weapons.”
Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of an opposition rebel, also told Gavlak, “My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” describing them as having a “tube-like structure” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.” The father names the Saudi militant who provided the weapons as Abu Ayesha.
According to Abdel-Moneim, the weapons exploded inside a tunnel, killing 12 rebels.
“More than a dozen rebels interviewed reported that their salaries came from the Saudi government,” writes Gavlak.
If accurate, this story could completely derail the United States’ rush to attack Syria which has been founded on the “undeniable” justification that Assad was behind the chemical weapons attack. Dale Gavlak’s credibility is very impressive. He has been a Middle East correspondent for the Associated Press for two decades and has also worked for National Public Radio (NPR) and written articles for BBC News.
The website on which the story originally appeared - Mint Press (which is currently down as a result of huge traffic it is attracting to the article) is a legitimate media organization based in Minnesota. The Minnesota Post did a profile on them last year.
Saudi Arabia’s alleged role in providing rebels, whom they have vehemently backed at every turn, with chemical weapons, is no surprise given the revelations earlier this week that the Saudis threatened Russia with terror attacks at next year’s Winter Olympics in Sochi unless they abandoned support for the Syrian President.
“I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,” Prince Bandar allegedly told Vladimir Putin, the Telegraph reports.
The Obama administration is set to present its intelligence findings today in an effort prove that Assad’s forces were behind last week’s attack, despite American officials admitting to the New York Times that there is no “smoking gun” that directly links President Assad to the attack.
US intelligence officials also told the Associated Press that the intelligence proving Assad’s culpability is “no slam dunk.”
As we reported earlier this week, intercepted intelligence revealed that the Syrian Defense Ministry was making “panicked” phone calls to Syria’s chemical weapons department demanding answers in the hours after the attack, suggesting that it was not ordered by Assad’s forces.
UPDATE: Associated Press contacted us to confirm that Dave Gavlak is an AP correspondent, but that her story was not published under the banner of the Associated Press. We didn’t claim this was the case, we merely pointed to Gavlak’s credentials to stress that she is a credible source, being not only an AP correspondent, but also having written for PBS, BBC and Salon.com.
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-responsibility-for-chemical-weapons-attack/
Rebels Admit Responsibility for Chemical Weapons Attack
Militants tell AP reporter they mishandled Saudi-supplied chemical weapons, causing accident
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
August 30, 2013
Syrian rebels in the Damascus suburb of Ghouta have admitted to Associated Press correspondent Dale Gavlak that they were responsible for last week’s chemical weapons incident which western powers have blamed on Bashar Al-Assad’s forces, revealing that the casualties were the result of an accident caused by rebels mishandling chemical weapons provided to them by Saudi Arabia.
“From numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families….many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the (deadly) gas attack,” writes Gavlak. (back up version here).
Rebels told Gavlak that they were not properly trained on how to handle the chemical weapons or even told what they were. It appears as though the weapons were initially supposed to be given to the Al-Qaeda offshoot Jabhat al-Nusra.
“We were very curious about these arms. And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions,” one militant named ‘J’ told Gavlak.
His claims are echoed by another female fighter named ‘K’, who told Gavlak, “They didn’t tell us what these arms were or how to use them. We didn’t know they were chemical weapons. We never imagined they were chemical weapons.”
Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of an opposition rebel, also told Gavlak, “My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” describing them as having a “tube-like structure” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.” The father names the Saudi militant who provided the weapons as Abu Ayesha.
According to Abdel-Moneim, the weapons exploded inside a tunnel, killing 12 rebels.
“More than a dozen rebels interviewed reported that their salaries came from the Saudi government,” writes Gavlak.
If accurate, this story could completely derail the United States’ rush to attack Syria which has been founded on the “undeniable” justification that Assad was behind the chemical weapons attack. Dale Gavlak’s credibility is very impressive. He has been a Middle East correspondent for the Associated Press for two decades and has also worked for National Public Radio (NPR) and written articles for BBC News.
The website on which the story originally appeared - Mint Press (which is currently down as a result of huge traffic it is attracting to the article) is a legitimate media organization based in Minnesota. The Minnesota Post did a profile on them last year.
Saudi Arabia’s alleged role in providing rebels, whom they have vehemently backed at every turn, with chemical weapons, is no surprise given the revelations earlier this week that the Saudis threatened Russia with terror attacks at next year’s Winter Olympics in Sochi unless they abandoned support for the Syrian President.
“I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the games are controlled by us,” Prince Bandar allegedly told Vladimir Putin, the Telegraph reports.
The Obama administration is set to present its intelligence findings today in an effort prove that Assad’s forces were behind last week’s attack, despite American officials admitting to the New York Times that there is no “smoking gun” that directly links President Assad to the attack.
US intelligence officials also told the Associated Press that the intelligence proving Assad’s culpability is “no slam dunk.”
As we reported earlier this week, intercepted intelligence revealed that the Syrian Defense Ministry was making “panicked” phone calls to Syria’s chemical weapons department demanding answers in the hours after the attack, suggesting that it was not ordered by Assad’s forces.
UPDATE: Associated Press contacted us to confirm that Dave Gavlak is an AP correspondent, but that her story was not published under the banner of the Associated Press. We didn’t claim this was the case, we merely pointed to Gavlak’s credentials to stress that she is a credible source, being not only an AP correspondent, but also having written for PBS, BBC and Salon.com.
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-responsibility-for-chemical-weapons-attack/
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Thanks AnnaEsse, what will happen now? Didn't that Irish peace Lady say Saudi Arabia was one of the 4 countries in collusion ?
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
She did say that and I'd be inclined to treat her as a reliable source.Panda wrote:
Thanks AnnaEsse, what will happen now? Didn't that Irish peace Lady say Saudi Arabia was one of the 4 countries in collusion ?
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
I BELIEVE OBAMA HAS MADE A SPEECH ABOUT SYRIA.
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Obama is getting cold feet, he has announced that he will await the UN findings before making a decision , could be one week or one month before he takes any action. I wonder if the UN pick up this Irish Lady's claim and qhestion the Leaders of the 4 Countries. We shall see.AnnaEsse wrote:She did say that and I'd be inclined to treat her as a reliable source.Panda wrote:
Thanks AnnaEsse, what will happen now? Didn't that Irish peace Lady say Saudi Arabia was one of the 4 countries in collusion ?
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
I think there are a lot more people claiming the same thing. Obama bypassed Congress to attack Libya, but I think he'd be in big trouble if he did that again.Panda wrote:Obama is getting cold feet, he has announced that he will await the UN findings before making a decision , could be one week or one month before he takes any action. I wonder if the UN pick up this Irish Lady's claim and qhestion the Leaders of the 4 Countries. We shall see.AnnaEsse wrote:She did say that and I'd be inclined to treat her as a reliable source.Panda wrote:
Thanks AnnaEsse, what will happen now? Didn't that Irish peace Lady say Saudi Arabia was one of the 4 countries in collusion ?
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
WebsterGTarpley @WebsterGTarpley 55s
#Obama delay of war decision until after Sept 9 is implicit acceptance of #BanKiMoon 2-week timetable to evaluate report of #UN inspectors
#Obama delay of war decision until after Sept 9 is implicit acceptance of #BanKiMoon 2-week timetable to evaluate report of #UN inspectors
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Morning Claudia, thanks for the photos, trag ic isn't it .
There is the blame game and the UN will once again fudge the issue and nothing will be done. I hoped the irish Woman's investigation was delivered to the UN and I think this is why Obama is stalling. If the Rebels confession is to be believed then track them down and shoot them .
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
It doesn't matter whether Assad or the Rebels prevail. Either way it's going to be BBBAAADDDDD. We can't do anything to help the situation and although it is tragic for the people involved, we are not going to stop it overnight and all we will probably end up doing is sacrificing even more people. We are not Team America World Police and I am glad that Cameron has been given this message, loud and clear.
My concern is Israel, who up until now have stayed well out of it, but either side will use this as an excuse to bomb them. Iraqi and Saudi money is behind it all.
My concern is Israel, who up until now have stayed well out of it, but either side will use this as an excuse to bomb them. Iraqi and Saudi money is behind it all.
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Iris wrote:It doesn't matter whether Assad or the Rebels prevail. Either way it's going to be BBBAAADDDDD. We can't do anything to help the situation and although it is tragic for the people involved, we are not going to stop it overnight and all we will probably end up doing is sacrificing even more people. We are not Team America World Police and I am glad that Cameron has been given this message, loud and clear.
My concern is Israel, who up until now have stayed well out of it, but either side will use this as an excuse to bomb them. Iraqi and Saudi money is behind it all.
I agree with what you have said, Iris. I think the UN needs to intervene in Syria, not the USA or its allies. In the civil war that is raging in Syria, I think both sides have committed atrocities against civilians and only the UN should be intervening.
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Hi Iris, the worry is if no one is charged these "freedom fighters" (Terrorists) will feel free to do the same again.What a cauldron of fire the Middle East is, what started it off, the Iraq War? We could shrug and say let them get on with it but the displacement of so many thousands of refugees who have no home to go back to is frightening, not to mention the deaths. I watched part of a Documentary last night about Saudi Arabia and how it is governed. There are 15 provinces each governed by a Prince , who holds "Court" every day. Saudi wives can get divorced but many have no money to pay ...the Prince decides if the Husband should pay, quite enlightened I thought., sentences are severe though/Iris wrote:It doesn't matter whether Assad or the Rebels prevail. Either way it's going to be BBBAAADDDDD. We can't do anything to help the situation and although it is tragic for the people involved, we are not going to stop it overnight and all we will probably end up doing is sacrificing even more people. We are not Team America World Police and I am glad that Cameron has been given this message, loud and clear.
My concern is Israel, who up until now have stayed well out of it, but either side will use this as an excuse to bomb them. Iraqi and Saudi money is behind it all.
I don't think Obama and Cameron will go to War, but do think it is time for the UN to set up a "army " made up of all the Countries, highly trained and ready for action. the US and Britain should stay out of it just let the UN know of any potential dangers.
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
It certainly is tragic and it has been going on for quite some time. I read that 100 000 people have been killed already. We just didn't know until now. And yes, the UN should intervene. My fear is that they are a bunch of cowards and do zilch. We all criticise the US and the way they are always ready to go to war and in some circumstances those criticisms are truly deserved. But I think we should also remember that that characteristic of theirs has also saved our asses before (WWII) And that, we Europeans, tend to forget. As a reputed Portuguese journalist wrote recently, we can always criticise, one way or another, because we are the ones who do nothing so no one can point fingers at us.Panda wrote:
Morning Claudia, thanks for the photos, trag ic isn't it .
There is the blame game and the UN will once again fudge the issue and nothing will be done. I hoped the irish Woman's investigation was delivered to the UN and I think this is why Obama is stalling. If the Rebels confession is to be believed then track them down and shoot them .
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Hello Claudia I don't think anyone can ever accuse the British of doing nothing, we are always there to help and without us most of Europe would have been ruled by the Nazi. Ok the USA came in because of the bombing of Pearl Harbour. Before that they were not interested, only in selling us arms which we have just about paid off! For the first couple of years it was only us standing up to the might of Hitler.Claudia79 wrote:It certainly is tragic and it has been going on for quite some time. I read that 100 000 people have been killed already. We just didn't know until now. And yes, the UN should intervene. My fear is that they are a bunch of cowards and do zilch. We all criticise the US and the way they are always ready to go to war and in some circumstances those criticisms are truly deserved. But I think we should also remember that that characteristic of theirs has also saved our asses before (WWII) And that, we Europeans, tend to forget. As a reputed Portuguese journalist wrote recently, we can always criticise, one way or another, because we are the ones who do nothing so no one can point fingers at us.Panda wrote:
Morning Claudia, thanks for the photos, trag ic isn't it .
There is the blame game and the UN will once again fudge the issue and nothing will be done. I hoped the irish Woman's investigation was delivered to the UN and I think this is why Obama is stalling. If the Rebels confession is to be believed then track them down and shoot them .
Since then we have done whatever we can around the world to help people and keep the peace, we have spent billions and lost many young lives doing so. We have given billions in aid to starving countries and continue to do so.
We are just a very small country, we have so many commitments throughout the world. We have tried to do everything to help Afghanistan and Iraq. They turn their attention on us as if we are the enemy and bomb our streets. Some countries cannot be helped, whatever we do they will continue to fight each other.
We are now the same as most countries in Europe as in 'bankrupt' The people of this country are sick of our young men being killed the in wars that will never be resolved.
The British peoples hearts go out to those people suffering in Syria but in the end we do not want any more involvement in wars without end. No doubt at all it will be without end. The members of parliament have voted to stay out of Syria because they know the British public cannot take any more.
Also the USA do nothing out of the goodness of their hearts, only if it is in their own interests.
Got that of my chest then!
ETA those photographs are truly heart breaking but whatever we do the people that did it will do it again. May those people burn in hell
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Hi, Fuzeta. Hope you are well. I understand what you're saying, But that is exactly what I fear.fuzeta wrote:Hello Claudia I don't think anyone can ever accuse the British of doing nothing, we are always there to help and without us most of Europe would have been ruled by the Nazi. Ok the USA came in because of the bombing of Pearl Harbour. Before that they were not interested, only in selling us arms which we have just about paid off! For the first couple of years it was only us standing up to the might of Hitler.Claudia79 wrote:It certainly is tragic and it has been going on for quite some time. I read that 100 000 people have been killed already. We just didn't know until now. And yes, the UN should intervene. My fear is that they are a bunch of cowards and do zilch. We all criticise the US and the way they are always ready to go to war and in some circumstances those criticisms are truly deserved. But I think we should also remember that that characteristic of theirs has also saved our asses before (WWII) And that, we Europeans, tend to forget. As a reputed Portuguese journalist wrote recently, we can always criticise, one way or another, because we are the ones who do nothing so no one can point fingers at us.Panda wrote:
Morning Claudia, thanks for the photos, trag ic isn't it .
There is the blame game and the UN will once again fudge the issue and nothing will be done. I hoped the irish Woman's investigation was delivered to the UN and I think this is why Obama is stalling. If the Rebels confession is to be believed then track them down and shoot them .
Since then we have done whatever we can around the world to help people and keep the peace, we have spent billions and lost many young lives doing so. We have given billions in aid to starving countries and continue to do so.
We are just a very small country, we have so many commitments throughout the world. We have tried to do everything to help Afghanistan and Iraq. They turn their attention on us as if we are the enemy and bomb our streets. Some countries cannot be helped, whatever we do they will continue to fight each other.
We are now the same as most countries in Europe as in 'bankrupt' The people of this country are sick of our young men being killed the in wars that will never be resolved.
The British peoples hearts go out to those people suffering in Syria but in the end we do not want any more involvement in wars without end. No doubt at all it will be without end. The members of parliament have voted to stay out of Syria because they know the British public cannot take any more.
Also the USA do nothing out of the goodness of their hearts, only if it is in their own interests.
Got that of my chest then!
ETA those photographs are truly heart breaking but whatever we do the people that did it will do it again. May those people burn in hell
This is a dangerous thing, actually, because one day it may be us. We do not know in which hands these chemical weapons will end up and one day we may be the victims. Not likely but certainly not impossible. And if one day we are the victims, I hope someone is willing to intervene. And I don't really care about the motives behind the intervention. There are many wrong reasons to go to war but cowardly chemical attacks on unarmed civilians, especially children, cannot go unchallenged. Those children's lives aren't less important than the lives of ours. That is not the world I want to live in. Sad, crazy, unbelievable world.but in the end we do not want any more involvement in wars without end. No doubt at all it will be without end. The members of parliament have voted to stay out of Syria because they know the British public cannot take any more. wrote:
Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Syria: Pressure For New Vote On UK StrikesAs Washington says there is evidence to prove sarin gas was used in Syria, pressure mounts on MPs to reconsider military action.6:03am UK, Monday 02 September 2013 Video: Obama Tries To Sway Syria Skeptics
EmailThere are growing calls for David Cameron to consider a second Parliamentary vote on military action in Syria if further evidence emerges that civilians were targeted by chemical weapons.
Washington has announced that hair and blood samples prove the regime of Syrian President Bashar al Assad has used sarin gas to attack civilians.
Secretary of State John Kerry has used interviews with several US news channels to suggest the case for military strikes is growing, adding that he is confident Congress will back military action when it is put to a vote next week.
In Britain, pressure is mounting for a second vote on whether to support a strike against the Assad regime.
Boris Johnson has become the latest senior politician to suggest a new bid for parliamentary support could be made.
Writing in the Telegraph, the Mayor of London said the use of chemical weapons for mass murder in Syria could not go unpunished.
"If there is new and better evidence that inculpates Assad, I see no reason why the Government should not lay a new motion before Parliament, inviting British participation - and then it is Ed Miliband, not David Cameron, who will face embarrassment," Mr Johnson wrote.
UN weapons inspectors have gathered evidence in Damascus
Mr Cameron ruled out the use of British force in Syria following a defeat in the Commons.
But the prospect of Parliament revisiting the issue has been raised since US President Barack Obama's announcement that he is seeking congressional support for a strike.
The rhetoric between Washington and the Syrian regime has grown increasingly hostile in recent days.
Syria's President Bashar al Assad told state TV his country is capable of confronting any attack.
"The American threats of launching an attack against Syria will not discourage Syria away from its principles ... or its fight against terrorism supported by some regional and Western countries, first and foremost the United States of America," he said.
Mr Obama has launched an intense lobbying effort in an attempt to sway sceptical US politicians to support a military strike.
Arab League foreign ministers hasve urged the United Nations and the international community to take "deterrent" action, while blaming the regime for the alleged chemical weapons assault.
According to US estimates, up to 1,429 people, including at least 426 children, were killed in the alleged chemical attack in Damascus last month.
Mr Obama is seeking congressional support for a strike on Syria
As the diplomatic wrangling continues, British MPs have called for answers from the Government over a chemicals trade deal with Syria signed months after the bloodshed started.
The Department for Business issued licences for the export of sodium fluoride and potassium fluoride to the war-torn country in January last year before revoking them several months later.
The chemicals are capable of being used to make nerve gas such as sarin as well as having a variety of industrial uses, according to a scientist quoted by the Sunday Mail newspaper.
The Government said no chemicals were exported before the licence was revoked in June 2012 following EU sanctions but MPs said they intend to raise the issue at Westminster.
The SNP's Angus Robertson said: "This is utter hypocrisy from the UK Government - deploring chemical weapons in public whilst approving the sale of items needed to make them.
"I will be raising this at Westminster as soon as possible to find out what examination the UK Government made of where these chemicals were going, and what they were to be used for.
"Approving the sale of chemicals which can be converted into lethal weapons during a civil war is a very serious issue."
EmailThere are growing calls for David Cameron to consider a second Parliamentary vote on military action in Syria if further evidence emerges that civilians were targeted by chemical weapons.
Washington has announced that hair and blood samples prove the regime of Syrian President Bashar al Assad has used sarin gas to attack civilians.
Secretary of State John Kerry has used interviews with several US news channels to suggest the case for military strikes is growing, adding that he is confident Congress will back military action when it is put to a vote next week.
In Britain, pressure is mounting for a second vote on whether to support a strike against the Assad regime.
Boris Johnson has become the latest senior politician to suggest a new bid for parliamentary support could be made.
Writing in the Telegraph, the Mayor of London said the use of chemical weapons for mass murder in Syria could not go unpunished.
"If there is new and better evidence that inculpates Assad, I see no reason why the Government should not lay a new motion before Parliament, inviting British participation - and then it is Ed Miliband, not David Cameron, who will face embarrassment," Mr Johnson wrote.
UN weapons inspectors have gathered evidence in Damascus
Mr Cameron ruled out the use of British force in Syria following a defeat in the Commons.
But the prospect of Parliament revisiting the issue has been raised since US President Barack Obama's announcement that he is seeking congressional support for a strike.
The rhetoric between Washington and the Syrian regime has grown increasingly hostile in recent days.
Syria's President Bashar al Assad told state TV his country is capable of confronting any attack.
"The American threats of launching an attack against Syria will not discourage Syria away from its principles ... or its fight against terrorism supported by some regional and Western countries, first and foremost the United States of America," he said.
Mr Obama has launched an intense lobbying effort in an attempt to sway sceptical US politicians to support a military strike.
Arab League foreign ministers hasve urged the United Nations and the international community to take "deterrent" action, while blaming the regime for the alleged chemical weapons assault.
According to US estimates, up to 1,429 people, including at least 426 children, were killed in the alleged chemical attack in Damascus last month.
Mr Obama is seeking congressional support for a strike on Syria
As the diplomatic wrangling continues, British MPs have called for answers from the Government over a chemicals trade deal with Syria signed months after the bloodshed started.
The Department for Business issued licences for the export of sodium fluoride and potassium fluoride to the war-torn country in January last year before revoking them several months later.
The chemicals are capable of being used to make nerve gas such as sarin as well as having a variety of industrial uses, according to a scientist quoted by the Sunday Mail newspaper.
The Government said no chemicals were exported before the licence was revoked in June 2012 following EU sanctions but MPs said they intend to raise the issue at Westminster.
The SNP's Angus Robertson said: "This is utter hypocrisy from the UK Government - deploring chemical weapons in public whilst approving the sale of items needed to make them.
"I will be raising this at Westminster as soon as possible to find out what examination the UK Government made of where these chemicals were going, and what they were to be used for.
"Approving the sale of chemicals which can be converted into lethal weapons during a civil war is a very serious issue."
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Syria Crisis: Two Million Refugees Flee WarThe nine-fold increase in refugees is a "calamity" says the UN, as it warns some countries could collapse under the strain.7:31am UK, Tuesday 03 September 2013 Video: UN Warns Of Syria Refugee Crisis
Enlarge EmailThe number of refugees fleeing Syria's civil war has topped two million - a nine-fold increase in 12 months, according to the United Nations.
"Syria has become the great tragedy of this century - a disgraceful humanitarian calamity with suffering and displacement unparalleled in recent history," said UNHCR head António Guterres.
The UNHCR - the UN's refugee agency - wants a massive increase in aid to stop Syria's neighbours buckling under the strain.
A year ago, the number of Syrians registered as refugees or awaiting registration stood at 230,671 people.
The massive rise comes as France bolstered calls for military action in Syria by saying it had evidence the regime was behind a "massive and co-ordinated" chemical attack in Damascus.
The Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan is home to 115,000 Syrians
The US government has also said evidence points to deadly sarin gas being used to kill 1,429 people on August 21.
More than half of the refugees created by the war - some 52% - are under 17, said the UNHCR, and over one million children have now left their homeland to try to escape the bloodshed.
The situation is said to have reached a "critical stage", with more than 5,000 Syrians spilling over borders each day into neighbouring countries.
Lebanon has taken the most people, with 716,000. Some 515,000 have gone to Jordan, 460,000 are in Turkey, while Egypt has 110,000 and Iraq 168,000.
The UNHCR said the countries were struggling to provide food and shelter at refugee camps.
Syrian refugees at a camp in Iraq, which has taken in some 168,000 people
It wants the international community to act quickly to stop the system collapsing.
A further 4.25 million people are displaced inside Syria, according to UN data - meaning six million people have been forced to leave their homes during the two and a half year civil war.
Actress Angelina Jolie, a UNHCR Special Envoy, said the international community had a "responsibility to do more" to help Syrian refugees.
"If the situation continues to deteriorate at this rate, the number of refugees will only grow," said Jolie. "Some neighbouring countries could be brought to the point of collapse."
Meanwhile, US President Barack Obama has been meeting political figures such as Senator John McCain as he tries to galvanise support for military strikes ahead of a debate in Congress.
But in Britain, another Parliamentary vote on the issue seems unlikely.
Syrian President Bashar al Assad has warned France against military action
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg said he could not foresee any circumstances in which the Government would take the vote back to Parliament.
France's intelligence report, which includes satellite imagery, claims chemical attacks were launched from government-controlled areas, a French government source told Reuters news agency.
It claims they killed "at least 281" people.
French MPs will debate the issue on Wednesday, but President Francois Hollande does not need parliamentary approval for military action lasting less than four months.
Syria's government called the allegations "illogical" and warned it would retaliate if France took military action.
The crisis is set to be top of the agenda among world leaders at the two-day G20 summit, which begins in St Petersburg on Thursday.
Enlarge EmailThe number of refugees fleeing Syria's civil war has topped two million - a nine-fold increase in 12 months, according to the United Nations.
"Syria has become the great tragedy of this century - a disgraceful humanitarian calamity with suffering and displacement unparalleled in recent history," said UNHCR head António Guterres.
The UNHCR - the UN's refugee agency - wants a massive increase in aid to stop Syria's neighbours buckling under the strain.
A year ago, the number of Syrians registered as refugees or awaiting registration stood at 230,671 people.
The massive rise comes as France bolstered calls for military action in Syria by saying it had evidence the regime was behind a "massive and co-ordinated" chemical attack in Damascus.
The Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan is home to 115,000 Syrians
The US government has also said evidence points to deadly sarin gas being used to kill 1,429 people on August 21.
More than half of the refugees created by the war - some 52% - are under 17, said the UNHCR, and over one million children have now left their homeland to try to escape the bloodshed.
The situation is said to have reached a "critical stage", with more than 5,000 Syrians spilling over borders each day into neighbouring countries.
Lebanon has taken the most people, with 716,000. Some 515,000 have gone to Jordan, 460,000 are in Turkey, while Egypt has 110,000 and Iraq 168,000.
The UNHCR said the countries were struggling to provide food and shelter at refugee camps.
Syrian refugees at a camp in Iraq, which has taken in some 168,000 people
It wants the international community to act quickly to stop the system collapsing.
A further 4.25 million people are displaced inside Syria, according to UN data - meaning six million people have been forced to leave their homes during the two and a half year civil war.
Actress Angelina Jolie, a UNHCR Special Envoy, said the international community had a "responsibility to do more" to help Syrian refugees.
"If the situation continues to deteriorate at this rate, the number of refugees will only grow," said Jolie. "Some neighbouring countries could be brought to the point of collapse."
Meanwhile, US President Barack Obama has been meeting political figures such as Senator John McCain as he tries to galvanise support for military strikes ahead of a debate in Congress.
But in Britain, another Parliamentary vote on the issue seems unlikely.
Syrian President Bashar al Assad has warned France against military action
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg said he could not foresee any circumstances in which the Government would take the vote back to Parliament.
France's intelligence report, which includes satellite imagery, claims chemical attacks were launched from government-controlled areas, a French government source told Reuters news agency.
It claims they killed "at least 281" people.
French MPs will debate the issue on Wednesday, but President Francois Hollande does not need parliamentary approval for military action lasting less than four months.
Syria's government called the allegations "illogical" and warned it would retaliate if France took military action.
The crisis is set to be top of the agenda among world leaders at the two-day G20 summit, which begins in St Petersburg on Thursday.
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Re: Syria warns West against intervention
Syria Defector 'Exposes Assad Chemical Attack'At least 24 people are said to have died in Aleppo as the opposition claims three military convoys are moving chemical weapons.5:02pm UK, Tuesday 03 September 2013 The apparent attack took place in Aleppo in March
EmailA former Syrian forensic medicine expert has provided evidence that the Assad regime used chemical weapons, opposition forces say.
Abdeltawwab Shahrour, head of the forensic medicine committee in Aleppo, claims there was a chemical attack in Khan al-Assal, Aleppo, on March 19, said Istanbul-based opposition coalition spokeswoman Sarah Karkour.
Mr Shahrour, who has defected to Turkey, has documents proving the attack took place and eyewitness accounts from police authorities that contradicte the administration's version of events, a second opposition official said.
Both the government and rebels have blamed each other for what they say was an attack involving chemical weapons. More than two dozen people died.
The alleged chemical attack in Damascus
Russia, which alongside Iran is Syria's closest ally and chief arms supplier, said in July its own scientific analysis indicated the attack had involved the nerve agent sarin and had most likely been carried out by the rebels.
Both sides deny using chemical weapons.
Dr Shahrour was expected to reveal the details of the attack during a press conference in Turkey but Syrian National Council spokesperson Khaled Saleh said he was unable to appear due to "security concerns".
Mr Saleh added that the national council has received information in the last few days that three government convoys were carrying chemical weapons and one had reached a military airport.
He said: "We have serious concerns based on the information that we have received from sources inside the Assad army who are sympathetic to the revolution that Assad might be considering using those chemical weapons against innocent civilians."
Aleppo has seen heavy fighting between the two sides for months
A team of UN experts who visited Syria last month to investigate allegations of chemicals weapons had originally planned to visit Khan al-Assal.
However, it ended up focusing on a much larger apparent poison gas attack which killed hundreds of civilians in suburbs of the capital Damascus on August 21.
The new opposition claims come as France bolstered calls for military action in Syria by saying it had evidence the regime was behind the "massive and co-ordinated" chemical attack in Damascus.
Syria's government called the allegations "illogical" and warned it would retaliate if France took military action.
The US government has also said evidence points to deadly sarin gas being used to kill 1,429 people in the August attack.
US President Barack Obama has been meeting political figures such as Senator John McCain as he tries to galvanise support for military strikes ahead of a debate in Congress.
EmailA former Syrian forensic medicine expert has provided evidence that the Assad regime used chemical weapons, opposition forces say.
Abdeltawwab Shahrour, head of the forensic medicine committee in Aleppo, claims there was a chemical attack in Khan al-Assal, Aleppo, on March 19, said Istanbul-based opposition coalition spokeswoman Sarah Karkour.
Mr Shahrour, who has defected to Turkey, has documents proving the attack took place and eyewitness accounts from police authorities that contradicte the administration's version of events, a second opposition official said.
Both the government and rebels have blamed each other for what they say was an attack involving chemical weapons. More than two dozen people died.
The alleged chemical attack in Damascus
Russia, which alongside Iran is Syria's closest ally and chief arms supplier, said in July its own scientific analysis indicated the attack had involved the nerve agent sarin and had most likely been carried out by the rebels.
Both sides deny using chemical weapons.
Dr Shahrour was expected to reveal the details of the attack during a press conference in Turkey but Syrian National Council spokesperson Khaled Saleh said he was unable to appear due to "security concerns".
Mr Saleh added that the national council has received information in the last few days that three government convoys were carrying chemical weapons and one had reached a military airport.
He said: "We have serious concerns based on the information that we have received from sources inside the Assad army who are sympathetic to the revolution that Assad might be considering using those chemical weapons against innocent civilians."
Aleppo has seen heavy fighting between the two sides for months
A team of UN experts who visited Syria last month to investigate allegations of chemicals weapons had originally planned to visit Khan al-Assal.
However, it ended up focusing on a much larger apparent poison gas attack which killed hundreds of civilians in suburbs of the capital Damascus on August 21.
The new opposition claims come as France bolstered calls for military action in Syria by saying it had evidence the regime was behind the "massive and co-ordinated" chemical attack in Damascus.
Syria's government called the allegations "illogical" and warned it would retaliate if France took military action.
The US government has also said evidence points to deadly sarin gas being used to kill 1,429 people in the August attack.
US President Barack Obama has been meeting political figures such as Senator John McCain as he tries to galvanise support for military strikes ahead of a debate in Congress.
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