Syria warns West against intervention

Good morning Panda

I agree with you wholeheartedly, we don't want them back. having said that we are hemmed in by a load of European directives and ECHR rulings. We are, it has been proved the only country within the EY who obeys all the rules and regulations. every other country picks and chooses the rules it will obey, and those it will not. So I think we would find that refusing them automatic entry would be against their precious human rights. Not that they have any respect for ours. Stripping them of their citizenship, and passports would help. but stolen/forged passports are always available.

Once again I don't know the answer. I think Norman Tebbit was right yesterday on the Andrew Marr show. two cultures are going to clash for dominance very soon, and not only in Britain. Since there can only be one dominant culture. One must knuckle under. the only alternative being war.

katertaif wrote:Good morning Panda

I agree with you wholeheartedly, we don't want them back. having said that we are hemmed in by a load of European directives and ECHR rulings. We are, it has been proved the only country within the EY who obeys all the rules and regulations. every other country picks and chooses the rules it will obey, and those it will not. So I think we would find that refusing them automatic entry would be against their precious human rights. Not that they have any respect for ours. Stripping them of their citizenship, and passports would help. but stolen/forged passports are always available.

Once again I don't know the answer. I think Norman Tebbit was right yesterday on the Andrew Marr show. two cultures are going to clash for dominance very soon, and not only in Britain. Since there can only be one dominant culture. One must knuckle under. the only alternative being war.

Just what is happening to Britain katertaif??? We have no say in how to Govern our Country , the World is in chaos and increasing alarmingly ,yet the Western World has no defence . Those youngsters who went to Syria came from a Council Estate....did they have tuition from their local Mosque or T.V.?
Were their Parents complicit in their plans to go to Syria ? Did they have British Passports.?The Government says it has stripped them of their assets, at 16 yrs of age I doubt they have any. The Border Agency has yet again proved incompetent . If a 16 yr old was flying to Syria, where was the alarm bell ?

In the first and second World Wars, you knew your enemy , not today.!!!

Quite so Panda

Not only Britain but the rest of the world is going to hell in a handcart. It is our own very so called civilised society that has done this. These people are exploiting every loophole in order to establish their own brand of culture. They no longer trouble to deny it. World Islam is the goal.

Don't lame the border agency though. I know one at least who is just as frustrated as we are. They must work within the law. They can do nothing else other than obey the laws our successively more incompetent representatives in Westminster have given them and us for that matter.

All this in a bare 50 years. My government mentioned only yesterday that when we were at school (we went to the same junior school together) that then we never heard the terms Muslim, Islam, Burka, Qur'an etc. etc. Now it's an every day thing. Like I said I think Norman Tebbitt has it right. Unfortunately so. I don't want to see any more wars especially not civil wars but that is what we are heading for.

It doesn't matter who is complicit, the facts are there for all to see. The fact that our friend says the Mosques are not to blame to me means to an extent they are. It isn't the communities/Mosques/peers/parents/schools to blame. Someone must be doing it and providing the money for tickets etc. You have to remember that Islam is the only religion where they are allowed even encouraged to lie.

I see someone has just been sentenced to 50 years in a Saudi Jail for insulting the Kingdom whatever means. These are supposed to be our friends and allies yet Saudi Arabia spends millions on anti western literature, and distributes it throughout the faith schools, AND WE LET THEM!!!! The apologists delight in kicking Israel at every verse end. yet we ignore the laws in Muslim countries. Flogging. stoning. beheading, amputation of limbs, execution for homosexuals etc. That is what sharia means, and that is apparently what the apologists want here. Oh there are only a few of them is the cry. Well the facts say there are a lot more than a few.

These Lads are saying when they get back home the Islam war will come to Britain , not too long ago the Police discovered bomb making facilities in a House near my Sister. I was walking down the road the other day with a friend doing a bit of shopping and we both remarked on the number of Muslim Women and children also shopping .
Lots of shops selling Middle East clothes, when we were growing up , the only Foreigners were African and they lived in the Docks area and you were considered "common" if you went there.   The Docks has been developed so they now live mostly on Council Estates, built for purpose, some Muslim families have 5 bedroom houses.!!!

http://news.sky.com/story/1297319/two-britons-guilty-of-syria-terror-offences

They have been found guilty , but apparently were in contact via e-mail with a Danish lad also wanting to go and fight in Syria. Luckily the Mother of one of them had the sense to go to the Police ...how many more like these lads??? Even in Denmark , surprisingly there are Jihads ready to fight. More vigilance by the Border agency and Local Police is needed , otherwise a few bombs might be detonated here.

Good Afternoon Panda

I absolutely hate to have to say it, but it's only a matter of time before another 7/7.they are constantly plotting more atrocities, and as good as our security services are,, they have to be 100% right, 100% of the time. These terrorists only have to get lucky now and again.

Denmark, and Sweden are even more lax that we are in trying desperately to integrate these terrorists. I won't call them Jihadis, because that implies they are fighting a just and honourable war rather than the terror campaigns that they are.

Again you are slating the border agency, but what can they do? Their hands were tied, even before the swingeing cuts they were subjected to. It's the fault of those who make the laws that the border agency have to abide by. Many of them emanating from Brussels.

It's very frustrating for them, catching an illegal immigrant or someone who has already absconded. Someone working in the black market industry, who will only go round the corner and re-engage themselves as soon as the border agency lets them go, which they have no choice but to do. They are laughing their heads off at us while at the same time slowly but very surely killing the Golden Goose.

Hi Katerfain , actually the Border Agency let a lot of immigrants go while they checked out their Credentials, when they found out they were illegals forging documents the illegals had disappeared. One scam was for teenagers to enter the Country as Students , copying existing permits, the rightfuul Students were paid . I think it more than likely Britain will have another 7/7 because our Intelligence Service is way behind the curve, the Americans had to tell us about the latest anti-detection bombs, otherwise we would never have known. The days of Smiley are gone, the simple reason being that
today's "Terrorist" doesn't care about living , believes it is an honour to die for his beliefs so there is no cat and mouse game , he just charges in.

http://news.sky.com/story/1297356/woman-hid-cash-in-knickers-for-jihadists

That is the second time Turkey has been used to get from the U.K. to Syria ....see how easy it is?

Good evening Panda

It obviously is extremely easy to travel to places like Syria from Turkey. What would be more interesting is finding out where the money comes from to enable them to do it. Could you or I for example land in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language and travel what amounts to the full length of it? They are quite clearly getting help.

On the news tonight again, they used the new buzzword. Those two have been "radicalised". Now lets just forget for a moment where they were radicalised. It does seem awfully easy to radicalise them doesn't it? Almost as if it's in their DNA (which it probably is) That to me is another pointer towards there being a lot more of them than these spokespeople and the apologists would have us believe. I'm not going to be radicalised into something I don't believe in, and I doubt if you are either. It isn't the western way. These people however appear to be normal young men one minute not interested in fighting or particularly religious, and literally within a week or two suddenly change completely, and can't wait to start killing. Something isn't right about it all.

Then as you say it is an honour to die fighting the enemies of Allah. By that definition, almost anyone is a target. It's actually deeper than just an honour. It's a one way sure fire trip to paradise for them. That is why if they truly believe that guff. I can't understand why the leaders like bin Laden, Qatada abu Hamza, Wazihiri, al Baghdadi etc etc are not first in the queue instead of "radicalising" others to do it for them.

As for it being a common sight now to see Guinness bottles on the streets, and the men more suitably dressed for herding sheep in rural Pakistan/Afghanistan etc., that has happened in the last 50 years. bearing in mind that this started virtually from nothing. The next 50 years will be decisive. Norman Tebbitt is right. Theirs is a completely different culture and way of life (as well as death) Theirs and ours cannot both dominate. Personally I think it'll be an extension of them using democracy against us, as they have done already. Look at the mayor of Tower Hamlets for example, our own parliamentary drive to get "balance" As their population increases, they will more and more nominate candidates from Council chamber to Parliament. candidates who again as their numbers rise will change the system to one more to their liking.

katertaif wrote:Good evening Panda

It obviously is extremely easy to travel to places like Syria from Turkey. What would be more interesting is finding out where the money comes from to enable them to do it. Could you or I for example land in a foreign country, where you don't speak the language and travel what amounts to the full length of it? They are quite clearly getting help.

On the news tonight again, they used the new buzzword. Those two have been "radicalised". Now lets just forget for a moment where they were radicalised. It does seem awfully easy to radicalise them doesn't it? Almost as if it's in their DNA (which it probably is) That to me is another pointer towards there being a lot more of them than these spokespeople and the apologists would have us believe. I'm not going to be radicalised into something I don't believe in, and I doubt if you are either. It isn't the western way. These people however appear to be normal young men one minute not interested in fighting or particularly religious, and literally within a week or two suddenly change completely, and can't wait to start killing. Something isn't right about it all.

Then as you say it is an honour to die fighting the enemies of Allah. By that definition, almost anyone is a target. It's actually deeper than just an honour. It's a one way sure fire trip to paradise for them. That is why if they truly believe that guff. I can't understand why the leaders like bin Laden, Qatada abu Hamza, Wazihiri, al Baghdadi etc etc are not first in the queue instead of "radicalising" others to do it for them.

As for it being a common sight now to see Guinness bottles on the streets, and the men more suitably dressed for herding sheep in rural Pakistan/Afghanistan etc., that has happened in the last 50 years. bearing in mind that this started virtually from nothing. The next 50 years will be decisive. Norman Tebbitt is right. Theirs is a completely different culture and way of life (as well as death) Theirs and ours cannot both dominate. Personally I think it'll be an extension of them using democracy against us, as they have done already. Look at the mayor of Tower Hamlets for example, our own parliamentary drive to get "balance" As their population increases, they will more and more nominate candidates from Council chamber to Parliament. candidates who again as their numbers rise will change the system to one more to their liking.

I watched a programme quite recently katertaif about the rise in immigrants in Britain and it was Tony Blair who encouraged immigrants because the economy was doing well and they were seen as cheap Labour , hard workng and not the threat that they are now. Obviously there are many law abiding , hard working immigrants , and jihardists was unheard of , I think it was only in Afghanistan that I remember different names for rebel groups.

A Sony presentation I read about 5 years ago , wish I had kept it , said while the Western World has 2 to 3 children , the Muslims have 5 to 7 so in two generations Muslims will rule the World. What children learn in school today will be obsolete by the time they leave. Sharia Banks are springing up while Britain has lost its reputation for Honest Banking . I'm watchiing the Football, won't tell you the score....very surprising..!!!!LOL

I honestly cannot say whether Blair had worked out the end result of his let 'em all in policy. It has turned out, just like his grandiose scheme of everyone and his brother going to university. That wasn't thought through, by all these wunderkinds with the fantastic salaries.

You mentioned Afghanistan. That is descending into chaos even before the troops pull out. The Taliban have established offices in The Emirates, they want to call it an Embassy, which would not only be an empty title, but would convey diplomatic status.

As I've said, I cannot understand why people want a Saudi Arabian style regime in Britain. They have refined apartheid into something the S. Africans never dreamed of. I have lived in both places, so I think I can safely say the Saudi system is far more degrading. Yet they are allowed to flood Faith schools with what amounts to subversive literature and not only in Britain. They are providing the money for these "mega" Mosques. We are letting them do it, all in the name of diversity If and when the banner of Islam is raised over Downing street, there will be no diversity then. No multiculturism or freedom of expression. Yet we are actively helping them to bring this about.

They only have one argument now, and it comes out of the barrel of an assault rifle. why anyone should think they will change that is beyond me.

IT IS BEING SAID THAT HUNDREDS OF DEMORALISED SYRIAN FIGHTERS HAVE DEFECTED TO ISIS.

Good morning badboy

You certainly keep your finger on the pulse so to speak. Yes, I quite believe that. They were steadily being pushed back, by Assad's forces, and from the point of view that it's always better to be on the winning side. From their standpoint it's a no brainer.

I think the main problem that these people fighting Assad have, is that they have no unified leadership, and how to fight in the most effective manner. They are all what amount to splinter groups each with their own goals and ideas of what Syria will be like post Assad. The chance to kill a few Christians is also hard to pass up. They see it as an insult to their deity to have Christians in a Muslim country.

ISIS or IS as they now prefer to be known offer structured training, a clear goal (global Caliphate which all Muslims aspire to.) A clear chain of command and most importantly for them a string of successes.

I wonder how long before they join up with Hamas to target Israel.

http://news.sky.com/story/1296290/syria-fighter-admits-training-british-teens

This guy was laughing as he saying he trains boys and 16 and 17 years young,

ISIS HAS CAPTURED A OILFIELD AS WELL AS CRUCIFY SOME CHRISTIANS.

Badboy wrote:ISIS HAS CAPTURED A OILFIELD AS WELL AS CRUCIFY SOME CHRISTIANS.

Yes, they have been crucifying Christians in the north in Syria as well. Some were dead before the crucifixion, but some were not.

For all his faults Assad is quite happy to co-exist with Christians, but we seem to have entered a new dark age. G-d knows where it's all going to end.

Panda wrote:http://news.sky.com/story/1296290/syria-fighter-admits-training-british-teens

This guy was laughing as he saying he trains boys and 16 and 17 years young,

when I'm back on my laptop I'll post a link to a picture of Hamas "fighters" on parade. They cannot be any more than about 9 or 10.

REBELS HAVE SHOT DOWN A HELICOPTER OVER ALEPPO.
4 KILLED ON GROUND INCLUDING A CHILD.

Badboy wrote:REBELS HAVE SHOT DOWN A HELICOPTER OVER ALEPPO.
4 KILLED ON GROUND INCLUDING A CHILD.

Syria is being used by a few Rebel Groups Badboy, the escalation of wars around the World is scary and you have to wonder how it will all end.

Badboy wrote:REBELS HAVE SHOT DOWN A HELICOPTER OVER ALEPPO.
4 KILLED ON GROUND INCLUDING A CHILD.

Sounds like some of the captured weaponry is being put into service. They didn't have the capacity or that a few weeks ago. I would still love to know what's happened to these Russian Sukhoi Fighters or the ones flown into Iran and abandoned by Saddam's fearless flyers. Iran was supposed to be refurbishing them for the Iraqis.

REBELS HAVE CAPTURED? AN AIRFORCE BASE NEAR HAMA WHERE BARREL BOMBS WRRE BEING FLOWN TO DROP ON ALEPPO.
ISIS HAVE MADE ADVANCES AGAINST ASSAD'S FORCES IN EAST AND ARE ALSO ADVANCING AGAINST OTHER REBELS TOWARDS ALEPPO.
ISIS IS A SERIOUS CONTENDER IN SYRIA.

Badboy wrote:REBELS HAVE CAPTURED? AN AIRFORCE BASE NEAR HAMA WHERE BARREL BOMBS WRRE BEING FLOWN  TO DROP ON ALEPPO.
ISIS HAVE MADE  ADVANCES AGAINST ASSAD'S FORCES IN EAST AND ARE ALSO ADVANCING AGAINST OTHER  REBELS TOWARDS ALEPPO.
ISIS IS A SERIOUS CONTENDER IN SYRIA.

Good morning Badboy.

I'm a little confused here, have they claimed to have captured another air base? They say they captured Menagh air base near Aleppo in August last year. Since then I can't find any hard record of Assad's forces regaining it, although there are several reports, including one from CNN trying to hint at it.
Although they don't seem to have retaken the air base they have, since last August made significant gains against the rebels.

Apparently elements of ISIS and the al Nusra brigade of terrorists did combine to take the base after a suicide attack on the main gate to distract attention.

I agree that ISIS seem to be the up and coming force to be reckoned with. I put that down to a united leadership, whereas all the other groups are following their own differing agendas, with different interpretations of the Qur'an. Some seem more interested in the presence of Christians in Syria.

having said that there are signs that these others are turning against ISIS because of their extreme interpretation of sharia, and some are unhappy about al Baghdadi arrogating to himself the tribal name of the prophet, al Quraishi. It is that on which he is basing his claim to be the next true Caliph.

Badboy wrote:REBELS HAVE CAPTURED? AN AIRFORCE BASE NEAR HAMA WHERE BARREL BOMBS WRRE BEING FLOWN  TO DROP ON ALEPPO.
ISIS HAVE MADE  ADVANCES AGAINST ASSAD'S FORCES IN EAST AND ARE ALSO ADVANCING AGAINST OTHER  REBELS TOWARDS ALEPPO.
ISIS IS A SERIOUS CONTENDER IN SYRIA.

My deepest apologies badboy. You are indeed better informed that me. They have been trying to capture the base since last August and have finally managed it. I do have a continuing problem with my internet service, and it is sometimes difficult to make out what is written but that is no excuse. once again please accept my apologies

ISIS AND KURDS ARE FIGHTING IN NORTHEAST SYRIA.
AL NUSRA FIGHTING FELLOW REBELS SO THEY CAN ESTABLIH A RIVAL CALIPHATE.

Badboy wrote:ISIS AND KURDS ARE FIGHTING IN NORTHEAST SYRIA.
AL NUSRA FIGHTING FELLOW REBELS SO THEY CAN ESTABLIH A RIVAL CALIPHATE.

Good morning Badboy

You have to wonder what has taken them so long. This is what started the blood feud in the first place, and the reason for their being the two main sects in Islam. Who was the rightful Caliph? Even when the right one (according to the Shi'te version) got the job he was assassinated.

This we have to remember is the religion of love. mercy, and forgiveness. Yet is without any doubt the most intolerant. How is it that so many can interpret the Qur'an so differently sometimes in as little as a few words, yet come to the conclusion that It means killing anyone who disagrees with that interpretation? That includes their own kind.

Even many of their own scholars admit that Islam would not have survived Mohammed if it wasn't for the decree that backsliders were to be killed. That being all these extremists; and there are all too many of them know.