MCCANN CASE TO BE REOPENED.

It seems anything is allowable provided you are being paid to do it, "it's my job." That's what the Nazi prison guards said too. orders...

Brooks has also that the public has a right to know, apparently even the right to know what a dead child's phone and text messages were.

What a sickening individual she is.

SteveT wrote:She would have got away with it if it was not for a security guard spotting her partner trying to hide a laptop in a bin in their secure car park before a police raid. Good man!

Shows the level of their intelligence then. I'd just have taken out the hard drive and thrown it in the river.

widowan wrote:It makes sense that the PJ would want to reopen because SY was reopening.

For one thing, who is this Bundleman they supposedly identified? How was that missed during the investigation? Would the PJ back in May 2007 be held up for criticism because they did not believe Jane saw anything so failed to look for this guy? That was kate's accusation all along.

It makes them look bad; if there is info to be had and discoveries to be made the PJ would want to be doing that themselves so that they are not tarred with the same brush now as in 2007.

THis way they can work together to verify if this information is accurate and not have a white wash that is in place to make the PJ look bad for whatever reason - and if it is not a white wash they would want to be involved because this is a ring of pedophiles which planned to target people in their country, for a child kidnapping... much better to work together to find that than to have SY come in and do it instead of you.

 
widowan, you bring up a good point, and one that I had not thought of myself. Perhaps the "new evidence" is the identification of the man who was Tanner's bundleman/eggman. Very strange that SY have not publicised who this person is, if in fact he does exist. What could be the possible harm in stating who he is? Bundleman would not have been walking in the direction Tanner had stated if he had left the night creche. However, the man could very possibly be Stephen Carpenter who was carrying his 3-yr-old daughter back from the Tapas Bar at around 9:15 - 9:30. The timing and the age of the child are correct. It is equally amazing that none of the Tapas members claim to have seen the Carpenters during any of their checks, despite Tanner, Oldfield, and O'Brien all allegedly checking at this time.

Yes they don't mention that in the Daily Beast when they bash the PJ, and say that McCanns were subjected to an internet hate campaign despite that they were checking their children every half hour. But they weren't! People were outraged because they weren't checking and were lying about it!

915 to 10 isn't a half hour, and in this same article they talk about Mrs Fenn saying that she knew a couple renting there that went in the unlocked doors to comfort Madeleine when she was crying a night or two before. (maybe that's how she got a tea stain on her pajamas)

The parents continue to say they were doing these checks and that they just knew the kids would never wake up until the wee hours if at all.

So much nonsense but all apparently fine to blame the PJ rather than them,  because their daughter was abducted, instead of finding that their behavior was certainly NOT fine, because their daughter was abducted. You  cannot use the abduction as a way to wave off the story changes and waffling and lies and neglect, if even the damn neighbor was more concerned about their children than they were; they were obviously hiding the extent of their neglect and for the 200th time what kind of parent lies about that when the investigation of a pedophile abduction is at stake?!?! . The PJ was right to look more closely, they were not the only force that thought MM died in 5A - those weren't PJ dogs.

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Over the weekend, they were given even more fresh hope after Scotland Yard investigators, reviewing the work of the Portuguese police under a multimillion-dollar shadow investigation called Operation Grange, said they had pinpointed more than 20 “persons of interest” who may have vital information about Madeleine’s disappearance. The list includes many previously known characters, including a troupe of British freelance cleaners whose white van was spotted in the area when she disappeared. But there are also plenty of new names on the list, including a middle-aged mystery couple who supposedly rented a flat near the McCanns during the same period in 2007. The couple, whose names have not been released, told Pamela Fenn, who lived above the McCann rental apartment, that they had opened the unlocked door to the McCanns’ apartment the night before Madeleine disappeared to comfort the young child, whose cries were allegedly audible from their own apartment.


According to Fenn’s statement, it was well known that the McCanns had made it a habit to dine nearby after they put their children to bed, but it was also a common practice by other holidaymakers in the secure gated resort. It also was reportedly common knowledge that the young child’s cries were heard on more than one occasion when her parents were out, according to Fenn’s statement, which is in the Portuguese dossier and thus subject to Scotland Yard’s review.

Fenn, who died two years ago, told Portuguese police about the couple, but because police were so focused on the McCanns as suspects, they apparently did not find the mystery couple’s alleged interference with the missing child relevant. Now Scotland Yard officials reportedly are urging the Portuguese police to reopen the case and find both the mystery couple and the British cleaners. Because of jurisdiction issues, only the Portuguese police can make arrests in the case, which has been officially closed in Portugal since 2008, making it vitally important that they reopen the case to pursue any new evidence laid bare by the Operation Grange detectives.


The British detectives also have pointed to a number of undocumented laborers worth checking out, from clandestine maintenance workers to seasonal gardeners who were working in the black-market economy and who may not have been sufficiently vetted to work in a family resort.

does anyone else find it strange that this report wasn't made public at any time before. surely K or G would have said about the kind couple that cared for Madeleine when she was crying, because she would have undoubtedly told them.

tanszi wrote:does anyone else find it strange that this report wasn't made public at any time before.  surely K or G would have said about the kind couple that cared for Madeleine when she was crying,  because she would have undoubtedly told them.

they were too busy disrespecting Mrs Fenn because she could have and did say that madeleine was crying for what, 75 minutes until they arrived home from the bar one night at 1130 or so? No checks? Proof she woke up well before the "small hours" several nights in a row in fact. People could and did nip in and out it seems with the responsible parents none the wiser.

If this is true, and Mrs Fenn gave this evidence, I am surprised that no one would have thought it important to find them. They'd have been excellent witnesses, along with Mrs Fenn, about what was actually going on in that apt on nights prior and if anyone else was lurking about they'd likely have seen him, her or them.

It's not in mrs fenn statement about the couple consoling Madeleine ...so where did it come from.

So it appears that the mccanns weren't responsible parents if the children were heard crying on other occasions...which leads us back to the millenium doesn't it...did they go, after all, if they didn't check at all on the children then why not go there.


Did Rachel oldfield say that Thursday night was different from the other nights...

kitti wrote:So it appears that the mccanns weren't responsible parents if  the children  were heard crying on other  occasions...which leads us back to the millenium doesn't it...did they go, after all, if they didn't check at all on the children then why not go there.


Did Rachel oldfield say that Thursday night was different from the other nights...

The rogatory statements say that thurs was different because it was not usual for anyone other than the parents to check their own children. That said, it seems to me the McCanns checked only their own children, yet everybody else had a look in on theirs that night. That always struck me as odd. I don't know if it was Rachel who said it, it may be.

My suspicion for the night Mrs Fenn heard the crying is that they were away from the Tapas, having gone to one of the bars to watch the football. I think they ate at the Tapas, then went to a bar showing the match, so no checking at all. Just my guess, not fact.

Kate has always been adamant if her children were to wake it would not be until 2 or 3 am. Nobody can make a statement like that with children, I don't care what anybody tells me. The exception to this in my mind is if they had been given something to help them sleep. It sounds to me like she could gauge exactly how long they would sleep for, given she ha this miraculous cut off time. Again, just my opinion.

The couple appeared in the press I think. If you were passing an apartment and heard a child crying, would you go in ? I think not. What I have wondered is if this fits with the story of them having being called back from a bar because of the crying. Did a couple alert the Ocean Club staff and perhaps their statements are held back ? Perhaps it is the same crying Mrs Fenn heard. Again just opinion not fact. That said, there two nights matches so perhaps they went off to the bar on both nights and you have two nights crying.

kitti wrote:It's not in mrs fenn statement about the couple consoling Madeleine ...so where did it come from.

Someone said that its a forum myth. I read it here. But regardless if anyone who heard the crying actually went in (I would've, after I knocked if no one answered and the door was unlocked!)  she was there & others were there in the evenings to hear that. They didn't want to pay much heed to Mrs Fenn and her "plummy voice" because she had the goods on them.

ETA I just saw it from the paper, reposted here so if it's a myth it's one that was come by honestly/

mossman wrote:

kitti wrote:So it appears that the mccanns weren't responsible parents if  the children  were heard crying on other  occasions...which leads us back to the millenium doesn't it...did they go, after all, if they didn't check at all on the children then why not go there.


Did Rachel oldfield say that Thursday night was different from the other nights...

The rogatory statements say that thurs was different because it was not usual for anyone other than the parents to check their own children.  That said, it seems to me the McCanns checked only their own children, yet everybody else had a look in on theirs that night.  That always struck me as odd.  I don't know if it was Rachel who said it, it may be.

My suspicion for the night Mrs Fenn heard the crying is that they were away from the Tapas, having gone to one of the bars to watch the football.  I think they ate at the Tapas, then went to a bar showing the match, so no checking at all.  Just my guess, not fact.

Kate has always been adamant if her children were to wake it would not be until 2 or 3 am.  Nobody can make a statement like that with children, I don't care what anybody tells me.  The exception to this in my mind is if they had been given something to help them sleep.  It sounds to me like she could gauge exactly how long they would sleep for, given she ha this miraculous cut off time.  Again, just my opinion.

The couple appeared in the press I think.  If you were passing an apartment and heard a child crying, would you go in ?  I think not.  What I have wondered is if this fits with the story of them having being called back from a bar because of the crying.  Did a couple alert the Ocean Club staff and perhaps their statements are held back ?  Perhaps it is the same crying Mrs Fenn heard.  Again just opinion not fact.  That said, there two nights matches so perhaps they went off to the bar on both nights and you have two nights crying.

Rachel's statement may be to imply that had Kate checked her own child that night at 930 the kidnapping might have been discovered earlier, but then, it was her husband doing the bad check, so thanks honey. Besides which at that time they were (and until the Crimewatch came out and with it the news that McCanns had been promoting the wrong abduction scenario for 6 years) thinking Maddie had gone out right under her father's nose two minutes after his check.

Iris wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared

"The f*cking b*stards have taken her!"

Did Kate hear from Madeleine that the night before a couple had been in to see her? Or whom was she referring to with that I wonder?

This paper seems not to be falling for the "PJ bad guys SY good guys" scenario that leaves SY teamed up with McCanns against the evil Portuguese - good for them.

widowan wrote:

Iris wrote:http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400796/Mystery-couple-seen-going-into-McCanns-flat-on-night-before-sobbing-Madeleine-disappeared

"The f*cking b*stards have taken her!"

Did Kate hear from Madeleine that the night before a couple had been in to see her? Or whom was she referring to with that I wonder?

This paper seems not to be falling for the "PJ bad guys SY good guys" scenario that leaves SY teamed up with McCanns against the evil Portuguese - good for them.

Perhaps the alleged couple have come forward and blown the entire McCann story to smithereens?  I wonder if Oakley got wind of said couple during their investigation?  

Alternatively the McCann introduced a fictional couple to explain another one of their big gaffes.  Lies upon lies upon lies.

You just sense that one tiny bit more information, and the entire McCann facade will come tumbling down!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/439464/Portuguese-police-held-their-own-Madeleine-McCann-reconstruction

Portuguese police held their own Madeleine McCann reconstruction
A RECONSTRUCTION by Portuguese detectives of key events on the day Madeleine McCann went missing has helped persuade the country's legal offi-cials to re-open the case, we reveal today.

The detectives, who have been reviewing the case files for two years, went to Praia da Luz on the Algarve a month ago to pursue secret inquiries.

They spent hours walking around the Ocean Club working out where certain people were seen at particular times and at Apartment 5a, from where threeyear-old Madeleine went missing on May 3, 2007.

The exercise was the culmination of months of work by four Portuguese detectives based in Porto in the north of the country, who are directly working for the highly respected senior officer Helen Monteiro, an expert on abduction cases.

It is thought her elite team of dedicated officers has recently been concentrating on statements from witnesses who say they saw unknown people acting suspiciously in the resort around the time the child was missed. The work in Luz came before Scotland Yard released photofits of potential suspects on the BBC's Crimewatch show this month.

Ms Monteiro has insisted all her officers work in absolute secrecy to prevent leaks of their inquiries. It was decided officers in Porto should conduct the review as none had any direct involvement in the first Madeleine McCann investigation and would therefore approach the case with fresh eyes and open minds.

In Portugal, Ms Monteiro is seen as the driving force finally to get the Madeleine case files re-opened after five years, rather than through the efforts of Scotland Yard. She and her team are working separately from the Yard, although there is close liaison between the two.

Yesterday Portuguese Justice Minister Paula Teixeira da Cruz said the decision to reopen the case, taken last week, was due to the work of the Policia Judiciaria and not because of pressure from Scotland Yard. She said: "The PJ developed diligences that allowed for this process to be reopened. Often there are almost perfect crimes and not all of them are discovered all over the world. If the PJ requested the reopening, it has good motives to do so."

Portuguese law officials and senior officers in the PJ have been acutely aware of criticism of the initial police investigation and insist they are determined to solve the case.

Ms Teixeira da Cruz urged people to be "proud" of the work being done by the PJ, which she insisted had not been idle in seeking to solve the mystery.

For a time Madeleine's parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, were seen as arguidos or suspects but that status was lifted. Now they are being kept fully informed of all developments and were given a personal briefing of the work of the PJ in Lisbon last week.

The McCann's Portuguese lawyer, Rogerio Alves, is reportedly seeking for his clients to be "assistants" in the case. This would allow their lawyer to work closely with state prosecutors.

They will also have arguido status once again though, wont' they?

This was all before the efit scandal came out. I can see wanting to have fresh eyes and ears on this but it would not take long before the question would arise, Are you ready to start telling the truth yet?

McCanns wanted to control this for the world and I think being made assistants will give them some false notion that they are Deputies and can continue to do so.

widowan wrote:They will also have arguido status once again though, wont' they?

This was all before the efit scandal came out. I can see wanting to have fresh eyes and ears on this but it would not take long before the question would arise, Are you ready to start telling the truth yet?

McCanns wanted to control this for the world and I think being made assistants will give them some false notion that they are Deputies and can continue to do so.

Deputy Dawg and his bitch of a wife!  

How can you be assistante and arguido at once though? You get to see evidence and have progress reports but yet you have privileges against self incrimination or what does that mean?

They may see things no parent would want to see or hear if they start telling them about pedophile rings. If that's the new leads the PJ have developed...

If they become assistentes will that allow them to discard any evidence that they don't think is important.

MaryB wrote:If they become assistentes will that allow them to discard any evidence that they don't think is important.  

No. They aren't running things, they are able to sit with the prosecution at a trial and suggest questions or something, they get to be kept informed as they too are victims.

They aren't going to hand them evidence and let McCanns decide not to use it, if that's the concern.

I just don't see how the sleeping patterns of Madeleine and the fact that Mrs Fenn heard her awake well before midnight crying alone for 75 minutes can be left out. That means if Mrs F heard and saw it so could the kidnappers and that is germane to the case if they think this was planned.

As with the regularity of checks - none at all, or every 90 minutes, or every 30? It matters. they will have to sit there and track potential pedophile movements or sightings around their apt with their absence from it at key times.

Face the fact that they had evidence from their missing child that she had been awakened, as well, and this did not keep them in. And that despite seeing the door wide open and not as they left it, Gerry blithely left the apt again not even really looking around or wondering why that would be the case if all 3 kids were soundly asleep. Who did he think had opened the door? A ghost?

Aye, the ghost of George Harrison, if some of these e-fits are to be believed.

Just read this on TCMOMM

Maddie: investigates Judicial track suspicious dead Ex-employee of the Ocean Club's prime suspect in the abduction of the girl. Details to follow with the Correia da Manha, Portugal

Quelle surprise!

Is he a PAEDO?

How can they interview a dead person or are they going on 'hearsay'.

kitti wrote:How can they interview a dead person or are they going on 'hearsay'.

Well the Mccanns already seem to rule heaven and earth kitti, so no doubt they can speak to all those souls in his heaven and give the PJ the answers. It's just to be hoped this dead man didn't go down below, although I wouldn't be surprised to learn they had made a pact with the devil as well.