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Officers from the Metropolitan Police have also identified three potential suspects they want to talk to, not necessarily around Madeleine's disappearance, but who had been involved in break-ins in the area.

And that probably explains why they have been refused.

jinvta wrote:LJC, you forgot this part:

"Reasonable suspicion’ means that the person making the arrest must actually have suspicion and also that the suspicion is on reasonable grounds. If the arresting person is acting on instructions he or she must have enough information to believe there are reasonable grounds for suspicion. This will always be a question of fact in the particular circumstances. It could be, for instance, that knowledge that the arrested person had an opportunity to commit the offence is reasonable grounds for suspicion."

A hunch that burglars suddenly turned into child abductors is not a very reasonable suspicion, now is it? In fact, most would consider it to be extremely far-fetched.

Based on this basis of reasonable suspicion, the only people I would expect to be behind bars right now are the McCanns themselves.

I don't think this is a hunch that SY have. It is reported that these are ex-employees of Ocean Club who have committed a string of burglaries. That would/should arouse reasonable grounds of suspicion.

Its not that I believe these people have committed anything more than break ins but they have this hanging over them now and it would be good to at least eliminate them properly or discover something more about them which could progress this investigation.

so every burglar is going to be questioned even though not linked to Madeleines disappearance, and the Met are not happy because they've been refused, really? clutching at straws again. How about every time a child disappears in the UK the police go charging after every burglar in the area. sounds sensible to me NOI.

How about the Met get the parents in again and ask them a lot of questions about that night and the discrepancies since in the media, tv programmes, articles and books. I

LJC wrote:

jinvta wrote:LJC, you forgot this part:

"Reasonable suspicion’ means that the person making the arrest must actually have suspicion and also that the suspicion is on reasonable grounds. If the arresting person is acting on instructions he or she must have enough information to believe there are reasonable grounds for suspicion. This will always be a question of fact in the particular circumstances. It could be, for instance, that knowledge that the arrested person had an opportunity to commit the offence is reasonable grounds for suspicion."

A hunch that burglars suddenly turned into child abductors is not a very reasonable suspicion, now is it? In fact, most would consider it to be extremely far-fetched.

Based on this basis of reasonable suspicion, the only people I would expect to be behind bars right now are the McCanns themselves.

I don't think this is a hunch that SY have. It is reported that these are ex-employees of Ocean Club who have committed a string of burglaries.  That would/should arouse reasonable grounds of suspicion.  

Its not that I believe these people have committed anything more than break ins but they have this hanging over them now and it would be good to at least eliminate them properly or discover something more about them which could progress this investigation.

How dare Redwood use Madeleine's disappearance as an excuse to investigate these burglars, when there was no evidence anyone other than the McCanns and their mates, entered their apartment.

Anyone with half a brain, knows that if a would be burglar enters someone's property, they work at speed, which means they have to empty drawers and cupboards where they think there maybe something worth taking, as quickly as possible. They don't tidy up after themselves.

The photographs of the McCanns apartment, shows no evidence of a burglary or even an abduction. If Madeleine had been lifted out of her bed, by an abductor, her bedding would have been dishevelled. According to the photographs, Madeleine's bed looked like it had never been slept in.

Redwood and his team, are desperate to find someone to take the blame for Madeleine's disappearance and desperate times, call for desperate measures. He has tried and failed to brainwash the PJ, into believing he wants to investigate these burglars, because they may lead him to whoever took Madeleine. The Portuguese Authority know the real reason why Redwood and his team want to investigate these burglars and it isn't to find out what happened to Madeleine, it's to find a scapegoat to take the blame for whatever happened to Madeleine.

I'm really glad the Portuguese Authorities have taken this stand against Redwood and his team, now I think they should go further and tell the British Government, that if there is any investigating to do, it will be done by the PJ.

oh kathybelle I so agree with you and I wish Portugal would do just that.

tanszi wrote:oh kathybelle I so agree with you and I wish Portugal would do just that.

Hi Tanszi

I'd love to think that the reason Redwood and his team have been barred from investigating these burglars, is because the Portuguese Authority know, that Redwood is looking for at least one scapegoat, to take the blame for Madeleine's disappearance.

Who does Redwood think he is? I know what he isn't, he isn't a good copper and neither are his side kicks. All they've done, since the review started, is look at the files and insinuate that the PJ missed vital evidence. If the PJ missed vital evidence, what's the evidence doing in the files? The files contain the facts of the case and those facts are as a result of the PJ's investigation. That's the way I see it.

Even if  Redwood and his team have discovered vital evidence, that the PJ missed, they haven't acted on it. All Redwood has done, is speak to the media and keep the McCanns informed of his latest moves. Redwood even made it plainly obvious that he and his team were looking for one or more scapegoats, to take the blame for Madeleine's disappearance, when he announced to the media, that the McCanns and their mates, were not persons of interest to he and his team.

If Redwood was a good copper, he would say nothing to the media, about people he was and wasn't interested in. In fact he wouldn't be discussing any aspect of this investigation.

Martin Brunt asked by Eamonn - what will be different this time? - Brunty repsonds we will see people on the ground as the dig has been approved - in areas that were flagged up to the PJ over the years. SY feel alot of the excavation that were not done at the time 3 to 4 viable sites - SY team arrived yesterday will meet PJ in Faro this morning - they will plan the next stage. At the moment two sides need to sit down and determine where and when these digs will happen

End

UK has gone mad.
From twitter:


Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 22h
Portuguese media: Met police refused permission to search homes of burglary suspects in investigation into Madeleine McCann's disappearance

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JULIAN BRAY UK ‏@JULIANBRAY 22h
@SkyNewsBreak Simple UK to block all EU Aid to Portugal, if they won't protect UK subjects. Hague do something!!! #MadeleineMcCann

British police investigating Madeleine McCann's disappearance have reportedly been refused permission to search the homes of three burglary suspects.

Notice the word "homes", not grounds............big difference, what did SY expect to find in these "Homes".

Panda wrote:British police investigating Madeleine McCann's disappearance have reportedly been refused permission to search the homes of three burglary suspects.

Notice the word "homes", not grounds............big difference, what did SY expect to find in these "Homes".

Maybe they would 'find' *gough* a hair from Maddie....*gouch*

SY have REPORTEDLY been refused permission...

The wheat from the chaff is the PJ & SY are getting on just fine & are working together on the ground in Portugal right now to find out what HAPPENED to Madeleine McCann

matthew wrote:SY have REPORTEDLY been refused permission...

The wheat from the chaff is the PJ & SY are getting on just fine & are working together on the ground in Portugal right now to find out what HAPPENED to Madeleine McCann

What if they find nothing though Matthew ??? Will the Portugese close the case? No case has been so expensive to investigate which after 7 years has not created one single clue.

i think this is going to be the end anyway panda last throw of the dice , we tried and we cannot find her if they get nothing and both portugal and the uk closing the case , one thing that they have now realised they wont find a alive madeleine , come what may this will be the beginning of the end

The answer to what happened to Madeleine McCann, lies with the McCanns, they are the main suspects.

If the powers that be, can't or won't investigate them again, then the case might as well be closed. It's an insult to Madeleine's memory, to look for anyone, who may or may not have played a part in her disappearance, if the McCanns who are the root cause of Madeleine's disappearance, are allowed to escape justice.

cass wrote:i think this is going to be the end anyway panda last throw of the dice , we tried and we cannot find her if they get nothing and both portugal and the uk closing the case , one thing that they have now realised they wont find a alive madeleine , come what may this will be the beginning of the end

Morning Cass, kate has said that if this investigation does not find anything, which it may not, she will have to accept that Madeleine will never be found.

Great store is being set that this Radar will find some kind of evidence that Madeleine was buried in one of the sites , if nothing is found the case MUST be closed .!!!

Panda wrote:

cass wrote:i think this is going to be the end anyway panda last throw of the dice , we tried and we cannot find her if they get nothing and both portugal and the uk closing the case , one thing that they have now realised they wont find a alive madeleine , come what may this will be the beginning of the end

Morning Cass, kate has said that if this investigation does not find anything, which it may not, she will have to accept that Madeleine will never be found.

Great store is being set that this Radar will find some kind of evidence that Madeleine was buried in one of the sites , if nothing is found the case MUST be closed .!!!

I doubt very much that Madeleine's body will be found in one of these sites. Whoever removed Madeleine's body from apartment 5a, will have made sure that she was never going to be found.

If she was buried, she would have been buried miles away from the area. No one was going to risk burying Madeleine, so close to apartment 5a.

By the way, good morning Panda.   

Eddie and Keela already searched the areas anywAy.

tanszi wrote:so every burglar is going to be questioned even though not linked to Madeleines disappearance, and the Met are not happy because they've been refused, really?  clutching at straws again.  How about every time a child disappears in the UK the police go charging after every burglar in the area.  sounds sensible to me NOI.

How about the Met get the parents in again and ask them a lot of questions about that night and the discrepancies since in the media, tv programmes, articles and books.  I

Tanszi   

But they don't want to chase after every burglar. No one has suggested SY wish to go charging after every burglar. It is reported that SY have drawn up a short list of people they wish to know more about and, considering they had such a large number of persons of interest, they have whittled it down to certain ex employees of Ocean Club who are burglary suspects (which has to be at least considered a link to this case).

Its obvious that SY have different parameters to work with in the UK than they do in Portugal and I do sincerely believe that in the UK search warrants may have been granted for these handful of individuals if this had happened on British soil. Its fair enough that Portugal have their own set of parameters and the Portuguese system has to be respected but I am hopeful that now SY have arrived in Portugal all sides will sit down together and decide on a way forward to hopefully progress matters (even if it means eliminating persons of interest or geographic sites of interest.)

LJC I feel differently. i do not think that police would be granted search warrants for burglars houses in the UK which are not proved to be linked to a childs abduction. You say that they had a large number of persons of interest but have whittled them down. Bearing in mind the headlines about who they wanted to interview and why, it doesn't seem that they had much to whittle down. its all spin to try and justify the massive amount of money being spent. there has never been a case where the UK police actively gave a running commentary to the media and public about what was happening, the suspects they had and how many arrests are imminent and nothing happening. I have a very different view on what the UK police want. Surely the way forward has already been agreed with the sites of interest that are going to be looked at with radar and excavated, oh and weren't dogs mentioned. Are you sure the people on the ground discuss and agree what is to be done where, surely they will only carry out the investigations that have been agreed by the AG in Portugal.

tanszi wrote:LJC I feel differently.  i do not think that police would be granted search warrants for burglars houses in the UK which are not proved to be linked to a childs abduction.  You say that they had a large number of persons of interest but have whittled them down.  Bearing in mind the headlines about who they wanted to interview and why, it doesn't seem that they had much to whittle down.  its all spin to try and justify the massive amount of money being spent.  there has never been a case where the UK police actively gave a running commentary to the media and public about what was happening, the suspects they had and how many arrests are imminent and nothing happening.  I have a  very different view on what the UK police want.  Surely the way forward has already been agreed with the sites of interest that are going to be looked at with radar and excavated, oh and weren't dogs mentioned.  Are you sure the people on the ground discuss and agree what is to be done where, surely they will only carry out the investigations that have been agreed by the AG in Portugal.

One link here and one link there does not amount of proof. Links are certain chains of events which may form a pattern of activity in an enquiry. Where a pattern is identified the link strengthens. SY may have to do more work around these 3 individuals to try to maximise the information they already have about them before the Portuguese will agree to searches of their homes.

So far as the whittle down of suspects is concerned, I think there would be other people of interest who are on file but perhaps its about prioritising them in order of interest. At the moment these 3 people are more of a priority for SY.

I think yes, authorisations to carry out certain work will have been acquired beforehand but this will not be the last visit to Portugal made by UK detectives and part of their time in Portugal will involve discussing future strategies and I do believe these 3 suspects will form a basis for discussions.

we just need to agree to disagree LJC and wait and see as we have for the last 7 years. imo

regarding digging in portugal they must have a reason and where to look ive said before i think it may have already have been done , also in the west case and many more they usually have persons of interest in custody dont they , wonder if the information given from someone will lead to arrests before digging starts , if i was told they were digging for my child i would be there if i had to crawl over hot coals , kerry was in greece for ben many a time , who is there from the mcanns and family ? this tells me its already been done , and portugal and sy can get on and work forward , has there been press in rothley ? if not why not

The 'burglars' aren't being interviewed and their house or bank account won't be looked into because the PJ know the 'burglars' had nothing to do with Madeleines disappearance, simple as that.

im quite sure that if it was my child I would also be out there wanting to know the exact spot so I could go there at the earliest opportunity. even if it was speculation I would go, regardless of whether I had the funds to do so or not.

tanszi wrote:im quite sure that if it was my child I would also be out there wanting to know the exact spot so I could go there at the earliest opportunity.  even if it was speculation I would go, regardless of whether I had the funds to do so or not.

Yes! and in the first instance I would have answered any and all questions put to me by the police. I also would have parked myself on the doorstep of the police station demanding they find her. Also, I would not feel a need to lawyer up and to solicit donations to the fund I set up.