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Scottish independence referendum

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Post  katertaif Thu 4 Sep - 11:29

It seems that if the Scots vote YES there are a growing number of Conservative MP's lobbying to get Cameron to delay the general election by a year. The question being why?

In a general election next year it would make no difference. Scottish MP's would still be eligible and might swing the balance to forming a Labour government. A year further on they would not be eligible and barring UKIP coming up on the rails there would almost certainly be a conservative government for the foreseeable future.

Just when we thought they could sink no lower.

The good news apparently being that the Lords can block any such legislation for a year so it becomes meaningless.

What I'm not sure about is what would happen to a Scottish labour MP elected next year and then when the split comes in 2016 s/he would effectively have no constituency. Equally therefore what happens if we get a labour Government next year and then they lose 40 odd seats from Scotland the next year and lose their majority?

No wonder Alastair darling is desperate in his NO campaign and his head to heads with Alec Salmond. he might not have a job at all. I agree with him albeit for different reasons. I sincerely hope Scotland votes NO. I think we are better together.
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Post  Angelina Thu 4 Sep - 12:06

katertaif wrote:It seems that if the Scots vote YES there are a growing number of Conservative MP's lobbying to get Cameron to delay the general election by a year. The question being why?

In a general election next year it would make no difference. Scottish MP's would still be eligible and might swing the balance to forming a Labour government. A year further on they would not be eligible and barring UKIP coming up on the rails there would almost certainly be a conservative government for the foreseeable future.

Just when we thought they could sink no lower.

The good news apparently being that the Lords can block any such legislation for  a year so it becomes meaningless.

What I'm not sure about is what would happen to a Scottish labour MP elected next year and then when the split comes in 2016 s/he would effectively have no constituency. Equally therefore what happens if we get a labour Government next year and then they lose 40 odd seats from Scotland the next year and lose their majority?

No wonder Alastair darling is desperate in his NO campaign and his head to heads with Alec Salmond. he might not have a job at all. I agree with him albeit for different reasons. I sincerely hope Scotland votes NO. I think we are better together.

So far I've only been able to find an article that says Angus Robertson is calling for the election to be delayed so that if there is a Yes vote there would be time for things to be sorted out re the split.

The questions you raise here are exactly the same as ones raised in a discussion I had with others over the weekend.

My gut feeling is it will be a no vote by a slim majority.

I have been following the debates etc to some extent but being English have not watched events anywhere near as closely as if I was a Scot. I am wondering whether those being asked to make such a huge, possibly life-changing situation, have been given enough information to make an informed decision.
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Post  katertaif Thu 4 Sep - 16:33

Angelina wrote:
katertaif wrote:It seems that if the Scots vote YES there are a growing number of Conservative MP's lobbying to get Cameron to delay the general election by a year. The question being why?

In a general election next year it would make no difference. Scottish MP's would still be eligible and might swing the balance to forming a Labour government. A year further on they would not be eligible and barring UKIP coming up on the rails there would almost certainly be a conservative government for the foreseeable future.

Just when we thought they could sink no lower.

The good news apparently being that the Lords can block any such legislation for  a year so it becomes meaningless.

What I'm not sure about is what would happen to a Scottish labour MP elected next year and then when the split comes in 2016 s/he would effectively have no constituency. Equally therefore what happens if we get a labour Government next year and then they lose 40 odd seats from Scotland the next year and lose their majority?

No wonder Alastair darling is desperate in his NO campaign and his head to heads with Alec Salmond. he might not have a job at all. I agree with him albeit for different reasons. I sincerely hope Scotland votes NO. I think we are better together.

So far I've only been able to find an article that says Angus Robertson is calling for the election to be delayed so that if there is a Yes vote there would be time for things to be sorted out re the split.  

The questions you raise here are exactly the same as ones raised in a discussion I had with others over the weekend.

My gut feeling is it will be a no vote by a slim majority.


I have been following the debates etc to some extent but being English have not watched events anywhere near as closely as if I was a Scot.  I am wondering whether those being asked to make such a huge, possibly life-changing situation, have been given enough information to make an informed decision.

I couldn't agree more Angelina. The article was on Reuters this morning. Have they been given enough information. A very good question, and I suspect the answer is no. Can anyone be given enough information on as you so rightly say such a life changing decision? Nothing in Scotland will be the same again and the politicals will be in an uproar.

I agree with you that it will be a No vote with not much in it. That will encourage Salmond and company to come out with all the usual excuses. We didn't have time to get our message across. people didn't quite get what we were saying etc. Then start lobbying for a new referendum a la Eire. I see Milliband's battle cry this afternoon was independence but not yet.

Personally I would hate to see it happen. Then Like you I have no say.

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Post  Guest Thu 4 Sep - 17:22

The information is there, if people are willing to go out and look for it. What we don't need are patronising politicians, telling us that we are too stupid to make our own decisions. Or appalling TV commercials of stupid (fictitious) women who don't have time to worry about politics because they're too busy dishing out breakfast cereal.

Myself and my entire household are all voting YES by the way.

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Post  Angelina Thu 4 Sep - 17:26

Iris wrote:The information is there, if people are willing to go out and look for it.  What we don't need are patronising politicians, telling us that we are too stupid to make our own decisions.  Or appalling TV commercials of stupid (fictitious) women who don't have time to worry about politics because they're too busy dishing out breakfast cereal.  

Myself and my entire household are all voting YES by the way.


Have you got any doubts or was it an easy decision for you?
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Post  Guest Thu 4 Sep - 17:29

No doubt at all.  None. I worked in London for 2 years and I know exactly what they think of us.
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Post  Angelina Thu 4 Sep - 17:32

Iris wrote:No doubt at all.  None.  I worked in London for 2 years and I know exactly what they think of us.

Who do you think will get the majority vote?
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Post  Guest Thu 4 Sep - 17:35

Sadly, the NOs, but there won't be much in it. I hope I'm wrong. I may well be, because the YES campaign seem to be winning the TV debates, no question. But there are still too many people around who believe in tripe like this -

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/patronising-bt-woman#14s3dwh

Play the video and you'll see what the NO campaign really think of us.
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Post  Angelina Thu 4 Sep - 17:38

Iris wrote:Sadly, the NOs, but there won't be much in it.  I hope I'm wrong.  I may well be, because the YES campaign seem to be winning the TV debates, no question.  But there are still too many people around who believe in tripe like this -

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/patronising-bt-woman#14s3dwh

Play the video and you'll see what the NO campaign really think of us.

I've already seen it.
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Post  katertaif Thu 4 Sep - 23:34

Iris wrote:No doubt at all.  None.  I worked in London for 2 years and I know exactly what they think of us.

I know exactly what you mean Iris although I never worked there I have been there a few times. Coming originally from Middlesbrough I was almost invariably called a Geordie. They would have thought me terribly ignorant though  if I'd called them all Cockneys.

There were times I felt I should be covered in woad brandishing a spear. and proudly displaying my scars from my triumphant fights with wolves. Perhaps with a necklace of Missionary heads.

Fortunately they are not all like that any more than I'm a Geordie
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Post  katertaif Sat 6 Sep - 23:41

Iris wrote:The information is there, if people are willing to go out and look for it.  What we don't need are patronising politicians, telling us that we are too stupid to make our own decisions.  Or appalling TV commercials of stupid (fictitious) women who don't have time to worry about politics because they're too busy dishing out breakfast cereal.  

Myself and my entire household are all voting YES by the way.


Good evening Iris

I see there is a poll (it doesn't say which one) that for the first time has put the "Yes" vote in front, 51% to 49% for "no"
As you know I wouldn't like to see it but I can well understand when you talk of patronising politicians. The ones who think we are too immature to understand their lofty ideals and there are all too many of those. Of course whichever way it goes they will be out in force claiming they didn't get their message across properly (audience too thick to understand) or starting the mechanism for another referendum like Eire had to have

I think too that many have rumbled that those claiming to be firm believers in the Union are firmer in their belief that they will be out of a job if Scotland goes independent.

I honestly also believe that the member for Kircaldy and Cowdenbeath one G. Brown would not be re elected no matter what the result of the referendum. He hasn't been representing the people there for some time being more interested in writing his memoirs and trying to follow Blair as an after dinner speaker. For him to weigh in on the side of no at this stage would I believe alienate many Scots. Still only another few days and we'll see what happens.
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Post  Badboy Sun 7 Sep - 0:15

EU SAYS THERE WILL NOT ADMIT SCOTLAND UNLESS THEY HAVE A CENTRAL BANK.
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Post  Panda Sun 7 Sep - 9:31

JUST DISCUSSED ON SKY NEWS

If Scotland wins independence

Scotland will have its own currency which cannot be used in the U.K. the way it is now.

Borders will have to be erected.

Universities will be affected because English students will have to pay Scotland and vice versa.

there were other comments on the EU implications.

Defence will be an issue


The opinion was that this hasn't been thought through properly.

I have no opinion on independence for Scotland , just hope that if the ayes have it the breakaway succeeds.

Wales has partial independence and the population has no intention of wanting total independence , but doesn't have oil. Scottish independence referendum 25346
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Post  Guest Sun 7 Sep - 9:42

Sky just broadcasts a load of rubbish and we should all know that by now.

The only reason Labour are backing the No campaign is because they know damn well that they will NEVER get elected to Westminster ever again, without Scottish votes. There is quite a large faction of the Scottish Labour Party that are supporting the Yes campaign.
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Post  Guest Sun 7 Sep - 10:07

Iris wrote:Sky just broadcasts a load of rubbish and we should all know that by now.

The only reason Labour are backing the No campaign is because they know damn well that they will NEVER get elected to Westminster ever again, without Scottish votes.  There is quite a large faction of the Scottish Labour Party that are supporting the Yes campaign.

well, damn... Scottish independence referendum 294124
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Post  katertaif Sun 7 Sep - 10:54

Iris wrote:Sky just broadcasts a load of rubbish and we should all know that by now.

The only reason Labour are backing the No campaign is because they know damn well that they will NEVER get elected to Westminster ever again, without Scottish votes.  There is quite a large faction of the Scottish Labour Party that are supporting the Yes campaign.

Good morning Iris

Exactly so; I believe they are looking out for themselves rather than any deep seated idealistic notions of what is best for Scotland. Alastair Darling for example did well in his first head to head with Salmond because Salmond had not really prepared for that side of the discussion. The second head to head went sour because Salmond now had the response and Darling had prepared no other argument. he may as well have come right out with it and said "what about me if the vote is yes"?

I believe there are some 48 Scottish labour MP's in Westminster. I don't doubt that some of their concern will be for the labour party to suffer such an upheaval but once again that comes down to if it's bad for the party it's bad for me. Doubtless some will be parachuted into safe seats but the majority will either have to attempt to contend in Scottish politics, or write their memoirs earlier than planned.

That may all sound as if I don't care which way it goes. I do care as you know but since I have no possible say I may as well try to be objective.
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Post  Panda Mon 8 Sep - 7:55

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Post  Guest Mon 8 Sep - 19:17

maybe it's just me but i don't think this whole thing has been very well thought through. independence means just that. on your own. period. i'm not sure that's what it means to the yes lobby.
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Post  Panda Mon 8 Sep - 19:47

Marky wrote:maybe it's just me but i don't think this whole thing has been very well thought through. independence means just that. on your own. period. i'm not sure that's what it means to the yes lobby.
Scottish independence referendum 25346

I agree, I hope more independence etc Cameron is offering will be enough to get a No vote......the EU said a while go that it would not recognise Scotland as a seperate Country. Wales wanted independence few years ago but there was no referendum, the Labour Government
gave more autonomy and increased the Welsh Budget and it has worked. The closure of the Coal Mines was harsh but Wales is doing quite well , attracting more Companies to do business here ....but like the rest of the U.K. the number of immigrants is frightening, if only all the illegals could be found and sent back to their own Country . Scottish independence referendum 303636
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Post  Guest Mon 8 Sep - 21:04

Panda wrote:
Marky wrote:maybe it's just me but i don't think this whole thing has been very well thought through. independence means just that. on your own. period. i'm not sure that's what it means to the yes lobby.
Scottish independence referendum 25346

I agree, I hope  more independence etc Cameron is offering will  be enough to get a No vote......the EU said a while go that it would not recognise Scotland as a seperate Country.  Wales wanted independence  few years ago but there was no referendum, the Labour Government
gave more autonomy and increased the Welsh  Budget and it has worked. The closure of the Coal Mines was harsh but Wales is doing quite well , attracting more Companies to do business here ....but like the rest of the U.K. the number of immigrants is frightening, if only all the illegals could be found and sent back to their own Country . Scottish independence referendum 303636

Rubbish. What they said was that an independent Scotland would have to negotiate to rejoin.

Cameron is a liar and it's very strange that he's suddenly offering all these "extra" powers (although nobody has actually said what they are) when the prospect of a Yes result has got him and his cronies scared witless.
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Post  katertaif Tue 9 Sep - 0:31

Iris wrote:
Panda wrote:
Marky wrote:maybe it's just me but i don't think this whole thing has been very well thought through. independence means just that. on your own. period. i'm not sure that's what it means to the yes lobby.
Scottish independence referendum 25346

I agree, I hope  more independence etc Cameron is offering will  be enough to get a No vote......the EU said a while go that it would not recognise Scotland as a seperate Country.  Wales wanted independence  few years ago but there was no referendum, the Labour Government
gave more autonomy and increased the Welsh  Budget and it has worked. The closure of the Coal Mines was harsh but Wales is doing quite well , attracting more Companies to do business here ....but like the rest of the U.K. the number of immigrants is frightening, if only all the illegals could be found and sent back to their own Country . Scottish independence referendum 303636

Rubbish.  What they said was that an independent Scotland would have to negotiate to rejoin.

Cameron is a liar and it's very strange that he's suddenly offering all these "extra" powers (although nobody has actually said what they are) when the prospect of a Yes result has got him and his cronies scared witless.

Unfortunately Iris you make a great deal of sense. I say unfortunately because I believe we are better together. As you say these extra powers have not been defined. It seems a moot point anyway since the way they are talking Scotland will be independent in all but name anyway if they vote No.

As you say an independent Scotland would have to renegotiate it's terms of membership with the EU. I think the cracks are beginning to show in both camps with neither of them having thought it fully and completely through. I very much dislike the way Brown has resurfaced. He has not been representing his constituents for some considerable time now and I believe he will do more harm than good because of that. As for Cameron being a liar show me a modern British politician who isn't. The days of standing for election in order to represent the constituency in as fair and honest a manner as possible are long gone.
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Post  katertaif Tue 9 Sep - 0:55

Iris wrote:
Panda wrote:
Marky wrote:maybe it's just me but i don't think this whole thing has been very well thought through. independence means just that. on your own. period. i'm not sure that's what it means to the yes lobby.
Scottish independence referendum 25346

I agree, I hope  more independence etc Cameron is offering will  be enough to get a No vote......the EU said a while go that it would not recognise Scotland as a seperate Country.  Wales wanted independence  few years ago but there was no referendum, the Labour Government
gave more autonomy and increased the Welsh  Budget and it has worked. The closure of the Coal Mines was harsh but Wales is doing quite well , attracting more Companies to do business here ....but like the rest of the U.K. the number of immigrants is frightening, if only all the illegals could be found and sent back to their own Country . Scottish independence referendum 303636

Rubbish.  What they said was that an independent Scotland would have to negotiate to rejoin.

Cameron is a liar and it's very strange that he's suddenly offering all these "extra" powers (although nobody has actually said what they are) when the prospect of a Yes result has got him and his cronies scared witless.

A case in point Iris. I had just looked at the news and Reuters are carrying the story that G. Brown has unveiled plans to "rush through" legislation designed to head of a Yes vote. Now there is no way that this these new revelations have been thought through in any way at all. Brown claims it's to prevent a yes vote. In his case bearing in mind his record since the last election Ah'm no sae sure at a'.
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Post  Guest Tue 9 Sep - 7:43

anyways, it's not been very well thought thru in fact i'd go so far to say the yes lobby has been focused on the romance of it all. should they get their way next week that's when the blood will start appearing on the walls.
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Post  AnnaEsse Tue 9 Sep - 11:01

Now, this is interesting, in Hong Kong currency exchange company Mega Foreign Exchange listed the Scottish pound in its exchange rates, valuing it higher than the English pound. Yesterday it was offering HK$11.50 for a Scottish pound but HK$11.30 for an English one.

Scottish independence referendum Scottish-pound

http://shaunynews.com/2014/09/08/scottish-pound-now-worth-more-than-the-english-pound/

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Post  katertaif Tue 9 Sep - 12:07

AnnaEsse wrote:Now, this is interesting, in Hong Kong currency exchange company Mega Foreign Exchange listed the Scottish pound in its exchange rates, valuing it higher than the English pound. Yesterday it was offering HK$11.50 for a Scottish pound but HK$11.30 for an English one.

Scottish independence referendum Scottish-pound

http://shaunynews.com/2014/09/08/scottish-pound-now-worth-more-than-the-english-pound/

Very interesting as you say. It seems there are going to be some unforeseen happenings no matter which way the vote goes.
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