The E1.7 billion the EU demands by Britain

Iris wrote:

Marky wrote:

Iris wrote:

Marky wrote:

Iris wrote:
It's not that we aren't bothered Lioned, just that some of us have just given up.

interesting remark. would like to see some flesh on that one. hopefully.

I very seldom post on this forum now, usually I can be found on Twitter or Maddie McCann Mystery.  I too am sick of reading racist posts and "jokes" and threads where the headline says something completely at odds with the link given.  I lost interest in this forum some time ago and it's not just because there's little movement on the McCann case at the moment.  I'd rather see a sparse forum than one full of rubbish and sadly, that's what this is becoming.

you still wearing saltire panties?

That is for me to know and for you to find out!

aw come on. it's getting cold. i can't be doing siting outside watching your wash line much longer. go on, pretty please. with sugar on top.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29944564

Cameron to attend a meeting today with EU to discuss this EU1.7 Billion , likely to get cool reception.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11215420/EU-surcharge-deadline-to-be-delayed-until-after-the-general-election.html

Presumably Cameron is going to do a deal with the EU and pay , but after he is re-elected....arrogant b***ard thinks he is going to win. i If he doesn,t someone else will have to sortout the mess. This is manna for the UKIP Party .

Panda wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29944564

Cameron to attend a meeting today with EU to discuss this EU1.7 Billion , likely to get  cool reception.

Cool won't be the word Panda, glacial might cover it. Bearing in mind how many "member" states are in it purely for what they can get out of it, and given that they all have an equal say. It should be a very er, interesting meeting. I wouldn't be greatly surprised if the amount were to be lowered, I imagine they already have a figure in mind, a bit like haggling in the souk. Cameron will agree to pay the lesser amount, and hail it as a great victory for us.

Yes, I thnk you are right....where does that leave any hope of leaving the Union??? He is such a wimp, he should have demanded to see the Accounting method used to work out the contributions for every Member Country before he pays a penny. Britain and Germany have always been the highest contributors , with Italy rioting against Poverty
and another 7 EU Countries in dire straits .....who knows what will happen .

It would seem the accounting practice favours the poor and taxes the rich and the system will never work ...the EURO is floundering it ws a big mistake, you can never have a one size fits all .

Panda wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11215420/EU-surcharge-deadline-to-be-delayed-until-after-the-general-election.html

Presumably Cameron is going to do a deal with the EU and pay , but after he is re-elected....arrogant b***ard thinks he is going to win. i  If he doesn,t someone else will have to sortout the mess. This is manna for the UKIP Party .

Yes Panda I agree with you. They probably already have a lowest amount in mind say £1.2 billion for the sake of this discussion. Cameron will - reluctantly I'm sure agree to pay it, but after December the 1st. It will then be held up as a great victory for common sense and further proof of the good things awaiting us if we vote the conservatives back in next year.

The Half billion that is thus "saved" will I'm sure guarantee ever so many jobs in the NHS. or rail link 2 or whatever. I'm sure we'll be told that as well.

Such a paucity of talent in Government (except for my mate Boris ) what is it going to take to bring about change in Britain so badly needed.?

Panda wrote:Yes, I thnk you are right....where does that leave any hope of leaving the Union??? He is such a wimp, he should have demanded to see the Accounting method used to work out the contributions for every Member Country before he pays a penny. Britain and Germany have  always been the highest contributors , with Italy rioting against Poverty
and another 7 EU Countries in dire straits .....who knows what will happen .

It would seem the accounting practice favours the poor and taxes the rich and the system will never work ...the EURO is floundering  it ws a big mistake, you can never have a one size fits all .

Your one size fits all is quite apposite in this case. Yes it could have been done, in a much longer time scale, and country by country. Barrosso and his pals couldn't wait though. To me the most telling part of his career was that he was a prominent member of the Portuguese Communist party.

We are actually the third largest contributor in terms of cash, when you take into account the "European" grants we get back, as against other countries that equation does change.

I still cannot for the life of me understand why we,, and others have to pay so much in anyway given that the cover story is that it is a mutually beneficial trading bloc. Why does that require it's own parliament, Parliamentary buildings, draconian powers. it's own bank even.

As for leaving the union, that, under the present set up would be illegal, whatever any referendum might say. without the agreement of all the others. I would suspect they would only vote for us leaving the United States of Europe (elect) if we pay them enormous amounts of money first.

Panda wrote:Such a paucity of talent in Government (except for my mate Boris ) what is it going to take to bring about change in Britain so badly needed.?

Sorry Panda, I must include Boris in that paucity of talent. he's dropped enough "gaffes" to prove himself less than the sharpest knife in the box as well.

You have to bear in mind that those who went into Politics to make a difference from the first, Churchill, Greville, Pitt (both of them) are gone and from the names I've mentioned, long gone.

The crew we have now are in politics because they were unable to make a living at their first choice. Mostly drop outs from the law, but not all. They simply were not able to make it in their chosen careers. there are few who went in to politics not because they wanted to make a difference, or because they were dropouts, but realised form the start that they had no real talent and politics offered a well paid, comfortable position with authority far beyond their abilities. As long as they were sufficiently connected the answer just popped out of a slot. Harriet Harmful for example, and Diane Abbott to name but two, are Hypocritical in that while their own children were sent to public schools, both advertised state schooling for the proletariat.

The whole thing seems ridiculous and unfair....the UK does all the austerity bit and gets out of recession (although I'm not convinced about that) and we get penalised...whereas France do no austerity, are always on strike and they get given money

So far, much as I don't like it, I've been in favour of staying in the EU...now I'm not so sure.

Boris makes me laugh and I think the whole "bumbling idiot" show that he puts on is a cover for a very sharp, devious mind. In some ways I like him but I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him.

Angelina wrote:The whole thing seems ridiculous and unfair....the UK does all the austerity bit and gets out of recession (although I'm not convinced about that) and we get penalised...whereas France do no austerity, are always on strike and they get given money  

So far, much as I don't like it, I've been in favour of staying in the EU...now I'm not so sure.

I could not agree with you more Angelina. When we were given a referendum (loaded as it was) we were asked if we wanted to join a trading organisation similar to BENELUX or EFTA. with mutual benefits for members. Well of course they got an overwhelming majority, chances like that don't grow on trees

As I say the referendum was loaded. Papers released under the 30 year rule, showed that Heath was well aware of what the Common Market was destined to become. he just didn't tell us. I wonder why.

Now that we are heading ever more rapidly to the official formation of the United States of Europe. the cracks are beginning to show.
As you say other countries who have had no austerity worth talking about are set to benefit. That the French are one of those hardly seems worth mentioning, it always was a Franco/German club (the other main beneficiary)

Going back a bit in time the French were the first to come out on our side during the Falklands war. Then Aerospatiale set about completing an order for exocet missiles destined for the Argentinians. When British beef was declared safe once again, the French refused it's importation, despite threats of fines (which were never actually levied) Until France was sure that other suppliers of beef were well established. Then as you say the strikes which affect us more than them, Sangatte, Calais. A long list. With Friends like them.....

Angelina wrote:Boris makes me laugh and I think the whole "bumbling idiot" show that he puts on is a cover for a very sharp, devious mind.   In some ways I like him but I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him.

Exactly so. You have to ask why he. needs to hide his light under such a bushel, none of the others do, On the contrary, they are always looking for ways of telling us how good they are.

Like you I don't altogether trust him, but then I wouldn't trust any of the 655 is it in the House of Commons either. Will he get two salaries if he gets elected next year? I understand he will stay on as mayor as well for a while.

katertaif wrote:

Panda wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11215420/EU-surcharge-deadline-to-be-delayed-until-after-the-general-election.html

Presumably Cameron is going to do a deal with the EU and pay , but after he is re-elected....arrogant b***ard thinks he is going to win. i  If he doesn,t someone else will have to sortout the mess. This is manna for the UKIP Party .

Yes Panda I agree with you. They probably already have a lowest amount in mind say £1.2 billion for the sake of this discussion. Cameron will - reluctantly I'm sure agree to pay it, but after December the 1st. It will then be held up as a great victory for common sense and further proof of the good things awaiting us if we vote the conservatives back in next year.

The Half billion that is thus "saved" will I'm sure guarantee ever so many jobs in the NHS. or rail link 2 or whatever. I'm sure we'll be told that as well.

A couple of hundred years ago (or even going back to 1948) I would have read your post (go on tell me the internet hadn't been invented.) then after listening to the news on my "wire less" I would have shouted "burn her, burn her" and sent Mathew Hopkins round to have a word.

So we are to pay half of the £1.7 Billion are we. I almost said half myself This morning, but I thought that was a monopoly se too far. And it's to be interest free (whoopee doo) and not even paid until after the election. I know a week is a long time in politics, but I very much doubt Nigel Farage will forget, or allow us to. Manna from Heaven did you say?

katertaif wrote:

Angelina wrote:The whole thing seems ridiculous and unfair....the UK does all the austerity bit and gets out of recession (although I'm not convinced about that) and we get penalised...whereas France do no austerity, are always on strike and they get given money  

So far, much as I don't like it, I've been in favour of staying in the EU...now I'm not so sure.

I could not agree with you more Angelina. When we were given a referendum (loaded as it was) we were asked if we wanted to join a trading organisation similar to BENELUX or EFTA. with mutual benefits for members. Well of course they got an overwhelming majority, chances like that don't grow on trees

As I say the referendum was loaded. Papers released under the 30 year rule, showed that Heath was well aware of what the Common Market was destined to become. he just didn't tell us. I wonder why.

Now that we are heading ever more rapidly to the official formation of the United States of Europe. the cracks are beginning to show.
As you say other countries who have had no austerity worth talking about are set to benefit. That the French are one of those hardly seems worth mentioning, it always was a Franco/German club (the other main beneficiary)

Going back a bit in time the French were the first to come out on our side during the Falklands war. Then Aerospatiale set about completing an order for exocet missiles destined for the Argentinians. When British  beef was declared safe once again, the French refused it's importation, despite threats of fines (which were never actually levied) Until France was sure that other suppliers of beef were well established. Then as you say the strikes which affect us more than them, Sangatte, Calais. A long list. With Friends like them.....

The news this afternoon really is the limit. We only have to pay half, and even then interest free. What do we have to pay any for? As you say where is it we are doing so well in the first place, and assuming we are in fact out of recession Like  you I can't honestly see where. Why should we be penalised for it. Especially when others are being rewarded for feckless and reckless behaviour. What happens when we run out of money like the Greeks, or owe so much that there is absolutely no chance of ever paying it back like the Portuguese or when all our heavy medium and light industry has gone abroad to Romania and Bulgaria . Will the then I'm sure United States of Europe shower us with money? Somehow I doubt it. More likely put up a big notice at Calais, saying proceed beyond this point at your own risk.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11216465/George-Osborne-Britain-to-pay-half-of-disputed-European-Union-1.7billion-bill.html


Shows the EU needs us more than we need them. Cameron will tell us how tough he and Osborne were , but the EU only conceded because they would rather have the Conservatives in power than UKIP, and they also need the money.

You are right Panda, the EU knew exactly what it was going to do before we set foot there. Nothing we said would have made any difference at all. Of course Cameron and Osborne will claim it as a victory, I don't think anyone is fooled by them. It is not seen as a victory by the people of the UK. A victory to us would be huge changes, the power to govern ourselves again. The power to decide what we do about very important issues. If it does not happen the majority of the people here want out. It is time that our government and whichever government comes after them accept that. We are all tired of the pussyfooting.

Sometimes I do wonder if all this is some sort of conspiracy. A referendum coming up, which could be avoided, if Cameron negotiates some wonderful new terms for us. Germany does not want us to leave as we pay so much money in. Cameron does not want us to leave . Maybe this was the first step to making it look like he had achieved something. Other similar incidents to come. Nothing would surprise me in politics

Panda wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11216465/George-Osborne-Britain-to-pay-half-of-disputed-European-Union-1.7billion-bill.html


Shows the EU needs us more than we need them. Cameron will tell us how tough he and Osborne were , but the EU only conceded because they would rather have the Conservatives in power than UKIP, and they also need the money.

Cameron and Osborne can of course say what they like and it's beyond all doubt that they will tray to hail it as a great victory, Fuzeta has hit the nail on the head when she says few if any will be fooled by that.

It's quite obvious what has happened. they demanded £1.7 Billion, knowing that on negotiation they would settle for half. It's exactly the same principle for any who have haggled in. a Mid East souk. The starting price is 100 (the currency doesn't matter) you offer 80 he says 55 and you respond with 75. So it goes down the line, until you shake hands on 50, which is what both you and he knew you were going to pay n the end.

If this is what is meant by Cameron's much vaunted renegotiations. prior to a referendum, then the man must really be taking us for fools. Or the EU is taking him for one, They went in there knowing what the bill was going to be, any way you look at it we are and were going to pay the piper. Our medical people are not allowed a 1% increase greatly as they deserve it. MP's can have 11% even though they are largely redundant. Our NHS is creaking at the seams, as is much of our infrastructure, yet we have all this money to give away to the feckless, the reckless. The French are also benefitting hugely from the CAP which was largely created around them. What more do they want?

We'll even need their permission to hold a referendum on getting out. Guaranteed the answer will be No, Non, Nie, Nyet, unless you pay us a lot of money as indemnity, in which case it will be Yes Oui Ja, Da.

fuzeta wrote:Sometimes I do wonder if all this is some sort of conspiracy.  A referendum coming up, which could be avoided, if Cameron negotiates some wonderful new terms for us.   Germany does not want us to leave as we pay so much money in.  Cameron does not want us to leave . Maybe  this was the first step to making it look like he had achieved something. Other similar incidents to come.  Nothing would surprise me  in politics

My thoughts exactly Fuzeta. What kind of fools do they think we are to fall for that? or maybe the EU take Cameron and co for fools? Going back to the European General Election, the electorates of all donor countries sent our political masters a powerful message. They have magnificently ignored this message. Is it Arrogance, is it foolishness. It looks rather as if they are trying to please the Franco/German bloc, while uncaring whether they please us or not.

I would have thought that assuming they do actually know of the rumbles of discontent from Not only Britain, but other member states s well, and assuming that they really do want us to stay inside the club, that now was the time for the softly softly approach, not the big stick. Unless as you say they are already in the process of cobbling up a load of dodgy deals. This one being a lulu

fuzeta wrote:You are right Panda, the EU knew exactly what it was going to do before we set foot there.  Nothing we said would have made any difference at all.  Of course Cameron and Osborne will claim it as a victory, I don't think anyone is fooled by them.  It is not seen as a victory by the people of the UK.  A victory to us would be huge changes, the power to govern ourselves again. The power to decide what we  do about very important issues.  If it does not happen the majority of the people here want out.  It is time that our government and whichever government  comes after them accept that.  We are all tired of the pussyfooting.

Hi Fuzeta, a few months ago a survey took place among EU Countries to test their  solvency basically. Eight Countries failed the test:


Belgium, Italy, Greece, Spain, France, ...can't remember the other 3   There was a Documentary on U.K. T.V. about the EU and the running costs are phenomenal, especially since they use 2 Buildings now.Interpreters, every memo sent in 28 Languages  etc, the cost is huge and the EURO is getting weaker.

Well it seems nobody has been fooled by these shenanigans. According to the papers, we were due half of that amount back in a future rebate anyway. They have brought that forward to knock it off the bill. So the fact is we are still paying the 1.7b Marvellous.

fuzeta wrote:Well it seems nobody has been fooled by these shenanigans.  According to the papers, we were due half of that amount back in a future rebate anyway. They have brought that forward to knock it off the bill.   So the fact is we are still paying the 1.7b Marvellous.

Just a minute ago Fuzeta, the Chancellor was reiterating to a Reporter that only half the bill had to be paid ...the arrogance is astonishing!!!. Ted Heath led us to believe that we were joining a Common Market.Other PM's later signed away more of our Country's independence without even telling us exactly what we were signing up to , The end result was we import inferior vegetables and fruit and are not allowed to grow our own. Yet for all of the rules and regulations, the EU has failed to introduce a Defence
Force which would only be used to defend an infasion.


I was reading an Article about the PM in 1932, Oliphant I think his name was. He was approached by the leader of Saudi Arabia to invest in Oil exploration because his Country was very poor and there was a chance Oil would be found. Oliphant turned him down on the grounds it was unlikely that Oil would be found in a Desert

Ramsay Macdonald , I think the PM was Panda.  Oliphant was probably some sort of adviser, not very good with his advice it seems.

fuzeta wrote:Ramsay Macdonald , I think the PM was Panda.  Oliphant was probably some sort of adviser, not very good with his advice it seems.

Hi fuzeta, I posted the Article and Oliphant was the Diplomat, not PM ...sorry.

I just wonder what Britain would be like today if we had invested in Oil exploration, and such a small Country was one of the richest.