Re: Panorama Tonight!!

**dutchclogs** Thu 26 Apr - 6:44

tigger wrote:
The End Is Nigh wrote:Out of consideration for my darling wife, who does not like to hear me swear and rant, I am recording it and will watch tommorow am!

Very wise, I can't watch but even picking up on the comments here and on Jills my BP has reached a new high. The lies, the twists!

SAME HERE I could not watch it but so far the posts here are making my blood boil Panorama Tonight!! - Page 6 157799

dear BBC

NoStone Thu 26 Apr - 6:58

I have been trying to summarise the messages from last nights prog in my head this morning. Along with points made by others here I have come up with the following:-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kate found Madeline gone and the windows and shutters open. When the stupid Portuguese Police arrived they thought the girl had wondered off and did not seal the apt which became contaminated.

With the world's media on his door step Amaral felt pressured into making an arrest so he tried to nail Murat which failed.

When good old British sniffer dogs found DNA - Amaral tried to nail K&G but the DNA was inconclusive so the Portuguese AG cleared K&G and Murat and closed the case and stopped looking.

Although Amaral says he wrote the book to clear his name its obvious he did it for money making a pile. Everyone in Portugal read it and now believes K&G did it - all except one virtuous ID who is so personally damaged by Amaral her friends wont talk to her which is why she is helping K&G sue Amaral.

This is all a shame because K&G are really nice people - they do good things like run for missing children but do not despair - the good old British Bobby is on the case now.

Mr R has collected together all the information including the helpful stuff collected by the investigators paid for by K&G. Although he does not have a picture he has been told what the final jig-saw looks like and is busy putting thousands of pieces of paper in that order. Why this is so easy for Mr R and his experienced British team of sleuths they have been finding fresh leads at the rate of one every two days since they started a year ago and now have 195 of them - so fresh they cannot give them to the PJ yet as hey are still hatching back at the yard.

The filthy Portuguese policeman lied when he said they did not have a review team because when we asked a Portuguese politician she said they had and when we went digging we found a team cowering away in Porto. So much for great British investigative journalism eh? - how good are we?

Mr R thinks this team might not be as stupid as the rest of the Portuguese and he has one last hope he can persuade them to see his picture but hey - these are Portuguese people and if he hands them fresh evidence on a plate and they screw it up a second time then that's down to them.

Next week:- Two of Britains' most notorious child neglectors ask you to feel sorry for them - AGAIN - as they are still running - running from the Portuguese who will not go away.

Finally for the conspiracsists amongst you we cannot say too much because we are the beeb but feed off these words - forget Alan Johnson he is small fry as Cameron AND Murdoch are involved!!!!! Have a good day.

**Panda** Thu 26 Apr - 7:33

Angelique wrote: Panda

Have been here just not able to get online BT Broadband is c**p for some reason - keeps crashing.

I don't honestly think I could stomach watching the programme if it's K and G spouting their mantra and another helping of Bilton 'bias'. How can they produce a programme that effectively dissed the Portuguese investigation when they SY were helping them at the time

Morning Angelique, I too am having trouble with Broadband, I'm with Virginmedia who wrote a couple of months ago saying they were going to increase
broadband in my area in March, instead it is slower.!!!I phoned technical support , they checked out a speed test on my computer and said there was nothing wrong. The Computer is only a few months old and not overloaded so I don't know what the problem is.

You didn't miss much , K & G were not in it but Andy Redwood reckons he has 195 potential leads.....he has had 10 months to chase them up!!!

Guest Thu 26 Apr - 7:45

Panda wrote:
Angelique wrote: Panda

Have been here just not able to get online BT Broadband is c**p for some reason - keeps crashing.

I don't honestly think I could stomach watching the programme if it's K and G spouting their mantra and another helping of Bilton 'bias'. How can they produce a programme that effectively dissed the Portuguese investigation when they SY were helping them at the time

Morning Angelique, I too am having trouble with Broadband, I'm with Virginmedia who wrote a couple of months ago saying they were going to increase
broadband in my area in March, instead it is slower.!!!I phoned technical support , they checked out a speed test on my computer and said there was nothing wrong. The Computer is only a few months old and not overloaded so I don't know what the problem is.

You didn't miss much , K & G were not in it but Andy Redwood reckons he has 195 potential leads.....he has had 10 months to chase them up!!!

That is an excellent point Panda - and they haven't. Any copper, even down to a cadet, would know that time was of the essence and that if there was any chance at all of rescuing a child, they would move immediately. Not wait ten months and then put it on Panorama. It just does not add up and tends to make me think that somebody's stretching the truth a wee bit here.

**fedrules** Thu 26 Apr - 8:04

maive wrote:Just watched the show again, without any kids around

At first, I thought it was 50-50 positive/negative but now I am thinking it's more 40-60..

In the 40% positive I see:

- The journalist said «What really happened in that apartment?» at least twice..
- The conclusions of the PJ report, written in the screen for everyone to see
- The dogs (despite the DNA thing)
- The Portuguese opinion of both police and public (although it's used to bash GA)
- The wording (The parents told.., Kate says..)
- At NO time Redwood said he thinks Madeleine is alive (or I missed it??)

For the 60% negative, we have all watched the show

At the end, SY says new EVIDENCE, not leads, tips, or whatever... He said NEW EVIDENCE... Evidence of what?? Please someone explain me how can you have evidence of something but in the same time not knowing what happened, i.e. if she is dead or alive??

I mean.. if you have evidence, it certainly shows one direction or another.. not both.. So I conclude that SY wants to stay neutral, the ball is in the PJ court..

We'll see '

I agree with you and feel that the programme aimed to discredit GA and the findings of the original investigation. Personally I had the feeling that Bilton shares our doubts about the McCanns. It was also stressed that it is a Portuguese decision to reopen the case and, with the state of Portugal's economy and the lack of real new evidence, I doubt this will ever really happen. So things will remain as they are but the McCanns will have achieved their objective i.e. of casting doubts on Amaral and his investigation..

**Panda** Thu 26 Apr - 8:05

Morning Iris, I suspect Andy Redwood is probably full of his own self importance and wouldn't be surprised if he is having a regular audience with the
McCanns to update them. Why did he have to make 4 trips to Portugal? Presumably there are Officers staying in Hotels in Portugal going through
the correspondence, e-mails, phones, and faxes would be a much cheaper way of communicating. He might just have angered his Superiors by making
that remark , it does not make for cordial relations between Britain and Portugal.

**fedrules** Thu 26 Apr - 8:10

NoStone wrote:I have been trying to summarise the messages from last nights prog in my head this morning. Along with points made by others here I have come up with the following:-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kate found Madeline gone and the windows and shutters open. When the stupid Portuguese Police arrived they thought the girl had wondered off and did not seal the apt which became contaminated.

With the world's media on his door step Amaral felt pressured into making an arrest so he tried to nail Murat which failed.

When good old British sniffer dogs found DNA - Amaral tried to nail K&G but the DNA was inconclusive so the Portuguese AG cleared K&G and Murat and closed the case and stopped looking.

Although Amaral says he wrote the book to clear his name its obvious he did it for money making a pile. Everyone in Portugal read it and now believes K&G did it - all except one virtuous ID who is so personally damaged by Amaral her friends wont talk to her which is why she is helping K&G sue Amaral.

This is all a shame because K&G are really nice people - they do good things like run for missing children but do not despair - the good old British Bobby is on the case now.

Mr R has collected together all the information including the helpful stuff collected by the investigators paid for by K&G. Although he does not have a picture he has been told what the final jig-saw looks like and is busy putting thousands of pieces of paper in that order. Why this is so easy for Mr R and his experienced British team of sleuths they have been finding fresh leads at the rate of one every two days since they started a year ago and now have 195 of them - so fresh they cannot give them to the PJ yet as hey are still hatching back at the yard.

The filthy Portuguese policeman lied when he said they did not have a review team because when we asked a Portuguese politician she said they had and when we went digging we found a team cowering away in Porto. So much for great British investigative journalism eh? - how good are we?

Mr R thinks this team might not be as stupid as the rest of the Portuguese and he has one last hope he can persuade them to see his picture but hey - these are Portuguese people and if he hands them fresh evidence on a plate and they screw it up a second time then that's down to them.

Next week:- Two of Britains' most notorious child neglectors ask you to feel sorry for them - AGAIN - as they are still running - running from the Portuguese who will not go away.

Finally for the conspiracsists amongst you we cannot say too much because we are the beeb but feed off these words - forget Alan Johnson he is small fry as Cameron AND Murdoch are involved!!!!! Have a good day.^

Yep that sums it up perfectly and guess what the message in the press today is that SY believes Maddie could still be alive and so the charade goes on and on and on...

tigger Thu 26 Apr - 8:11

NoStone wrote:I have been trying to summarise the messages from last nights prog in my head this morning. Along with points made by others here I have come up with the following:-

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kate found Madeline gone and the windows and shutters open. When the stupid Portuguese Police arrived they thought the girl had wondered off and did not seal the apt which became contaminated.

With the world's media on his door step Amaral felt pressured into making an arrest so he tried to nail Murat which failed.

When good old British sniffer dogs found DNA - Amaral tried to nail K&G but the DNA was inconclusive so the Portuguese AG cleared K&G and Murat and closed the case and stopped looking.

Although Amaral says he wrote the book to clear his name its obvious he did it for money making a pile. Everyone in Portugal read it and now believes K&G did it - all except one virtuous ID who is so personally damaged by Amaral her friends wont talk to her which is why she is helping K&G sue Amaral.

This is all a shame because K&G are really nice people - they do good things like run for missing children but do not despair - the good old British Bobby is on the case now.

Mr R has collected together all the information including the helpful stuff collected by the investigators paid for by K&G. Although he does not have a picture he has been told what the final jig-saw looks like and is busy putting thousands of pieces of paper in that order. Why this is so easy for Mr R and his experienced British team of sleuths they have been finding fresh leads at the rate of one every two days since they started a year ago and now have 195 of them - so fresh they cannot give them to the PJ yet as hey are still hatching back at the yard.

The filthy Portuguese policeman lied when he said they did not have a review team because when we asked a Portuguese politician she said they had and when we went digging we found a team cowering away in Porto. So much for great British investigative journalism eh? - how good are we?

Mr R thinks this team might not be as stupid as the rest of the Portuguese and he has one last hope he can persuade them to see his picture but hey - these are Portuguese people and if he hands them fresh evidence on a plate and they screw it up a second time then that's down to them.

Next week:- Two of Britains' most notorious child neglectors ask you to feel sorry for them - AGAIN - as they are still running - running from the Portuguese who will not go away.

Finally for the conspiracsists amongst you we cannot say too much because we are the beeb but feed off these words - forget Alan Johnson he is small fry as Cameron AND Murdoch are involved!!!!! Have a good day.

Congratulations! You've got the message loud and clear. Now go and evangelize to those of little faith.

I'd set the bar pretty low, but they wriggled under it all the same. AR looked like a schoolboy who isn't sure he's reciting the poem correctly and worries about failing his English litt. oral exam.

steve1295 Thu 26 Apr - 8:12

@No stone. You have it to a tee.

Karen Thu 26 Apr - 8:14

Panda wrote:
http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/madeleine-mccann-is-dead-prove-it-say-the-mccanns-dogs-dont-lie/#comments

courtesy of HLM.....HideHo's fame is spreading.

I have PLASTERED this video ALL over twitter! Panorama Tonight!! - Page 6 25346

Bebootje Thu 26 Apr - 8:21

kathybelle wrote:I think Goncalo Amaral, dissed the PJ on last night's Panorama programme, he had the chance to speak out about what really happened and he said nothing. Goncalo admitted that they made many mistakes, but he never said how the McCanns put obstacles in their way, which prevented them from investigating this case in the manner it should have been investigated.

Goncalo could have told the reporter, how the McCanns lied about certain aspects of this case, from the minute the police arrived at their apartment. He could have told the reporter, how the McCanns have never searched for Madeleine, from the minute Kate found her missing, until this present day.

Goncalo could have told the reporter, what the McCanns were doing, after Madeleine was discovered missing. He could have said how the McCanns and their mates were holed up in their apartment, sorting out their timelines on the blank pages of one of Madeleine's books. Making phone calls that could have waited until after they'd finished looking for Madeleine. He could have said how Gerry phoned Gordon Brown, to ask for help and how Kate phoned a Merseyside Priest to ask him to fly over to Portugal as soon as possible.

Goncalo could have told the reporter, how the McCanns and their mates trampled all over the crime scene, before the police arrived, making it impossible for them to find any clues about the so called abducter.

Goncalo could have said many things that would have shown, who really was to blame for Madeleine's disappearance, things that the British media have never printed in our newspapers. Instead he allowed the programme, to show the PJ along with the Portuguese police, were the incompetent people the McCanns and the British media have been saying they were, for the past 5yrs.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Goncalo did put the other side of the coin to Panorama, but the producers, were prevented from allowing the other side of the coin to be aired.

Finally, I wonder how Ben Needham's mum Kerry felt, when she heard that senior Scotland Yard officer, say what a privilege it was, to help "Lord and Lady Muck" (or words to that effect). Especially when Kerry and her former husband, have had no help whatsoever from the British Goverment. They may be getting help now, but they needed help when Ben first disappeared.

Maybe he did. We don't know how much material was cut out before broadcast.

**Panda** Thu 26 Apr - 8:26

No Mention of Oakley International then, still languishing in HMP awaiting extradition. He was supposedly paid £300,000 and one assumes he would have been questioned about any evidence he found. Similarly Edgar would have several files which Kate helped to collate and I suspect vital info
to help SY.

tigger Thu 26 Apr - 8:27

Panda wrote:
Morning Iris, I suspect Andy Redwood is probably full of his own self importance and wouldn't be surprised if he is having a regular audience with the
McCanns to update them. Why did he have to make 4 trips to Portugal? Presumably there are Officers staying in Hotels in Portugal going through
the correspondence, e-mails, phones, and faxes would be a much cheaper way of communicating. He might just have angered his Superiors by making
that remark , it does not make for cordial relations between Britain and Portugal.

AR is a lucky man, probably the best career move ever. Onwards and upwards for him from now on - he will be shooting through the ranks like a rocket. Not only that, he's integrated quantum theory with the 'facts' of the case.
Namely, Maddie is now both alive and dead and we cannot know until we open the box and look. Then, and only then, will one of the two possible options become reality. By looking into the box, we make it happen.( This comment on quantum theory is known as 'Schrodinger's cat'). If we never look in the box, then Maddie will be both alive and dead, forever.

I don't want to hate them but these footprints all over the justice system of two countries and the contempt this documentary shows for the public, is getting me down.

**Panda** Thu 26 Apr - 8:34

tigger wrote:
Panda wrote:
Morning Iris, I suspect Andy Redwood is probably full of his own self importance and wouldn't be surprised if he is having a regular audience with the
McCanns to update them. Why did he have to make 4 trips to Portugal? Presumably there are Officers staying in Hotels in Portugal going through
the correspondence, e-mails, phones, and faxes would be a much cheaper way of communicating. He might just have angered his Superiors by making
that remark , it does not make for cordial relations between Britain and Portugal.

AR is a lucky man, probably the best career move ever. Onwards and upwards for him from now on - he will be shooting through the ranks like a rocket. Not only that, he's integrated quantum theory with the 'facts' of the case.
Namely, Maddie is now both alive and dead and we cannot know until we open the box and look. Then, and only then, will one of the two possible options become reality. By looking into the box, we make it happen.( This comment on quantum theory is known as 'Schrodinger's cat'). If we never look in the box, then Maddie will be both alive and dead, forever.

I don't want to hate them but these footprints all over the justice system of two countries and the contempt this documentary shows for the public, is getting me down.

Morning tigger, you can bet that at the end of the day the final Report will be a copy of the PJ's and the McCanns can carry on with the fund and
be in the clear. Cameron, already proving an inept PM will have a lot to answer for, wasting all this money when the Country is in such dire straits.

**wjk** Thu 26 Apr - 9:15

I'm still feeling really positive after watching it last night. Yes, more could have been said about Kate not answering questions etc but I really thought, after reading all the hype in the day, that Panorama was going to basically clear the McCanns and claim abduction only. I felt it left all options open. I really hope the case is reopened and they drag the lot of them back for the recon now.

**Panda** Thu 26 Apr - 9:35

wjk wrote:I'm still feeling really positive after watching it last night. Yes, more could have been said about Kate not answering questions etc but I really thought, after reading all the hype in the day, that Panorama was going to basically clear the McCanns and claim abduction only. I felt it left all options open. I really hope the case is reopened and they drag the lot of them back for the recon now.

Morning wjk....so do I but I thought it was biased in the sense that Amaral,s statement was aired , but nothing about the Silvia Batista statement.
She arrived before the PJ and said 5a was contaminated by the Tapas Group.

matthew Thu 26 Apr - 9:35

wjk wrote:I'm still feeling really positive after watching it last night. Yes, more could have been said about Kate not answering questions etc but I really thought, after reading all the hype in the day, that Panorama was going to basically clear the McCanns and claim abduction only. I felt it left all options open. I really hope the case is reopened and they drag the lot of them back for the recon now.

Correct,it was never going to flag up every inconsitency & circumstantial evidence against them that could be ammunition for their future defence but i think it has layed the groundwork for a prosecution...they have admitted mistakes were made,they are wiping the slate clean & starting from scratch,giving every possible avenue equal merit,if a reconstruction is asked for...the Mccs & taps could not refuse this time

or they are saying the pj are useless,there was an abduction & we are barking mad

**margaret** Thu 26 Apr - 9:43

tigger wrote:

Namely, Maddie is now both alive and dead and we cannot know until we open the box and look. Then, and only then, will one of the two possible options become reality. By looking into the box, we make it happen.( This comment on quantum theory is known as 'Schrodinger's cat'). If we never look in the box, then Maddie will be both alive and dead, forever.

I had to look up Schrodingers Cat, what a load of piffle! Something can only be one thing, it's your thought process that gives you the choice of thinking alive or dead.

**wjk** Thu 26 Apr - 9:49

Panda wrote:
wjk wrote:I'm still feeling really positive after watching it last night. Yes, more could have been said about Kate not answering questions etc but I really thought, after reading all the hype in the day, that Panorama was going to basically clear the McCanns and claim abduction only. I felt it left all options open. I really hope the case is reopened and they drag the lot of them back for the recon now.

Morning wjk....so do I but I thought it was biased in the sense that Amaral,s statement was aired , but nothing about the Silvia Batista statement.
She arrived before the PJ and said 5a was contaminated by the Tapas Group.

Panda, hope you are well Panorama Tonight!! - Page 6 Icon_flower

I see what you mean but I don't think it was ever about covering every detail. It would be great to see a programme that went into every detail of the case from the timelines to the witnesses etc, now, 5yrs on. Now the files have been released etc, it would make a very interesting watch. But I don't think you'd get that in a half hour programme. IMO Redwood wants the case reopened because he knows things don't add up. I think he would love to get their sorry arses back for a recon but he can't directly say it on TV.

**wjk** Thu 26 Apr - 9:51

matthew wrote:
wjk wrote:I'm still feeling really positive after watching it last night. Yes, more could have been said about Kate not answering questions etc but I really thought, after reading all the hype in the day, that Panorama was going to basically clear the McCanns and claim abduction only. I felt it left all options open. I really hope the case is reopened and they drag the lot of them back for the recon now.

Correct,it was never going to flag up every inconsitency & circumstantial evidence against them that could be ammunition for their future defence but i think it has layed the groundwork for a prosecution...they have admitted mistakes were made,they are wiping the slate clean & starting from scratch,giving every possible avenue equal merit,if a reconstruction is asked for...the Mccs & taps could not refuse this time

or they are saying the pj are useless,there was an abduction & we are barking mad

Agree with you matthew Panorama Tonight!! - Page 6 944533

We may be optimistic but not barking mad Panorama Tonight!! - Page 6 294124

**kitti** Thu 26 Apr - 10:07

I don't trust Murat anymore .....why didn't he say he was there because he was fingered by tanner instead off saying bad things about mr amaral.....no I def don't trust him now

**kitti** Thu 26 Apr - 10:15

Also funny that mr amarals libel trial was cancelled and here we have the programme which for 30 minutes was to discount mr Amaral, put him down, accuse him off being money grabbing, even a suspect was accusing him, sandra even Insinuated that he changed peoples minds with his book......no this programme was specifically to try to sway the outcome off the libel trial which has nothing to do with his theory anyway as his book ban has been lifted......it's to do with spite and the mccanns are spiteful people.

Guest Thu 26 Apr - 10:17

I certainly feel that there are a lot of unanswered questions about Robert Murat and that he is by no means in the clear.

Guest Thu 26 Apr - 10:19

Amaral's Trial has not been cancelled - it has been postponed and is still listed.

Delays and postponements are commonplace.

maebee Thu 26 Apr - 10:31

I am beginning to think (hope) that last night's McCannorama was a set up/good cop job and that the Mcs and Taps are being lulled into a false sense of security. I can think of no other reason for the obvious latest Mc love-in. It was so ridiculously pro Mc that it really makes me think that SY are playing a very clever game. I know most won't agree with me but I need this belief.

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