McMINUTES: McCanns CHANGED story because SHUTTERS were NOT 'jemmied'!

Mrs Fenn says the crying stopped when the McCanns returned to 5a. If a child had been crying for over an hour, wouldn't her face be tear stained ? Wouldn't the remark "why didn't you come" be made then, not the next morning???? In the second video, apart from lying, Gerry looks p***ed off looking straight ahead before he realises he has to back Kate up .

Panda wrote:Mrs Fenn says the crying stopped when the McCanns returned to 5a. If a child had been crying for over an hour, wouldn't her face be tear stained ? Wouldn't the remark "why didn't you come" be made then, not the next morning???? In the second video, apart from lying, Gerry looks p***ed off looking straight ahead before he realises he has to back Kate up .

Although we do not know for certain it was the McCanns returning to the apartment, didn't Mrs Fenn say she heard someone returning and the crying stopped.

Perhaps someone else in close proximity returned to their apartment which is what Mrs Fenn heard and the crying stopped at the same time, so it was just a co-incidence. Unless she saw or heard the McCanns specifically speaking she would not know who exactly it was.

Jus to remind you of the 'crying' video..(Turn audio down a little before viewing)

Discrepancies: Madeleine Crying

mossman wrote:

Panda wrote:Mrs Fenn says the crying stopped when the McCanns returned to 5a. If a child had been crying for over an hour, wouldn't her face be tear stained ? Wouldn't the remark "why didn't you come" be made then, not the next morning???? In the second video, apart from lying, Gerry looks p***ed off looking straight ahead before he realises he has to back Kate up .

Although we do not know for certain it was the McCanns returning to the apartment, didn't Mrs Fenn say she heard someone returning and the crying stopped.

Perhaps someone else in close proximity returned to their apartment which is what Mrs Fenn heard and the crying stopped at the same time, so it was just a co-incidence. Unless she saw or heard the McCanns specifically speaking she would not know who exactly it was.

I would imagine it was them, there was no apartment next door and I think it was the Oldfields in the next Apartment on the other side. kate obviously knew it was Madeleiene because she made up the "mummy why didn't you come " bit.

Panda wrote:

mossman wrote:

Panda wrote:Mrs Fenn says the crying stopped when the McCanns returned to 5a. If a child had been crying for over an hour, wouldn't her face be tear stained ? Wouldn't the remark "why didn't you come" be made then, not the next morning???? In the second video, apart from lying, Gerry looks p***ed off looking straight ahead before he realises he has to back Kate up .

Although we do not know for certain it was the McCanns returning to the apartment, didn't Mrs Fenn say she heard someone returning and the crying stopped.

Perhaps someone else in close proximity returned to their apartment which is what Mrs Fenn heard and the crying stopped at the same time, so it was just a co-incidence. Unless she saw or heard the McCanns specifically speaking she would not know who exactly it was.

I would imagine it was them, there was no apartment next door and I think it was the Oldfields in the next Apartment on the other side. kate obviously knew it was Madeleiene because she made up the "mummy why didn't you come " bit.

I agree Panda with your earlier post about the tear stained face. There would be a very runny nose too and a child so distressed just doesn't stop and not make another sound. They whimper and often start crying all over again. Even if they fall into an exhausted sleep they will still whimper so I don't buy at all the first knowledge of the crying being at breakfast on the thursday morning. Lies and more lies.

Bobsy wrote:

Panda wrote:

mossman wrote:

Panda wrote:Mrs Fenn says the crying stopped when the McCanns returned to 5a. If a child had been crying for over an hour, wouldn't her face be tear stained ? Wouldn't the remark "why didn't you come" be made then, not the next morning???? In the second video, apart from lying, Gerry looks p***ed off looking straight ahead before he realises he has to back Kate up .

Although we do not know for certain it was the McCanns returning to the apartment, didn't Mrs Fenn say she heard someone returning and the crying stopped.

Perhaps someone else in close proximity returned to their apartment which is what Mrs Fenn heard and the crying stopped at the same time, so it was just a co-incidence. Unless she saw or heard the McCanns specifically speaking she would not know who exactly it was.

I would imagine it was them, there was no apartment next door and I think it was the Oldfields in the next Apartment on the other side. kate obviously knew it was Madeleiene because she made up the "mummy why didn't you come " bit.

I agree Panda with your earlier post about the tear stained face. There would be a very runny nose too and a child so distressed just doesn't stop and not make another sound. They whimper and often start crying all over again. Even if they fall into an exhausted sleep they will still whimper so I don't buy at all the first knowledge of the crying being at breakfast on the thursday morning. Lies and more lies.

Hi b

Bobsy, what with Gerry saying they talked of going to the millenium, not sure they could get in to the Tapas ...it's a wonder they havn't grown noses like Pinocchio

I'm following this on my facebook page , i also can't find a merry christmas thread .Help.

halfamo wrote:I'm following this on my facebook page , i also can't find a merry christmas thread .Help.

Hi halfamo, Merry Christmas, I think it's on the Daily thread. Bit stingy this Year, no Christmas Cards!!! Iv'e just done some to Friends on the 123Greetings site....if I could post one on the thread I would.

Hi panda i'm still around try as i may i can't leave this behind , i'm going to look for M M on facebook .Happy Christmas & all the best for 2013 .x

Panda wrote:

jd16 wrote:The creche sheets go weird from the afternoon of April 30th....The day nobody talks about

JT only signed her kids in twice the whole holiday....On the 29th April and afternoon of May 1st

Hi jd16, did you find the day where Gerry signed on the wrong line, I think it was either the second or third. He signed on the line above Madeleine's name.

From the afternoon of April 30th all the creche sheets are so inconsistent and messed up all over the place. Speaks volumes to me. Another thing is kate mccann says she went jogging on the afternoon of May 3rd and then met gerry mccann who was having tea with kids around 5.30pm...however it was kate mccann who signed the kids out!!!!!!

matthew wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:I think t was Fiona who said Wednesday night was Rachael's 'turn'.

Kikotran believes there was a standin Madeleine...that would mean there would be standin tapas,his theory revolves around phone & creche records,any thoughts on his theory?

This opens up a whole different case but I don't believe there was stand in Maddie, except they used Ella after April 30th at creche

Fact is there was a death relating to the mccanns, and one child has vanished off the face of the earth. The dogs do not lie and to alert cadaver in 11 different places all relating to the mccanns and from dogs that are specially trained and have a 100% success record in over 200 cases, and were then one of the the highest paid personnel of Yorkshire police on £200,000 a year...it is impossible that there wasn't a death relating to the mccanns. Why the establishment remains to keep protecting the mccanns and their lies and conning the public is just astonishing...and well as incredibly irresponsible and deceitful

Places and Items where the EVRD and CSI Dogs Signaled

The first alert was given with the dogs head in the air without a positive area
being identified.

Rear bedroom of the apartment in the immediate right hand corner by
the door.

Living room, behind sofa.

Veranda outside parent's bedroom.

Garden area directly under veranda.

Cuddle Cat

Clothing belonging to Kate McCann x 2 - Trousers and a Top

Red Children’s T-Shirt

Hired Car – Renault Scenic
When passing a vehicle I now know to be hired and in the possession of the McCann family,
the dog's behaviour changed substantially. This then produced an alert
indication at the lower part of the driver’s door where the dog was biting and
barking. I recognise this behaviour as the dog indicating scent emitting from
the inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door.

Hired Car – Key Fob

Five apartments were searched using the EVRD.

Ten vehicles were screened in an underground multi storey car park at
Portimao.

halfamo wrote:Hi panda i'm still around try as i may i can't leave this behind , i'm going to look for M M on facebook .Happy Christmas & all the best for 2013 .x

I just looked and the MM Merry Xmas is definitely on the Daily News thread......quite a way down.

In a report, Mark Harrison listed cases of success that offered a guarantee of reliability. And he asserted that if the dogs came to signal Maddie’s death, then it would be a fact.

jd16 wrote:In a report, Mark Harrison listed cases of success that offered a guarantee of reliability. And he asserted that if the dogs came to signal Maddie’s death, then it would be a fact.

He also sent the dogs to check for Cadaver odour in the LAST KNOWN LOCATION...NOT the tapas for high tea...the CRECHE (we dont know what day they have confirmation for)

One would presume that if Madeleine HAD been confirmed to be at high tea then the search at the creche would not have been logical!


http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic30.html

Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann. Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

Personally, I think this is a MAJOR 'find' (unless someone can explain otherwise)

This could mean that Catrion's statemeent is false!

HiDeHo wrote:

jd16 wrote:In a report, Mark Harrison listed cases of success that offered a guarantee of reliability. And he asserted that if the dogs came to signal Maddie’s death, then it would be a fact.

He also sent the dogs to check for Cadaver odour in the LAST KNOWN LOCATION...NOT the tapas for high tea...the CRECHE (we dont know what day they have confirmation for)

One would presume that if Madeleine HAD been confirmed to be at high tea then the search at the creche would not have been logical!


http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic30.html

Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann. Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

Personally, I think this is a MAJOR 'find' (unless someone can explain otherwise)

This could mean that Catrion's statemeent is false!

Cat Bakers statement is totally made up imo...They shipped her off out of the country almost immediately and it seems she has hardly been back in the UK either (been in NY since)...very strange. I believe when Maddie was signed out 15 mins later on April 30th followed by nobody signing their kids out that afternoon (amongst other things) that this is when it happened. Cat Baker almost suicidal and taking the 'abduction' more stressfully than the mccanns put together very odd indeed. I wonder if Maddie had some sort of accident at creche that afternoon and to me it fits if the dogs were sent to creche

Panda wrote:

halfamo wrote:Hi panda i'm still around try as i may i can't leave this behind , i'm going to look for M M on facebook .Happy Christmas & all the best for 2013 .x

I just looked and the MM Merry Xmas is definitely on the Daily News thread......quite a way down.

Its here on the Main Maddie forum
https://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t22363-merry-christmas-all-xxx

wjk wrote:

Panda wrote:

halfamo wrote:Hi panda i'm still around try as i may i can't leave this behind , i'm going to look for M M on facebook .Happy Christmas & all the best for 2013 .x

I just looked and the MM Merry Xmas is definitely on the Daily News thread......quite a way down.

Its here on the Main Maddie forum
,ttp://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t22363-merry-christmas-all-xxx

Don't take any notice of me.

I did panda .x

jd16 wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:

jd16 wrote:In a report, Mark Harrison listed cases of success that offered a guarantee of reliability. And he asserted that if the dogs came to signal Maddie’s death, then it would be a fact.

He also sent the dogs to check for Cadaver odour in the LAST KNOWN LOCATION...NOT the tapas for high tea...the CRECHE (we dont know what day they have confirmation for)

One would presume that if Madeleine HAD been confirmed to be at high tea then the search at the creche would not have been logical!


http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic30.html

Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann. Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

Personally, I think this is a MAJOR 'find' (unless someone can explain otherwise)

This could mean that Catrion's statemeent is false!

Cat Bakers statement is totally made up imo...They shipped her off out of the country almost immediately and it seems she has hardly been back in the UK either (been in NY since)...very strange. I believe when Maddie was signed out 15 mins later on April 30th followed by nobody signing their kids out that afternoon (amongst other things) that this is when it happened. Cat Baker almost suicidal and taking the 'abduction' more stressfully than the mccanns put together very odd indeed. I wonder if Maddie had some sort of accident at creche that afternoon and to me it fits if the dogs were sent to creche

No, I dont believe so...It states that the reason they were sent there is because its the LAST CONFIRMED location of Madeleine...(They subsequently discovered cadaver odour at the apartment).

We have been 'told' it was High Tea...so it appears that they KNOW she wasn't at high tea...(otherwise they would have no need to check for cadaver odour at the location PRIOR to the last confirmed location (creche) she was known to have been to search for cadaver odour.)

This puts a NEW PERSPECTIVE on the situation....

The implication of Madeleine not being confirmed to be at High Tea by ANYONE outside of the family shows that they were lNOT considering Catriona and Charlotte Pennington statement as proof! (Catriona did not mention about Madeleine being at High tea in her first statement, but that portion not released.)

7 May 2007 "I met him near the stairs of a ground floor. There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment." (no explanation of why he had assumed Gerry had left the apartment. If Gerry had merely been standing by the gate, Gerry could have been getting ready to enter the apartment.)

11 May 2007 "As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate." (no mention of Gerry exiting through the gate, so where did he magically appear from?)

8 April 2008 "When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same. I believe that there was some speculation in the press regarding the circumstances of this encounter. I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him. As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar."

The above 3 statements are all by Jeremy Wilkins, with the key evidence highlighted in bold. Jez remembers seeing Gerry walking, presumably down the lane toward the tapas bar. This memory would explain why Jez had assumed that Gerry had left the apartment. However, for Jez to have seen Gerry walking and then to have subsequently met Gerry directly in front of the gate, Gerry must have exited the front door. With no mention of seeing Gerry going down the stairs or exiting the gate, it is clearly obvious that Gerry exited the front door.

Didn't Gerry cross over the road to talk to Jez? If Tanner walked past them without being noticed, she would have been on the same side of the road as the gate.

jinvta wrote:7 May 2007 "I met him near the stairs of a ground floor. There was a gate leading up to some stairs. I was pretty certain that he had left the apartment." (no explanation of why he had assumed Gerry had left the apartment. If Gerry had merely been standing by the gate, Gerry could have been getting ready to enter the apartment.)

11 May 2007 "As he approached the corner of the McCanns apartment, he saw Gerry appear from the area of the gate." (no mention of Gerry exiting through the gate, so where did he magically appear from?)

8 April 2008 "When I left the street, I remember seeing Gerry on the other side of the same. I believe that there was some speculation in the press regarding the circumstances of this encounter. I remember that I crossed the street to talk to Gerry. According to what I remember, Gerry was walking when I spotted him. As I mentioned previously, I assumed that he had gone to check on the children and was headed back to the Tapas Bar."

The above 3 statements are all by Jeremy Wilkins, with the key evidence highlighted in bold. Jez remembers seeing Gerry walking, presumably down the lane toward the tapas bar. This memory would explain why Jez had assumed that Gerry had left the apartment. However, for Jez to have seen Gerry walking and then to have subsequently met Gerry directly in front of the gate, Gerry must have exited the front door. With no mention of seeing Gerry going down the stairs or exiting the gate, it is clearly obvious that Gerry exited the front door.

How about: said person leaves apartment with body, sees JW coming and turns back to quickly deposit body in flower bed before sauntering out to greet JW and engage him in conversation? Do we have a statement from JW which states quite clearly in which direction GM went off after the conversation had ended? IMO he could have gone back to the flower bed, collected the body and proceeded to walk off in the direction of the beach where he bumped into the Smiths? As far as I am aware he didn't return to the Tapas until some time after the conversation with JW?

Whos to say if Gerry kept his clothes or not that he took on that holiday...Eddie never alerted to any of Gerry's clothes

matthew wrote:Whos to say if Gerry kept his clothes or not that he took on that holiday...Eddie never alerted to any of Gerry's clothes

It's an interesting point though - how come the dog only alerted to KM's clothing + the red T-shirt. Was any of GM's clothing laid out on the floor of the garage? If not, why not?

T4two wrote:

matthew wrote:Whos to say if Gerry kept his clothes or not that he took on that holiday...Eddie never alerted to any of Gerry's clothes

It's an interesting point though - how come the dog only alerted to KM's clothing + the red T-shirt. Was any of GM's clothing laid out on the floor of the garage? If not, why not?

There is a video of Eddie being shown all the clothes in several boxes. Apparently there is about 3 hr of footage of the dogs...only a portion released for us to view.

I also keep in mind that there are some very important files that have not been released to us, and likely they are the ones that would pinpoint why they were confident to name the McCanns arguidos and shelve the case.

With examples like the dogs not alerting to Gerry's clothes, it could be multiple reasons OR the results were not released.

I tend to look at the 'reality' of what may have happened and whether there really was a moment when clothes would have touched her body. I have always felt that it may have got on Kate as she hugged Madeleine after she had died. As far as for Gerry...clothes would not need to be touched if he picked up the body and put into somewhere before putting in wardrobe, perhaps.

Of course those who feel it all happened that night would have a very difficult time explaining things and I would love to see the 'timeline' that would be necessary if she died that night.

I find it totally impossible to believe, but I am open to thoughts.