McCanns/Amaral

AnnaEsse wrote:

Marky wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:I'll cancel out the other half now!

you can do that?

Kind of, by giving some positive points to compensate.

oh, i thought it was some magic trick i hadn't found out about yet.

Marky wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

Marky wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:I'll cancel out the other half now!

you can do that?

Kind of, by giving some positive points to compensate.

oh, i thought it was some magic trick i hadn't found out about yet.

AnnaEsse, thanks.

Marky, don't you go destroying my green line with that scythe!

zodiac wrote:

Marky wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

Marky wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:I'll cancel out the other half now!

you can do that?

Kind of, by giving some positive points to compensate.

oh, i thought it was some magic trick i hadn't found out about yet.

AnnaEsse, thanks.

Marky, don't you go destroying my green line with that scythe!

that's for bad boys.

[quote="ann_chovey"]DavidA wrote:I also remember reading, I think in 2007, that some people suggested that an abductor would be more likely to take the toy with the child, to keep the child calmer. .

The toy would be the one thing the abductor would take, as to prise it from her would surely have woken her. If he took the blanket he would take the toy. i.m.o.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post544.html#p544
Moreover, he says that with respect to Madeleine she was in the same position in which he had left her at the beginning of the night. Madeleine was lying down on her left side, completely uncovered, i.e. lying on top of the covers, with the soft toy and blanket, both pink, next to her head; he does not know if they were in the position that can be seen in the photograph attached to the files.

Oh how convenient, she was left uncovered on top of the bed, so another reason I suppose for not finding her DNA inside the bed? And was her head actually on the blanket? Is this why the pillow has no DNA? Were the bedsheets washed that day? Everything else seems to have been washed.

I personally, given the time of year, would say she had to be put to bed properly, and if I had put her to bed properly and gone back to find her uncovered, I would gently pull up the covers again. I do not think it was that warm that you would just lay her on top of the covers and not inside them. Even just a single sheet would be better than nothing. You see they also went to pains to tell us it got cold at night. Also, if a child is tucked up properly they are less likely to fall off the bed. Kids usually like to snuggle down with their favourite toy.

No I do not believe she was put to bed at all. I still believe something happened when Kate had the children to herself earlier when Gerry was playing tennis, and that eventually Madeleine was 'laid to rest' on the sofa. I am just not sure whether this 'rest' was something she could waken from then or whether that horrible realisation that she could not came on Gerry's later check.

Also, one of the memories I have from being little is the security of being tucked up in my bed by my parents. This was important to me, this tucking up, as if I was being enveloped inside the bed and I felt safe.

You see little children, even when their parents are inside the house, can still feel unsafe in their beds. I remember nightmares when I had high temperatures, I remember falling out of bed and if it hadn't been for the blankets and covers falling with me, then cushioning my fall, I could have been hurt.

Little ones like to feel secure at all times and they come to understand that their mommy and daddy will go to bed later than them because they are older people, meaning their mommy and daddy will leave them in a room alone and tell them they are safe etc .so therefore this tucking up process becomes a ritual imo. Well at least it did for me.

Oh, happy days.

LJC wrote:Also, one of the memories I have from being little is the security of being tucked up in my bed by my parents. This was important to me, this tucking up, as if I was being enveloped inside the bed and I felt safe.

You see little children, even when their parents are inside the house, can still feel unsafe in their beds. I remember nightmares when I had high temperatures, I remember falling out of bed and if it hadn't been for the blankets and covers falling with me, then cushioning my fall, I could have been hurt.

Little ones like to feel secure at all times and they come to understand that their mommy and daddy will go to bed later than them because they are older people, meaning their mommy and daddy will leave them in a room alone and tell them they are safe etc .so therefore this tucking up process becomes a ritual imo. Well at least it did for me.

Oh, happy days.

With my son and my daughter, and now with my grandson, my routine is to tuck him in, kiss him goodnight and say, "I'll be back in five minutes." Now, because he doesn't have a concept of what five minutes is, I go back after about three minutes, so that he is usually still awake and he knows I keep my promise. I then say, "I'll be back in ten minutes," and I make it 10 minutes and he is nearly always asleep because, I think, he feels safe, knowing that I am around and looking after him.

And THAT is what being a loving parent of little'uns is all about.
Creating and maintaining a secure environment so that the babies grow into confident little people.

the slave wrote:And THAT is what being a loving parent of little'uns is all about.
Creating and maintaining a secure environment so that the babies grow into confident little people.

Exactly. My garden is really quite big and one day I had gone down to the bottom to fetch a football. My grandson called out, "Nanna Anna, I can't see you." When I came back he said, "Nanna Anna I need to be able to see you to make sure you're safe."!!

I think I'm falling in love with your grandson!

He is protecting you - not himself, little man. Reminds me of this ditty I used to recite regularly to my own protector:
James James
Morrison Morrison
Weatherby George Dupree
Took great
Care of his Mother,
Though he was only three.
James James
Said to his Mother,
"Mother", he said, said he;
"You must never go down to the end of the town,
if you don't go down with me."

---------

King John
Put up a notice,
"LOST or STOLEN or STRAYED!
JAMES JAMES
MORRISON'S MOTHER
SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN MISLAID.
LAST SEEN
WANDERING VAGUELY;
QUITE OF HER OWN ACCORD,
SHE TRIED TO GET DOWN TO THE END OF THE TOWN-
FORTY SHILLINGS REWARD!

widowan wrote:I think I'm falling in love with your grandson!

He is protecting you - not himself, little man. Reminds me of this ditty I used to recite regularly to my own protector:
James James
Morrison Morrison
Weatherby George Dupree
Took great
Care of his Mother,
Though he was only three.
James James
Said to his Mother,
"Mother", he said, said he;
"You must never go down to the end of the town,
if you don't go down with me."

---------

King John
Put up a notice,
"LOST or STOLEN or STRAYED!
JAMES JAMES
MORRISON'S MOTHER
SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN MISLAID.
LAST SEEN
WANDERING VAGUELY;
QUITE OF HER OWN ACCORD,
SHE TRIED TO GET DOWN TO THE END OF THE TOWN-
FORTY SHILLINGS REWARD!

I thought that was a wonderful thing for my grandson to say! And I regularly recite that poem to him since his name is James!

AnnaEsse wrote:

LJC wrote:Also, one of the memories I have from being little is the security of being tucked up in my bed by my parents. This was important to me, this tucking up, as if I was being enveloped inside the bed and I felt safe.

You see little children, even when their parents are inside the house, can still feel unsafe in their beds. I remember nightmares when I had high temperatures, I remember falling out of bed and if it hadn't been for the blankets and covers falling with me, then cushioning my fall, I could have been hurt.

Little ones like to feel secure at all times and they come to understand that their mommy and daddy will go to bed later than them because they are older people, meaning their mommy and daddy will leave them in a room alone and tell them they are safe etc .so therefore this tucking up process becomes a ritual imo. Well at least it did for me.

Oh, happy days.

With my son and my daughter, and now with my grandson, my routine is to tuck him in, kiss him goodnight and say, "I'll be back in five minutes." Now, because he doesn't have a concept of what five minutes is, I go back after about three minutes, so that he is usually still awake and he knows I keep my promise. I then say, "I'll be back in ten minutes," and I make it 10 minutes and he is nearly always asleep because, I think, he feels safe, knowing that I am around and looking after him.

I am welling up. Rep points to both of you in a minute.

Nice.
AA Milne has been a source of great wisdom in this house.

Jem wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

LJC wrote:Also, one of the memories I have from being little is the security of being tucked up in my bed by my parents. This was important to me, this tucking up, as if I was being enveloped inside the bed and I felt safe.

You see little children, even when their parents are inside the house, can still feel unsafe in their beds. I remember nightmares when I had high temperatures, I remember falling out of bed and if it hadn't been for the blankets and covers falling with me, then cushioning my fall, I could have been hurt.

Little ones like to feel secure at all times and they come to understand that their mommy and daddy will go to bed later than them because they are older people, meaning their mommy and daddy will leave them in a room alone and tell them they are safe etc .so therefore this tucking up process becomes a ritual imo. Well at least it did for me.

Oh, happy days.

With my son and my daughter, and now with my grandson, my routine is to tuck him in, kiss him goodnight and say, "I'll be back in five minutes." Now, because he doesn't have a concept of what five minutes is, I go back after about three minutes, so that he is usually still awake and he knows I keep my promise. I then say, "I'll be back in ten minutes," and I make it 10 minutes and he is nearly always asleep because, I think, he feels safe, knowing that I am around and looking after him.

I am welling up. Rep points to both of you in a minute.

Thank you Jem. For me it's very important that small children feel safe, that they know where the person is who is there to care for them and that they know that if a promise is made, a promise is kept. If I say I'll be back in ten minutes, then I go back. I know he'll be asleep by then, but just in case, I go back.

The middle bit reminds me of something not quite as pleasant.

James James
Morrison Morrison
(Commonly known as Jim)
Told his
Other relations
Not to go blaming _him_.
James James
Said to his Mother,
"Mother", he said, said he:
"You must never go down to the end of the town with-
out consulting me."

James James
Morrison's Mother
Hasn't been heard of since.
King John
Said he was sorry,
So did the Queen and Prince.
King John
(Somebody told me)
Said to a man he knew:
"If people go down to the end of the town, well,
what can anyone do?"

And if they got hurt how would it be my fault?

widowan wrote:Nice.
AA Milne has been a source of great wisdom in this house.

My mother-in-law was always called Tigger, a name she was given in her student days because she was very thin!

Now you're scaring me. That was my dad's nickname for me at times - I suppose due to the bouncy aspect.

We try to encourage good "character" in the little ones - - your four year old has more of it than some grown men. Well done.

Where did the figure of 1.2 million euro come from? Is it just a number that the McCanns picked from the air as a sum that would do nicely? If, , the McCanns DID win this court case, would the amount awarded be influenced by how much they asked for? So many questions.... Sorry.

squeaker wrote:Where did the figure of 1.2 million euro come from? Is it just a number that the McCanns picked from the air as a sum that would do nicely? If, , the McCanns DID win this court case, would the amount awarded be influenced by how much they asked for? So many questions.... Sorry.

This equates to roughly 1 million pounds sterling.

They obviously didn't pick that figure from the air.

(Although they might just as well have done 'cos I'll be surprised if they get it!)

It's possible they chose that figure for maximum effect, not too much to be considered greedy but enough to maybe frighten Amaral into backing down.

When I first read about the claim of E1.2 million, it was actually broken down between the whole
family, including Madeleine. Then a bright spark realised that since Madeleine is a Ward of Court,
the McCanns are no longer her Guardians so her name was removed.

They are claiming for detereoration in their health due to Amaral"s Book impeding the search for
Madeleine , how the twins too have suffered etc. They would have to produce Medical Certificates
to substantiate their claim.......would any Doctor be willing to issue Medical Certificates for a whole
family who look so healthy?

Panda wrote:
When I first read about the claim of E1.2 million, it was actually broken down between the whole
family, including Madeleine. Then a bright spark realised that since Madeleine is a Ward of Court,
the McCanns are no longer her Guardians so her name was removed.

They are claiming for detereoration in their health due to Amaral"s Book impeding the search for
Madeleine , how the twins too have suffered etc. They would have to produce Medical Certificates
to substantiate their claim.......would any Doctor be willing to issue Medical Certificates for a whole
family who look so healthy?

Dr McQuack might...

Judge Dread wrote:

Panda wrote:
When I first read about the claim of E1.2 million, it was actually broken down between the whole
family, including Madeleine. Then a bright spark realised that since Madeleine is a Ward of Court,
the McCanns are no longer her Guardians so her name was removed.

They are claiming for detereoration in their health due to Amaral"s Book impeding the search for
Madeleine , how the twins too have suffered etc. They would have to produce Medical Certificates
to substantiate their claim.......would any Doctor be willing to issue Medical Certificates for a whole
family who look so healthy?

Dr McQuack might...

Iv"e thought about this before and to my mind, not even their best Friends would risk their reputation by
filing a Report on the health of the McCann Family. I have a horrible feeling Amaral will lose but the McCanns
will be awarded a paltry sum . I don"t know whether Amaral would have to pay their Legal Expenses, which would be several thousand pounds judging by their Legal entourage.

Panda wrote:

Judge Dread wrote:

Panda wrote:
When I first read about the claim of E1.2 million, it was actually broken down between the whole
family, including Madeleine. Then a bright spark realised that since Madeleine is a Ward of Court,
the McCanns are no longer her Guardians so her name was removed.

They are claiming for detereoration in their health due to Amaral"s Book impeding the search for
Madeleine , how the twins too have suffered etc. They would have to produce Medical Certificates
to substantiate their claim.......would any Doctor be willing to issue Medical Certificates for a whole
family who look so healthy?

Dr McQuack might...

Iv"e thought about this before and to my mind, not even their best Friends would risk their reputation by
filing a Report on the health of the McCann Family. I have a horrible feeling Amaral will lose but the McCanns
will be awarded a paltry sum . I don"t know whether Amaral would have to pay their Legal Expenses, which would be several thousand pounds judging by their Legal entourage.

Personally, I think Amaral has a better than average chance of winning this. The McCann's appear, at least to me, to not want this case to continue and so are bringing pressure to bear in any way they can in the hope that Amaral will finally back down and save them.

I also think there are still a few nasty surprises to come from Amaral when they finally get to court that Team McCann are not going to like.

Surprises that will put them in a truly bad light...

Even if they win...

Mr amarals 'blanket' will be enough to start tougnes wagging...

Panda wrote:
When I first read about the claim of E1.2 million, it was actually broken down between the whole
family, including Madeleine. Then a bright spark realised that since Madeleine is a Ward of Court,
the McCanns are no longer her Guardians so her name was removed.

They are claiming for detereoration in their health due to Amaral"s Book impeding the search for
Madeleine , how the twins too have suffered etc. They would have to produce Medical Certificates
to substantiate their claim.......would any Doctor be willing to issue Medical Certificates for a whole
family who look so healthy?

How have the twins suffered? The only thing that makes them suffer IMO is the constant rubbing of a dead sister in their faces, making Amelie wear her clothes and shoes gives me the creeps, they cannot even sit at the table and color a picture without ghoulish Kate making HER "picture" - their three names, madeleine Sean and Amelie- the chances of her being alive are slim to none the chance of her being restored to them are slimmer to none, why not let them grieve naturally and move on. If by some miracle she is restored to them what a happy occasion. Rather than having this place set at the table, in effect. The parents' constant lawsuits and being distracted from their actual living and present children in order to pursue litigation and Fund raising harms the twins. The fact that their parents lie to them and everyone else about their accountability for this and their responsiblity and what happened to their sister harms them and their moral growth and character and hence self esteem.
These kids are being set up for some major issues as they get older and able to ask questions and reason, the first question, WHERE WERE YOU? Why weren't you there when a bad man took Maddie? being answered "it was like dining in the garden anyways that's boring and we're tired of discussing that let's focus on drawing pictures of the kind of person we think would do such a thing" is sh*te and the kids will know it - they must already sense it. I can't imagine the feelings those two will have when they start to cop on to what has happened, the division this has caused in their own family, in fact. There is a signfificant group of people who revile their parents for their behavior and activities - not just the one policeman who wrote this book
Having your parents stand accused of a crime and having that information out there is arguably damaging however the PJ Files are there for anyone to read as well as all the information they would want, if they ever decide to dig into this. Although I can see the case for libel under UK law I don't see the case that this harms the children any worse than what their own parents have done by continuing to put their interests second to the parents' own.

Amelie and Sean are way too young to have suffered any harm from Amaral's book. Any suffering they would have felt would have been the result of Madeleine being missing, not some book that was published in a foreign country. IMO, the McCann's claims for emotional distress for the twins are completely frivolous, and have just been tacked on to the sum being requested in order to encourage Amaral to settle out of court.

As for the McCann's claims for emotional distress, these will be very hard to prove. How can any medical doctor state that all of their permanent emotional problems (depression, lack of appetite, etc.) are due solely to Amaral's book and have nothing to do with Madeleine actually being missing and their sense of guilt over being responsible? Furthermore, if Gerry is in such a terrible state, could he not be determined to be unfit for practice? Wouldn't this taking an extreme risk on their part?

I don't know how the insurance system works in the UK, but if the McCann's have very good medical benefits, which I assume that they do, then they may not have spent a cent out of pocket for psychological counseling. If all counseling is covered, then there is no claim for any monetary damages. IMO, it is unlikely that a court will award punitive damages only, unless some actual monetary damages can be proven.