Syria warns West against intervention

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10491523/The-Syrian-civil-war-is-breeding-a-new-generation-of-terrorist.html

scroll down to the comments, seems half of Europe are supporting separate jihadists.

Britain holds first face-to-face talks with Islamists fighting Assad

As secular groups lose control of opposition, western allies reach out to hardliners in hope they can find common cause





as many as 300 British passport holders have joined the array of extreme Islamist groups involved in the Syrian civil war, including al-Qaeda

Photo: AFP/Getty Images







Richard Spencer
By Richard Spencer, Middle East Correspondent

7:04PM GMT 04 Dec 2013







Britain and its western allies have held their first face-to-face talks with Islamist factions fighting President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, including militant groups demanding a hardline Sharia state, as the secular forces they previously backed lose ground.


The meeting was held in the Turkish capital, Ankara, officials said, as the western alliance grows increasingly alarmed by the strength of jihadist, al-Qaeda-linked factions that now dominate parts of rebel-held territory.


The western alliance is hoping that non al-Qaeda Islamist groups will form a common cause with the secular Free Syrian Army and the western-backed Syrian National Coalition, despite their deep ideological differences. However, they have previously refused to back several of these Islamist groups for fear that arms sent to moderate groups will just leak to the extremists.


The officially recognised head of the Free Syrian Army, Gen Salem Idriss, this week repeated his belief that if Assad falls from office, rebels will have to join forces with the remnants of his army to drive al-Qaeda forces out of Syria.


“Most of the rebels taking part were from the middle ground, but then moved down the spectrum,” a western official briefed on the talks said. “The aim was to understand where these Islamic groups stand on the spectrum.”


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As regime troops and rebels have fought to a near stalemate in recent months, the most significant development on the ground has been the formation of a new pan-Islamist alliance among the rebels, confirmed at the end of November.

Some of the brigades who signed up were “moderate Islamist” groups which had previously been backed by western allies, such as the Liwa al-Tawhid in Aleppo, and were loyal to Gen Idriss and the FSA’s Supreme Military Council.

But others included Ahrar al-Sham, a hardline Islamist group that has rejected the West and Gen Idriss and since last year fought alongside Jabhat al-Nusra, the al-Qaeda faction that signalled its presence in Syria last year with a series of suicide bombings.

Ahrar was also cited in a Human Rights Watch report alleging the murders of a number of civilians from Assad’s Alawite sect after an attack in the north-west of the country in which it participated.

Both groups contain foreign jihadis, including from Britain, and apart from the general rise of militant Islam intelligence services fear that their growing role may feed back later into Islamist terrorism in Europe.

As such the decision to deal with this new alliance is sensitive and a reversal of previous hopes only to rely on pro-western forces.

However, Britain, America and other western nations have refused to arm any of the rebels directly, and as a result the private Gulf funding of Islamist groups has led to their domination of the battle-front.

The new Islamist alliance is said to make up about half of the total rebel fighting force, if not more, with al-Qaeda groups comprising much of the rest.

The Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, an even more militant and violent group than Jabhat al-Nusra, is now thought to have a core of 5,500 foreign fighters, according to Gen Idriss. It is ISIS which has been responsible for the wave of beheading of opponents and kidnappings of western journalists, showing its roots in the civil war in neighbouring Iraq.

The group was “very dangerous for the future of Syria”, Gen Idriss said in an interview with The Washington Post this week, adding that once the Assad regime fell he hoped to join forces with the remainder of the army from which he defected two years ago to drive the militants out of the country.

Since he now has little support on the ground, that will depend on whether the new Islamist grouping is prepared to turn on their former allies. The new alliance, known as the Islamist Front, is believed to have kept open lines of communication to the Syrian National Coalition, even though it has declared itself opposed to the SNC’s decision to take part in peace talks scheduled for next month.

On the other hand, several of the groups within the Islamist Front have refused to take part in fighting that has broken out between non-jihadist groups and ISIS.

Saudi Arabia has given its backing to the new alliance and is said to be providing it with funds and arms, though a senior officer with the Front denied this to The Daily Telegraph, saying the Saudis were trying to gain influence after the event.

In the summer, following a decision by Washington that the rebels should receive more arms, the Saudis funnelled a quantity of heavier weapons including anti-tank missiles to groups now part of the Front.

They played a significant role in halting an Assad offensive in the north but were not enough for the rebels to launch their own advance.

The meeting in Ankara was arranged by Turkey and Qatar, which have both seen their influence with the rebels slip in recent months as the Saudis have taken a more aggressive position.

On the western side sat Britain, the United States, Turkey, Qatar and other countries that are part of the “Friends of Syria” group that has backed the rebels since early last year. “I think they were curious about what these Islamists wanted from the international community,” the western official said, adding that they accepted the group they were meeting contained elements that could be considered “sinister”.

The official said that Gen Idriss was caught in the middle of a political opposition abroad that believed in democracy and wanted to take part in talks and a fighting force on the ground that wanted a Sharia state, adding: “Idriss wants to be able to bring this group back into the fold of the SMC, and if he can’t, at least to keep their channels of communication open.”

http://news.sky.com/story/1181656/syria-thousands-more-refugees-need-eu-help


Heavy snowfall in the refugee camps has made the situation intolerable, it's tragic but Amnesty International are saying Britain should take more in.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/10524721/Saudi-Arabia-warns-it-will-act-against-Wests-policy-in-Middle-East.html

Somebody has to intervene , millions of Syrians are refugees facing freezing weather with only a tent for shelter, it's inhuman that Assam will not do anything to help his Citizens. On the news yesterday the Reporter interviewed a few British men who have travelled to Syria to support the rebels.Also, a Syrian living in the U.K. returned to treat the injured as a Doctor. He was arrested and jailed, His Family in the U.K. engaged Lawyers to act for him and eventually he was found innocent and was to be freed. Four days before the release date he was found dead, no one would claim responsibility.

REBELS SEIZE ALEPPO HOSPITAL,REBELS TRYING TO REACH PRISON TO FREE COMRADES.

Badboy wrote:REBELS SEIZE ALEPPO HOSPITAL,REBELS TRYING TO REACH PRISON TO FREE COMRADES.

Hi Badboy, somewhere along the line these Rebels are being armed, as has proved. Sometimes a Dictatorship is better than the loss of life and living conditions . Iraq is a prime example, a dreadful loss of life , infrastructure of the Country , yet still no Peace. Wars have spread from the Middle East to Africa , Syria is being demolished , millions of it's Citizens living in Tents .

The Mother of the Doctor murdered by the Syrians in jail 4 days before he was due to be released is at this moment on TV , heartbroken , blaming the U.K. Government for ignoring her letter well before her Son died. He was only there to help the wounded.

SYRIAN JETS HAVE BEEN BOMING IN AND POSSIBLY ON LEBANONESE SOIL.

Badboy wrote:SYRIAN JETS HAVE BEEN BOMING IN AND POSSIBLY ON LEBANONESE SOIL.

As if there is not enough to worry about with the millions of Syrian Refugees, some of who are in Lebanon.Can you find the article Badboy ?

IT WAS ON MSN NEWS,I THINK
THERE HAS BEEN A BOMBING IN LEBANON TARGETING HEZBOLLAH SUBURS.

SYRIA WAR CRIMES

William Hague said perpetrators of human rights abuses in Syria must be brought to justice after gruesome evidence emerged of torture and killings by government forces. London-based investigators examined more than 55,000 photographs said to show the emaciated corpses of victims, some of whom had eyes gouged out and showed signs of electrocution. Speaking in the Commons, the Foreign Secretary said Britain was doing "a great deal" to catalogue evidence of human rights violations. "I've seen a lot of this evidence, it is compelling and horrific and it is important those who have perpetrated these crimes are one day held to account," he said.

If the might of the USA and the UN can't stop Assad , what chance has Britain got ???

extract from James Kirkup ...the Telegraph


SYRIA CRISIS

Britain may take vulnerable Syrian refugees, David Cameron said during a very cordial PMQs today. (Has the Shadow Chancellor, known for his vigorous gesticulations, injured his shoulder?)

The Prime Minister said Britain could give refuge to “extreme hardship cases” from the Syrian refugee camps, such as orphans and the badly wounded. Downing St won’t elaborate on how many will come, or when, or how they will be chosen.

But Cameron has ruled out taking part in a UN refugee quota scheme that would see Britain taking several hundred refugees. Labour say that’s shameful, and have organised a Commons vote next Wednesday

Panda wrote:extract from James Kirkup ...the Telegraph


SYRIA CRISIS

Britain may take vulnerable Syrian refugees, David Cameron said during a very cordial PMQs today. (Has the Shadow Chancellor, known for his vigorous gesticulations, injured his shoulder?)

The Prime Minister said Britain could give refuge to “extreme hardship cases” from the Syrian refugee camps, such as orphans and the badly wounded. Downing St won’t elaborate on how many will come, or when, or how they will be chosen.

But Cameron has ruled out taking part in a UN refugee quota scheme that would see Britain taking several hundred refugees. Labour say that’s shameful, and have organised a Commons vote next Wednesday

New Labour are almost gauranteed to be upset regarding reduced refugee and immigrant quotas, they see these newcomers as potential labour voters.

malena stool wrote:

Panda wrote:extract from James Kirkup ...the Telegraph


SYRIA CRISIS

Britain may take vulnerable Syrian refugees, David Cameron said during a very cordial PMQs today. (Has the Shadow Chancellor, known for his vigorous gesticulations, injured his shoulder?)

The Prime Minister said Britain could give refuge to “extreme hardship cases” from the Syrian refugee camps, such as orphans and the badly wounded. Downing St won’t elaborate on how many will come, or when, or how they will be chosen.

But Cameron has ruled out taking part in a UN refugee quota scheme that would see Britain taking several hundred refugees. Labour say that’s shameful, and have organised a Commons vote next Wednesday

New Labour are almost gauranteed to be upset regarding reduced refugee and immigrant quotas, they see these newcomers as potential labour voters.

The Press reported recently that Britain was taking in 1,500 , a far cry from the "several hundred " Cameron has suggested. The latest is the torture of the dissidents by Assad's Army, this is to be reported to the UN. The Syrian Foreign Minister made a speech today more or less telling the rest of the World to keep out of Syria's affairs. because they didn't understand who is Who among the various dissidents.....which is true.!! Malena the suffering of the innocents who are in refugee camps with no protection from the snow and wind is hard to imagine. Millions scattered around camps in several Countries with nothing, No home to go back to, no education for children who might be in camps for years to come. The Middle East is a cauldron.

http://news.sky.com/story/1199518/syria-terror-offences-two-uk-women-charged

There is no chance of Assad giving in and with all the different groups fighting it is hard to know who is the goodie and who the baddie. This arrest goes to show that the U.K. needs to step up security.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/telegram/100256338/syria-what-made-assads-stalemate-possible/


Read the comments, some very clued up Members .!!!

http://edition.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/01/28/ctw-syria-schools-anderson-pkg.cnn.html


You have to feel sorry for the innocent children caught up in the conflict, especially those on Refugee Camps .

Just seen on the News a picture of literally thousands of Syrians in their own Country queuing amongst all the rubble hoping to be given food. It really is tragic and a measure of the Government's indifference to their plight. These are the innocents, caught up in the War.

I'm not certain now how much of the fighting in Syria is about getting rid of Assad. It does appear that certain factions such as al Qaeda and Isis have a vested interest in keeping it going in order for them to recruit and in effect train extremist elements from the West.

There is a growing worry that these people will come back to Britain/France/Germany etc. familiar with weapons, and fully willing to use them against us.

All of them appear to be determined to reduce the towns and cities of Syria to rubble. What happens to the innocent civilian population being of no concern to any of them. A footnote in history with the terrorists calling them martyrs if they are lucky.

Islam has not advanced at all from it's inception, and all these different terrorist groupings are just as prepared to kill each other along with innocents women and children as they are prepared to fight Assad. if they ever were motivated by that purpose. What I hate is calling them British or German or whatever and jihadis. It takes more than an accident of birth to make someone a British national. Their loyalties are several hundred years ago and not here. nor are they soldiers fighting for justice and freedom they are terrorists who know only one answer to any disagreement - Kill!!!

None of this excuses Assad of course he is as bad as any of them.

I do wonder katertaif whether the West have done more damage to these Countries than if they had stayed out of it. Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq etc have not improved their Governance. Assad was tolerant of Christians, now they are being killed by the rebels. Where are these freedom fighters getting their arms? do Governments know who are the goodies and who the baddies? Do any of them care who they kill, what damage they do to the infrastructure of their Countries?