Madeleine's DNA

gilly4 wrote:I've got three children who although having their own tootbrushes, hairbrushes, towels, pillows etc would have casually used each others, not always deliberately or accidently or as a wind up. So what I'm saying is that you would never know if the dna ad been contaminated on their belongings, fortunately I never had reason to worry about it. It is hard with little children when they are close in age.
IMO the PJ would also realise this, and ask for an item whic almost certainly had M's dna on and that could be tricky. I think a lot of the only 1 tootbrush story was silly newspaper hype.

malena stool wrote:

ELI wrote:

malena stool wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

ELI wrote:

I've never heard that before interested, but nothing would surprise me. You simply don't take 3 children on holiday with only one toothbrush

Old toothbrushes are very useful for cleaning grouting between tiles and cleaning the sealant around the bath and washbasin. Also useful, possibly, for cleaning between floor tiles.

This is just the sort of action all upright and true UK nationals do to a holiday appartment, ensuring it is as clean as when they found it.

..... pity they didn't keep them to clean the hire vehicle as well

Sadly they'd worn the bristles down by then due to their endeavours cleaning the appartment...

ELI wrote:

gilly4 wrote:I've got three children who although having their own tootbrushes, hairbrushes, towels, pillows etc would have casually used each others, not always deliberately or accidently or as a wind up. So what I'm saying is that you would never know if the dna ad been contaminated on their belongings, fortunately I never had reason to worry about it. It is hard with little children when they are close in age.
IMO the PJ would also realise this, and ask for an item whic almost certainly had M's dna on and that could be tricky. I think a lot of the only 1 tootbrush story was silly newspaper hype.

Perhaps gilly4 but there would have been things that did have her DNA on them and they did have genetic profiles of the twins to compare anything to.

gilly4 wrote:

ELI wrote:

gilly4 wrote:I've got three children who although having their own tootbrushes, hairbrushes, towels, pillows etc would have casually used each others, not always deliberately or accidently or as a wind up. So what I'm saying is that you would never know if the dna ad been contaminated on their belongings, fortunately I never had reason to worry about it. It is hard with little children when they are close in age.
IMO the PJ would also realise this, and ask for an item whic almost certainly had M's dna on and that could be tricky. I think a lot of the only 1 tootbrush story was silly newspaper hype.

Perhaps gilly4 but there would have been things that did have her DNA on them and they did have genetic profiles of the twins to compare anything to.

Yes, I obviously didn't explain myself well enough; but that was what I meant in my next to last sentence. I'm not being awkward but my 3 were very close together in age and close together in every day life. They got in my bed, they got in each others bed, they shared baths and towels got mixed up. Even now they will put each oters shoes or coats on to go out in the garden when finding our puppy! It would be relatively easy now to find something of theirs, but has it been contaminated by giving a friend a hug or by sitting on a bus seat?

AnnaEsse wrote:

malena stool wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

ELI wrote:

interested wrote:Does anyone know if the McCanns were ever asked by the press why three children shared the same toothbrush. I remember reading on the old Mirror forum one of the posters suggested that two toothbrushes were probably used during the clean-up.

I've never heard that before interested, but nothing would surprise me. You simply don't take 3 children on holiday with only one toothbrush

Old toothbrushes are very useful for cleaning grouting between tiles and cleaning the sealant around the bath and washbasin. Also useful, possibly, for cleaning between floor tiles.

This is just the sort of action all upright and true UK nationals do to a holiday appartment, ensuring it is as clean as when they found it.

Of course it is, malena. Don't you do the floor tiles and the bathroom grouting before you go home? I'm shocked!

Panda wrote:It appears the whole question of DNA was badly handled. Gerry goes home to collect Madeleines DNA and only chooses one item from Madeleines B/Room?

He is a Doctor, far more aware than most about uncontaminated DNA so wouldn't you think he would bring back a few items , like toys ,books, which
were solely Madeleines.? Kate, another Doctor who should have been aware , washes cuddlecat.!!! The FSS performs 2 Tests, the first has 15 of 19
alleles matching which Stuart Prior said were sufficient to prosecute in the U.K., the second suggests there is insufficient evidence to indicate Madeleine's
DNA in the wheelbase.

This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a
prosecution so as soon as this Review is over, I hope the PJ close the case. The McCanns , if they have any conscience should close the Fund, donate what's left of the money to a Charity experienced in searching for missing children , including Madeleiene.

malena stool wrote:

Panda wrote:It appears the whole question of DNA was badly handled. Gerry goes home to collect Madeleines DNA and only chooses one item from Madeleines B/Room?

He is a Doctor, far more aware than most about uncontaminated DNA so wouldn't you think he would bring back a few items , like toys ,books, which
were solely Madeleines.? Kate, another Doctor who should have been aware , washes cuddlecat.!!! The FSS performs 2 Tests, the first has 15 of 19
alleles matching which Stuart Prior said were sufficient to prosecute in the U.K., the second suggests there is insufficient evidence to indicate Madeleine's
DNA in the wheelbase.

This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a
prosecution so as soon as this Review is over, I hope the PJ close the case. The McCanns , if they have any conscience should close the Fund, donate what's left of the money to a Charity experienced in searching for missing children , including Madeleiene.

And then live happily as Pariahs ever after.

humanist wrote:I don't think they used the brushes for cleaning the grouting and such.
I think it was more what they did not want to be found on the brushes.
If they produced the brushes and Madeleine's dna was not on any of them then that would just be too suspsicious at that time - but to say a shared toothbrush and thus of no value - well that takes the heat off.
And really obviously the suspicion would be if there any missing toothbrushes that they had been used for cleaning. So for them to take the risk with this little story must have been worth it in some other sense.

Panda wrote:

malena stool wrote:

Panda wrote:It appears the whole question of DNA was badly handled. Gerry goes home to collect Madeleines DNA and only chooses one item from Madeleines B/Room?

He is a Doctor, far more aware than most about uncontaminated DNA so wouldn't you think he would bring back a few items , like toys ,books, which
were solely Madeleines.? Kate, another Doctor who should have been aware , washes cuddlecat.!!! The FSS performs 2 Tests, the first has 15 of 19
alleles matching which Stuart Prior said were sufficient to prosecute in the U.K., the second suggests there is insufficient evidence to indicate Madeleine's
DNA in the wheelbase.

This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a
prosecution so as soon as this Review is over, I hope the PJ close the case. The McCanns , if they have any conscience should close the Fund, donate what's left of the money to a Charity experienced in searching for missing children , including Madeleiene.

And then live happily as Pariahs ever after.

Morning malena.....talk about milking the cow dry, what the Hell is Kate going to write in her new bewk???

gilly4 wrote:

ELI wrote:

gilly4 wrote:I've got three children who although having their own tootbrushes, hairbrushes, towels, pillows etc would have casually used each others, not always deliberately or accidently or as a wind up. So what I'm saying is that you would never know if the dna ad been contaminated on their belongings, fortunately I never had reason to worry about it. It is hard with little children when they are close in age.
IMO the PJ would also realise this, and ask for an item whic almost certainly had M's dna on and that could be tricky. I think a lot of the only 1 tootbrush story was silly newspaper hype.

Perhaps gilly4 but there would have been things that did have her DNA on them and they did have genetic profiles of the twins to compare anything to.

Yes, I obviously didn't explain myself well enough; but that was what I meant in my next to last sentence. I'm not being awkward but my 3 were very close together in age and close together in every day life. They got in my bed, they got in each others bed, they shared baths and towels got mixed up. Even now they will put each oters shoes or coats on to go out in the garden when finding our puppy! It would be relatively easy now to find something of theirs, but has it been contaminated by giving a friend a hug or by sitting on a bus seat?

Panda wrote:

humanist wrote:I don't think they used the brushes for cleaning the grouting and such.
I think it was more what they did not want to be found on the brushes.
If they produced the brushes and Madeleine's dna was not on any of them then that would just be too suspsicious at that time - but to say a shared toothbrush and thus of no value - well that takes the heat off.
And really obviously the suspicion would be if there any missing toothbrushes that they had been used for cleaning. So for them to take the risk with this little story must have been worth it in some other sense.

Morning Humanist, this whole case was badly investigated from the beginning. and there was ample evidence of Madeleine's DNA besides the toothbrush.

Kate managed to find hair from Madeleine weeks after the abduction which she gave to Krugel to use with his gizmo. Also, Madeleine's sandals and clothes were shipped to the U.K. long before the McCanns left Portugal. As I said, the investigation of this case was badly handled . Once it was established that
Kate's story about the curtain blowing and the Tapas 9 statements had more holes than a Colander the PJ should have been firmer because there was
absolutely no evidence of abduction.

Panda wrote:It appears the whole question of DNA was badly handled. Gerry goes home to collect Madeleines DNA and only chooses one item from Madeleines B/Room?

He is a Doctor, far more aware than most about uncontaminated DNA so wouldn't you think he would bring back a few items , like toys ,books, which
were solely Madeleines.? Kate, another Doctor who should have been aware , washes cuddlecat.!!! The FSS performs 2 Tests, the first has 15 of 19
alleles matching which Stuart Prior said were sufficient to prosecute in the U.K., the second suggests there is insufficient evidence to indicate Madeleine's
DNA in the wheelbase.

This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a
prosecution so as soon as this Review is over, I hope the PJ close the case. The McCanns , if they have any conscience should close the Fund, donate what's left of the money to a Charity experienced in searching for missing children , including Madeleiene.

ELI wrote:

Panda wrote:It appears the whole question of DNA was badly handled. Gerry goes home to collect Madeleines DNA and only chooses one item from Madeleines B/Room?

He is a Doctor, far more aware than most about uncontaminated DNA so wouldn't you think he would bring back a few items , like toys ,books, which
were solely Madeleines.? Kate, another Doctor who should have been aware , washes cuddlecat.!!! The FSS performs 2 Tests, the first has 15 of 19
alleles matching which Stuart Prior said were sufficient to prosecute in the U.K., the second suggests there is insufficient evidence to indicate Madeleine's
DNA in the wheelbase.

This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a
prosecution so as soon as this Review is over, I hope the PJ close the case. The McCanns , if they have any conscience should close the Fund, donate what's left of the money to a Charity experienced in searching for missing children , including Madeleiene.

Morning Panda, on the one hand it does look as though mistakes were made, yet I think there is evidence that the investigation did infact try to find something in order to create a genetic profile of Madeleine but were unsuccessful.

Panda said:
This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a prosecution

Panda wrote:

ELI wrote:

Panda wrote:It appears the whole question of DNA was badly handled. Gerry goes home to collect Madeleines DNA and only chooses one item from Madeleines B/Room?

He is a Doctor, far more aware than most about uncontaminated DNA so wouldn't you think he would bring back a few items , like toys ,books, which
were solely Madeleines.? Kate, another Doctor who should have been aware , washes cuddlecat.!!! The FSS performs 2 Tests, the first has 15 of 19
alleles matching which Stuart Prior said were sufficient to prosecute in the U.K., the second suggests there is insufficient evidence to indicate Madeleine's
DNA in the wheelbase.

This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a
prosecution so as soon as this Review is over, I hope the PJ close the case. The McCanns , if they have any conscience should close the Fund, donate what's left of the money to a Charity experienced in searching for missing children , including Madeleiene.

Morning Panda, on the one hand it does look as though mistakes were made, yet I think there is evidence that the investigation did infact try to find something in order to create a genetic profile of Madeleine but were unsuccessful.

I don't know where you are, but it's afternoon here Eli.

I think the Portugese Police were overawed by the Tapas 9, Press, the British Ambassador descending on PDL within 24 hours , the U.K Police arriving, QC,s and Family Lawyers,Control Risk etc and never really took command. Iv'e said many times, if the PJ had insisted on a recon while the McCanns
were still in Portugal who knows what might have transpired. There was also the Language barrier because I understand not many Portugese Police
speak English which is why they had to bring in Translators. There has been discussion here about new born Babies having their DNA recorded in the
U.K. but I think Madeleine was born in Holland....might be wrong.... yet I believe it was confirmed that Gerry was the Father, so there had to have been
DNA sampls from Madeleine to prove that so where are they.?

I remember reading that the Portugese Forensic Dept was considered not as superior to the FSS but some samples were sent to the Portugese at the same time as some sent to the FSS. The Portugese had their samples tested and a Report within two weeks. the FSS took several weeks to analyse
theirs.

duncanmac wrote:

Panda said:
This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a prosecution

Glad to hear someone other than myself shares this view.
I took some grief off Claudia for even daring to mention this.
I think a confession without the body may secure a conviction

ELI wrote:

Panda wrote:

ELI wrote:

Panda wrote:It appears the whole question of DNA was badly handled. Gerry goes home to collect Madeleines DNA and only chooses one item from Madeleines B/Room?

He is a Doctor, far more aware than most about uncontaminated DNA so wouldn't you think he would bring back a few items , like toys ,books, which
were solely Madeleines.? Kate, another Doctor who should have been aware , washes cuddlecat.!!! The FSS performs 2 Tests, the first has 15 of 19
alleles matching which Stuart Prior said were sufficient to prosecute in the U.K., the second suggests there is insufficient evidence to indicate Madeleine's
DNA in the wheelbase.

This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a
prosecution so as soon as this Review is over, I hope the PJ close the case. The McCanns , if they have any conscience should close the Fund, donate what's left of the money to a Charity experienced in searching for missing children , including Madeleiene.

Morning Panda, on the one hand it does look as though mistakes were made, yet I think there is evidence that the investigation did infact try to find something in order to create a genetic profile of Madeleine but were unsuccessful.

I don't know where you are, but it's afternoon here Eli.

I think the Portugese Police were overawed by the Tapas 9, Press, the British Ambassador descending on PDL within 24 hours , the U.K Police arriving, QC,s and Family Lawyers,Control Risk etc and never really took command. Iv'e said many times, if the PJ had insisted on a recon while the McCanns
were still in Portugal who knows what might have transpired. There was also the Language barrier because I understand not many Portugese Police
speak English which is why they had to bring in Translators. There has been discussion here about new born Babies having their DNA recorded in the
U.K. but I think Madeleine was born in Holland....might be wrong.... yet I believe it was confirmed that Gerry was the Father, so there had to have been
DNA sampls from Madeleine to prove that so where are they.?

I remember reading that the Portugese Forensic Dept was considered not as superior to the FSS but some samples were sent to the Portugese at the same time as some sent to the FSS. The Portugese had their samples tested and a Report within two weeks. the FSS took several weeks to analyse
theirs.

Ah ..... morning then ...... yes I couldn't agree more about the confusion created by all the people and agencies involved. However forensics were done and samples collected which were later tested, samples which didn't come with a name tag so all where ever possible needed to be identified, none though belonging to the primary person in this investigation.

duncanmac wrote:

Panda said:
This whole investigation has been a minefield of errors, rookie cops, interference , until and unless Madeleine's body is found there can never be a prosecution

Glad to hear someone other than myself shares this view.
I took some grief off Claudia for even daring to mention this.
I think a confession without the body may secure a conviction

tigger wrote:Hi Panda, First, I don't think the FSS were inept because their fist report was perfectly in order. You may remember that GB visited both FSS and Leicester Police H.Q. on the same day, after which both developed terminal memory loss. The FSS brought out a second report which included the contamination by members of staff - (this is rubbish because all staff DNA is on record just to avoid such things happening).
Then they threw away the samples - consider that the evidence of Stephen Lawrence was kept for 15 years! This is never done! All evidence is kept in case future techniques will be able to e.g. separate contamination from the sample.

The PJ did try to collect Maddie's DNA (pink blanket disappeared, celebrity cuddle cat was washed and on Saturday the 5th May ALL children's clothes were washed at the OC laundry - this is all in the PJ files). Yes they should have been quicker, but initially they were looking for a live girl and DNA was a secondary matter.
As the Ambassador was on hand as early as the 4th - the consul at 10.00 am. ( 12 hours after the 'alarm') being heard to tell H.Q. that the PJ were doing nothing - it's my guess that the 'English gag' was already in place.

Incidentally, the saliva sample from the pillow in Rothley was collected by a member of Leicester police who was with Gerry at the house.

At a later date, Philomena collected another pillowcase or something to sent to Portugal, probably for Kruger I think.

Thanks tigger, Iv'e read all this before, wasn't it Trafigura the Company involved? It still doesn't explain WHY the McCanns were so sheltered. If a
Policeman was with Gerry, why didn't HE suggest taking more than one item from Madeleine's room . We know the McCanns were friendly with the Blairs
and I read that Gerry was a FundRaiser for the Labour Party. If that was true the chances are he might have known about illegal donations to the Party
which was/is very short of Funds. I don't subscribe to the Freemasons theory, and think that the PJ should have been more proactive and accompanied
Gerry, not the Leicester Police , especially since by that time the PJ were suspicious.

The twins were conceived in Amsterdam and born in UK as was Maddy. I doubt they ever had to pay for IVF - it certainly was free in Amsterdam.

Socrates was known to have taken a large bribe for some or other UK/Portugal contract. GB met S in Lisbon and I'm sure the deal re Maddie was hammered out pretty early. GB didn't have the power to sack Amaral, but his own government did.

Panda wrote:

tigger wrote:Hi Panda, First, I don't think the FSS were inept because their fist report was perfectly in order. You may remember that GB visited both FSS and Leicester Police H.Q. on the same day, after which both developed terminal memory loss. The FSS brought out a second report which included the contamination by members of staff - (this is rubbish because all staff DNA is on record just to avoid such things happening).
Then they threw away the samples - consider that the evidence of Stephen Lawrence was kept for 15 years! This is never done! All evidence is kept in case future techniques will be able to e.g. separate contamination from the sample.

The PJ did try to collect Maddie's DNA (pink blanket disappeared, celebrity cuddle cat was washed and on Saturday the 5th May ALL children's clothes were washed at the OC laundry - this is all in the PJ files). Yes they should have been quicker, but initially they were looking for a live girl and DNA was a secondary matter.
As the Ambassador was on hand as early as the 4th - the consul at 10.00 am. ( 12 hours after the 'alarm') being heard to tell H.Q. that the PJ were doing nothing - it's my guess that the 'English gag' was already in place.

Incidentally, the saliva sample from the pillow in Rothley was collected by a member of Leicester police who was with Gerry at the house.

At a later date, Philomena collected another pillowcase or something to sent to Portugal, probably for Kruger I think.

Thanks tigger, Iv'e read all this before, wasn't it Trafigura the Company involved? It still doesn't explain WHY the McCanns were so sheltered. If a
Policeman was with Gerry, why didn't HE suggest taking more than one item from Madeleine's room . We know the McCanns were friendly with the Blairs
and I read that Gerry was a FundRaiser for the Labour Party. If that was true the chances are he might have known about illegal donations to the Party
which was/is very short of Funds. I don't subscribe to the Freemasons theory, and think that the PJ should have been more proactive and accompanied
Gerry, not the Leicester Police , especially since by that time the PJ were suspicious.

The twins were conceived in Amsterdam and born in UK as was Maddy. I doubt they ever had to pay for IVF - it certainly was free in Amsterdam.

Socrates was known to have taken a large bribe for some or other UK/Portugal contract. GB met S in Lisbon and I'm sure the deal re Maddie was hammered out pretty early. GB didn't have the power to sack Amaral, but his own government did.