The Sun - Madeleine's room - same as six years ago

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

Panda wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:Whatever SY do or do not find, I'm darned sure we'll never know about it. When have the police ever kept the public abreast of details of any investigations they're involved in - as it should be.

Hi dazedandconfused.......how often have we said the McCanns have received unparalled protection and help , why should we assume this expensive Review, to please the McCanns, will acheive anything.?

Panda I've come to the conclusion that this case will be solved :) ....if the Government and "others" where protecting the McCanns why are we all STILL discussing this 7 years later, if they were so highly and well protected I don't believe any of us would discussing this case to day it would have all been covered up, END OF.

My theory is that the McCanns have been advise excellently and that this case is all about money and lots of it.....that's what is stopping the McCanns from arrest or this case been re-opened Portugal just can't afford to take them on financially and also they have to have everything water tight because of this......
That's the only reason this case hasn't been solved yet, no more fund = no more protection!

Hi LOTV I think the Portugese are very btoke and would not want to open the case and have lengthy Legal expenses and the eyes of the World on them again, as the Judge said, "show me the body." On a flight the same year Madeleine went missing I was sitting next to a couple , got chatting and it turned out the Husband was an ex Detective!!! Needless to say I asked what he thought of the Mccann Case and he said all the Police at his station believed the Parents were complicit in Madeleine's disappearance but it could not be proved . I also attended a Wedding Reception a few months earlier and sitting with a couple of friends, the young man with them was thier Son, about 30yrs old and he was a Policeman at the MET. Told me a friend of his was seconded to Leicester Police and said the McCanns were "heavily involved" but the B* wouldn't tell me any more. So you see, we are no further ahead and the one event which would help , the McCann/ Amaral Trial seems not be considered important enough to warrant an eaarly hearing.!!!!

As a Portuguese tax paying citizen I demand for the McCann case exactly the same than any other missing child cases: for it to continue open until Madeleine is found, dead or alive, or until there are answers. No other unsolved case of a missing child in Portugal has ever been shelved.

Panda wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

Panda wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:Whatever SY do or do not find, I'm darned sure we'll never know about it. When have the police ever kept the public abreast of details of any investigations they're involved in - as it should be.

Hi dazedandconfused.......how often have we said the McCanns have received unparalled protection and help , why should we assume this expensive Review, to please the McCanns, will acheive anything.?

Panda I've come to the conclusion that this case will be solved :) ....if the Government and "others" where protecting the McCanns why are we all STILL discussing this 7 years later, if they were so highly and well protected I don't believe any of us would discussing this case to day it would have all been covered up, END OF.

My theory is that the McCanns have been advise excellently and that this case is all about money and lots of it.....that's what is stopping the McCanns from arrest or this case been re-opened Portugal just can't afford to take them on financially and also they have to have everything water tight because of this......
That's the only reason this case hasn't been solved yet, no more fund = no more protection!

Hi LOTV I think the Portugese are very btoke and would not want to open the case and have lengthy Legal expenses and the eyes of the World on them again, as the Judge said, "show me the body." On a flight the same year Madeleine went missing I was sitting next to a couple , got chatting and it turned out the Husband was an ex Detective!!! Needless to say I asked what he thought of the Mccann Case and he said all the Police at his station believed the Parents were complicit in Madeleine's disappearance but it could not be proved . I also attended a Wedding Reception a few months earlier and sitting with a couple of friends, the young man with them was thier Son, about 30yrs old and he was a Policeman at the MET. Told me a friend of his was seconded to Leicester Police and said the McCanns were "heavily involved" but the B* wouldn't tell me any more. So you see, we are no further ahead and the one event which would help , the McCann/ Amaral Trial seems not be considered important enough to warrant an eaarly hearing.!!!!

Panda, are you sure the judge said that, "show me the body", because everything I've read says it was Gerry. Heres an example of what I've read....

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/5sep7/Express-13-09-07.htm

Claudia79 wrote:As a Portuguese tax paying citizen I demand for the McCann case exactly the same than any other missing child cases: for it to continue open until Madeleine is found, dead or alive, or until there are answers. No other unsolved case of a missing child in Portugal has ever been shelved.

I seem to remember there is a time limit of 20 0r 25 years,. It stands to reason Claudia that if the Portugese Judiciary say now that there is not enough evidence to open the case and a Judge says "show me the body", unless Madeleine.s body is found , the case is effectively shelved.

wjk wrote:

Panda wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

Panda wrote:

dazedandconfused wrote:Whatever SY do or do not find, I'm darned sure we'll never know about it. When have the police ever kept the public abreast of details of any investigations they're involved in - as it should be.

Hi dazedandconfused.......how often have we said the McCanns have received unparalled protection and help , why should we assume this expensive Review, to please the McCanns, will acheive anything.?

Panda I've come to the conclusion that this case will be solved :) ....if the Government and "others" where protecting the McCanns why are we all STILL discussing this 7 years later, if they were so highly and well protected I don't believe any of us would discussing this case to day it would have all been covered up, END OF.

My theory is that the McCanns have been advise excellently and that this case is all about money and lots of it.....that's what is stopping the McCanns from arrest or this case been re-opened Portugal just can't afford to take them on financially and also they have to have everything water tight because of this......
That's the only reason this case hasn't been solved yet, no more fund = no more protection!

I'm quite positive wjk. The Portugese Prosecutor approached a JUdge to ask if there was ebough evidence to charge the McCanns

Hi LOTV I think the Portugese are very btoke and would not want to open the case and have lengthy Legal expenses and the eyes of the World on them again, as the Judge said, "show me the body." On a flight the same year Madeleine went missing I was sitting next to a couple , got chatting and it turned out the Husband was an ex Detective!!! Needless to say I asked what he thought of the Mccann Case and he said all the Police at his station believed the Parents were complicit in Madeleine's disappearance but it could not be proved . I also attended a Wedding Reception a few months earlier and sitting with a couple of friends, the young man with them was thier Son, about 30yrs old and he was a Policeman at the MET. Told me a friend of his was seconded to Leicester Police and said the McCanns were "heavily involved" but the B* wouldn't tell me any more. So you see, we are no further ahead and the one event which would help , the McCann/ Amaral Trial seems not be considered important enough to warrant an eaarly hearing.!!!!

Panda, are you sure the judge said that, "show me the body", because everything I've read says it was Gerry. Heres an example of what I've read....

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/5sep7/Express-13-09-07.htm

I,m quite positive wjk, a Portugese Prosecutor want to a Judge to ask if there was enough evidence to go to Court and the Judge said "show me the body. The Court also ruled that the phone calls could not be used in a Trial because it was too intrusive .

It wasn't even Gerry directly. It was a "source close to the family" who said that Gerry said "show us the body and prove we killed her". He's been very clever to deflect any potential fallout onto somebody else, always has been from the word go.

Panda, are you sure the judge said that, "show me the body", because everything I've read says it was Gerry. Heres an example of what I've read....

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/5sep7/Express-13-09-07.htm

[/quote]


I've read lots of reports of the "show me the body" quote that but didn't realise a judge had said it too. Perhaps Claudia could clarify.

I think I do remember that the prosecutor said that without a body there wasn't a case.

By Caroline Gammell in Praia da Luz12:01AM BST 24 Sep 2007
Portuguese police have been told they must find Madeleine McCann's body if a killer is to be brought to justic

Detectives in the Algarve are under intense pressure to trace the missing four-year-old after all leads in the case have so far led to nothing.
After 145 days, the investigation has reached a virtual standstill with no substantial evidence against Kate and Gerry McCann or the only other suspect in the case, Robert Murat.
Police have been told that the case is "hanging by a thread" unless a body is found.
One of Portugal's most senior prosecutors said it would be very difficult to secure a conviction without a body or a confession.
A police source told Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas that it would be "almost impossible" for the district attorney to accuse anyone if the authorities do not find the missing girl.
"The PJ has received instructions from the district attorney's office to find Madeleine's body at all costs," the source continued.
"It is currently our great priority and operations are being worked on without success - finding the body is fundamental to solving the case."
Antonio Cluny, president of Portugal's public prosecutor's service, said: "Without the little girl's body everything is extremely complicated.
"There have been cases in which it was possible to obtain a conviction without there being a victim but there were confessions.
"One cannot accuse a person of homicide without there being very strong evidence.
"In the Madeleine case there is no confession and - according to what has been made public - the evidence gathered up until now keep all leads open from abduction to homicide or at least to a simple accident."
Mr Cluny said there were concerns that changes in the law may force police to reveal their case before all the evidence is gathered.
Further forensic results are expected from the Forensic Science Services in Birmingham in the next few days.
In the UK, Mr and Mrs McCann revealed that they had faced up to the possibility that Madeleine may be dead.
Their spokesman Clarence Mitchell said their "turmoil" had been made worse by being made official suspects in her disappearance.
"They are a family facing possible bereavement," he said. "They hope desperately that the next phone call is 'We have found her and she's OK'.
"I am not naive but that is still a possibility.
"It's every parent's worst nightmare. And then to have that extra pressure heaped upon them. It's the worst situation times two, times ten."

That does not mean that a judge said "show me the body". In fact it says that there could still be a case without a body, although it would be very difficult.

http://msngroup.aimoo.com/madeleinemccann/quotes.msnw-action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=163&LastModified=4675660034800528338.htm

Iris wrote:It wasn't even Gerry directly. It was a "source close to the family" who said that Gerry said "show us the body and prove we killed her". He's been very clever to deflect any potential fallout onto somebody else, always has been from the word go.

Yes, that's right. A 'source'.

I've also found this from an interview with G Amaral and Hernâni Carvalho

GA: There is an important aspect and that is the diary of Mrs Kate McCann. There are some who have the opinion the diary was written to be read. At a certain point in time, following the dates given there just a few days after the disappearance, Mrs Kate McCann says that she is running, doing her jogging – the daughter is missing and she is doing her training – and on there, on that plateau that we are seeing right now, she said that she was climbing it when she saw a number of journalists, of people, and that she begun suspecting that the body of her daughter had been found. That is in her diary. She points to that area. When they have hired...

HC: But pointing to that place, is using as basis that the child has lost her life?!

GA: Exactly, it was always like that, since the beginning the parents, at least Kate McCann, have always spoken about the death of the child. Those emails that they delivered [to the PJ] of a clairvoyant that explained where the body could be, beneath the church area, inside a sewer collector.

HC: I cannot agree with that... I believe it was Gerry. Gerry said, "If you think the girl is dead then show me her body".

GA: Well, perhaps he knows that there is no body. That is another question; I do not know why he says that there must be a body. In order to prove that the child is dead it is not necessary to have a body. Actually, in this case, if we could abstract ourselves of the name of the child that disappeared, of the child's parents and just look at the facts, in an objective manner and move forward with the investigation, facts would speak for themselves! There is no point in saying that the child is dead, or that the child is alive, what we need is to work the investigation and carry it out to the end, something that was not done. Let us forget for a few moments who is Madeleine McCann, who are Madeleine McCann's parents, and let us look at the facts objectively. At facts that are in a process, that some have already tried to dismiss as being historical, as if the process had no importance. We will only know the truth – and that is what matters - and in that truth we will know if the child is alive or dead, and where she can be, what happened to her; if we proceed based on those facts.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id408.html

Iris wrote:It wasn't even Gerry directly. It was a "source close to the family" who said that Gerry said "show us the body and prove we killed her". He's been very clever to deflect any potential fallout onto somebody else, always has been from the word go.

Yep! Gerry seems to be good at that. Jane Tanner "saw" the abductor, but Gerry didn't see her, so if she were to be shown up as a liar, it's nothing to do with him because he didn't see her or the abductor! Throw Jane under the bus!

As he will Kate too he'll sling them both together imo.....Gerry looks after Gerry

Panda wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:As a Portuguese tax paying citizen I demand for the McCann case exactly the same than any other missing child cases: for it to continue open until Madeleine is found, dead or alive, or until there are answers. No other unsolved case of a missing child in Portugal has ever been shelved.

I seem to remember there is a time limit of 20 0r 25 years,. It stands to reason Claudia that if the Portugese Judiciary say now that there is not enough evidence to open the case and a Judge says "show me the body", unless Madeleine.s body is found , the case is effectively shelved.

No, there isn't. There is a time limit in which the culprit can be tried and convicted. There is not a time limit for an unsolved missing child to be shelved. Until the child is found or someone convicted, the case is open. Madeleine's was the first case of a missing child to get shelved.

There have been several cases of convictions without bodies here in Portugal. One of them quite recently.

Easy to see how forum myths originate when things are stated as fact, when they aren't. Thankfully there are so many here who can find documentation in an instant, so well done to all those who provide the links. It always amazes me how you do it. I'd still be looking weeks later.

Claudia79 wrote:

Panda wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:As a Portuguese tax paying citizen I demand for the McCann case exactly the same than any other missing child cases: for it to continue open until Madeleine is found, dead or alive, or until there are answers. No other unsolved case of a missing child in Portugal has ever been shelved.

I seem to remember there is a time limit of 20 0r 25 years,. It stands to reason Claudia that if the Portugese Judiciary say now that there is not enough evidence to open the case and a Judge says "show me the body", unless Madeleine.s body is found , the case is effectively shelved.

No, there isn't. There is a time limit in which the culprit can be tried and convicted. There is not a time limit for an unsolved missing child to be shelved. Until the child is found or someone convicted, the case is open. Madeleine's was the first case of a missing child to get shelved.

Am I right in thinking that the McCanns also asked for the case to be shelved? So they could bring in their own Private Investigators?
Or is that a forum myth?

wjk wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Panda wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:As a Portuguese tax paying citizen I demand for the McCann case exactly the same than any other missing child cases: for it to continue open until Madeleine is found, dead or alive, or until there are answers. No other unsolved case of a missing child in Portugal has ever been shelved.

I seem to remember there is a time limit of 20 0r 25 years,. It stands to reason Claudia that if the Portugese Judiciary say now that there is not enough evidence to open the case and a Judge says "show me the body", unless Madeleine.s body is found , the case is effectively shelved.

No, there isn't. There is a time limit in which the culprit can be tried and convicted. There is not a time limit for an unsolved missing child to be shelved. Until the child is found or someone convicted, the case is open. Madeleine's was the first case of a missing child to get shelved.

Am I right in thinking that the McCanns also asked for the case to be shelved? So they could bring in their own Private Investigators?
Or is that a forum myth?

Well, they certainly didn't oppose it. There was once talk that Rui Pedro's case was going to be shelved. His mother, who is one of the people I admire the most on this planet, wrote a letter saying she opposed the shelving with all her strength and that she would do whatever she had to do to stop it. The case was never shelved. Rui Pedro went missing in 1998.

wjk wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:

Panda wrote:

Claudia79 wrote:As a Portuguese tax paying citizen I demand for the McCann case exactly the same than any other missing child cases: for it to continue open until Madeleine is found, dead or alive, or until there are answers. No other unsolved case of a missing child in Portugal has ever been shelved.

I seem to remember there is a time limit of 20 0r 25 years,. It stands to reason Claudia that if the Portugese Judiciary say now that there is not enough evidence to open the case and a Judge says "show me the body", unless Madeleine.s body is found , the case is effectively shelved.

No, there isn't. There is a time limit in which the culprit can be tried and convicted. There is not a time limit for an unsolved missing child to be shelved. Until the child is found or someone convicted, the case is open. Madeleine's was the first case of a missing child to get shelved.

Am I right in thinking that the McCanns also asked for the case to be shelved? So they could bring in their own Private Investigators?
Or is that a forum myth?

I read some information on the internet (not a forum) that when the McCanns requested the files, they were told that the investigation would have to cease, for this to happen. The McCanns supposedly agreed for the investigation to cease, saying they would bring in their own P.I's.

I don't know whether this is true or not. However Goncalo Amaral stated that the McCanns 'demanded the archiving of the process' when they were arguidos, but for different reasons than the ones I read on the 'net.

http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/

Do you ever wonder if you don't know if something is true or not then really it meansnothing.

snowflake wrote:Do you ever wonder if you don't know if something is true or not then really it meansnothing.

I sometimes wonder if something is true or not, in which case I'll do my best to find out. I don't think I tend to wonder if I don't know. I usually realise when I don't know something.

Thanks Claudia and Kathy. Sometimes I need to jog my memory, there is so much info to take in and remember.

snowflake, no.

wjk wrote:Thanks Claudia and Kathy. Sometimes I need to jog my memory, there is so much info to take in and remember.

snowflake, no.

It's a pleasure, wjk.

I tried to find the information, regarding the investigation closing if the McCanns obtained the files, but with no success. A lot of information that was on the 'net in the beginning, has disappeared.

However since Goncalo Amaral, has stated that the McCanns requested the process was closed, I tend to think that there is some truth in the information I saw, regarding the McCanns obtaining the files.

As for 'snowflake' she's best ignored in my opinion. She never adds anything constructive to the debate, all she does is rubbish other peoples posts, with her sarcastic remarks.

I wish for once, she would explain why the McCanns are innocent, I've asked her this question so many times, but I've never received an answer.

I wasn't sure what dear old Snowflake was trying to say. If you don't know whether something is true or not, it can be ignored - I think?

I certainly do my best to find out if something I've heard is true - if it involves people I know personally, it will be easier to establish the facts than with those I don't.

As regards Madeleine's room, I know it's been said before but it's strange that Kate has never been photographed (looking suitably pensive) in there. She can't claim that there are some things that are just too personal in view of the toe-curling comments in her book; she shows there that nothing is off-limits - other than the truth of what happened to her daughter of course.