Sky News Report

Skeletal remains are normally found buried in shallow graves; again the modus operandi of a killer who has not intended to murder their victim and has decided on a whim to dispose of the body. These shallow graves are usually to be found in out of the way places such as marshland, forests, wooded areas or any other area where the volume of human traffic passing through it is small.

So not usually next to a busy holiday resort.

But still plenty of clues.............

Once the body has reached the skeletal stage all that remains are bones, teeth and hair and from these DNA samples can be gathered in order to try and make identification. Likewise the teeth that are left can be used to check against corresponding dental records.

A skeleton will also be able to provide clues to the identity of its former self by displaying cracks and fractures in arms and legs that can be traced back to childhood injuries. Also these cracks and fractures can also be used in order to build up a detailed picture of how the victim died.

Holes to the skull can sometimes show that the victim has been either beaten around the head area, sustained a single heavy blow associated with blunt force trauma or has been shot in the head.

Depending on the nature of the hole, its size, shape and diameter, the pathologist, with the aid of a forensic anthropologist, will endeavour to make a positive identification and also determine how and when the victim met their untimely demise.

Panda wrote:

T4two wrote:

Panda wrote:

T4two wrote:

Panda wrote:malena, I'm trying to remember the name of the Home Secretary at the time who refused the Portugese 6 months Bank Statements of Gerry McCann saying it was too intrusive !!!  It was in the early days. Gerry McCann set up the Company to receive donations 12 days after Madeleine disappeared. How did he know she would not be found in the interim???

It was that paragon of virtue the alleged expenses fraudster Jacqui "Jackboots" Smith

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2084510/Jacqui-Smith-expenses-Just-did-away-Jackboots.html

That's her, thanks T4two, I remember the porno films, this is a bit more about her claim........

.Why were you paying your husband £40,000 a year, out of public funds, to be your ‘adviser’.
Pass.
How much did you claim on your expenses for two pay-per-view pornographic films watched by your husband while you were in London?
Pass.
How much did you claim for a solid stone sink from Habitat? What’s wrong with B&Q?
Pass.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2084510/Jacqui-Smith-expenses-Just-did-away-Jackboots.html#ixzz31A0JOGeh
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


The McCanns have been protected since day one and I would like to know why,but never will.

Stick around Panda - you might just be surprised one of these days...

The McCanns have been walking on water for the last 7 years T4two and even if a skeleton is found and proved to be Madeleine, anybody could have put it there will be the argument.

But, as Lioned points out in the recent post on this subject - skeletal remains can still reveal a lot about what happened, when it happened - and it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that by who could also be established in this case.

We're assuming we are going to find a body Lioned, are the McCanns distancing themselves from the Press now because they want the search to proceed knowing they are innocent, or are the McCanns hoping SY will keep them informed ?

I remember years ago T4two a body was found in the Lake District , it was a Woman who had been in the water for several years Her identity was traced and her Husband charged with her Murder, amazing !! It remains to be seen if anything is found and I think the Radar search has more to do with Oporto than SY whose 3 yr stint has been pathetic. and the Portugese have to use them to get the Radar.

What a big thing is being made of this dig. I wonder what has prompted them to dig. And I wonder if they are looking for articles or bits of clothing. Was the elusive pink blanket ever accounted for.

Remarkable how quick the Portuguese Air Force was summoned into the skies...does anyone really believe that Redwood marches into down & within hours the Portuguese military are ordered into action? I think we will learn in good time that the relationship between both police forces were not as strained as they are reported to be & this military operation was arranged many weeks/months ago

matthew wrote:Remarkable how quick the Portuguese Air Force was summoned into the skies...does anyone really believe that Redwood marches into down & within hours the Portuguese military are ordered into action? I think we will learn in good time that the relationship between both police forces were not as strained as they are reported to be & this military operation was arranged many weeks/months ago

Redwod is an administrator, nothing more. I still believe Portugal are very much in control of all of this and Redwood and hs merry men are there as observers, witnesses as such. They cannot come back six months from now and say things were not done correctly if they are party to whats happening now.

The news of the dig clears the haze of reporting over the past number of months. The undercurrents of Portugals incompetence, all of the dodgy men suspects, the PJ not co-operating. It came to a head with Kate's plea for dead or alive news and lo and behold the real news is the way has been cleared fr sites to be dug.

We still don't know what significant information prompted the re-opening in Portugal. We might be about to find out.

matthew wrote:Remarkable how quick the Portuguese Air Force was summoned into the skies...does anyone really believe that Redwood marches into down & within hours the Portuguese military are ordered into action? I think we will learn in good time that the relationship between both police forces were not as strained as they are reported to be & this military operation was arranged many weeks/months ago

Morning matthew, I saw the helicopter flying and it's being used by SY personnel to search and film certain areas. I hope you are right but it definitely was the Portugese who criticised SY for all the stupid Press Reports . The Portugese want this search done before Tourism kicks in and I think the 3 areas could certainly take only a few days. To be honest, unless the Portugese keep detailed arial photos of all the land in their Country, how are they supposed to know if anything has changed in 7 years.......or am I being thick?  

Panda wrote:

matthew wrote:Remarkable how quick the Portuguese Air Force was summoned into the skies...does anyone really believe that Redwood marches into down & within hours the Portuguese military are ordered into action? I think we will learn in good time that the relationship between both police forces were not as strained as they are reported to be & this military operation was arranged many weeks/months ago

Morning matthew, I saw the helicopter flying and it's being used by SY personnel to search and film certain areas. I hope you are right but it definitely was the Portugese who criticised SY for all the stupid Press Reports . The Portugese want this search done before Tourism kicks in and I think the 3 areas could certainly take only a few days. To be honest, unless the Portugese keep detailed arial photos of all the land in their Country, how are they supposed to know if anything has changed in 7 years.......or am I being thick?  

I would think Google Earth would be a valuable source of such photos and then there are the military surveillance satellite images.

mossman wrote:

matthew wrote:Remarkable how quick the Portuguese Air Force was summoned into the skies...does anyone really believe that Redwood marches into down & within hours the Portuguese military are ordered into action? I think we will learn in good time that the relationship between both police forces were not as strained as they are reported to be & this military operation was arranged many weeks/months ago

Redwod is an administrator, nothing more.  I still believe Portugal are very much in control of all of this and Redwood and hs merry men are there as observers, witnesses as such.  They cannot come back six months from now and say things were not done correctly if they are party to whats happening now.

The news of the dig clears the haze of reporting over the past number of months.  The undercurrents of Portugals incompetence, all of the dodgy men suspects, the PJ not co-operating.  It came to a head with Kate's plea for dead or alive news and lo and behold the real news is the way has been cleared fr sites to be dug.

We still don't know what significant information prompted the re-opening in Portugal.  We might be about to find out.

Morning mossman, I think this is a result of the OPORTO report. Apparently someone in the early days informed that Madeleine was buried but for some reason the Portugese Police ignored it and Oporto picked up on it while Redwood opted for the Pedophile theory

Once the Brit cops hit town it certainly all kicked off pdq.

One cannot acquire a military helicopter complete with pilot on the spur of the moment. It's not like ordering up a burger in a cafe. Resources (both human and otherwise) are expensive and finite and therefore have to be used efficiently and effectively. This takes a whole bunch of planning beforehand.
No mean feat considering the so-called 'bad relationship' between SY and the Portuguese authorities, eh?

I would think that, at the very least, Phase 1 of the current operation has been based on hard evidence and has been designed and scheduled well in advance with subsequent phases being contingent on the results of the first.
(Gerry McCann ain't the only one who can use a flip chart!)

jassi wrote:

Panda wrote:

matthew wrote:Remarkable how quick the Portuguese Air Force was summoned into the skies...does anyone really believe that Redwood marches into down & within hours the Portuguese military are ordered into action? I think we will learn in good time that the relationship between both police forces were not as strained as they are reported to be & this military operation was arranged many weeks/months ago

Morning matthew, I saw the helicopter flying and it's being used by SY personnel to search and film certain areas. I hope you are right but it definitely was the Portugese who criticised SY for all the stupid Press Reports . The Portugese want this search done before Tourism kicks in and I think the 3 areas could certainly take only a few days. To be honest, unless the Portugese keep detailed arial photos of all the land in their Country, how are they supposed to know if anything has changed in 7 years.......or am I being thick?  

I would think Google Earth would be a valuable source of such photos and then there are the military surveillance satellite images.

Morning jassi, I agree with you but it looks as though the areas chosen range from near the Ocean Club to the Apartments and the Beach ., all we can do is hope this latest attempt brings dividends.

regard interviewing anyone else , i think maybe just maybe the pj have interviewed everyone they need now , as for sy would they have to seek permissions to interview anyone that lives in the uk ? my hopes has always been that if portugal reopened the case it would be for a reason , didnt they say that many months years ago that it would only open if it could be solved , nobody knows the reason why they opened it what they have and im glad thats the case , during these visits from sy i think that sy are aware of what portugal have and this is the end game , do they have enough to take to trial ? i think thats long gone unless they reinterview all the persons that had contact with madeleine on her last day , oc workers tapas lot and the mcanns , it reminds me of sucking a gob stopper , ever changing colours , but all the abductors have gone from it and you are left with a small group , within that group lies the answers , end of gob stopper time

cass wrote:regard interviewing anyone else , i think maybe just maybe the pj have interviewed everyone they need now , as for sy would they have to seek permissions to interview anyone that lives in the uk ? my hopes has always been that if portugal reopened the case it would be for a reason , didnt they say that many months years ago that it would only open if it could be solved , nobody knows the reason why they opened it what they have and im glad thats the case , during these visits from sy i think that sy are aware of what portugal have and this is the end game , do they have enough to take to trial ? i think thats long gone unless they reinterview all the persons that had contact with madeleine on her last day , oc workers tapas lot and the mcanns , it reminds me of sucking a gob stopper , ever changing colours , but all the abductors have gone from it and you are left with a small group , within that group lies the answers , end of gob stopper time

Morning cass, when the Portugese shelved the case over 3 years ago it would not be reopened unless firm evidence had been found. Now unless SY have made fools of us all, I think it more likely that OPORTO picked up on the letter or phone call from someone who professed to know where Madeleine was buried, SY were only looking for Pedophies.  

Brought over from the Justice forum (poster:Sillywhiskers)

"Like it or not, SY apparently "believes" she died in the resort, which is why they are looking for burial sites.

Which in turn tends to support the work of Eddie and Grime.

Which in turn means that Madeleine HAD TO BE ALREADY DECEASED at Gerry's 9.30 check.

Which in turn means that the person identified as Gerry carrying the child thought to be Madeleine alongside that vacant land, takes on a whole new importance.

Which you don't "believe".

We all have to have our beliefs, mine is that the McCann supporters have gone past stupid and ended up at insane in their persistent denial that the truth is being dug up in front of our eyes.

BTW.....photos of a Portugese helicopter doing some low flying stunts across PDL are just that - staged photo op for the media.

They have ALREADY gone across with radar, which is why they know where to dig."

Wow Matthew, he seems to know what he is talking about.  

I just posted an article by Blacksmith ...worth a read , he too thinks this is endgame.

Ask a silly question , but how does the Radar work?

P.S. Normally Brunt appears about 9am with the latest news, no sign of him, does that mean the Press have gone home?

I wonder what is really going on.  Surely this won't end yet again in no further forward. Well you can't spin a digger digging up earth.  It's either digging or not digging.  It can be seen.  Whereas men lurking  in stairwells, behind doors, outside the apartment and so on well did they ever exist or not.  Not to mention the imminent arrests of three suspects or was it eight.

I think radar kind of works by spotting a mass in the earth that isn't earth.

MaryB wrote:I wonder what is really going on.  Surely this won't end yet again in no further forward. Well you can't spin a digger digging up earth.  It's either digging or not digging.  It can be seen.  Whereas men lurking  in stairwells, behind doors, outside the apartment and so on well did they ever exist or not.  Not to mention the imminent arrests of three suspects or was it eight.

I think radar kind of works by spotting a mass in the earth that isn't earth.  

Morning MaryB, so it,s hand held? Like those gismos use to search for coins ?

I can go along with just about all of Sillywhiskers' post, matthew.

But one thing puzzles:
Why, if it was just a photo-op stunt for the media, did they need a military helicopter?
This would involve the process of going through formal channels and getting the go-ahead from government departments.
Couldn't they have hired one from a private company and saved all that bother?

The daily mail had a close up of the Pt helicopter with two guys using their cameras & just lifted this from JH...technology keeps moving!

Lifted from JH forum & worth a look at PMac post to start the thread

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t6793p520-twitter-news-and-important-information-only-please#244149

It would be interesting to know what technique they are using.

There is a relatively new technique out called hyperspectral imaging:



"For the first five years or so a decaying body inhibits plant growth. "Initially it's a pretty toxic environment," for plants, said Kalacska, who, along with Pablo Arroyo and Tim Moore, manages the technological side of the research. Plants that grow over such recent graves don't reflect as much light in the visible and near infrared region, which scientists can detect using their cameras.
After five years, however, the plants growing over buried body suddenly reflect light instead of absorbing light. In fact, on-grave plants reflect more than twice the green light of off-grave plants. For a human eye detecting such tiny changes would be "very hard," said Kalacska, but the difference is obvious to the hyperspectral camera.
The increase in reflected light comes from an increase in chlorophyll, the pigment that plants use to convert light from the sun. After five years a decomposing body becomes fertilizer, supplying the growing plants with much needed nutrients like nitrogen and phosphorus. Bigger plants with bigger, healthier leaves reflect more light. "

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/tech-sees-dead-people/story?id=10389441

From Twitter:

Joana Morais ‏@xklamation 22m
PJ about to discard English Police strongest lead that Madeleine was abducted by a sex predator exclusive by @Marisa_TVI #mccann #madeleine

Not sure Panda. I wonder if there will be any press coverage of the dig. Maybe they won't be allowed to take pictures. Which would be fair enough I think.

Panda wrote:

MaryB wrote:I wonder what is really going on.  Surely this won't end yet again in no further forward. Well you can't spin a digger digging up earth.  It's either digging or not digging.  It can be seen.  Whereas men lurking  in stairwells, behind doors, outside the apartment and so on well did they ever exist or not.  Not to mention the imminent arrests of three suspects or was it eight.

I think radar kind of works by spotting a mass in the earth that isn't earth.  

Morning MaryB, so it,s hand held?  Like those gismos use to search for coins ?

The ones they have used on Time Team had wheels and looked similar to a lawmower, but I suppose it might depend on the terain.

almostgothic wrote:From Twitter:

Joana Morais ‏@xklamation 22m
PJ about to discard English Police strongest lead that Madeleine was abducted by a sex predator exclusive by @Marisa_TVI #mccann #madeleine

Amen to that, and I hope they say it loudly and clearly, for all to hear!