Why is Israel not allowed to defend itself

katertaif wrote:

malena stool wrote:Goodevening katertaif,

I've just been reading HuffPuff's reporting and comments of the events taking place in Israel. As you rightly point out the IDF are simply responding to rocket attacks from beyond their borders. The Israelis have learnt that turning the other cheek does nothing other than encourage those who wish them harm. While we can but sympathise with the deaths and horrific injuries inflicted on the women and children of both sides, the answer lies with the Palestinian leadership's allowance of Hammas to operate within their country's borders.

As Anna as pointed out, Hammas hide amongst civilians, behind women and children knowing the IDF will be blamed for any civilian deaths, as was shown this morning on Sky News, where Israeli airstrikes had taken out a Hammas leader who was hiding in a house surrounded by civilians, this isn't war, it is terrorism reported as if it were a military conflict.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/09/15-images-of-gaza-under-attack-as-israel-responds-to-hamas-rockets-_n_5570579.html

Good afternoon malena stool

Sympathy for the death of innocent Palestinian women and children is as usual not matched by any sympathy for Israelis. Instead as usual, the apologists are out in force denying that it is even happening. The brutal licentious IDF soldiery, attacking these poor Palestinians for no reason is as usual the cry. This in spite of reporters in Israel telling us that rockets are being fired into Israel daily. It still is not happening. Where these people keep their brains is a mystery.

Then we have Fatah joining in from Lebanon. Fatah are supposed to be moderates which shows two things, Firstly when you get right down to the bottom of Islam there is no such thing as a moderate. Secondly, they are still adhering to the commands of their paedophile prophet to kill Jews on sight. Part of it being their own blindness, in that Israel has no right to defend itself; at least not against Muslim attacks. Otherwise they will all join in. with money and aid if nothing else.

It bodes very badly when Iran gets a nuclear weapon and the means to deliver it. There is no doubt at all they are working towards this, they hardly bother to deny it any more. Once they have it, they will use it against Israel sooner or later, again there is no doubt at all of that. Israel will retaliate, indeed she must and God knows where that will lead.

Good evening katertaif.

The standard of reporting by almost all media channels has descended to the same biased depths as that of Huffington Post. It is almost as if the Israelis have been nominated as the aggressors by all newsagencies and outlets.

Now that Hammas rockets are beginning to strike Israel from the Lebanon I would assume there will have to be a ground assault and occupation of the Gazza strip and perhaps Lebanon also. The IDF have shown themselves to be a very capable and well armed force and I would imagine their intelligence service is aware of the location of most if not all of Hammas 'commanders' and concentrations.

As you say the worry is when Iran gets its hands on a nuclear weapon and the systems to deliver it and they will.... Israel may possibly pre-empt the strike if they see one developing. Hopefully it will not come to pass, but should the time come when Israel finds she has to defend herself or retaliate against any nuclear strike it may well depend on just how bad/good, US/Russian relationships are at the time as to the involvement of any other nation's forces.

AnnaEsse wrote:

Iris wrote:

malena stool wrote:The Palestinian leaders would never accept such decadence Iris...

If they took all the money they waste on rockets and bombs, and spent it on doing up the place, it would be looking like Dubai by now.  It's the most bankrolled place on the surface of the planet, and it's a midden.  And that is not the fault of the Israelis.

I heard an Israeli woman on Radio 4 this morning. She spoke about the rockets having been fired from Gaza for a long time and about how Israel protects its citizens. Her house has an alarm system that warns of approaching missiles and in case no one hears it, there is also a visual signal. There are plenty of shelters for Israeli citizens. In contrast, Hamas has not built shelters and, as you say, have spent a great deal of money on rockets and bombs.

I've seen a video this morning where a Hamas spokesman is encouraging people of Gaza to act as human shields. Video on this page.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/07/hamas-spokesman-encourages-gazans-to-serve-as-human-shields?utm_source=Jihad+Watch+Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=d44a032d80-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ffcbf57bbb-d44a032d80-123490937

I have family in Haifa, which is normally relatively safe, but has been hit before when rockets have been fired from the Lebanon. Even the family dog and cat know to get in the safe room when the sirens go off.

Iris wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

Iris wrote:

malena stool wrote:The Palestinian leaders would never accept such decadence Iris...

If they took all the money they waste on rockets and bombs, and spent it on doing up the place, it would be looking like Dubai by now.  It's the most bankrolled place on the surface of the planet, and it's a midden.  And that is not the fault of the Israelis.

I heard an Israeli woman on Radio 4 this morning. She spoke about the rockets having been fired from Gaza for a long time and about how Israel protects its citizens. Her house has an alarm system that warns of approaching missiles and in case no one hears it, there is also a visual signal. There are plenty of shelters for Israeli citizens. In contrast, Hamas has not built shelters and, as you say, have spent a great deal of money on rockets and bombs.

I've seen a video this morning where a Hamas spokesman is encouraging people of Gaza to act as human shields. Video on this page.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/07/hamas-spokesman-encourages-gazans-to-serve-as-human-shields?utm_source=Jihad+Watch+Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=d44a032d80-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ffcbf57bbb-d44a032d80-123490937

I have family in Haifa, which is normally relatively safe, but has been hit before when rockets have been fired from the Lebanon.  Even the family dog and cat know to get in the safe room when the sirens go off.  

Hope your family in Israel remain safe, Iris. Their cat and dog also.

Iris wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

Iris wrote:

malena stool wrote:The Palestinian leaders would never accept such decadence Iris...

If they took all the money they waste on rockets and bombs, and spent it on doing up the place, it would be looking like Dubai by now.  It's the most bankrolled place on the surface of the planet, and it's a midden.  And that is not the fault of the Israelis.

I heard an Israeli woman on Radio 4 this morning. She spoke about the rockets having been fired from Gaza for a long time and about how Israel protects its citizens. Her house has an alarm system that warns of approaching missiles and in case no one hears it, there is also a visual signal. There are plenty of shelters for Israeli citizens. In contrast, Hamas has not built shelters and, as you say, have spent a great deal of money on rockets and bombs.

I've seen a video this morning where a Hamas spokesman is encouraging people of Gaza to act as human shields. Video on this page.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/07/hamas-spokesman-encourages-gazans-to-serve-as-human-shields?utm_source=Jihad+Watch+Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=d44a032d80-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ffcbf57bbb-d44a032d80-123490937

I have family in Haifa, which is normally relatively safe, but has been hit before when rockets have been fired from the Lebanon.  Even the family dog and cat know to get in the safe room when the sirens go off.  

I'm pleased to hear that your family have a safe room, Iris, and hope they're alright.

Iris wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

Iris wrote:

malena stool wrote:The Palestinian leaders would never accept such decadence Iris...

If they took all the money they waste on rockets and bombs, and spent it on doing up the place, it would be looking like Dubai by now.  It's the most bankrolled place on the surface of the planet, and it's a midden.  And that is not the fault of the Israelis.

I heard an Israeli woman on Radio 4 this morning. She spoke about the rockets having been fired from Gaza for a long time and about how Israel protects its citizens. Her house has an alarm system that warns of approaching missiles and in case no one hears it, there is also a visual signal. There are plenty of shelters for Israeli citizens. In contrast, Hamas has not built shelters and, as you say, have spent a great deal of money on rockets and bombs.

I've seen a video this morning where a Hamas spokesman is encouraging people of Gaza to act as human shields. Video on this page.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/07/hamas-spokesman-encourages-gazans-to-serve-as-human-shields?utm_source=Jihad+Watch+Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=d44a032d80-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ffcbf57bbb-d44a032d80-123490937

I have family in Haifa, which is normally relatively safe, but has been hit before when rockets have been fired from the Lebanon.  Even the family dog and cat know to get in the safe room when the sirens go off.  

Hope your family stay safe, Iris x

malena stool wrote:

katertaif wrote:

malena stool wrote:Goodevening katertaif,

I've just been reading HuffPuff's reporting and comments of the events taking place in Israel. As you rightly point out the IDF are simply responding to rocket attacks from beyond their borders. The Israelis have learnt that turning the other cheek does nothing other than encourage those who wish them harm. While we can but sympathise with the deaths and horrific injuries inflicted on the women and children of both sides, the answer lies with the Palestinian leadership's allowance of Hammas to operate within their country's borders.

As Anna as pointed out, Hammas hide amongst civilians, behind women and children knowing the IDF will be blamed for any civilian deaths, as was shown this morning on Sky News, where Israeli airstrikes had taken out a Hammas leader who was hiding in a house surrounded by civilians, this isn't war, it is terrorism reported as if it were a military conflict.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/09/15-images-of-gaza-under-attack-as-israel-responds-to-hamas-rockets-_n_5570579.html

Good afternoon malena stool

Sympathy for the death of innocent Palestinian women and children is as usual not matched by any sympathy for Israelis. Instead as usual, the apologists are out in force denying that it is even happening. The brutal licentious IDF soldiery, attacking these poor Palestinians for no reason is as usual the cry. This in spite of reporters in Israel telling us that rockets are being fired into Israel daily. It still is not happening. Where these people keep their brains is a mystery.

Then we have Fatah joining in from Lebanon. Fatah are supposed to be moderates which shows two things, Firstly when you get right down to the bottom of Islam there is no such thing as a moderate. Secondly, they are still adhering to the commands of their paedophile prophet to kill Jews on sight. Part of it being their own blindness, in that Israel has no right to defend itself; at least not against Muslim attacks. Otherwise they will all join in. with money and aid if nothing else.

It bodes very badly when Iran gets a nuclear weapon and the means to deliver it. There is no doubt at all they are working towards this, they hardly bother to deny it any more. Once they have it, they will use it against Israel sooner or later, again there is no doubt at all of that. Israel will retaliate, indeed she must and God knows where that will lead.

Good evening katertaif.

The standard of reporting by almost all media channels has descended to the same biased depths as that of Huffington Post. It is almost as if the Israelis have been nominated as the aggressors by all newsagencies and outlets.

Now that Hammas rockets are beginning to strike Israel from the Lebanon I would assume there will have to be a ground assault and occupation of the Gazza strip and perhaps Lebanon also. The IDF have shown themselves to be a very capable and well armed force and I would imagine their intelligence service is aware of the location of most if not all of Hammas 'commanders' and concentrations.  

As you say the worry is when Iran gets its hands on a nuclear weapon and the systems to deliver it and they will.... Israel may possibly pre-empt the strike if they see one developing. Hopefully it will not come to pass, but should the time come when Israel finds she has to defend herself or retaliate against any nuclear strike it may well depend on just how bad/good, US/Russian relationships are at the time as to the involvement of any other nation's forces.

I watched a Palestinian spokeswoman on Sky news this afternoon, I didn't catch her name not that it makes any difference. It's a clear cut case of: Ru1e 1, Israel is in the wrong: Rule 2, when Israel is right, read rule 1. She was simply denying that the Palestinians have any blame attached at all. Oh yes, they are firing rockets at Israel, but that doesn't give the IDF any right to retaliate. The leaders of Fatah were saying the same thing. Yes, we are attacking Israel, as we have every right to do but That doesn't give them the right to shoot back.

Faced with this kind of idiotic logic, there can never be any peace. All Israel can hope to do is mount a ground invasion, destroy as many launch sites and hidey holes as they can, then when the international screams of outrage at this Israeli naked aggression reach fever pitch, pull out and wait for the whole depressing business to start again. As you say, it may yet come down to the state of international relations between the countries armed with nuclear weapons. bearing in mind that Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, and their ilk are not above staging an incident, and trying to make it look like Israel did it. remember in a nuclear holocaust they are all going to paradise as martyrs. We are not.

katertaif wrote:

malena stool wrote:

katertaif wrote:

malena stool wrote:Goodevening katertaif,

I've just been reading HuffPuff's reporting and comments of the events taking place in Israel. As you rightly point out the IDF are simply responding to rocket attacks from beyond their borders. The Israelis have learnt that turning the other cheek does nothing other than encourage those who wish them harm. While we can but sympathise with the deaths and horrific injuries inflicted on the women and children of both sides, the answer lies with the Palestinian leadership's allowance of Hammas to operate within their country's borders.

As Anna as pointed out, Hammas hide amongst civilians, behind women and children knowing the IDF will be blamed for any civilian deaths, as was shown this morning on Sky News, where Israeli airstrikes had taken out a Hammas leader who was hiding in a house surrounded by civilians, this isn't war, it is terrorism reported as if it were a military conflict.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/09/15-images-of-gaza-under-attack-as-israel-responds-to-hamas-rockets-_n_5570579.html

Good afternoon malena stool

Sympathy for the death of innocent Palestinian women and children is as usual not matched by any sympathy for Israelis. Instead as usual, the apologists are out in force denying that it is even happening. The brutal licentious IDF soldiery, attacking these poor Palestinians for no reason is as usual the cry. This in spite of reporters in Israel telling us that rockets are being fired into Israel daily. It still is not happening. Where these people keep their brains is a mystery.

Then we have Fatah joining in from Lebanon. Fatah are supposed to be moderates which shows two things, Firstly when you get right down to the bottom of Islam there is no such thing as a moderate. Secondly, they are still adhering to the commands of their paedophile prophet to kill Jews on sight. Part of it being their own blindness, in that Israel has no right to defend itself; at least not against Muslim attacks. Otherwise they will all join in. with money and aid if nothing else.

It bodes very badly when Iran gets a nuclear weapon and the means to deliver it. There is no doubt at all they are working towards this, they hardly bother to deny it any more. Once they have it, they will use it against Israel sooner or later, again there is no doubt at all of that. Israel will retaliate, indeed she must and God knows where that will lead.

Good evening katertaif.

The standard of reporting by almost all media channels has descended to the same biased depths as that of Huffington Post. It is almost as if the Israelis have been nominated as the aggressors by all newsagencies and outlets.

Now that Hammas rockets are beginning to strike Israel from the Lebanon I would assume there will have to be a ground assault and occupation of the Gazza strip and perhaps Lebanon also. The IDF have shown themselves to be a very capable and well armed force and I would imagine their intelligence service is aware of the location of most if not all of Hammas 'commanders' and concentrations.  

As you say the worry is when Iran gets its hands on a nuclear weapon and the systems to deliver it and they will.... Israel may possibly pre-empt the strike if they see one developing. Hopefully it will not come to pass, but should the time come when Israel finds she has to defend herself or retaliate against any nuclear strike it may well depend on just how bad/good, US/Russian relationships are at the time as to the involvement of any other nation's forces.

I watched a Palestinian spokeswoman on Sky news this afternoon, I didn't catch her name not that it makes any difference. It's a clear cut case of: Ru1e 1, Israel is  in the wrong: Rule 2, when Israel is right, read rule 1. She was simply denying that the Palestinians have any blame attached at all. Oh yes, they are firing rockets at Israel, but that doesn't  give the IDF any right to retaliate. The leaders of Fatah were saying the same thing. Yes, we are attacking Israel, as we have every right to do but That doesn't give them the right to shoot back.

Faced with this kind of idiotic logic, there can never be any peace. All Israel can hope to do is mount a ground invasion, destroy as many launch sites and hidey holes as they can, then when the international screams of outrage at this Israeli naked aggression reach fever pitch, pull out and wait for the whole depressing business to start again. As you say, it may yet come down to the state of international relations between the countries armed with nuclear weapons. bearing in mind that Hamas, Fatah, Hezbollah, and their ilk are not above staging an incident, and trying to make it look like Israel did it. remember in a nuclear holocaust they are all going to paradise as martyrs. We are not.

I cannot nor am I likely ever to understand why our press/news media are carrying the Hammas version of events as being gospel truths...
Even more incredible was the apparition of Blair on the early evening news commenting quite knowledgeably as befitting a well informed and respected politician, on the state of play as the Middle East envoy...

This is the first time to my knowledge he has ever made an appearance offering explanation/comments of the tragedies being heaped onb Israeli and Palestinian civilians. What he actually said I have no idea, I can't bear listening to the despicable creature waffle on.

Thank God I'm not likely to become a martyr, I couldn't face eternity listening to illogical drivel and customised wailing five times a day...

fuzeta wrote:What terrifies me is that if they have their way we will all be living in a midden soon.  Parts of  the UK are looking like it already

Quite right fuzeta. We have gone from a first world country to a definite second world country in a bare 50 years, and already are bordering on third world. By some definitions we are there already

On the other hand look how multicultural and integrated we are. I think It more than a coincidence that the two go hand in hand.

malena stool wrote:

Iris wrote:

malena stool wrote:The Palestinian leaders would never accept such decadence Iris...

If they took all the money they waste on rockets and bombs, and spent it on doing up the place, it would be looking like Dubai by now.  It's the most bankrolled place on the surface of the planet, and it's a midden.  And that is not the fault of the Israelis.

Absolutely not... It's the legacy of an entire people who are locked in a time capsule 14 centuries old.

Good afternoon malena stool

If the situation in Israel and Gaza, were not so serious you would have to laugh/the UN (unqualified Nincompoops) have expressed concern at the Israeli attacks on Gaza. They may not be legal say this bunch of featherbrained clowns.

From that, are we then to accept, and agree with the UN that the daily rocket attacks on Israel are legal? No one seems to be expressing concern over them. How do these people get their jobs? Who appoints them? Who decides what enormous salaries and expense accounts they get to utter such tripe?

As my late Father used to say and I quote "I wouldn't pay them in washers" , Where is Ban Ki Moon in all this? Why is he not calling on Hamas, Fatah and their ilk to stop firing rockets at Israel? Or would that offend the Muslim faction to much, and cause them to withhold monetary support?

The Palestinians say they only want a home of their own. That may be true, but they want ALL of the territory they still call Palestine. Look at any Muslim atlas. You won't find Israel but Palestine is there. What they really mean is they are denying Jews a home of their own. f course they don't advertise that part of it."

Israel did not have a Country until , either the United Nations or some other Organisation , because of the Holocaust , decided to give the Jews
their own Country . It was bound to fail and always will . Whereas the Jews prospered with aid from the U.S. and their own diligence, Palestine became poorer, argued that Israel had poached more of their land , closed a route from Palestine to Syria . I think the blame lies solely with the Idiots who gave away part of Palestine and there will always be conflict between the two Countries.

This is the history of Israel, looks if the Brits gave Israel the land in 1948.....I just wonder what right they had to do that, this is an extract from Wikipediaa

well as that of the Jews in the Land of Israel. The area of modern Israel is small, about the size of Wales or half the size of Costa Rica, and is located roughly on the site of the ancient kingdoms of Israel and Judah except that these ancient kingdoms also included what is now the West Bank. It is the birthplace of the Hebrew language spoken in Israel, and of Judaism and Christianity. It contains sites sacred to Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Druze and Bahá'í Faith.

Although coming under the sway of various empires and home to a variety of ethnicities, the area of ancient Israel was predominantly Jewish until the Jewish–Roman wars after which Jews became a minority in most regions, except Galilee. The area became increasingly Christian after the 3rd century and then largely Muslim from the 7th century conquest until well past the middle of the 20th century. It was a focal point of conflict between Christianity and Islam between 1096 and 1291, and from the end of the Crusades until the British conquest in 1917 was part of the Syrian province of first the Mamluk Sultanate of Egypt and then (from 1517) the Ottoman Empire.

In the late-19th century, persecution of Jews, particularly in Europe, led to the creation of the Zionist movement. Following the British conquest of Syria, the Balfour Declaration in World War I and the formation of the Mandate of Palestine, Aliyah (Jewish immigration to the Land of Israel) increased and gave rise to Arab–Jewish tensions, and a collision of the Arab and Jewish nationalist movements. Israeli independence in 1948 was marked by massive migration of Jews from both Europe and the Muslim countries to Israel, and of Arabs from Israel leading to the extensive Arab–Israeli conflict.[1] About 42% of the world's Jews live in Israel today.

Since about 1970, the United States has become the principal ally of Israel. In 1979 an uneasy Egypt–Israel Peace Treaty was signed, based on the Camp David Accords. In 1993 Israel signed Oslo I Accord with the Palestine Liberation Organization and in 1994 Israel–Jordan Treaty of Peace was signed. Despite efforts to establish peace between Israel and Palestinians, many of whom live in Israel or in Israeli-occupied territories, the conflict continues to play a major role in Israeli and international political, social and economic life.

The economy of Israel was initially primarily socialist and the country dominated by social democratic parties until the 1970s. Since then the Israeli economy has gradually moved to capitalism and a free market economy, partially retaining the social welfare system.

Panda wrote:The Palestinians say they only want a home of their own. That may be true, but they want ALL of the territory they still call Palestine. Look at any Muslim atlas. You won't find Israel but Palestine is there. What they really mean is they are denying Jews a home of their own. f course they don't advertise that part of it."

Israel did not have a Country until , either the United Nations or some other Organisation , because of the Holocaust , decided to give the Jews
their own Country . It was bound to fail and always will . Whereas the Jews prospered with aid from the U.S. and their own diligence, Palestine became poorer, argued that Israel had poached more of their land , closed a route from Palestine to Syria . I think the blame lies solely with the Idiots who gave away part of Palestine and there will always be conflict between the two Countries.

Good afternoon panda

It wasn't because of the holocaust. It was because of the constant faction fighting in what was then Palestine tat the UN decided to split the place up, originally a little over half was decided would be occupied by the Jewish population. The British had the mandate at the time and just as we did in Iraq, and Pakistan we c-----d it up.

British forces were turning Jewish settlers away sometimes at bayonet point. This was supposed to even up the numbers. When we left Palestine, everyone knew open hostility would break out into open war. The British left most of the infrastructure in Muslim hands. It is a matter of history that after the 1947 - 1949 war. most of the infrastructure was in Jewish hands, and the little over half of the land was now almost 85%. in Israeli hands

Since the, the Jews have dealt on the whole very fairly with Palestinians of course their are rogue settlers, and the Knesset outlaws them and bulldozers them. With all the money donated to them from one source or another, the Palestinian leaders spend a sizeable proportion on weaponry, mainly rockets. Israel have developed the country and many Palestinians rely on Israel for work.

All that bye the bye, the Muslim countries are dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and the restoration of Palestine. They know they are going to lose this conflict as they have lost all others. the leaders of Hamas are cynically trading the lives of their people in exchange for international sympathy. This present part of the never ending war, being brought about because Israel was starting to gain support, and we can't have that can we?

There may be another conventional conflict between the Muslim states and Israel before Iran gets a nuclear weapon. That will be a whole new and vastly more dangerous event.

katertaif wrote:

Panda wrote:The Palestinians say they only want a home of their own. That may be true, but they want ALL of the territory they still call Palestine. Look at any Muslim atlas. You won't find Israel but Palestine is there. What they really mean is they are denying Jews a home of their own. f course they don't advertise that part of it."

Israel did not have a Country until , either the United Nations or some other Organisation , because of the Holocaust , decided to give the Jews
their own Country . It was bound to fail and always will . Whereas the Jews prospered with aid from the U.S. and their own diligence, Palestine became poorer, argued that Israel had poached more of their land , closed a route from Palestine to Syria . I think the blame lies solely with the Idiots who gave away part of Palestine and there will always be conflict between the two Countries.

Good afternoon panda

It wasn't because of the holocaust. It was because of the constant faction fighting in what was then Palestine tat the UN decided to split the place up, originally a little over half was decided would be occupied by the Jewish population. The British had the mandate at the time and just as we did in Iraq, and Pakistan we c-----d it up.

British forces were turning Jewish settlers away sometimes at bayonet point. This was supposed to even up the numbers. When we left Palestine, everyone knew open hostility would break out into open war. The British left most of the infrastructure in Muslim hands. It is a matter of history that after the 1947 - 1949 war. most of the infrastructure was in Jewish hands, and the little over half of the land was now almost 85%. in Israeli hands

Since the, the Jews have dealt on the whole very fairly with Palestinians of course their are rogue settlers, and the Knesset outlaws them and bulldozers them. With all the money donated to them from one source or another, the Palestinian leaders spend a sizeable proportion on weaponry, mainly rockets. Israel have developed the country and many Palestinians rely on Israel for work.

All that bye the bye, the Muslim countries are dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and the restoration of Palestine. They know they are going to lose this conflict as they have lost all others. the leaders of Hamas are cynically trading the lives of their people in exchange for international sympathy. This present part of the never ending war, being brought about because Israel was starting to gain support, and we can't have that can we?

There may be another conventional conflict between the Muslim states and Israel before Iran gets a nuclear weapon. That will be a whole new and vastly more dangerous event.

Hi katerfait, I do remember that there was sympathy for the Jews because of the Holocaust, the War ended in 1945 and when the Brits went into the Concentration camps to liberate Prisoners, the World was appalled at what was found. That was when negotiations started and in 1948 Israel was born. the US relies on Israel to be their eyes and ears which is why they helped with Finance , probably arms as well.. This latest spat started because of the murdered Boy. It was said that the Palestinian Leader, Arafat was poisoned , I wouldn't be surprised , and I have more sympathy with the Palestinians than the Isrealies who poached some more land to build more homes and if true that they closed to Palestine the trade route they used to use to Saudi Arabia that's a mean thing to do. There will never be peace between these two Countries but no one wants to mediate. the Middle East is in turmoil .

Israel has not "poached" any land, they left Gaza in 2008. They have not closed any "trade routes" and Palestine isn't a country, and never was.

Iris wrote:Israel has not "poached" any land, they left Gaza in 2008.  They have not closed any "trade routes" and Palestine isn't a country, and never was.

You know for certain do you Iris?? You must also know the latest attack on Palestine was where the Palestinian Chief of Police lives, 18 people killed and the population are on the move in Gaza , trying to escape. It's like David and Goliath and Netinyahou has promised more attacks.

Panda wrote:

Iris wrote:Israel has not "poached" any land, they left Gaza in 2008.  They have not closed any "trade routes" and Palestine isn't a country, and never was.

You know for certain do you Iris?? You must also know the latest attack on Palestine was where the Palestinian Chief of Police lives, 18 people killed and the population are on the move in Gaza , trying to escape. It's like David and Goliath  and Netinyahou has promised more attacks.

Yes, I know this for certain. Happy now?

Maybe the reason that innocent Palestinians are dying is because Hamas have 10,000 rockets but no shelters for their population. Israel have shelters for all of their population, no person is more than 3 minutes away from a shelter, I also know that for certain. I don't see that Netinyahou has been left with much choice.

Whatever Iris, innocent families are being killed and Israel has no intention of letting up ,with superior equipment and there will be another Syria , refugee camps . I don't know how you can say you know Israel has poached more land without saying how, but I am not gong to pursue the matter.

BTW Palestine was part of the British India Empire and in 1948 the U.K Government gave the Country independence, Palestine was recorded by the UN as a Country , that year, minus one eight of the Country breaking away to become Bangladesh.

Hi Panda, Palestine was mandated by Britain following WW1. It was not part of the Brtiish Empire.

Panda wrote:Whatever Iris, innocent families are being killed and Israel has no intention of letting up ,with superior equipment and there will be another Syria , refugee camps . I don't know how you can say you know Israel has poached more land without saying how, but I am not gong to pursue the matter.

BTW Palestine was part of the British India Empire and in 1948 the U.K Government gave the Country independence, Palestine was recorded by the UN as a Country , that year, minus one eight of the Country breaking away to become Bangladesh.

That's right, Israel will never let up so long as innocent Israeli families are being targetted by Russian built Katyusha rockets, or their soldiers or teenagers kidnapped and butchered for no reason. Did you really expect them to? And no, Palestine has never, ever been recorded as a country, not in the past, and not now. It was also never part of the British Empire.

You're right, it's pointless debating with someone so obviously bigotted and painfully uneducated on the facts of this issue.

Panda wrote:Whatever Iris, innocent families are being killed and Israel has no intention of letting up ,with superior equipment and there will be another Syria , refugee camps . I don't know how you can say you know Israel has poached more land without saying how, but I am not gong to pursue the matter.

BTW Palestine was part of the British India Empire and in 1948 the U.K Government gave the Country independence, Palestine was recorded by the UN as a Country , that year, minus one eight of the Country breaking away to become Bangladesh.

Good evening Panda

Of course any right thinking person must have sympathy for he innocent Palestinians being killed, but Israel is not forcing Hamas, or indeed anyone else to fire rockets into Israel daily. Rockets becoming ever more destructive, sophisticated in design and with a longer range. The Iron Dome in use by Israel doesn't get them all by any means.

This happens every couple of years Panda. Yes I realise Israel kills more Palestinians than they kill Israelis but that isn't for want of trying. They are dedicated to the destruction of Israel. In the meantime they are cynically and deliberately putting launch sites in or near schools, hospitals and areas of high population. You're right of course the Palestinians don't have air raid shelters. The reason is that their leaders spend the money on Offence, rather than Defence. They are disgustingly trading the lives of their people in return for international sympathy. people are starting to see through them now though, because this is by no means the first time they've done it.

I sincerely believe Israel does all It can to minimise casualties, but the usual cease fire with the stone certainty of it all starting again as soon as Hamas replenishes it's weapons is not the answer. When they recognise Israel has he right to exist, that will be best all round. for innocents on both sides.

Evening katertaif, this latest crisis was the result of the teenager killed in Israel, but the main problem has been all along the British Government giving a slice of Palestine to the Jews to create Israel . We both know also that the U.S. helped arm Israel and lend money to build the Country , in return for which Israel would be the eyes and ears for the U.S.A. in the Middle East. Apparently Israeli troops have crossed the border into Pakistan , the UN have as much power as a 3 amp fuse.

Anyway, I don't want to discuss it any more I don't think like the rest of you on this matter , all I see is the death and destruction of the innocents.

Where is your PROOF that "Israeli troops have crossed the border into Pakistan"?

There was not ONE teenager killed ON ISRAELI TERRITORY by Hamas, but THREE. And two more before that, and a young conscript taken hostage before that,

The US also help arm Hamas.

And why were the British wrong to give the Jews their own country? I would be most interested in seeing your logic for that one.

Panda wrote:Evening katertaif, this latest crisis was the result of the teenager killed in Israel, but the main  problem has been all along the British Government giving a slice of Palestine to the Jews to create Israel . We both know also that the U.S. helped arm Israel and lend money to build the Country , in return for which Israel would be the eyes and ears for the U.S.A. in the  Middle East. Apparently Israeli troops have crossed the border into Pakistan , the UN have as much power as a 3 amp fuse.

Anyway, I don't want to discuss it any more I don't think like the rest of you on this matter , all I see is the death and destruction of the innocents.

The Israelis are defending themselves Panda...

We can argue til the cows come home on this topic and I just said to katertaif that i don't want to post on this topic any more because i don't think like the majority of you so you all carry on with your opinions O.K.?