LATEST NEWS ON DEWANI MURDER

AnnaEsse wrote:

He did a good one a number of years ago, for which I admired him. A celeb (let's just call her that!) had a relationship with a man who basically didn't have the proverbial pot to piss in. When they split up, the man's story about their relationship appeared in a tabloid, for which Max Clifford had brokered a substantial fee. The story was actually written by the celeb, who wanted her ex-partner to make some money and MC was the go-between!

I can believe it. now l'm left wondering who it was....

margaret wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

She didn't come with the expected level of 'gifts,' from her family which would have helped Dewani's business out of financial difficulties?

I think Annis dad already said there was no dowry.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333717/Anni-Dewani-tears-honeymoon-flight-shot-dead-says-father.html

He said the marriage between Anni and Mr Dewani was not arranged and her family had not paid a dowry to the Dewani family during the lavish wedding held in Mumbai in September, which is understood to have cost in the region of £200,000.

Mr Hindocha said: ‘We are part of the Lohana caste and dowries do not exist in our culture. If I want to give him something it is up to me.’

The sentence I have highlighted in red suggests to me that something was given.

AnnaEsse wrote:

Popcorn wrote:

docmac wrote:

T4two wrote:

Angelique wrote:I have also asked this before - if Shrien didn't want to marry Anni - why did he go ahead. Is he suffering from some malady perhaps.

Why, if the supposed "kidnapping" wasn't arranged - were these other people involved. If it wasn't true they would be superfluous. The taxi driver could have done the kidnapping himself.

Angelique

It doesn't add up, because if the intention had been to murder the wife, there is no point in staging an abduction for her benefit or of the participants. Perhaps the wife was supposed to be abducted for ransom and it all went horribly wrong?

It adds up to me. Newlywed on honeymoon murders his beautiful bride? No way! Victim of a hijacking in crime-ridden South Africa? Of course, what else could it be? And those coppers are so busy sorting out other crimes it'll take them MONTHS to get to this one...

But if no ransom is involved, we're left with the question of why he would want to murder his beautiful bride only days after he married her?

She didn't come with the expected level of 'gifts,' from her family which would have helped Dewani's business out of financial difficulties?

So, disappointed at having married but not received the expected level of gifts from the bride's family, he takes her to South Africa on honeymoon. When he gets there he says to a taxi driver (who he presumably has never met before in his life?) that he wants someone killing. The taxi driver immediately agrees to arrange it and hires a couple of people he knows who then hijack the cab at a pre-arranged spot and carry out the killing. Sounds reasonable?

margaret wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

She didn't come with the expected level of 'gifts,' from her family which would have helped Dewani's business out of financial difficulties?

I think Annis dad already said there was no dowry.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1333717/Anni-Dewani-tears-honeymoon-flight-shot-dead-says-father.html

He said the marriage between Anni and Mr Dewani was not arranged and her family had not paid a dowry to the Dewani family during the lavish wedding held in Mumbai in September, which is understood to have cost in the region of £200,000.

Mr Hindocha said: ‘We are part of the Lohana caste and dowries do not exist in our culture. If I want to give him something it is up to me.’

The Sikh religion was intended not to have castes, but of course, they still exist as seen by that statement.

I always though Max Clifford was very shrewd, so his emphatic protestations of his client's innocence ar perplexing. How could he know either way? And if facts emerge which prove that Shrien Dewani has been lying, then Max is going to have egg on his face.

I know it's been discussed before, re dear Clarence, but what is the position, legally, of these puffed up PR spokesmen? It's not like a family member who's kneejerk reaction would be protect their family. And there's no legal professional privilege. They don't seem to be accountable to anyone for their actions.

T4two wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

Popcorn wrote:

docmac wrote:

T4two wrote:

It doesn't add up, because if the intention had been to murder the wife, there is no point in staging an abduction for her benefit or of the participants. Perhaps the wife was supposed to be abducted for ransom and it all went horribly wrong?

It adds up to me. Newlywed on honeymoon murders his beautiful bride? No way! Victim of a hijacking in crime-ridden South Africa? Of course, what else could it be? And those coppers are so busy sorting out other crimes it'll take them MONTHS to get to this one...

But if no ransom is involved, we're left with the question of why he would want to murder his beautiful bride only days after he married her?

She didn't come with the expected level of 'gifts,' from her family which would have helped Dewani's business out of financial difficulties?

So, disappointed at having married but not received the expected level of gifts from the bride's family, he takes her to South Africa on honeymoon. When he gets there he says to a taxi driver (who he presumably has never met before in his life?) that he wants someone killing. The taxi driver immediately agrees to arrange it and hires a couple of people he knows who then hijack the cab at a pre-arranged spot and carry out the killing. Sounds reasonable?

I think the arrangements all sound as though it happened so quickly, it might be a bit dodgy. However, there are annually many women being killed in India because her in-laws are not happy with 'gifts,' received. Many of these women die as a result of 'accidents,' with cooking stoves.

T4two wrote:

So, disappointed at having married but not received the expected level of gifts from the bride's family, he takes her to South Africa on honeymoon. When he gets there he says to a taxi driver (who he presumably has never met before in his life?) that he wants someone killing. The taxi driver immediately agrees to arrange it and hires a couple of people he knows who then hijack the cab at a pre-arranged spot and carry out the killing. Sounds reasonable?

Nope, not a bit.

I think I read yesterday that the forensics experts had suggested the gun may have gone off accidentally whilst they were arguing about raping her.

Possibly a kidnap for random gone wrong?

I'm still not seeing a motive for pre-meditated murder here.

Maybe Shrien is in fact GAY. We can speculate but the motive could be - well any number of things. Money seems the likeliest.

Wallflower wrote:I always though Max Clifford was very shrewd, so his emphatic protestations of his client's innocence ar perplexing. How could he know either way? And if facts emerge which prove that Shrien Dewani has been lying, then Max is going to have egg on his face.

I know it's been discussed before, re dear Clarence, but what is the position, legally, of these puffed up PR spokesmen? It's not like a family member who's kneejerk reaction would be protect their family. And there's no legal professional privilege. They don't seem to be accountable to anyone for their actions.

Now that is a very good point and I would really appreciate it if someone could come up with an answer. It seems to me that having these self-styled PR gurus involved in matters where a criminal investigation is concerned and free to put out any kind of information irrespective of whether it is true or false or interfering and misleading that investigation is so patently wrong that it has to be stopped.

Just listend to Max Clifford speaking on the News, Im shocked that Clifford could be taken in so easly, or has he seen how Mitchell has had such alot of media attention from the McCann case that he though I would like some of that, I had to smile to myself when the news reader said that a close family member said this charge "is ludicrous"

AnnaEsse wrote:

T4two wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

Popcorn wrote:

docmac wrote:

It adds up to me. Newlywed on honeymoon murders his beautiful bride? No way! Victim of a hijacking in crime-ridden South Africa? Of course, what else could it be? And those coppers are so busy sorting out other crimes it'll take them MONTHS to get to this one...

But if no ransom is involved, we're left with the question of why he would want to murder his beautiful bride only days after he married her?

She didn't come with the expected level of 'gifts,' from her family which would have helped Dewani's business out of financial difficulties?

So, disappointed at having married but not received the expected level of gifts from the bride's family, he takes her to South Africa on honeymoon. When he gets there he says to a taxi driver (who he presumably has never met before in his life?) that he wants someone killing. The taxi driver immediately agrees to arrange it and hires a couple of people he knows who then hijack the cab at a pre-arranged spot and carry out the killing. Sounds reasonable?

I think the arrangements all sound as though it happened so quickly, it might be a bit dodgy. However, there are annually many women being killed in India because her in-laws are not happy with 'gifts,' received. Many of these women die as a result of 'accidents,' with cooking stoves.

Yes, I understand that this is a possibility. Cab drivers are usually the first real contact one has with a country when one arrives by plane. I've always chatted to cab drivers and quizzed them about the place , things to see, best places to eat etc. and always found them delighted to help, but I cannot imagine what reaction I would have got if I'd asked about getting rid of someone. Bit risky IMO.

T4two wrote:
So, disappointed at having married but not received the expected level of gifts from the bride's family, he takes her to South Africa on honeymoon. When he gets there he says to a taxi driver (who he presumably has never met before in his life?) that he wants someone killing. The taxi driver immediately agrees to arrange it and hires a couple of people he knows who then hijack the cab at a pre-arranged spot and carry out the killing. Sounds reasonable?

Nope. That's what l said, and the first person he meets (the taxi driver) can get a murderer for him!!

Regardless it is very strange, the husband has acted the same way as the infamous couple that led us all here....

margaret wrote:

T4two wrote:
So, disappointed at having married but not received the expected level of gifts from the bride's family, he takes her to South Africa on honeymoon. When he gets there he says to a taxi driver (who he presumably has never met before in his life?) that he wants someone killing. The taxi driver immediately agrees to arrange it and hires a couple of people he knows who then hijack the cab at a pre-arranged spot and carry out the killing. Sounds reasonable?

Nope. That's what l said, and the first person he meets (the taxi driver) can get a murderer for him!!

Regardless it is very strange, the husband has acted the same way as the infamous coupe that led us all here....

It is indeed, and it is that behaviour that made me very sceptical of his story at first. Nevertheless, I suppose innocent as well as guilty people are capable of seeing the benefits reaped by the McCanns of employing a PR guru and getting the press 'onside'. I remain very much in two minds about this case. I wonder if the SA police have anything more concrete than just the word of the driver.

buildersbum wrote:Just listend to Max Clifford speaking on the News, Im shocked that Clifford could be taken in so easly, or has he seen how Mitchell has had such alot of media attention from the McCann case that he though I would like some of that, I had to smile to myself when the news reader said that a close family member said this charge "is ludicrous"

I could smell a rat at that point too. But I was most intrigued when I heard they were getting hold of PREVIOUS TELPHONE RECORDS .......... Mmmmm ....... Let's see how quickly the police are given these in comparison to the McCann case.

We may be able to question why we can send phone records to South Africa ...... but not Portugal.

Midas wrote:

buildersbum wrote:Just listend to Max Clifford speaking on the News, Im shocked that Clifford could be taken in so easly, or has he seen how Mitchell has had such alot of media attention from the McCann case that he though I would like some of that, I had to smile to myself when the news reader said that a close family member said this charge "is ludicrous"

I could smell a rat at that point too. But I was most intrigued when I heard they were getting hold of PREVIOUS TELPHONE RECORDS .......... Mmmmm ....... Let's see how quickly the police are given these in comparison to the McCann case.

We may be able to question why we can send phone records to South Africa ...... but not Portugal.

Yes and let us hope that the South African prosecutor does not rule all phone records dating from before the crime as inadmissible as his Portuguese counterpart did.

T4two wrote:

Midas wrote:

buildersbum wrote:Just listend to Max Clifford speaking on the News, Im shocked that Clifford could be taken in so easly, or has he seen how Mitchell has had such alot of media attention from the McCann case that he though I would like some of that, I had to smile to myself when the news reader said that a close family member said this charge "is ludicrous"

I could smell a rat at that point too. But I was most intrigued when I heard they were getting hold of PREVIOUS TELPHONE RECORDS .......... Mmmmm ....... Let's see how quickly the police are given these in comparison to the McCann case.

We may be able to question why we can send phone records to South Africa ...... but not Portugal.

Yes and let us hope that the South African prosecutor does not rule all phone records dating from before the crime as inadmissible as his Portuguese counterpart did.

The UK authorities may be on a sticky wicket here. If they surrender the records in this case ...... I would see this as having shown too much favouritism and protection to the holiday-makers. And I would have a whoole load more questions.

Midas wrote:

T4two wrote:

Yes and let us hope that the South African prosecutor does not rule all phone records dating from before the crime as inadmissible as his Portuguese counterpart did.

The UK authorities may be on a sticky wicket here. If they surrender the records in this case ...... I would see this as having shown too much favouritism and protection to the holiday-makers. And I would have a whoole load more questions.

I've never understood why the Portuguese prosecutor ruled them inadmissable, but anyways it'll be interesting if Britain can provide Dewanis phoen records.....

Interesting development - following appeal (of bail release granted against £250k) Dewani will remain in custody (Channel 4 News)

carmen wrote:Interesting development - following appeal (of bail release granted against £250k) Dewani will remain in custody (Channel 4 News)

I often wonder hw much the holiday-makers bail would have been set at if they had been charged with anything at all ....... And how much more it will be in the future. If ...... they were to get bail. Perhaps they will just be kept in custody too.

@ margaret ....... It is possible that the judge was ''directed'' not to rule the phone records admissable.

A new broom will sweep clean and we may have a brand new canvas to paint on in the New Year. With incorruptible officials. I live in hope.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8189402/Honeymoon-murder-Shrien-Dewani-to-remain-in-custody.html

Honeymoon murder: Shrien Dewani to remain in custody
The British newly-wed accused of paying to have his bride killed on their South African honeymoon is to be held in jail overnight after an appeal was lodged against the granting of £250,000 bail.
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TelegraphPlayer-8189596
3:58PM GMT 08 Dec 2010

Shrien Dewani, who was arrested last night on a South African extradition warrant, was initially granted bail when he appeared at City of Westminster Magistrates' Court today.

But the South African authorities lodged an immediate appeal, which means the businessman from Bristol will be held in custody pending a High Court hearing.

Dewani, whose wife Anni, 28, was shot dead last month as they visited a township, was arrested on suspicion of conspiring to murder her.

The 30-year-old was accused of ordering her death by taxi driver Zola Tongo as he was sentenced for his part in the killing in a South African court yesterday.

The court heard that Tongo had not only implicated Dewani in the murder, but had also mentioned to another man that he thought it was not the first time the Briton had arranged such a killing.

The taxi driver said he got the impression that Dewani had been in South Africa before and "had done something like this before and said he wanted the murder to look like a hijacking", according to a statement given to South African police by an alleged middleman.

Acting for the South African authorities, lawyer Ben Watson told today's extradition hearing that Dewani had met Tongo at Cape Town international airport and arranged for him to take him and his new bride to their hotel and to act as their tour guide.

As their guide, Tongo collected the couple from their hotel and took them out for dinner at a seafood restaurant.

On their way back, they passed through the dangerous Gugulethu township, where the allegedly pre-ordered hijacking took place, Mr Watson said.

Speaking outside City of Westminster Magistrates' Court today, members of Mrs Dewani's family said they wanted "justice for Anni".

The relatives, including three women cousins, appeared shaken after hearing details of the case.

Asked if Mr Dewani should return to South Africa, one man said: "I would say he needs to go. That is all I would say."

Another family member added as they pushed through a scrum of media, "Nothing will bring our daughter back."

Well, I'm back. Been totally out of the loop for nearly 4 weeks. However, when I eventually got Sky headlines I thought to myself "hmmm....this doesn't sound right. What does it remind me of? Wonder what "my gang" think of it.....".

T4two wrote:

Angelique wrote:I have also asked this before - if Shrien didn't want to marry Anni - why did he go ahead. Is he suffering from some malady perhaps.

Why, if the supposed "kidnapping" wasn't arranged - were these other people involved. If it wasn't true they would be superfluous. The taxi driver could have done the kidnapping himself.

Angelique

It doesn't add up, because if the intention had been to murder the wife, there is no point in staging an abduction for her benefit or of the participants. Perhaps the wife was supposed to be abducted for ransom and it all went horribly wrong?

It would have looked even more suspicious to simply kill her and let him go at the point where they were carjacked. In reality it's likely that they would both be killed at the same time. If Anni was taken to be sexually assaulted and robbed it seems highly likely that the husband wouldn't just be thrown out of the car completely unharmed. I can understand people finding it strange that someone would kill their bride on the honeymoon, when separation and divorce is the normal response to dissatisfaction with a marriage, but men have killed women (and children) for all sorts of pathetic reasons. I read somewhere that they were not even legally married, but rather had a type of wedding blessing, as Daweni is still legally married to a previous woman. Since then this information seems to have disappeared off the internet (courtesy of reputation protection services ?), but I definitely saw it.

As far as the families' culture is concerned - there was a Hindu wedding ceremony and a Hindu shrine created after the death, which suggests their culture is Hindu .

jejune wrote:

T4two wrote:

Angelique wrote:I have also asked this before - if Shrien didn't want to marry Anni - why did he go ahead. Is he suffering from some malady perhaps.

Why, if the supposed "kidnapping" wasn't arranged - were these other people involved. If it wasn't true they would be superfluous. The taxi driver could have done the kidnapping himself.

Angelique

It doesn't add up, because if the intention had been to murder the wife, there is no point in staging an abduction for her benefit or of the participants. Perhaps the wife was supposed to be abducted for ransom and it all went horribly wrong?

It would have looked even more suspicious to simply kill her and let him go at the point where they were carjacked. In reality it's likely that they would both be killed at the same time. If Anni was taken to be sexually assaulted and robbed it seems highly likely that the husband wouldn't just be thrown out of the car completely unharmed. I can understand people finding it strange that someone would kill their bride on the honeymoon, when separation and divorce is the normal response to dissatisfaction with a marriage, but men have killed women (and children) for all sorts of pathetic reasons. I read somewhere that they were not even legally married, but rather had a type of wedding blessing, as Daweni is still legally married to a previous woman. Since then this information seems to have disappeared off the internet (courtesy of reputation protection services ?), but I definitely saw it.

As far as the families' culture is concerned - there was a Hindu wedding ceremony and a Hindu shrine created after the death, which suggests their culture is Hindu .

Thanks jejune. I finally looked up Lohana caste! And yes, Hindu!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohana

Originally Lohanas were a prominent community of the Kshatriya[4][dubious – discuss] caste (Sanskrit क्षत्रिय Kshatriya) that originated in then in the region of Punjab and later on migrated to Sindh and present day Gujarat state in India[5][dubious – discuss]. As administrators and rulers, Kshatriya Lohanas were assigned with protecting the people, and serving humanity. Over time, however, as a result of economic and political exigencies, the majority of Lohanas are now mainly engaged in mercantile occupations.

Some of the Lohanas converted to Sunni Islam, they are called Memon (Gujarati: મેમણ).

Ismaili Dai' Pir Sadardin converted many of them to the Ismaili sect of Islam. They are known as "Khoja" (ethno Khawaja).

jejune wrote:

T4two wrote:

Angelique wrote:I have also asked this before - if Shrien didn't want to marry Anni - why did he go ahead. Is he suffering from some malady perhaps.

Why, if the supposed "kidnapping" wasn't arranged - were these other people involved. If it wasn't true they would be superfluous. The taxi driver could have done the kidnapping himself.

Angelique

It doesn't add up, because if the intention had been to murder the wife, there is no point in staging an abduction for her benefit or of the participants. Perhaps the wife was supposed to be abducted for ransom and it all went horribly wrong?

It would have looked even more suspicious to simply kill her and let him go at the point where they were carjacked. In reality it's likely that they would both be killed at the same time. If Anni was taken to be sexually assaulted and robbed it seems highly likely that the husband wouldn't just be thrown out of the car completely unharmed. I can understand people finding it strange that someone would kill their bride on the honeymoon, when separation and divorce is the normal response to dissatisfaction with a marriage, but men have killed women (and children) for all sorts of pathetic reasons. I read somewhere that they were not even legally married, but rather had a type of wedding blessing, as Daweni is still legally married to a previous woman. Since then this information seems to have disappeared off the internet (courtesy of reputation protection services ?), but I definitely saw it.

As far as the families' culture is concerned - there was a Hindu wedding ceremony and a Hindu shrine created after the death, which suggests their culture is Hindu .

To whom would it have looked more suspicious? To the victim or to the perpetrators? Nobody else was present. There are after all no independent witnesses - so why stage a hijack at all? Why not just kill her and say there was a hijack?

Although this isn't relevant to the discussion, I wonder if Shrien Dawani is the same Shrien Dewani, 22, general secretary of National Hindu Students Forum. This was in 2002, so the date matches with his age now. I thought it couldn't be when it was suggested he was a Sikh, but now I'm thinking there's a good chance it is him.