LS Media - Published On: Mon, Jul 2nd, No, I shan’t look for Maddie in Tallinn.

Fern wrote:

Bobsy wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

"If there had been cause for concern in any of the children, it would have been brought to my attention, and this did not happen."

And who would have brought this to the doctor's attention? The children were only seen for routine vaccinations by the nurses, and while I don't think the children would have been physically abused, nurses doing vaccinations don't do examinations and don't do much more than just vaccinate. So, how would cause for concern arise and if not the nurses, who else would pass on their concern to a GP rather than, say, Social Services?

Cause for concern often begins when a child starts school' That is the time when neglect/abuse is noticed.

Yes and even prior to this Bobsy when/if they attend a creche.

(A friend of mine runs a creche and all staff attended a course on child protection.)

Yes absolutely a good creche run by trained personnel would be observant to development, neglect, abuse. A sad fact though some abusers have worked in creches, is that a word?
I mentioned starting school as opposed to attending a creche as these are more structured and attended daily so a child is or should be seen on a daily basis.

Many schools are very on the ball with child protection procedures and will pick up on anything of concern, however, sadly many are not. Sometimes people in the community may suspect abuse but dont report it and dont want to get involved, some do report suspicions again and again and in some cases Nothing is done by the Police, Social Services, etc., the child is still left in the same situation.

We have seen children time and time again let down by the authorities and people turning a blind eye all too often.

It would be nice to think we do live in a world where any kind of abuse is picked up by the people who should be picking up on it, like the schools for instance, but still this is not always happening.

cherry1 wrote:

It is totally irrelevant what the doctor says, the Mccanns have Admitted leaving their young
children alone - that is Neglect!

Indeed cherry. According to the McCanns, on May 3rd 2007 their 3 year old daughter asked them "Where were you when we were crying last night?" They STILL went and left their 3 toddlers alone the following night and one of them was "abducted". It gives neglect a whole new meaning.

maebee wrote:

cherry1 wrote:

It is totally irrelevant what the doctor says, the Mccanns have Admitted leaving their young
children alone - that is Neglect!

Indeed cherry. According to the McCanns, on May 3rd 2007 their 3 year old daughter asked them "Where were you when we were crying last night?" They STILL went and left their 3 toddlers alone the following night and one of them was "abducted". It gives neglect a whole new meaning.

I find it very hard to accept that two qualified medical doctors should think it was OK to leave three children, all under the age of four, alone in an unlocked apartment and that checking every 30 minutes was adequate and responsible parenting.

Bobsy wrote:

Yes absolutely a good creche run by trained personnel would be observant to development, neglect, abuse. A sad fact though some abusers have worked in creches, is that a word?
I mentioned starting school as opposed to attending a creche as these are more structured and attended daily so a child is or should be seen on a daily basis.

Its sickening really isn't it at the lengths these perverted types will go to and they can be found in all manner of jobs however thats another issue altogether.

Quite true with regards to them attending on a daily basis although of course it could only take the one observation to raise enough concern to report.

Spencer Montagu - That’s really where my disdain lies, that this family have profited from the tragedy to such a large extent, continuing to do so 5 years on.


I think this says it all really and I imagine an angle that the Police will be looking into with a fine
tooth comb, the Mccanns finances, any debts, the speed at which they said an abduction when she
could have wandered off, the speed at which Company set up and website, the speed at which the marketing goods were being sold. I also believe at one time to get a poster you had to purchase a bracelet, all posters should have been given out FREE. Then we have the film discussion, the Book, the suing of the papers, the marketing of the Fund as a charity in many cases, etc.

Then they will no doubt be looking into why hire Metodo 3 who have no experience in finding missing children but experience in money laundering, no doubt they will be looking into those associated with Mccanns like BK and his companies (past and present), Halligen, etc.,

The whole focus of this case to many seems to be about Money and then of course there was the comment about the marketing ploy.

I agree with your last comment entirely Cherry. I really do hope that NSY is looking into all these issues and also the clear evidence that the fund is and was being mis-managed.

Don't forget that it is not only the McCanns but also their friends who claim they left their children unattended, including two who were unwell. I simply don't believe that this is true but they had to come up with some yarn to explain why Madeleine was not there. They've certainly managed to fool some people with their nonsense. There are plenty who like me weren't born yesterday (!) but whether any of them are in a position to bring this unsavoury mob to account seems very unlikely at the moment.

I have a real sinking feeling that the official verdict "abducted by a stranger" is already set in stone.

I would say that in view of some of the police officers who are on this particular
case there could be concerns about whether a whitewash is going to be done,
however I hope I am wrong. Decent and honest coppers do not like to be
made mugs off particularly by people who are so arrogant so I really hope that
on this case there will be some decent honest coppers who will do their jobs properly
and that we are not going to see any corruption involved in whitewashing the case.

I have like you no doubt at all that the children were not left alone, that is a smokescreen which
as you say many have been taken in by. They would rather hold their hands up for neglect than
something which may well be more sinister.

cherry1 wrote:I would say that in view of some of the police officers who are on this particular
case there could be concerns about whether a whitewash is going to be done,
however I hope I am wrong. Decent and honest coppers do not like to be
made mugs off particularly by people who are so arrogant so I really hope that
on this case there will be some decent honest coppers who will do their jobs properly
and that we are not going to see any corruption involved in whitewashing the case.

I have like you no doubt at all that the children were not left alone, that is a smokescreen which
as you say many have been taken in by. They would rather hold their hands up for neglect than
something which may well be more sinister.

Just want to give you a pat on the back Cherry. But do be careful of expert provocateurs that are merely on a wind-up. There`s a set technique that`s been quite recognisable on here tonight.

Yes - everybody, please don't react to the trolls and they will soon go away. It's after midnight and feeding them now has the same effect as feeding gremlins!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIrd4172Czw&feature=related

Mind you, they can at times be hilarious! Jodel was a classic.

Thank you Oldartform, that is much appreciated for your kind words. x


and NBY for your wise words. x

Yes well done Cherry You handled them better than I did. I can say I always find your posts & thoughts very interesting, even though you are a gooner

Under Portuguese law the mccanns did commit a crime with neglect, and they only escaped because of the power of the British Establishment behind them. Since 10am on May 3rd 2007 they immediately shouted abduction and blame the Portugesue police in order to deflect and derail the investigation away from them and into different direction. Amaral has said so many times it was the British Intervention that stopped the truth being exposed. jane tanner also left knowing her child was sick in the apartment to go out boozing, swapping with her partner. But I agree this is all irrelevant as there was no abduction and no checking on kids every 15-30 mins. I am sure the missing statements say this

Thank you jd16, much appreciated (I'll ignore the bit about the gooner! )


jd16 - Under Portuguese law the mccanns did commit a crime with neglect, and they only escaped because of the power of the British Establishment behind them. Since 10am on May 3rd 2007 they immediately shouted abduction and blame the Portugesue police in order to deflect and derail the investigation away from them and into different direction. Amaral has said so many times it was the British Intervention that stopped the truth being exposed. jane tanner also left knowing her child was sick in the apartment to go out boozing, swapping with her partner. But I agree this is all irrelevant as there was no abduction and no checking on kids every 15-30 mins. I am sure the missing statements say this


Great post- I think it sums it up exactly, and I have no doubt in my mind that but for the interference
of the Government charges would have been brought against the Mccanns. Lets hope that one day justice will be done for Madeleine.

Night all, sweet dreams.

I thought you might ignore the gooner bit!

Have sweet dreams about Cesc!

AnnaEsse wrote:

maebee wrote:

cherry1 wrote:

It is totally irrelevant what the doctor says, the Mccanns have Admitted leaving their young
children alone - that is Neglect!

Indeed cherry. According to the McCanns, on May 3rd 2007 their 3 year old daughter asked them "Where were you when we were crying last night?" They STILL went and left their 3 toddlers alone the following night and one of them was "abducted". It gives neglect a whole new meaning.

I find it very hard to accept that two qualified medical doctors should think it was OK to leave three children, all under the age of four, alone in an unlocked apartment and that checking every 30 minutes was adequate and responsible parenting.

Ok, but what if it was only Madeleine that
was left alone and the twins were elsewhere?
Hence the need to report the remark "Where
were you when WE were crying last night?"
As I said in my earlier post, I don't believe
they neglected the babies but I could go with
Madeleine alone. If I'm right, the cots had
no bedding/covers, this would IMO indicate
the babes were elsewhere and positioned
later as part of a cover-up and a staging for
their neglect story.Furthermore, the crime
scene photos of 5a illustrate a scene that
is far removed from a room occupied by 3
children and traces of their presence.

marxman wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

maebee wrote:

cherry1 wrote:

It is totally irrelevant what the doctor says, the Mccanns have Admitted leaving their young
children alone - that is Neglect!

Indeed cherry. According to the McCanns, on May 3rd 2007 their 3 year old daughter asked them "Where were you when we were crying last night?" They STILL went and left their 3 toddlers alone the following night and one of them was "abducted". It gives neglect a whole new meaning.

I find it very hard to accept that two qualified medical doctors should think it was OK to leave three children, all under the age of four, alone in an unlocked apartment and that checking every 30 minutes was adequate and responsible parenting.

Ok, but what if it was only Madeleine that
was left alone and the twins were elsewhere? Hence the need to report the remark "Where
were you when WE were crying last night?"
As I said in my earlier post, I don't believe
they neglected the babies but I could go with
Madeleine alone. If I'm right, the cots had
no bedding/covers, this would IMO indicate
the babes were elsewhere and positioned
later as part of a cover-up and a staging for
their neglect story.Furthermore, the crime
scene photos of 5a illustrate a scene that
is far removed from a room occupied by 3
children and traces of their presence.

Good morning marxman

I have always believed Madeleine was alone in the McCanns apartment, since I heard Gerry McCann, "we regret leaving Madeleine alone, on the night she was abducted." He said this on the steps of the Lisbon court, when he and his wife were in the process of having Goncalo Amaral's book permanently banned.

No one challenged Gerry McCann when he made this statement, Sandra Felgueiras was also there and she said nothing, or if she did, she couldn't be heard, because Gerry McCann wouldn't let anyone get a word in edgeways. However Sandra did ask Kate McCann if Madeleine was alone in their apartment, on the night she disappeared. She first of all asked Kate, why she left the twins alone, when she ran for help, instead of shouting through the window. She asked Kate if she was not worried that the abductor would come back and take the twins.

Sandra then asked Kate if Madeleine was alone in their apartment and Kate changed the subject, she asked Kate the same question twice and each time Kate changed the subject. Instead of Sandra pursuing the question, she asked her questions about something else.

This is what I believe could have happened and I believe David Payne is involved with my theory. Madeleine as we know supposedly told her parents what happened on the previous evening. If this was true, the McCanns could have asked David Payne to administer a sedative, but he accidently overdosed Madeleine and she went into fits or something else involved with an overdose and died. David Payne then took the twins to his apartment and then came back and removed Madeleine from the apartment.

Or another theory is, Madeleine was given a hiding by Madeleine and she went to far. Madeleine banged her head on the wall and died. David Payne came to the apartment while this was going on or after the incident, he certified Madeleine dead and then took the twins to his apartment. He then came back and removed Madeleine from their apartment.

Again these are only my theories, but one thing I am convinced of, is the twins were not in the McCanns apartment on the night Madeleine disappeared. If I am wrong, why did Gerry say Madeleine was alone? Why did Kate change the subject, each time Sandra asked her if Madeleine was alone in their apartment on the night she disappeared?

kathybelle wrote:

marxman wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

maebee wrote:

cherry1 wrote:

It is totally irrelevant what the doctor says, the Mccanns have Admitted leaving their young
children alone - that is Neglect!

Indeed cherry. According to the McCanns, on May 3rd 2007 their 3 year old daughter asked them "Where were you when we were crying last night?" They STILL went and left their 3 toddlers alone the following night and one of them was "abducted". It gives neglect a whole new meaning.

I find it very hard to accept that two qualified medical doctors should think it was OK to leave three children, all under the age of four, alone in an unlocked apartment and that checking every 30 minutes was adequate and responsible parenting.

Ok, but what if it was only Madeleine that
was left alone and the twins were elsewhere? Hence the need to report the remark "Where
were you when WE were crying last night?"
As I said in my earlier post, I don't believe
they neglected the babies but I could go with
Madeleine alone. If I'm right, the cots had
no bedding/covers, this would IMO indicate
the babes were elsewhere and positioned
later as part of a cover-up and a staging for
their neglect story.Furthermore, the crime
scene photos of 5a illustrate a scene that
is far removed from a room occupied by 3
children and traces of their presence.

Good morning marxman

I have always believed Madeleine was alone in the McCanns apartment, since I heard Gerry McCann, "we regret leaving Madeleine alone, on the night she was abducted." He said this on the steps of the Lisbon court, when he and his wife were in the process of having Goncalo Amaral's book permanently banned.

No one challenged Gerry McCann when he made this statement, Sandra Felgueiras was also there and she said nothing, or if she did, she couldn't be heard, because Gerry McCann wouldn't let anyone get a word in edgeways. However Sandra did ask Kate McCann if Madeleine was alone in their apartment, on the night she disappeared. She first of all asked Kate, why she left the twins alone, when she ran for help, instead of shouting through the window. She asked Kate if she was not worried that the abductor would come back and take the twins.

Sandra then asked Kate if Madeleine was alone in their apartment and Kate changed the subject, she asked Kate the same question twice and each time Kate changed the subject. Instead of Sandra pursuing the question, she asked her questions about something else.

This is what I believe could have happened and I believe David Payne is involved with my theory. Madeleine as we know supposedly told her parents what happened on the previous evening. If this was true, the McCanns could have asked David Payne to administer a sedative, but he accidently overdosed Madeleine and she went into fits or something else involved with an overdose and died. David Payne then took the twins to his apartment and then came back and removed Madeleine from the apartment.

Or another theory is, Madeleine was given a hiding by Madeleine and she went to far. Madeleine banged her head on the wall and died. David Payne came to the apartment while this was going on or after the incident, he certified Madeleine dead and then took the twins to his apartment. He then came back and removed Madeleine from their apartment.

Again these are only my theories, but one thing I am convinced of, is the twins were not in the McCanns apartment on the night Madeleine disappeared. If I am wrong, why did Gerry say Madeleine was alone? Why did Kate change the subject, each time Sandra asked her if Madeleine was alone in their apartment on the night she disappeared?

And why did Matthew Oldfield offer to check on Madeleine and not on 'the children.'?

However Sandra did ask Kate McCann if Madeleine was alone in their apartment, on the night she disappeared. She first of all asked Kate, why she left the twins alone, when she ran for help, instead of shouting through the window. She asked Kate if she was not worried that the abductor would come back and take the twins.

Putting aside the truth kate mccann was not worried because she knew there was no abductor.....kate mccann knew that jane tanner was in her apartment 2 doors down at this time, as kate mccann was at the table when jane tanner left at 9.45pm to allow her partner to come down for his cold steak & new zealand white wine. Wouldn't you shout next door knowing your friend was in there instead of running to the bar and leaving your twins totally exposed to an abductor to snatch them too?

I think during one of these so called 'checks' was when the twins were moved into apartment 5A. Maybe jane tanners partner coming down for his cold steak at 9.45pm was the all ready sign, jane tanner then went up to keep eye on the kids as kate prepared herself for the dramatic moment

jd16 wrote:I thought you might ignore the gooner bit!

Have sweet dreams about Cesc!

I did have very sweet dreams about Cesc and very nice they were too!

cherry1 wrote:

jd16 wrote:I thought you might ignore the gooner bit!

Have sweet dreams about Cesc!

I did have very sweet dreams about Cesc and very nice they were too!

I thought it was hot last night!!

Very hot!


I think there is a possibility that Madeleine had someone with her but equally there
could be a possibility as has been mentioned that if she was alone that she may have
been given something to make her sleep as also with the twins, this could well account for
Fiona saying about Kate checking if the twins were breathing. If Madeleine was sedated
and given an overdose that could have accounted for comments that were made about
if there had been an accident they would have known how to resuscitate (havent got the
exact words but remember this was mentioned or words to that effect).

cherry1 wrote:Very hot!


I think there is a possibility that Madeleine had someone with her but equally there
could be a possibility as has been mentioned that if she was alone that she may have
been given something to make her sleep as also with the twins, this could well account for
Fiona saying about Kate checking if the twins were breathing. If Madeleine was sedated
and given an overdose that could have accounted for comments that were made about
if there had been an accident they would have known how to resuscitate (havent got the
exact words but remember this was mentioned or words to that effect).

also wasnt a tracheotomy mentioned ina media report??? ie one of them said they could do one??

yes I think you are right about that too, will try and look up some stuff later,
back to work for me.

The twins were drugged, even the tapas 9 say they were in their statements (paynes/webster).... even though they blame the abductor which is absolute rubbish. I think the twins were drugged by the mccanns so they would be totally oblivious to what was going to happen that evening and could never have any sort of memory of it

Cherry, you said something interesting last night about the posters and having to purchase a wristband to get one. I wasn't around at the time so do not know but do you (or anybody else) know if there was an option to download a poster for free to print, or whether you only got one if you purchased something. It would be absolutely astounding if you had to purchase something and there was no option to freely download a poster, and sum everything up

I've been reading this thread on and off all afternoon!

I'm always genuinely intrigued by McCann supporters and their reasons for believing with such certainty that the couple could not have been involved in whatever happened to Madeleine.

Something which has concerned me a great deal recently is the sudden U Turn regarding Madeleine's eye defect.

How can this be explained, and why did the media not seize on it??

For Kate to state now that they didn't make much of her eye is blatantly untrue. Why does nobody question it?