what the mcanns have broken up???

I have only just read the Article and the "split" hasn't been altered. This Katy didn't do her homework regarding other comments either..

Kate and Gerry had a row while in PDL and Kate slept in the spare bed in the Children's room., and I have often wondered why she chose to get pregnant again so soon after Madeleine's birth, I seem to remember there is only 11 months after Madeleine was born for kate to become pregnant.

Since their arguido status was lifted, why havn't the McCanns reclaimed Guardianship of Madeleine ?

AnnaEsse wrote:

pennylane wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

pennylane wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:I know I'm generalising, but Gerry seems like the kind of man who grew up seeing women do all the child care and housework and men went played football and went drinking with their mates. When these men are in elevated social positions, they join exclusive golf clubs and have weekends away with their friends. It's all the same thing.

Thanks LJC, that is very interesting.  I absolutely agree with you both.   You just have to look at the bus video where Kate looks at loose ends and seems embarrassed when the camera pans her way, and Gerry looks stubborn and sulky. I'd say they had a big pow wow that very morning, hence his comment 'f*** off I'm not here to enjoy myself!'  I think those type of arguments carried on throughout the ill-fated holiday.

Yep! I agree. Their attitudes on that video had all the hallmarks of a recent row. Gerry McCann reminds me of so many wee numpties fae the Sooth Side of Glasgow who think the wives do all the work at home while they go out to play!

Indeed, and I think Kate was at her wits end with his selfish antics.

I'm agreeing again. While Kate seems to have acquired a reputation as a not too good mother because family members came to help at the weekends, why was that necessary? I don't believe a cardiologist works many weekends. Gerry was probably at the golf club!

IVF treatment and giving birth to twins are both renowned causes of depression due to massive hormonal fluctuations. It's possible the help Kate was given was due to a bout of depression. If Gerry didn't help out, that would put enormous strain on the relationship. He may have kept himself as busy as possible to avoid her, which is often what men do, exacerbating everything even more.  

We know Gerry had his golf clubs stolen from out of his car.  Probably they were left there because he used them a lot!

Panda wrote:
I have only just read the Article and the "split" hasn't been altered. This Katy didn't do her homework regarding other comments either..

Kate and Gerry had a row while in PDL and Kate slept in the spare bed in the Children's room., and I have often wondered why she chose to get pregnant again so soon after Madeleine's birth, I seem to remember there is only 11 months after Madeleine was born for kate to become pregnant.

Since their arguido status was lifted, why havn't  the McCanns reclaimed Guardianship of Madeleine ?

I don't think anything wrong with getting pregnant again so soon,she probably didn't think she would have twins even though it was obviously a possibility.

ProfessorPlum wrote:

Panda wrote:
I have only just read the Article and the "split" hasn't been altered. This Katy didn't do her homework regarding other comments either..

Kate and Gerry had a row while in PDL and Kate slept in the spare bed in the Children's room., and I have often wondered why she chose to get pregnant again so soon after Madeleine's birth, I seem to remember there is only 11 months after Madeleine was born for kate to become pregnant.

Since their arguido status was lifted, why havn't  the McCanns reclaimed Guardianship of Madeleine ?

I don't think anything wrong with getting pregnant again so soon,she probably didn't think she would have twins even though it was obviously a possibility.

Apparently eggs were stored when Madeleine was born so Kate didn't have to go through the fertilisation programme again. Twins would be a handful to manage , although as you say, she probably didn't think she would have twins. I just thought she would give herself more time with the longed for child before becoming pregnant again, Madeleine was only 11 months old at the time Kate was in Hospital having the egg inserted which is a delicate operation .

there is a 21 month age gap between Madeleine and the twins. Given that Kate was in her late 30s I don't think it was odd that she tried for a second pregnancy relatively soon after Madeleine's birth.

Panda wrote:

ProfessorPlum wrote:

Panda wrote:
I have only just read the Article and the "split" hasn't been altered. This Katy didn't do her homework regarding other comments either..

Kate and Gerry had a row while in PDL and Kate slept in the spare bed in the Children's room., and I have often wondered why she chose to get pregnant again so soon after Madeleine's birth, I seem to remember there is only 11 months after Madeleine was born for kate to become pregnant.

Since their arguido status was lifted, why havn't  the McCanns reclaimed Guardianship of Madeleine ?

I don't think anything wrong with getting pregnant again so soon,she probably didn't think she would have twins even though it was obviously a possibility.

Apparently eggs were stored when Madeleine was born so Kate didn't have to go through the fertilisation programme again. Twins would be a handful to manage , although as you say, she probably didn't think she would have twins. I just thought she would give herself more time with the longed for child before becoming pregnant again, Madeleine was only 11 months old at the time Kate was in Hospital having the egg inserted which is a delicate operation .

Well said Panda:flower: 

Kate has often spoke of how Madeleine suffered from colic as a tiny baby. Then when the twins were born, she spoke of how Madeleine demanded attention from her. What did she expect? Madeleine was a toddler, when the twins were born and it's only natural that she demanded attention. I remember one of Gerry's family saying something on the lines of 'that girl could throw a tantrum' I also remember Kate's mother saying, Kate was finding it hard to cope with Madeleine as well as the twins. She said she would have to go to Rothley and help her daughter.

FGS what was wrong with this family, Madeleine was behaving exactly how toddlers of her age behave, especially when siblings arrive. So what if Kate's mother had to help her daughter, most parents help their offspring when they have children of their own. Susan Healy was lucky she only had one child to support, many parents have to split themselves in two, three or many more pieces, when their children need help with their own children.

In my opinion, the McCanns are a selfish couple. They proved it by leaving their children unattended (always assuming they were speaking the truth) when they went out and they've proved it since, by not looking for Madeleine, lying to save their own skins and using Madeleine's money, to pay for anything but searches for her. They make me sick and so do their wider family, who are also (according to Clarence Mitchell) benefitting from Madeleine's fund, when they too have never lifted a finger to find Madeleine.

The only people who should have benefitted from Madeleine's fund, are those who needed money, to properly investigate her disappearance and physically search for her. Which is something none of the McCanns private detectives never did. The fund should not be assisting finances of the McCanns and their wider family and it should not be used to pay for the lawyers fees, when the McCanns lost their 3 cases against Goncalo Amaral, or any fees that incurred, when they began a lawsuit against the owner of a Portuguese newspaper, which they halted, when they were advised they wouldn't win the lawsuit.

Rant over.

Kitti you are a hoot... Ha ha.

Hi Kathybelle, my youngest son had evening colic from about 5 months old to almost a year, there was nothing you could do then except what the Doctor said to offer relief . I had to hold him against my chest with his back to me and hold his thighs so he looked as if he was on the toilet, I'm sure they have better solutions these days......didn't do any good anyway.!!!  Kate is an only child so probably used to getting her own way , I suspect even before Madeleine disappeared relations were strained , if they really have split, I feel sorry for the twins, first of all their big Sister , now their Parents fighting.

Panda wrote:, Madeleine was only 11 months old at the time Kate was in Hospital having the egg inserted which is a delicate operation .

There's nothing to that panda, it's rather like a smear test, albeit it done in an operating theatre!

margaret wrote:

Panda wrote:, Madeleine was only 11 months old at the time Kate was in Hospital having the egg inserted which is a delicate operation .

There's nothing to that panda, it's rather like a smear test, albeit it done in an operating theatre!

So Kate wouldn't be in Hospital long? We were just commenting on why Kate , knowing Madeleine was a handful to look after, decided to get pregnant again so soon.Also, since they must have wanted children so badly that Kate opted for invitro, why they failed to look after them properly, especially as they knew Madeleine was prone to wake up at all hours.

I don't understand why they had to have IVF in amsterdam when eggs were stored in the UK....could they have waited till they came back to the UK.


Why go to another country, put your child in childcare , which she did, and have IVF .....she left a very young Madeleine with total strangers and could off waited one year and left Madeleine with the grandparents etc when they got back to the UK...don't forget, Kate McCann spent most off the time on bed rest, madeleine was being looked after by strangers...no change their then is there.


It does sound odd yes but knowing Kate McCann she probably didn't want Gerry to go to amsterdam without her so she chose to forget about madeleines feelings and opted for her own....Gerry could off came home every other weekend , it wasn't Impossible to do that but knowing Gerry he probably would off been happy to spend time with his 'mates'...remember, he worked every weekend when he was only supposed to work two weekends a month.

kitti wrote:I don't understand why they had to have IVF in amsterdam when eggs were stored in the UK....could they have waited till they came back to the UK.


Why go to another country, put your child in childcare , which she did, and have IVF .....she left a very young Madeleine with total strangers and could off waited one year and left Madeleine with the grandparents etc when they got back to the UK...don't  forget, Kate McCann spent most off the time on bed rest,  madeleine was being looked after by strangers...no change their then is there.


It does sound odd yes but knowing Kate McCann she probably didn't want Gerry to go to amsterdam without her so she chose to forget about madeleines feelings and opted for her own....Gerry could off came home every other weekend , it wasn't Impossible to do that but knowing Gerry he probably would off been happy to spend time with his 'mates'...remember, he worked every weekend when he was only supposed to work two weekends a month.

Morning kitti, I understood Kate had the IVF treatment in Amsterdam , returned to the U.K. maybe brought the eggs with her and lodged them at her local Hospital, then when she was ready she had the treatment there. I 'm sure they had to pay in Amsterdam. Maybe one of our slueths will find a profile of Kate somewhere , on 3a's one of the Members had a user name Otlipseely when I asked why the funny user name she said Kate was known as Hot Lips Heely in University  

A person with narcissistic tendencies doesn't really register the viewpoint of a toddler, and the normalness of various manifestations of jealousy of a new baby... and begorrah... Kate had TWO new babies! My granddaughter is two and her sister is three months old. I told my son that, at the same age, with roughly, the same gap, I gave my sister a resounding slap across the face so hard the red fingermarks showed... immediately after chummily singing and dancing up towards her in faux affection. My granddaughter Mabel has never done anything so nasty, but she has 'acted up' with the odd extra temper tantrum, been more 'minky' ie more demanding of attention... 'look at me dancing'... 'see my puzzle all finished on the floor', 'but I don't want to go to bed yet' etc etc just at the time her mum is feeding or changing the new baby. Extremely self-centred people do see all these things, but only in relation to inconvenience to themselves, and not empathetically from the child's point of view.

Also, I agree with the earlier poster on page 1 who said Kate may have suffered from post-natal depression which can sometimes be quite covert... not acknowledged by the mother even, but seen in things like reluctance to pick the baby up, for instance, and greater frustration/irritation than normal at not always being able to sort out why the child is crying; greater need to turn in early to go to bed, and leaving the other partner to deal with the baby more frequently than is fair. If Madeleine was a difficult to comfort child, difficult to settle to sleep, difficult to burp after a feed, difficult to 'entertain', because of her having a lot of colic, this would make the relationship between K and M still worse. I wonder how much help to her Gerry was. He might have had to do more than we give him credit for. M was quite a Daddy's girl, I think. I agree that acknowledged post-natal depression might account for the extra help family members gave to Kate. We can never know. It is all guesswork and conjecture.

None of the above would mean Kate did not care about or love Madeleine... in her own way...

comperedna wrote:A person with narcissistic tendencies doesn't really register the viewpoint of a toddler, and the normalness of various manifestations of jealousy of a new baby... and begorrah... Kate had TWO new babies! My granddaughter is two and her sister is three months old. I told my son that, at the same age, with roughly, the same gap, I gave my sister a resounding slap across the face so hard the red fingermarks showed... immediately after chummily singing and dancing up towards her in faux affection. My granddaughter Mabel has never done anything so nasty, but she has 'acted up' with the odd extra temper tantrum, been more 'minky' ie more demanding of attention... 'look at me dancing'... 'see my puzzle all finished on the floor', 'but I don't want to go to bed yet' etc etc just at the time her mum is feeding or changing the new baby. Extremely self-centred people do see all these things, but only in relation to inconvenience to themselves, and not empathetically from the child's point of view.

Also, I agree with the earlier poster on page 1 who said Kate may have suffered from post-natal depression which can sometimes be quite covert... not acknowledged by the mother even, but seen in things like reluctance to pick the baby up, for instance, and greater frustration/irritation than normal at not always being able to sort out why the child is crying; greater need to turn in early to go to bed, and leaving the other partner to  deal with the baby more frequently than is fair. If Madeleine was a difficult to comfort child, difficult to settle to sleep, difficult to burp after a feed, difficult to 'entertain', because of her having a lot of colic, this would make the relationship between K and M still worse. I wonder how much help to her Gerry was. He might have had to do more than we give him credit for. M was quite a Daddy's girl, I think. I agree that acknowledged post-natal depression might account for the extra help family members gave to Kate. We can never know. It is all guesswork and conjecture.

None of the above would mean Kate did not care about or love Madeleine... in her own way...

Hi Comparedna, as I said , my firstborn suffered from evening colic and my ex was not the most patient , nor helpful , I did have another Son but 3 yrs later and luckily didn't have the same complaint . Generally the first born is Bossy and if you look at the video of the 3 children sitting on the stairs Madeleine is doing her own thing , also she used to get in her Parents bed quite often apparently. That is why I can't understand why the children were left alone every single night in a strange place and that was considered normal.

Amazing, I agree. Actually I don't believe it. Either someone was in fact looking after them, possibly all of the children together somewhere, or they were sedated, and that's why K said M could not have walked out of there. Any of my children or grandchildren if left alone in a holiday flat would have woken up in excitement at the new situation, have flipped the lights on and off, pulled stuff around and down and onto the floor, gone into the parents' room and started jumping off the bed, raided the fridge, or gone out and shouted about outside for their parents. As for M being carried out of the place merely sleeping and alive! It is just not on! She would have woken up and shouted the place down.

In my opinion, the McCanns showed no love for any of their children on that so called family holiday. If they were speaking the truth, when they said they said each time they went out without their children, they left them unattended, due to the fact that they are doctors, they must have known that they were putting their children in danger.

However, let's say they were naïve when they left their children unattended, before Madeleine disappeared. If the McCanns were speaking the truth, when they say that on the morning of the night she disappeared, she told them that the previous evening, she and cried and they never came, the McCanns had a massive wakeup call, that they were playing a dangerous game with their children's lives. For them to go out again, leaving them unattended was unforgiveable.

One would have thought that the McCanns would have been mortified, that Madeleine had disappeared while they were out. One would have expected them to be running around like headless chickens looking for Madeleine. We all know what the McCanns were doing when they should have been out looking for Madeleine also, Kate McCann said in more than one interview, why they didn't search for Madeleine. One of the reasons was because they were non functioning and the other was because it was too dark.

For 6 long years the McCanns have been telling others to do something they have never done themselves and that is look for Madeleine.

If the reason Kate McCann behaved as she did on that holiday, was because she suffered from post natal depression. There was no reason for her husband to behave in the same way, he didn't suffer from post natal depression.

I'm not being funny, but loads of women suffer from post natal depression when they have a baby and while some women go to the extreme and harm either their baby or themselves, most women get on with it.

I'm sorry but I just don't get the McCanns at all. The only time they showed any regard for their children's health and safety, was during the day, when they dumped the twins in the crèche and Madeleine in the Kids Club.

I appreciate others don't feel the same way as I do, however I can't help the way I feel.

Both are doctors and Kate was a GP presumably sometimes diagnosing postnatal depression in patients. If she was suffering from it, shouldn't one or both of them have realised it and dealt with it?

I have never believed they left the children alone; the truthful book is interesting on the subject of childcare options for that night. She says she would not leave her children with a stranger (babysitter they had not met before) but conveniently fails to mention the paying babysitting service provided by the nannies in the daytime creche - the nannies who were not strangers and liked by the mccanns and their children.

comperedna wrote:Amazing, I agree. Actually I don't believe it. Either someone was in fact looking after them, possibly all of the children together somewhere, or they were sedated, and that's why K said M could not have walked out of there. Any of my children or grandchildren if left alone in a holiday flat would have woken up in excitement at the new situation, have flipped the lights on and off, pulled stuff around and down and onto the floor, gone into the parents' room and started jumping off the bed, raided the fridge, or gone out and shouted about outside for their parents. As for M being carried out of the place merely sleeping and alive! It is just not on! She would have woken up and shouted the place down.

I think they were sedated , it was commented at the time that the twins slept through all the hullabaloo in the Apartment when Tapas 9 were in there.

If you remember Kate was asked direct by Jane Hill of the BBC why she and Gerry never searched for their daughter while everyone else was, Kate replied "Well we were busy.".

Yes Panda, I think they were sedated too. Nothing else makes sense. I usually try not to put out my 'best fit' solution, but that is certainly part of it.

I do NOT think that post natal depression is remotely the cause, on its own of KM's odd behaviour. Just that it could have been a complicating factor in the relationship between KM and MBM, which we do NOT know all that much about, except from her statements, the videos, her appearances and interviews on TV, her book... Well from quite a bit, iI suppose. Far more important is what some people on here are calling her selfish behaviour, and I think is more than that, namely narcissism. 'It was our holiday too'. Family holidays at the seaside even in a naff would-be-upmarket holiday camp do not entail regular daily morning and afternoon dumping of the children in creches, and adult tennis playing, jogging, wining and dining without the children, leaving them, in the flat, all the time supervised or not, or other similar non-family activities.

GPs in my experience are NOT always competent at identifying and dealing with PND which can present in many ways, and to which nice people, and less than nice people, are equally subject.

[Right now I am sick of a GP not picking up that the depression of a friend (now dead) was due to generalized, undiagnosed lymphoma which was so advanced when discovered, that it was terminal within two months. Sure as eggs is eggs, SOME GPs can be quite blinkered, let alone being totally without empathy, and may see not be able to see the wood for the trees. Even I as a friend feel quilty for not saying: 'Has your GP given you a battery of blood tests to try and see why you are feeling so run down and depressed. The GP just decided she was a pain. Sorry this bit in brackets is off topic.]

Moreover, given the extreme complexity of every person, KM may well have loved MBM ... in her own way... which was pretty feeble and lacking in insight, like enough, compared with most people.

Kate must have wanted children otherwise she would not have had fertility treatment, probably Gerry wanted a Family as well, there are photos of them with the 3 children and they do look happy. However, the strain told on Kate and I did read the Holiday was to patch up their Marriage.

Gerry summed up their attitude when he said "it was our Holiday too", Kate apparently slept in the Children's Bedroom one night after a row with Gerry , if Madeleine had not gone missing , would their marriage have survived? who knows. I think when this Libel Case is over, whatever the outcome, the Fund will close and their blog , maybe then if Gerry is seeing someone, it will be O.K. to be seen with her.When you think about it, it is more than 6 years since Madeleine went missing , sadly I don't think she will be found alive or dead and the McCanns have milked her disappearance long enough not to expect any more donations.

Some people just have children because it's another acquisition, the next thing on the agenda.. In some cases  it is not always because  they love children that they have them.  If you know what I am trying to say

fuzeta wrote:Some people just have children because it's another acquisition, the next thing on the agenda.. In some cases  it is not always because  they love children that they have them.  If you know what I am trying to say

I know what you mean, fuzeta.
Got the house, got the job, whats next...oh yes, kids!

fuzeta wrote:Some people just have children because it's another acquisition, the next thing on the agenda.. In some cases  it is not always because  they love children that they have them.  If you know what I am trying to say

I do know what you mean fuzeta, but these were two Professional people who must have had tests to find out why Kate could not conceive , they wanted to have a Family while they were still young enough, in their thirties. Kate either had saved eggs or more IVF treatment because Madeleine was only 11 months old when Kate conceived the twins, which maybe they hadn't bargained for.

wjk wrote:

fuzeta wrote:Some people just have children because it's another acquisition, the next thing on the agenda.. In some cases  it is not always because  they love children that they have them.  If you know what I am trying to say

I know what you mean, fuzeta.
Got the house, got the job, whats next...oh yes, kids!

Yes that is exactly what I mean wjk, thank you.

Panda even if they had fertility treatment to get them. I still think this stands the same.

Call me old fashioned but it is the best way.
Have a job, earning money, have a home and then have children ?

And even more old fashioned.................be married, make a commitment to each other and then have children?
Nowt wrong with that.