Re: Riots in Tottenham now

**Badboy** Thu 11 Aug - 17:31

A SOCIAL WORKER HAS APPEARED IN COURT CONCERNING LOOTING/RIOTING.
MANCHESTER COURT HAD SO MANY DEFENDANTS THAT THEY WERE TURNING AWAY PRISON VANS UNTIL THERE WAS ROOM TO SEE THEM IN THE COURT

**halfamo** Thu 11 Aug - 17:38

Just heard 3 men arrested for running down 3 Asian men in Birmingham .Tariq Jahans dignity courage and generosity of spirit in speaking and calling for calm after the death of his son and 2 friends is a lesson to us all , this man is imo everything that is good about our multicultural society.

**Badboy** Thu 11 Aug - 17:52

halfamo wrote:Just heard 3 men arrested for running down 3 Asian men in Birmingham .Tariq Jahans dignity courage and generosity of spirit in speaking and calling for calm after the death of his son and 2 friends is a lesson to us all , this man is imo everything that is good about our multicultural society.

HEARD THAT AS WELL.
JUST TALKING ON SKY NEWS ABOUT THE LOS ANGELES RIOTS 1992(RODNEY KING BEATING)
SUGGESTED GAP BETWEEN HAVE AND HAVE-NOTS WAS TO BLAME.

**AnnaEsse** Thu 11 Aug - 23:38

A judge in Manchester is taking a tough line! This is an extract from the latest on Sky News about the court hearings.

Sky's Frances Vale was in Manchester Magistrates court where cases were stacking up on Thursday.

Police vans containing people waiting to be dealt with were turned away due to the backlog and they returned instead to the police cells.

Court lists issued to the media were out of date and fresh ones supplied with new names at lunchtime.

One security guard mentioned that this had not happened for at least 10 years.

Inside court, district judge Alan Berg made it clear how repulsive he finds the behaviour of the looters.

At one point he exclaimed there were not enough adjectives he could use to express his dismay at the "uncivilised, animal-like, thuggish behaviour" that had been exhibited.

It became apparent as one defendant after another was remanded in custody that he was going to take a very hard line and the "my client has been very stupid excuse" was not going to wash with him.

By lunchtime he had dealt with 10 cases and by 4pm, 20. None were released on bail for their offences.

The parents of Stefan Hoyle sat shame-faced in the public seating area as the judge berated their 19-year-old son for being stupid enough to take advantage of the situation in Manchester city centre on Tuesday.

A talented musician, he pleaded guilty to stealing a violin, telling police "he had always wanted to play".

Clearly appalled by this, Justice Berg responded: "You must know violins do not fall from the sky?"

Telling him to take his hands out of his pockets, the judge sentenced him to four months in a young offenders institution seemingly disregarding his previous good character record.

When the judge heard that Lee Mackeloney had gone into Manchester on the night of the riots "for a laugh" his voice became raised.

Describing the looter's behaviour as "utterly intolerable" he proclaimed "there was nothing amusing about stealing other people's property" and added "maybe one day you will become a victim - see if you have a laugh then".

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16048443

**AnnaEsse** Thu 11 Aug - 23:46

And from David Cameron:

PM Announces Measures To Tackle Disorder

7:20pm UK, Thursday August 11, 2011
The Prime Minister has urged the country to pull together while promising to protect and compensate people whose lives have been hit by violence.

David Cameron also announced a new crackdown allowing police to remove facemasks from rioters trying to avoid prosecution.

His comments came as MPs interrupted their summer break to debate the causes of the recent disorder and the police response.

The Prime Minister said the trouble after four nights of extensive violence had been "criminality pure and simple" and pledged to do "whatever it takes" to restore order.

He also told MPs:

:: Council tenants convicted of offences could face eviction.

:: Reinforced police numbers will remain on the streets of London this weekend.

:: Anyone convicted of rioting should go to jail.

:: The Government are looking at whether it is possible to stop people plotting disorder through social media websites.

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16047915

**Panda** Fri 12 Aug - 7:30

Clive Bloom, author of Violent London: 2,000 Years Of
Riots, Rebels And Revolts, told Sky News Online that for the capital unrest was
unfortunately, nothing new.

He said London today is much like it was three centuries ago and the
lawlessness of the city has always gone up and down.

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16046472

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16046472

Hooded youths walk past a looted Debenhams store in
Clapham

"The 18th century was essentially a lawless period. The underclass areas were
surrounded by very wealthy areas - pockets of wealth were surrounded by
poverty.

"So there were times when the areas of poverty wound spill over and there
would be days of rioting, just to let out the adrenaline."

He added: "When you ignore very poor people, they decided to take the law
into their own hands.

"The morality of property - the idea of the morality of property - they don't
understand that a pair of trainers has to be sold to you - they can't just take
it.

"And now they realise, no one's stopping them.

"The action is entirely criminal but the underlying social issues are not
criminal, and they need to be dealt with very carefully."

But Mr Bloom added that gang culture also played a big part in the wanton
criminality.

"The inward looking nature of those in the poverty areas has exploded onto
the streets. There's no political agenda in roaming the streets - it's just
thuggery.

"It's the spending of the underclass. They see some trainers they can't
afford, so they steal them. It's buying without money.

"Young people in these areas gain their social status from gang culture - not
from, like before, church or teachers.

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16046217

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16046217

A large fire breaks out in shops and residential
properties in Croydon

"It's gang culture spilling out onto the streets. They have built themselves
up outside the church and youth club networks.

"It's inward looking, rather than looking at the wider society... These are
kids who would probably not have gone to youth club - youth clubs represent
authority.

"The old fashioned youth club is gone... what's replaced it is social media,
Twitter.

"And that is distance relationships... You're having a relationship with
someone you don't know. You're someone who's like me, let's go get some
trainers."

Former professional footballer Mickey Ambrose is an ambassador for The
Prince's Trust and ran a football project on the Broadwater Farm estate in
Tottenham.

He told Sky News he felt the rioting was also, in large part, due to an
absence of parenting.

"There's excuses all the time being made I feel, you know, (like) our
children don't get opportunities, they're bored," he said.

"The question I want to ask parents right now is, where was your child on
Saturday night, Sunday night and last night?

"How can parents allow their children to be going out at 9-10 o'clock. We saw
pictures... of children aged 10, 11 involved in this anarchy."

He went on: "I think parents have a responsibility.

"I can tell you now, there was no way my mum would have let me out at 9-10
o'clock at (age) 13, 14 - so it begins at home.

"The schools and the education side of matters, are trying to educate out
children in this country. But these are 13, 14-year-old kids."

**AnnaEsse** Fri 12 Aug - 7:49

Richard Mannington Bowes, 68, who was set upon as he tried to stamp out a fire during riots in Ealing, west London, has died, Scotland Yard has confirmed.

Mr Bowes, of Haven Green, Ealing, suffered serious head injuries and was placed on a life-support machine following the attack, which took place at around 10.45pm on Monday as violence spread through the capital.

He died just before midnight last night, Scotland Yard said.

His next of kin have been informed and a post mortem examination will be held in due course, police added.

Detective Chief Inspector John McFarlane, of the Met's Homicide and Serious Crime Command, said: "This was a brutal incident that resulted in the senseless killing of an innocent man.

"I still need the assistance of the community who may have witnessed the attack on Richard, to come forward and provide information or images they may have recorded on mobile devices. This information could be crucial in catching his killer."

Police have issued two CCTV images of a man suspected of carrying out the assault and said he was actively engaged in the rioting and looting that devastated the area.

Detectives said the suspect was in the Ealing Broadway area from around 8pm onwards with a large group of people and appeared to be known to a considerable number of youths and young men who were also in the area.

He is described as black with a big build and was wearing a white t-shirt with writing on the front with a dark coloured jumper over his shoulders.

A witness, who gave his name as Jim and owns Big Jim's Trims in Ealing, said rioters attacked Mr Bowes when he tried to put out a fire they had started in a supermarket bin near the Arcadia shopping centre.

Jim, 40, who owns hairdressing shops on The Green and Devonshire Road, said: "I went up to Spring Bridge Road to check on my other shop and saw him on the ground.

"The rioters had set a bin alight and then they jumped on him when he tried to put it out."

Scotland Yard said officers were in the area dealing with violent disorder when they became aware of Mr Bowes being attacked.

They managed to reach him to administer first aid despite coming under fire from missiles, the Met added.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16048571

chrissie Fri 12 Aug - 10:12

Defence says it is the first time she has been in custody and she's found it "very unpleasant".
16 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
Judge refers her to the youth court for sentencing.
18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
She was in the area, saw the looting and decided to take part herself, the court heard.
18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
She pleads guilty to all three charges.
19 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
14 yr old girl charged with three counts of burglary on the High St in Wood Green: Boots / H&M and HMV.

======================================================

Defence says it is the first time she has been in custody and she's found it "very unpleasant"

I'm sure the innocent people who got caught up in the riots found it very unpleasant too!

**Panda** Fri 12 Aug - 10:19

chrissie wrote:
Defence says it is the first time she has been in custody and she's found it "very unpleasant".
16 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
Judge refers her to the youth court for sentencing.
18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
She was in the area, saw the looting and decided to take part herself, the court heard.
18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
She pleads guilty to all three charges.
19 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
14 yr old girl charged with three counts of burglary on the High St in Wood Green: Boots / H&M and HMV.

======================================================

Defence says it is the first time she has been in custody and she's found it "very unpleasant"

I'm sure the innocent people who got caught up in the riots found it very unpleasant too!

The latest irony is Iran"s leader is offering to give details on how they coped with rioting in Iran whch Britain comprehensively condemned, but regrets
he cannot advise on looting because none of the Iran protesters deliberately damaged and looted properties.

**Badboy** Fri 12 Aug - 11:17

a chef was also among those arrested.
Alot of those looters appeared to be educated to do well paid jobs

**AnnaEsse** Fri 12 Aug - 11:30

chrissie wrote:
Defence says it is the first time she has been in custody and she's found it "very unpleasant".
16 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
Judge refers her to the youth court for sentencing.
18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
She was in the area, saw the looting and decided to take part herself, the court heard.
18 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
She pleads guilty to all three charges.
19 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Lia Hervey
SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey
14 yr old girl charged with three counts of burglary on the High St in Wood Green: Boots / H&M and HMV.

======================================================

Defence says it is the first time she has been in custody and she's found it "very unpleasant"

I'm sure the innocent people who got caught up in the riots found it very unpleasant too!

She found it 'very unpleasant.' Well, tough sh*t! If she was so out of control as to join in and commit theft, and not just once, lock her up! She won't find that very pleasant either, but the victims of her crimes probably didn't find her actions very pleasant!

**kitti** Fri 12 Aug - 11:44

They interviewed three gang members this morning and I found what they said...utterly ridiculous .

'I stole nappies for my kid'. ...so other times where does he get the nappies or does the child go without, I'm quite sure he's signing on and the mother off the child is getting benefits and housing benefit and child benefit.....and if he spent less on weed, perhaps he does smoke it or drink then he wouldn't have to nick the nappies and powder..along with the 50inch plasma off course but that was the last thing on his mind when looting it was....'I must brake into boots and get the nappies etc and then go to comet and get the tv'....what utter bullshit!

chrissie Fri 12 Aug - 12:52

AdamMcCleanITV Adam McClean
by fieldproducer
Kieran Phillipson, 46, is committed for sentencing after handling a stolen TV. He is remanded in custody. He's taken away whimpering.
15 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Neal Mann
fieldproducer Neal Mann
RT @AdamMcCleanITV He pleads guilty to handling stolen goods. He's still crying.
11 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
»
Neal Mann
fieldproducer Neal Mann
RT @AdamMcCleanITV 46-year-old Kieran Phillipson from Salford is weeping in the dock. He's muttering "please don't send me to prison".
11 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

chrissie Fri 12 Aug - 13:06

I'm enjoying these tweets, not so brave now are they Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 294124

For anyone using twitter, I'm following @SkyNewsOlympic Lia Hervey

chrissie Fri 12 Aug - 13:10

Tears And Excuses At Court

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Tears And Excuses At Court

Sky News August 12, 2011 12:32 PM

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By Lia Hervey, Sky News producer, Westminster Magistrates Court

They noticed people looting and decided to join in, they thought the police would be too busy to catch them, they didn't actually commit the crime.

These are just some of the defences we've heard in the magistrates courts over the last few days as accused rioters face justice.

Over the last three days I have observed in a couple of magistrates courts as a long line of defendants answering the charges put to them after they were arrested by police.Burglary, violent disorder, theft, intent to steal and handling stolen goods are the most common charges.

The most serious charges can't be heard by a magistrates court so have been referred on for committal to crown court. Six months is normally the maximum sentence a magistrate can impose for any one offence.

The large majority of defendants that I have seen are under 23. Very few have family or friends in court. This could be due to the chaos that has ensued after such a large quantity of police arrests or it could be that there parents are too busy or don't care.

I've heard numerous cases of people who don't have home addresses. They are living in hostels, quite often with their co-defendants. There have been a number of youths who are in the care system.

However I have also seen employed people with families, a law student, an aspiring social worker. They have claimed moments of madness, opportunistic looting.

One woman even felt so guilty after looting she handed herself in. One man has claimed he was forced at gunpoint to drive looters to a shop.

What is clear is that the consequences are now becoming a lot more obvious to those arrested.

Very few have been given bail. Sentences seem to be more severe than normal and quite a few have complained that custody is "not very nice". I've seen tears, apologies and explanations of why they need bail.

What I am yet to see though are any apologies to the thousands of people affected in this disorder. The regret seems to have come from being caught and not for the harm they've caused.

**Panda** Fri 12 Aug - 17:06

I thought the Girl working for Curry"s who was caught robbing the Store had some nerve......oh the shame of it!!!!!

**Badboy** Fri 12 Aug - 20:29

AN OLYMPIC AMBASSADOR/ATHLETIC WAS AMONG DEFANDANTS.

**Panda** Sat 13 Aug - 3:23

'May Have' Misled Media Over Mark Duggan

102 Comments

7:41pm UK, Friday August 12, 2011

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has admitted it may have
mistakenly given "misleading" information to journalists in the wake of the Mark
Duggan shooting, it has emerged.

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16045341

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16045341

Mark Duggan was shot and killed by police in Tottenham

The body admitted that it may have inadvertently led media organisations to
believe that Mr Duggan, who was shot dead in Tottenham last Thursday, fired at
police first.

The 29-year-old was travelling in a minicab when police apparently stopped
the vehicle and the incident occurred.

Mr Duggan's death sparked riots in the centre of Tottenham over the weekend,
which spread to other areas of London and then cities across England earlier
this week.

Having reviewed the information the IPCC received and gave out...it seems
possible that we may have verbally led journalists to believe shots were
exchanged.

IPCC Statement

A statement from the IPCC said: "Analysis of media coverage and queries
raised on Twitter have alerted us to the possibility that we may have
inadvertently given misleading information to journalists when responding to
very early media queries following the shooting of Mark Duggan by MPS officers
on the evening of August 4.

"The IPCC's first statement, issued at 22.49 on August 4, makes no reference
to shots fired at police and our subsequent statements have set out the sequence
of events based on the emerging evidence.

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16045160

Riots
And The Aftermath

After violence spread across the country, Sky
News tells the story in pictures and video

"However, having reviewed the information the IPCC received and gave out
during the very early hours of the unfolding incident, before any documentation
had been received, it seems possible that we may have verbally led journalists
to believe that shots were exchanged as this was consistent with early
information we received that an officer had been shot and taken to hospital.

"Any reference to an exchange of shots was not correct and did not feature in
any of our formal statements, although an officer was taken to hospital after
the incident."

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16045083

Riots in Tottenham now - Page 7 16045083

Rioters set a double decker bus on fire in Tottenham

Much of the early media coverage into Mr Duggan's death referred to shots
being exchanged, while some outlets implied the police had been shot at
first.

But ballistic tests later found that a bullet which lodged itself in one
officer's radio was police issue.

The IPCC said earlier this week that Mr Duggan had been carrying a loaded
gun, but it had no evidence the weapon had been fired. It said tests were
continuing.

An inquest into Mr Duggan's death, which opened at North London Coroner's
Court in High Barnet on Tuesday, heard the father of four died from a single
gunshot wound to the chest.

**Panda** Sat 13 Aug - 8:17

Just announced on the News, David Cameron has contacted an American Policeman to advise on tactics regarding the recent problems around Britain.
He is coming to Britain,not to tell our Police what to do, but to offer advice, he is credited with resolving riots in some major Cities in the U.S.A.

the Council in Wandsworth are going to evict a Family from a Council House, whose Son was involved in the damage and looting but this is a test case
and remains to be seen whether it can be implemented, where would the Family live, in another Council House.?

**Badboy** Sat 13 Aug - 11:47

SKY NEWS TO HAVE A SPECIAL EDITION OF NEWS ABOUT RIOTS AT 2.30 PM,ALSO SHOWED PICTURES I HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE OF LOOTING/RIOTING INCLUDING CCTV FOOTAGE OF A SHOP BEING CLEANED OUT

**Panda** Sat 13 Aug - 12:01

Badboy wrote:SKY NEWS TO HAVE A SPECIAL EDITION OF NEWS ABOUT RIOTS AT 2.30 PM,ALSO SHOWED PICTURES I HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE OF LOOTING/RIOTING INCLUDING CCTV FOOTAGE OF A SHOP BEING CLEANED OUT

Morning Badboy, already we have the dogooders, suggesting that because Magistrates are working all over the week-end to deal with the Mountain of arrests, perhaps will quicken the pace and maybe some of those arrested will not be judged fairly. Also, Wandsworth"s application to get the family evicted because their 18 yr old son committed a crime, unless the Family are already known to be bad Tenants , will be turned down and the Parents
told to show their Son the door.!!

**AnnaEsse** Sat 13 Aug - 12:16

Panda wrote:
Badboy wrote:SKY NEWS TO HAVE A SPECIAL EDITION OF NEWS ABOUT RIOTS AT 2.30 PM,ALSO SHOWED PICTURES I HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE OF LOOTING/RIOTING INCLUDING CCTV FOOTAGE OF A SHOP BEING CLEANED OUT

Morning Badboy, already we have the dogooders, suggesting that because Magistrates are working all over the week-end to deal with the Mountain of arrests, perhaps will quicken the pace and maybe some of those arrested will not be judged fairly. Also, Wandsworth"s application to get the family evicted because their 18 yr old son committed a crime, unless the Family are already known to be bad Tenants , will be turned down and the Parents
told to show their Son the door.!!

Since the son is 18 years old, the local authority has no responsibility to house him should he become homeless. He would be able to apply for a tenancy in his own right, but he would probably not be offered one as his actions would have made him intentionally homeless, but since he is 18 anyway, he doesn't fall into one of the categories for Priority Need. He would join the waiting list, where single homeless people are way down the queue. If he gets sent to prison, that's another matter as those leaving prison have priority need under the 1996 Homelessness legislation.

**Angelique** Sun 14 Aug - 2:49

The Law is an Ass - it seems to encourage lawlessness!

**Panda** Mon 15 Aug - 6:48

I"m half watching Sky News and the report that Ed Miliband is accepting the Government is not a role Model for the population, Cameron tending to blame the Police.

I don"t know where this interview was filmed but 4 young men were being interviewed. They all had valid opinions about what caused the rioting and
the way it was handled. One said the standard of Education in Britain was so low that many school leavers will not find jobs. As a Recruitment Manager
he said many applicants for jobs cannot even fill in the Application Form. Another said boredom plays a part, since all the Youth Clubs and Boxing
Clubs no longer exist there is nowhere for youngsters to go and this is why gangs on the street have formed. Another said it was the breakdown of
Marriages resulting in no discipline in the home by a Father figure. Another said the Police did nothing to stop the looting during the riot, just walked
forward in their riot gear .

**Badboy** Mon 15 Aug - 11:35

A WORKER AT A SCHOOL FOR CHILDREN WITH SEVERE LEARNING DISABILITIES HAS APPEARED IN COURT.
I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF A POLITICAN APPEARED IN CONNECTION WITH LOOTING WHEN YOU LOOKING AT THE NUMBER OF PROFESSIONS APPEARING IN COURT.

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Riots in Tottenham now