Riots in Tottenham now

sent to me by a friend in UK...........a few of these little fellows should keep the rioters at bay


http://www.newsloco.com/2011/07/chimpanzee-shoot-with-ak-47-machinegun.html

Panda wrote:I"m half watching Sky News and the report that Ed Miliband is accepting the Government is not a role Model for the population, Cameron tending to blame the Police.

I don"t know where this interview was filmed but 4 young men were being interviewed. They all had valid opinions about what caused the rioting and
the way it was handled. One said the standard of Education in Britain was so low that many school leavers will not find jobs. As a Recruitment Manager
he said many applicants for jobs cannot even fill in the Application Form. Another said boredom plays a part, since all the Youth Clubs and Boxing
Clubs no longer exist there is nowhere for youngsters to go and this is why gangs on the street have formed. Another said it was the breakdown of
Marriages resulting in no discipline in the home by a Father figure. Another said the Police did nothing to stop the looting during the riot, just walked
forward in their riot gear .

I think I saw this film of these four on the shore by the Thames I think. To be truly honest if I was intending to employ workers these four wouldn't make the interview stage. All they seemed to think was they had a CV and therefore they had a right to a job but had been rejected - and this explained why they felt they had a right to riot/loot.

Angelique wrote:

Panda wrote:I"m half watching Sky News and the report that Ed Miliband is accepting the Government is not a role Model for the population, Cameron tending to blame the Police.

I don"t know where this interview was filmed but 4 young men were being interviewed. They all had valid opinions about what caused the rioting and
the way it was handled. One said the standard of Education in Britain was so low that many school leavers will not find jobs. As a Recruitment Manager
he said many applicants for jobs cannot even fill in the Application Form. Another said boredom plays a part, since all the Youth Clubs and Boxing
Clubs no longer exist there is nowhere for youngsters to go and this is why gangs on the street have formed. Another said it was the breakdown of
Marriages resulting in no discipline in the home by a Father figure. Another said the Police did nothing to stop the looting during the riot, just walked
forward in their riot gear .

I think I saw this film of these four on the shore by the Thames I think. To be truly honest if I was intending to employ workers these four wouldn't make the interview stage. All they seemed to think was they had a CV and therefore they had a right to a job but had been rejected - and this explained why they felt they had a right to riot/loot.

Angelique, they all had jobs.......as I said, one was a Recruitment Manager and was the one who observed that many applicants could not fill in the Application Form. At the last count Britain was placed 18th in Europe for the standard of education , even Estonia is ahead of us.

Two youths who used facebook to incite a riot which never materialised because only one person turned up have been jailed for 4 years and a girl who
accepted a pair of Shorts from her Flatmate knowing them to be looted is jail for 5 months.

And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came down these idiots .

halfamo wrote:And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came down these idiots .

I think four years is a bit excessive for those two young men who were found guilty, who actually pleaded guilty, of inciting rioting.

AnnaEsse wrote:

halfamo wrote:And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came down these idiots .

I think four years is a bit excessive for those two young men who were found guilty, who actually pleaded guilty, of inciting rioting.

It possibly is but courts are being a little inconsistent there does'nt seem any guidelines , i think maybe some courts are bowing to political pressure.

halfamo wrote:

AnnaEsse wrote:

halfamo wrote:And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came down these idiots .

I think four years is a bit excessive for those two young men who were found guilty, who actually pleaded guilty, of inciting rioting.

It possibly is but courts are being a little inconsistent there does'nt seem any guidelines , i think maybe some courts are bowing to political pressure.

There was a discussion on Radio 4 about this this morning. Apparently there are guidelines, but 'they're not tramlines,' and judges can depart from those guidelines, especially with unusual offences.

halfamo wrote:And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came down these
idiots .

Actually halfamo they are excessive, I would make them do community work for a long period and make sure they do!!!!!!! also, on the young men, an ASBO with an Order to be in by 10pm and have that anklet on to track them at any time.

Panda wrote:

halfamo wrote:And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came downes these
idiots .

Actually halfamo they are excessive, I would make them do community work for a long period and make sure they do!!!!!!! also, on the yoSng men, an ASBO with an Order to be in by 10pm and have that anklet on to track them at any time.

I think its a hard one to call panda 4yrs for inciting to riot its a serious charge and community work does’nt always teach a lesson nor do asbo .I think the courts are making an example of a lot of these kids and also bending not just to political pressure but public pressure too, its hard to know really which way to go .They need to understand burning and looting and inciting others to do the same is’nt on only time will tell if tough justice is the answer but a slap on the wrist is’nt the answer either.

halfamo wrote:

Panda wrote:

halfamo wrote:And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came downes these
idiots .

Actually halfamo they are excessive, I would make them do community work for a long period and make sure they do!!!!!!! also, on the yoSng men, an ASBO with an Order to be in by 10pm and have that anklet on to track them at any time.

I think its a hard one to call panda 4yrs for inciting to riot its a serious charge and community work does’nt always teach a lesson nor do asbo .I think the courts are making an example of a lot of these kids and also bending not just to political pressure but public pressure too, its hard to know really which way to go .They need to understand burning and looting and inciting others to do the same is’nt on only time will tell if tough justice is the answer but a slap on the wrist is’nt the answer either.

Yes, I agree, but 4 years in Prison will harden these young men and what will they learn? Their character will change a lot because of mixing with
hardened criminals....... I think 1 yr Prison and 1Years community work monitored by a Parole Officer might have taught them a lesson.

Panda wrote:

halfamo wrote:

Panda wrote:

halfamo wrote:And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came downes these
idiots .

Actually halfamo they are excessive, I would make them do community work for a long period and make sure they do!!!!!!! also, on the yoSng men, an ASBO with an Order to be in by 10pm and have that anklet on to track them at any time.

I think its a hard one to call panda 4yrs for inciting to riot its a serious charge and community work does’nt always teach a lesson nor do asbo .I think the courts are making an example of a lot of these kids and also bending not just to political pressure but public pressure too, its hard to know really which way to go .They need to understand burning and looting and inciting others to do the same is’nt on only time will tell if tough justice is the answer but a slap on the wrist is’nt the answer either.

Yes, I agree, but 4 years in Prison will harden these young men and what will they learn? Their character will change a lot because of mixing with
hardened criminals....... I think 1 yr Prison and 1Years community work monitored by a Parole Officer might have taught them a lesson.

They have all been so stupid. Any prison sentence at all is seriously going to screw up their lives...they have no idea.

Angelina wrote:

Panda wrote:

halfamo wrote:

Panda wrote:

halfamo wrote:And the human rights brigade are already complaining about too stiff sentencing i give up , its about time the courts came downes these
idiots .

Actually halfamo they are excessive, I would make them do community work for a long period and make sure they do!!!!!!! also, on the yoSng men, an ASBO with an Order to be in by 10pm and have that anklet on to track them at any time.

I think its a hard one to call panda 4yrs for inciting to riot its a serious charge and community work does’nt always teach a lesson nor do asbo .I think the courts are making an example of a lot of these kids and also bending not just to political pressure but public pressure too, its hard to know really which way to go .They need to understand burning and looting and inciting others to do the same is’nt on only time will tell if tough justice is the answer but a slap on the wrist is’nt the answer either.

Yes, I agree, but 4 years in Prison will harden these young men and what will they learn? Their character will change a lot because of mixing with
hardened criminals....... I think 1 yr Prison and 1Years community work monitored by a Parole Officer might have taught them a lesson.

They have all been so stupid. Any prison sentence at all is seriously going to screw up their lives...they have no idea.

Hi Angelina,

They are going to appeal so maybe the sentence will be reduced. On the News just now it was pointed out that facebook was primarily inadvertantly
responsible for much of the rioting because the rioters and looters knew where the hotspots were and youngsters knew where to go. I expect you have seen this, this Guy was trying to manouvre his way through the rioters on his motorbike and going slowly when a Yobbo caught hold of his backpack,
yanked him off his bike, dragged him along on his back while one of his mates made off with the Bike.......now that gang should be jailed.!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-14511632

Two arrested over Warwickshire website posts

A 21-year-old man and a boy of 14 have been arrested accused of encouraging disorder through postings on social networking sites.

Warwickshire Police said the man, from Rugby, was arrested earlier on suspicion of encouraging or assisting offences. He remains in custody.

The 14-year-old, from Leamington Spa, was arrested on suspicion of the same offence and has been bailed.

Police have pledged to continue monitoring social networking sites.

For anyone who is interested, there is a Crimewatch Special on BBC1 at 8pm tonight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/crimewatch/

Thanks chrissie, off topic but interesting, there is a Documentary tonight on Channel 4 at 10pm about Jaycee Dugard the girl who was abducted and held captive for 18 years who the McCanns are fond of using as an example that Madeleiene could be found. Trouble is Jaycee was 11 yrs old at the time and escaped from her Captor and would have had memories of her Family.

Thanks Panda, I shall watch that too.

Panda wrote:Thanks chrissie, off topic but interesting, there is a Documentary tonight on Channel 4 at 10pm about Jaycee Dugard the girl who was abducted and held captive for 18 years who the McCanns are fond of using as an example that Madeleiene could be found. Trouble is Jaycee was 11 yrs old at the time and escaped from her Captor and would have had memories of her Family.

She was also out in the open air and not (allegedly) tucked up in bed.

IN GUARDIAN IT WAS SAYING GILLINGHAM,READING,OXFORD,WOLVERHAMPTON ETC WERE HIT BY RIOTING.
NEVER HEARD OF THOSE.

Sorry folks i'm a believer in tough justice , the problem is some of these on the streets were not first offenders they were already known to police so a slap on the wrist did'nt work first time round.As for prison hardening them its a risk but what would happen if this happened again , would those complaining about tough justice be able to justify why they thought these people should'nt be punished hard. I admit if you compare 4yrs for inciting to 2yrs for being involved with the murder of baby Peter Connelly i suppose it is harsh but the law is never consistent.I will go further and say IMO they should bring back the borstal idea i knew someone many years past who ended up in one it brought him to his senses.

halfamo wrote:Sorry folks i'm a believer in tough justice , the problem is some of these on the streets were not first offenders they were already known to police so a slap on the wrist did'nt work first time round.As for prison hardening them its a risk but what would happen if this happened again , would those complaining about tough justice be able to justify why they thought these people should'nt be punished hard. I admit if you compare 4yrs for inciting to 2yrs for being involved with the murder of baby Peter Connelly i suppose it is harsh but the law is never consistent.I will go further and say IMO they should bring back the borstal idea i knew someone many years past who ended up in one it brought him to his senses.

SO BORSTAL NO LONGER EXIST

Badboy wrote:

halfamo wrote:Sorry folks i'm a believer in tough justice , the problem is some of these on the streets were not first offenders they were already known to police so a slap on the wrist did'nt work first time round.As for prison hardening them its a risk but what would happen if this happened again , would those complaining about tough justice be able to justify why they thought these people should'nt be punished hard. I admit if you compare 4yrs for inciting to 2yrs for being involved with the murder of baby Peter Connelly i suppose it is harsh but the law is never consistent.I will go further and say IMO they should bring back the borstal idea i knew someone many years past who ended up in one it brought him to his senses.

SO BORSTAL NO LONGER EXIST

Don't think so Badboy i think they have these special school type places for difficult kids but nowhere near the sort of regimes that existed in Borstals.A lot of this has been caused IMO because of this "without authority "quideline or law from the EU, schools can't discipline neither can parents and this is why kids are running riot .When we were at school if we were punished our parents backed up the teachers ,and if we caused problems outside school hrs we were in double trouble for bringing disgrace to our school and were punished again.

halfamo wrote:

Badboy wrote:

halfamo wrote:Sorry folks i'm a believer in tough justice , the problem is some of these on the streets were not first offenders they were already known to police so a slap on the wrist did'nt work first time round.As for prison hardening them its a risk but what would happen if this happened again , would those complaining about tough justice be able to justify why they thought these people should'nt be punished hard. I admit if you compare 4yrs for inciting to 2yrs for being involved with the murder of baby Peter Connelly i suppose it is harsh but the law is never consistent.I will go further and say IMO they should bring back the borstal idea i knew someone many years past who ended up in one it brought him to his senses.

SO BORSTAL NO LONGER EXIST

Don't think so Badboy i think they have these special school type places for difficult kids but nowhere near the sort of regimes that existed in Borstals.A lot of this has been caused IMO because of this "without authority "quideline or law from the EU, schools can't discipline neither can parents and this is why kids are running riot .When we were at school if we were punished our parents backed up the teachers ,and if we caused problems outside school hrs we were in double trouble for bringing disgrace to our school and were punished again.

It's Secure Units now and those units can refuse to take young people who present serious problems with violence. I worked at a childrens' home about 12 years ago, where a message was received by one of the young people, on a mobile phone, that a particular young girl was on her way there in a taxi. That resulted in all of the residents going outside and refusing to come back in because that young girl had seriously assaulted some of them. The taxi was diverted to another home nearby, which was obliged to take the girl. She had a secure order on her, but no Secure Unit in the country would have her because she had held an officer at knife-point.

Schools are being discouraged from excluding pupils. So, it can take many months of painstaking notes of a pupil's unacceptable behaviour before the school can even suspend a pupil temporarily. In my county, the Pupil Referral Units are being closed down, which means that pupils excluded from one school will have to be accommodated at any alternative school which will have them because children have the right to an education.

Woman Jailed For Accepting Loot Is Freed

*
*
*

A woman jailed for accepting a pair of shorts stolen during the Manchester riots has been freed from prison after appealing her sentence.

Ursula Nevin

Ms Nevin was asleep at the time of the rioting

Magistrates jailed Ursula Nevin, 24, for five months last week after she pleaded guilty to handling stolen goods.

The Recorder of Manchester, Judge Andrew Gilbart QC, ruled today that the decision was "wrong in principle" as she had played no part in the disturbance.

She had been asleep at the time of the riots but was given the clothing by her lodger, Gemma Corbett, who stole goods from the Vans store and took them back to their house in Stretford.

Corbett pleaded guilty at Manchester Magistrates' Court last week to burglary.

Prince Harry meeting firemen

Prince Harry visited Manchester's firemen who worked during the riots

Judge Gilbart said: "Ursula Nevin did not go into Manchester city centre.

"We regard it as wrong in principle that she was subject to a custodial sentence. She must pay some sentence because she knew where the goods had come from."

Ms Nevin has been ordered to instead perform 75 hours of unpaid work for the community.

The mother-of-two is thought to be the first person to have successfully appealed against a sentence handed down after the violence across England.

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16053166


Well that appeal makes sense to me, 5 months for receiving a pair of stolen shorts! What she did was knowingly wrong but community service is far more appropriate.

• 
  
• 
  
• 
  

11:00pm UK, Saturday August 20, 2011

Peter Spencer, political correspondent

Former Prime Minister Tony Blair has weighed into the debate over this
summer's rioting, accusing David Cameron, Ed Miliband and his successor as
Labour Prime Minister Gordon Brown of not properly understanding and addressing
the underlying causes.




Mr Blair launched a thinly-veiled attack on David
Cameron



Writing in the Observer, he says suggestions that what happened shows Britain
is in moral decline are nonsense.

"The big cause is the group of alienated, disaffected youth who are outside
the social mainstream and who live in a culture at odds with any canons of
proper behaviour," he claims.

"The truth is that many of these people are from families that are profoundly
dysfunctional, operating on completely different terms from the rest of society,
either middle class or poor.

"This is a phenomenon of the late twentieth century. You find it in virtually
every developed nation."

We are in danger of the wrong analysis leading to the wrong diagnosis,
leading to the wrong prescription.

Tony Blair




For which reason, he adds, suggesting that Britain has lost its way morally
will depress people unnecessarily, trash our reputation abroad, and fail to deal
with the problem in the only way that works.

And, in a thinly veiled attack on David Cameron's critique, he says: "We are
in danger of the wrong analysis leading to the wrong diagnosis, leading to the
wrong prescription."

But he also says the left places too much emphasis on social deprivation as
the prime cause of the rioting.

The correct response, Mr Blair contends, is to intervene family by family,
and to reform criminal justice around antisocial behaviour, organised crime,
persistent offenders and gangs.

This formula has much in common with the approach now advocated by the Work
and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith.



Mr Blair's approach has much in common that of Iain Duncan
Smith



Mr Blair says the Labour government was working on it towards the end of his
time in office.

But, in a dig at Gordon Brown, he maintains that after he left the agenda
lost momentum.

He also admits that after the murder of two-year-old Jamie Bulger in 1993, he
had made a similar case to that being advanced by many today about moral
breakdown in Britain.

But that speech, he says, was "good politics but bad policy".

And, in an apparent endorsement of David Cameron's political response to the
riots, a Comres poll for the Independent on Sunday and Sunday Mirror puts
support for the Tories at its highest level for almost a year.

At 38 per cent, it is up two points, and just two per cent behind Labour.

But the same survey gives the idea of the former American supercop Bill
Bratton taking over the Metropolitan Police the thumbs down from voters, by a
majority of more than two to one.


Tony Blair"s got a b***dy nerve!!!!